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sid_guardian2023-09-13 01:14 pm
china_shop) wrote in sid_guardian2023-09-13 01:14 pm
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GUARDIAN REWATCH – Episode 35
Beginning of episode: On a YOHE clifftop, Zhao Yunlan gives the Envoy his name.
Ending of episode: Back in Dragon City, Zhao Yunlan tells Shen Wei he's not just a knife, and "Professor Lin" arrives at the DoS security check to confiscate Guo Changcheng's baton.
Important scenes/developments:
- Zhao Yunlan fixes Shen Wei's name and asks about his past and his brother.
- Ye Zun brings the Hallows to the Rebel Leader and gets kicked in the chest, mind-controlled and abused until his power manifests and he commits involuntarily cannibalism; he becomes the new Rebel Leader.
- Shen Wei and Zhao Yunlan talk in the moonlight some more; Da Qing runs up to say the Rebels have declared war.
- Clash #1: Shen Wei and Zhao Yunlan reclaim the Hallows, and Zhao Yunlan shoots a bunch of guys.
- For the first time in months, Zhao Yunlan fails to activate the Hallows (but at least he doesn't have visions, collapse or go blind).
- Da Qing chooses Zhao Yunlan as his master, and Zhao Yunlan fastens the bells around Da Qing's neck.
- Clash #2: Ye Zun & co attack, Ye Zun's mask comes off, and the brothers reunite... until Ye Zun knocks everyone down.
- The Hallows' wormhole swallows Zhao Yunlan, and he meets present-day Shen Wei inside.
- From there, they watch as:
- Ye Zun falls into the energy seal, and Shen Wei follows after
- the Treaty is signed and the Allied Forces disbanded
- Da Qing leaves in search of his memories
- 10k years later, the Regent sends Ding Dun to Haixing to investigate the energy seal and look for the Hallows
- Ding Dun's mission finds the newly waking Envoy
- the Regent and Shen Wei agree on their roles
- Shen Wei talks to pillar!Ye Zun, then returns to Haixing and catches some petty Dixingren crooks.
- Shen Wei and Zhao Yunlan leave the wormhole and land in the SID lab, where Da Qing is waiting.
- Da Qing says Dixing has declared war on Haixing; cue flashback to Ye Zun impersonating the Envoy and burning the treaty.
- At the DoS security check, Changcheng gets stopped because of his baton, and the guard sends for Professor Lin.
- In the street, Zhao Yunlan tells Shen Wei that he's not a knife, and says the big problem for the moment is humans.
- Lin Jing comes to the DoS security check and takes Changcheng's baton.
Thoughts
- Zhao Yunlan gives Shen Wei his name. Ot1h, this has always struck me as incredibly presumptuous; otoh, does it still count as presumptuous when (as far as Zhao Yunlan is concerned) it's already Shen Wei's name, and Zhao Yunlan knows how important it is to him? Ot3h, I mean, Zhao Yunlan and presumption go hand in hand, so... *g*
Anyway, Zhao Yunlan extemporises (off the top of his head?) about Shen Wei's name, turning it into a call to duty just in case Shen Wei was in any danger of losing sight of his priorities: "In this world, water and mountains are connected. Towering mountains extend endlessly, just like the burdens on our shoulders, but we have to keep walking till the end."
Then he asks about Shen Wei's backstory, and while Shen Wei talks openly, Zhao Yunlan listens. He isn't figuring out how to slyly ask for compensation or being a cute ratbag; his attention is absolute. Partly, this is because he's matured and now understands his own importance, so he doesn't have to joke for attention or put up defences anymore; partly I think it's because he's been denied these confidences for so long, and he wants them so badly. To hear about Shen Wei's past. To be a shoulder for Shen Wei to unburden himself onto. It was worth travelling 10k years just for this! - I think that, at the time Kunlun showed up, YOHE!Shen Wei was having a crisis, not of confidence or self-worth, but of hope. For whatever reason, Ma Gui and Fu You haven't told him about the message from the future saying they'll win the war, and he's lost so many men, and things just seem... really bleak. And as a leader, he's responsible for the losses, large and small. Can they win? Is it worth sending yet more of his men to die? Should he try to do it all alone?
But then Kunlun arrives, and he is a total revelation. He talks confidently about the future, about a long life after the war. He listens seriously and believes in Shen Wei. His encouragement strengthens Shen Wei's resolve when he needs it most, and a lot of that influence is to keep fighting, keep on with the sacrifice. Shen Wei starts to say, "If I had a choice..." and Zhao Yunlan cuts him off and tells him he'd still be a leader. "Even if it is not what you want, you would still fight with the bad because of your conscience and for the sake of everyone."
(He tempers that a little with his "You're not just a knife" line later this episode, but that's 10k years later, from Shen Wei's pov!) - Zhao Yunlan asks about Shen Wei's brother, and we get some of Ye Zun's side of the story. A few things about this:
- I think this partly parallels the start of the previous episode, with Chu Shuzhi telling the truth about him and Nianzhi. With the Chu brothers, we got multiple confusing versions, all mixed up, and then the real one, which was about the older brother feeling that he'd failed the younger; the younger seeming to die (but actually being preserved in an object?); misplaced vengeance, and a hundred years of punishment/torment. Here, we only start to see the shape of Shen Wei and Ye Zun's story, and we know not to entirely trust it (because this show! ♥), but I think it's safe to guess that some of those elements are going to be present.
- There's a dramatic contrast between the Rebels and the Allied Forces. The Rebels are assembled outside, with no apparent infrastructure; their Leader is a thug and a bully, ruling with an iron and mind-controlling fist. Meanwhile, the Allied Forces are led by a lord and a lady who don't seem to be fighters so much as strategists; they have at least one general, a council chamber, and magical healing ointment. Ma Gui tries to develop a technological breakthrough that can help them win the war. Given how little the Rebels seem to have, it's not surprising they're not interested in peace...
- What was Ye Zun's situation, growing up among the Rebels? (There's some discussion about this in the comments on extrapenguin's excellent scene post.) He's mind controlled like the other soldiers, but also verbally and physically abused and lied to. He's despised for his illness/weakness/lack of power. He believes he has nowhere else to go, and he's disturbingly flinchy. He dresses more like the Allied Forces than like the Rebels. And he's been working his way up from whipping boy, using his wits to try and help the Rebel Leader, eg, by suggesting and carrying out the Hallows heist. (Has anyone written the Hallows heist?!) But the Rebel Leader doesn't trust him and isn't willing to grant him any status.
- Ye Zun's power activates, and it's clearly involuntary and terrifying.
It's also his first taste of any kind of power. - When the Rebels acknowledge him, they hold out a new, golden mask. Maybe one of them has an on-the-spot appropriate-mask-creating power?
- Back to the tranquil moonlight chat between Shen Wei and Zhao Yunlan, in particular Shen Wei comparing his view of the world with and without his mask (very symbolic) and Zhao Yunlan being so charmed. And then Shen Wei breaks Zhao Yunlan's heart by thanking him for being interested. It seems very IC to me that Shen Wei doesn't blame others for keeping their distance; it's just the way things are.
Zhao Yunlan says, "If one day, I leave without saying goodbye, please don't blame me. You only need to know that we will meet again." (I wonder if he's partly talking to future Shen Wei there too, promising him (and himself) that they'll be reunited?) - Da Qing runs up. "The Rebel Leader sent a declaration of war." (Confusing, because it seemed like they were already at war, right?) "I heard they brought the Hallows, too."
Shen Wei says he'll bring the Hallows back. Zhao Yunlan clasps his shoulder. "You are not fighting alone." (And he can back this up with his weapon, which gives their side a new edge; it's the YOHE equivalent of his bomb-defusing skills in the hospital.) He's telling, not asking here -- claiming a place at Shen Wei's side, and trying to send Da Qing to safety, too. (He calls himself Da Qing's master, so I guess he has connected those dots; of course, Da Qing objects.) - In the clash that follows, Zhao Yunlan uses his gun ruthlessly and unhesitatingly. And he and Shen Wei work together seamlessly -- Shen Wei throws Zhao Yunlan the box of Hallows without even calling his name first, freeing himself to fight Ye Zun. <3 <3 <3 But having retrieved the Hallows, they retreat.
The Hallows won't activate. Zhao Yunlan even picks up the Awl without having visions! He says, "My mission is complete. It's time to go back now," and omg Shen Wei's faaaace, but it's Da Qing who runs up, protesting, "No! You just came! Why are you leaving now?" (undeadrobins made a great post on this scene.) 
I wanted this to be where Zhao Yunlan realised he was Da Qing's master, but he has been claiming that all along; I guess it's where Da Qing claims him back, though, and where Zhao Yunlan realises the significance of the bells. - Second clash. Shen Wei slices Ye Zun's mask and it falls off. Ye Zun emotionally manipulates. Zhao Yunlan finally learns that Ye Zun is Shen Wei's didi.
And here, in YOHE, with Shen Wei not weakened by light energy, and with Zhao Yunlan at his most shooty, even working together they still can't defeat Ye Zun. He knocks them all over with relative ease. But the Hallows intervene, dragging Zhao Yunlan into their wormhole.
His parting words to Shen Wei are echoes of Zhang Shi/Zhao Xinci: "No matter what decision you make, never regret doing it." - Zhao Yunlan arrives back in the wormhole. We get Shen Wei's amazing line: It took me 10,000 years to find you. (After he says it, he's breathing hard -- so many emotions!) And Zhao Yunlan can't answer that, can't only laugh out his own feels.
I love how Zhao Yunlan's having met and mentored the younger Shen Wei doesn't alter their present-day dynamic: modern Shen Wei is still ancient, authoritative and a scientist, and Zhao Yunlan slots into place as his partner who defers to Shen Wei's judgement, knowledge of wormholes, etc -- while still angling for what he wants, because he's still Zhao Yunlan. *g*
Shen Wei says, "The magic of the timeline is that from a macro perspective, no matter how long you stay at this node as long as you return to the start, not much time will have passed." Which gives us lots of leeway for YOHE fic. ;-)
Zhao Yunlan says he wants to see the ending, and I feel like either Shen Wei doesn't, or he doesn't want Zhao Yunlan to see it? But he doesn't argue. - trobadora's already made an awesome post on Ye Zun and Shen Wei falling into the abyss. In short, Shen Wei once more fails to save his brother -- this time losing him to the Hallows. (I think there's a potential AU here where Shen Wei decides the Hallows are problematic, and he goes into engineering instead of biology to figure out how to destroy them, and research other ways of bringing resources to Dixing. ;-p)
Shen Wei following Ye Zun into the energy seal seems a lot like his following Zhao Yunlan into the wormhole last episode: throwing caution to the wind for the people he cares about most, who he wants to keep and protect. - Then we get the Treaty and the Allied Forces disbanding. Fu You says, "Goodbye, Dixingren," to the other treaty signatory like she didn't bother to ask his name, hee. (Or is it plural? 再见了地星人)
And like every other "good guy" character else in the show, she puts leadership ahead of personal things -- and she makes Ma Gui do the same. - Da Qing doesn't remember anything, and apparently everyone is refusing to fill him in (???), so he's off on his own.
- Fast forward. In the wormhole, Shen Wei says, "Dragon City was built upon the crater caused by the meteorite." Which is why the troubles start and end in the city. We see the pre-awakened-Envoy palace, with the Regent being pro-Envoy and telling the Deacon off for speaking out against him. We see Ding Dun and co find the Envoy. The Envoy and the Regent amicably agreeing on their roles. (The Regent, faced with this wide-eyed, young-seeming ancient legend who outranks him but knows nothing about the current political climate, is understandably I think none too thrilled, but he hides it well.) Shen Wei decides to go keep the peace in Haixing and look for the Hallows, but first he talks to Ye Zun in the pillar and discovers his brother hasn't repented. It's not 100% clear to me what he thinks Ye Zun's crime is -- continuing the warmongering after he took power, I guess? Also, I wonder how long Ye Zun has been awake at this point. /o\ And then we get a delightful glimpse of an Envoy-in-Haixing-fighting-crime procedural, which I would have LOVED to see more of, especially if it featured pre-embittered Zhao Xinci. (trobadora covered all of this in her epic scene post, so I'm skating over it.)
- Finally, it's time to leave the portal. Zhao Yunlan name-checks Wang Zheng and Sang Zan as part of his motivation, aww, and he and Shen Wei fall into the SID lab, where Da Qing has been sleeping. The three of them help each other up: reunion!!! Zhao Yunlan checks his phone (a perfectly reasonable first move after being offline for who even knows how long) and discovers two days have passed.
- Da Qing says Dixing has declared war on Haixing, and the Envoy is rumoured to be behind it. Flashback to Ye Zun stirring up a crowd, with An Bai and the Regent watching. (This takes place in the palace, but it's a weird angle and it took me a moment to be sure.) The bartender vouches for the fake!Envoy, despite his uncharacteristic behaviour. Sigh! I like the bartender, but he's not the smartest cookie.
Ye Zun says, "I am honored that the Dijun and Regent handed me the commanding power at this critical time. After pondering over [Dixing's situation], I am here to announce that... this shameless treaty is invalid now." And he sets it alight.
The onlookers actually sound alarmed and not particularly militant until Ye Zun eggs them on and one of them starts up a chant: "Rule Haixing!" The others quickly join in. (I wonder what they think this invasion will entail, and also how many of them have weaponisable powers.) - Poor Shen Wei. Ye Zun is using the Envoy's reputation as a powerful chess piece. This is really upsetting (and enraging?)!
- At the DoS security check, Guo Ying schools Changcheng in discretion:
GY: Changcheng, the Inspectorate is not like the outside world. Once you're inside, be very careful about what you say or do.
GCC: Uncle, my colleagues—
GY: Hush. I care about them, too. I also sympathize with them. But now is not the time.
Aww! The security people find something suspicious in Changcheng's bag, and they call "Professor Lin". - In the street, Shen Wei and Zhao Yunlan walk and talk (with very little urgency for wanted men).
SW: I have no allies in Dixing. The Regent and Dijun are on Ye Zun's side now.
me: And the Regent was pretty unreliable to start with!
SW: (cont.) In Dixing now, no one can rightfully discern the real Black Cloaked Envoy anymore. To my knowledge, with Ye Zun's current power, it's impossible for him to bewitch the whole of Dixing, so he dresses up like me and causes chaos.
ZYL: Enough. Remember, you are a person, not a knife.
SW: But he's now provoking dissension under my name. It's my fault. I should have been ruthless at that time [10k years ago?].
ZYL: It's not you who was lenient, it was Heaven. But I also believe that man will triumph over Heaven. People like Ye Zun will never understand the point of our sacrifices and persistence.
SW: (apparently this is what he needed to hear, because some of the tension leaves him) Thank you.
ZYL: (laughs) For what? (changes the subject)
Shen Wei thanking Zhao Yunlan here echoes their conversation 10k years ago, awwwww! I think here, he's thanking him for being by his side, for once more bringing hope by talking Shen Wei out of his dismay and self-recrimination and back into determination and action. And maybe, too, by Zhao Yunlan's referring to their sacrifices and persistence, Shen Wei feels Zhao Yunlan is giving him permission to carry out his contingency plan. (He doesn't need permission, of course, but it must be good to know Zhao Yunlan will understand.) - Shen Wei has asked Da Qing to find the rest of the SID. Zhao Yunlan has a plan to manage things in Haixing. "The most worrying thing is us Humans right now." And then he uses the most delightfully Zhao Yunlan idiom I can imagine: Let's go to the mountains knowing there are tigers (ie, time for a calculated risk). :D :D :D
- At the DoS, Lin Jing comes to the security check, all serious (undercover) and not accepting Changcheng's warm greeting.
Discussion starters:
- What's your favourite scene in this episode? Favourite line of dialogue? For me, it's the entire clifftop conversation, and especially Zhao Yunlan asking Shen Wei not to blame him for leaving. It says so much!!
- How do you feel about YOHE Ye Zun? Do you have thoughts about his terrible circumstances? Do they make you pity him?
- Any thoughts or feelings about Fu You and Ma Gui? Do you ship them? Do you think Fu You was right to leave?
- At the end of the episode, Shen Wei seems to think he could have defeated Ye Zun in YOHE. Why do you think he thinks this?li
- What exactly does Shen Wei feel about Ye Zun using the Envoy's image to start a war?
- We know that, among other things, the treaty places some restrictions on the Envoy. Does burning it change anything?
- Does the Regent have any redeeming features?
- The first time you watched, did you think Lin Jing had gone to the dark side, or did you recognise his no-nonsense attitude to Changcheng as a ruse?
Let’s talk about episode 35!
Come and talk about this episode – anything from favourite scenes or lines of dialogue to notes/questions about continuity or translation, most gorgeous (or angsty) smile, or anything else that strikes your fancy! And share links to your own and/or others’ episode-related meta, picspams, and fanworks, new or old!
Links to episode 35 fanworks and meta go here!
- any other episode reactions or related meta
- fanworks, picspams, squee, etc, relating to episode 35 generally or to specific scenes, characters, or events in this episode
Link to your own works and/or others'. Help us build as comprehensive a collection of links as possible!Re: Links to episode 35 fanworks and meta go here!
Scene discussions:
bb Ye Zun gains his powers by
Da Qing and his bells by
Ye Zun and Shen Wei fall into the abyss by
Shen Wei wakes up after 10K years and talks to the Regent by
Focus on Ye Zun: The world is terrible, better destroy it by
Timeloop parallels AKA is Li Qian immortal now? by me
Ye Olde Olde Haixing Era and some of its parallels by me
Re: Links to episode 35 fanworks and meta go here!
Restoration (1,100 words) -- an 11-drabble sequence where the Allied Forces catch someone trying to steal the Hallows
A Key to the Future (1,411 words) -- Ye Zun is sucked into the wormhole instead of Zhao Yunlan
The Past and an Ocean Behind You (5,669 words) -- Da Qing is imprisoned in the energy seal with Ye Zun
Coming Upstairs (690 words) -- Shen Wei arriving in Haixing
Re: Links to episode 35 fanworks and meta go here!
This Moment In Between (1146 words) [Teen And Up]
Relationship/Characters: Shen Wei/Zhao Yunlan
Content Tags: First Kiss, Reunion, Time Travel, Episode Related, Episode 35
Summary: "Shen Wei," he breathed, and feasted his eyes.
What could have happened in the vortex when Zhao Yunlan returned from the past.
Re: Links to episode 35 fanworks and meta go here!
Re: Links to episode 35 fanworks and meta go here!
"Till the Stars Fade Out of Sight" by psiten"
Re: Links to episode 35 fanworks and meta go here!
Re: Links to episode 35 fanworks and meta go here!
always already meant it (3050 words) [Teen And Up]
Characters/Relationship: Shen Wei/Zhao Yunlan
Content Tags: Time Loop, New Beginnings, Bed-sharing, Missing Scene, Episode Related, Episode 35/36
Summary: "Was the timeline always already fixed? Did we ever have a choice?"
Re: Links to episode 35 fanworks and meta go here!
Re: Links to episode 35 fanworks and meta go here!
no subject
Because it was brought up on Discord, in regards to the difference between the real Heipaoshi and Ye Zun’s impersonation, I made a great sacrifice and rewatched some scenes paying special attention to Zhu Yilong’s face.
I noticed that he pulls his jaw in as Ye Zun, and the eyes are also different. Ye Zun’s are opened wider I think.
Shen Wei decides to go keep the peace in Haixing and look for the Hallows, but first he talks to Ye Zun in the pillar and discovers his brother hasn't repented
I already wrote this last time, but when Shen Wei puts on his iconic mask, he uses the same gesture as when he adjusts his glasses. Or is it the other way around? Hm. It’s a nice moment regardless.
I like that this ancient wuxia warrior thrown into modern times doesn’t allow himself to wallow and despair – instead he finds a new purpose for himself ❤
What's your favourite scene in this episode? Favourite line of dialogue?
The scene(s) surrounding Zhao Yunlan’s return through the wormhole.
Shen Wei and Ye Zun fighting is just so well done from a technical point. Almost makes you believe there are two of Zhu Yilong! And the expressive faces he pulls in this scene!
But my favourite line is “I waited 10 000 years for you”. It’s sappy, but it’s earned sappiness, you know? ❤
How do you feel about YOHE Ye Zun? Do you have thoughts about his terrible circumstances? Do they make you pity him?
I do feel bad for him when he gets mistreated by the rebel chief, but it doesn’t last very long because he then proceeds to make some really bad choices. Also I’m distracted by his pretty face.
Any thoughts or feelings about Fu You and Ma Gui? Do you ship them? Do you think Fu You was right to leave?
I don’t really get why they can’t initiate a relationship or whatever Ma Gui was aiming for. These people have no concept of work-life-balance.
I feel that Fu You is making a sacrifice for sacrificing’s sake, when it wouldn’t actually be necessary.
At the end of the episode, Shen Wei seems to think he could have defeated Ye Zun in YOHE. Why do you think he thinks this?
Could he mean he should have killed Ye Zun or at least contained him better when he first woke from his nap? There was certainly more time to figure something out, before Ye Zun escaped from the pillar.
no subject
when Shen Wei puts on his iconic mask, he uses the same gesture as when he adjusts his glasses. Or is it the other way around? Hm. It’s a nice moment regardless.
That is so cool -- such a great observation. Both of them are masks! :D :D :D
I like that this ancient wuxia warrior thrown into modern times doesn’t allow himself to wallow and despair – instead he finds a new purpose for himself ❤
Yes, that's so good! And then... he goes to university, which makes so much sense for him! (Do you think of him as wuxia? I'm not sure of the limits of that category.)
I do feel bad for him when he gets mistreated by the rebel chief, but it doesn’t last very long because he then proceeds to make some really bad choices. Also I’m distracted by his pretty face.
Ha, yes indeed. There are reasons for his terrible life choices, but that doesn't fix the fact that he makes them.
I don’t really get why they can’t initiate a relationship or whatever Ma Gui was aiming for. These people have no concept of work-life-balance.
LOL! Exactly!
I feel that Fu You is making a sacrifice for sacrificing’s sake, when it wouldn’t actually be necessary.
Honestly, her decision always makes me think she just isn't that into him. Like, I feel like for her it was a meeting-of-the-minds and a great working relationship, which she enjoyed, but she doesn't seem to be drawn to him the same way he's clearly into her. ;-p
Could he mean he should have killed Ye Zun or at least contained him better when he first woke from his nap? There was certainly more time to figure something out, before Ye Zun escaped from the pillar.
Idk, I think the pillar was pretty impregnable from inside and out. It took a lot for Ye Zun to break out. But I may be swayed by the original subs, which actually say, "It's my fault. I should kill him 10000 years ago."
no subject
Yes! And he is absolutely thriving as a professor ❤❤❤
Ah, I'm not sure about a precise definition either. I was just thinking the fantasy ancient China setting we see in YOHE would fit the genre, but there's probably more requirements story- and character-wise.
Honestly, her decision always makes me think she just isn't that into him
Poor Ma Gui, not even worth a proper rejection XD
Idk, I think the pillar was pretty impregnable from inside and out. It took a lot for Ye Zun to break out. But I may be swayed by the original subs, which actually say, "It's my fault. I should kill him 10000 years ago."
Yeah, it’s not rational for Shen Wei to blame himself at all, he had no reason to doubt the pillar’s effectiveness. And obviously Ye Zun is responsible for his own actions, regardless.
no subject
Yes! I love that too. :D
I think YOHE would feel more wuxia to me if we didn't have Zhao Yunlan blundering around being very modern-thinking, with the thinnest of Kunlun veneers. *g*
Poor Ma Gui, not even worth a proper rejection XD
LOL, right?
And obviously Ye Zun is responsible for his own actions, regardless.
Well, up to a point. I wonder how much all that mind control scrambled his brains... (I find it hard to have much sympathy for Ye Zun because he's cruel, but objectively, it's not like he ever really had a chance to turn out better.)
no subject
He's pretty unwell, even before he gets stuck in a pillar for 10 000 years, yes.
I have some sympathy for a Quest of Revenge when it comes to people who avtually wronged you (and Ye Zun seems rather convinced of Shen Wei's betrayal), but none for extending that to uninvolved third-parties.
no subject
no subject
I still want him to get a chance to heal, and to finally grow out of all of this, though. *g*
no subject
Very cool! He also pulls his lips in, making them seem thinner and more tense - that's what I always notice ...
Almost makes you believe there are two of Zhu Yilong!
Right? It's incredibly well-constructed, the way they cut it together so smoothly you can entirely believe there are two identical-looking people in this scene.
I feel that Fu You is making a sacrifice for sacrificing’s sake, when it wouldn’t actually be necessary.
Heh. I always get the feeling it's not much of a sacrifice for her, that he's totally gone on her but she's just letting him down gently.
no subject
I've always felt that too (that maybe she found their partnership intellectually invigorating, and she cares about him platonically, but not romantically or give-up-her-leadership-position much) -- but now I'm wondering about the fact that Zhao Yunlan encouraged Ma Gui to declare himself. He's usually pretty perceptive, so... does he think Fu You would actually be into it, or is he trying to engineer the kind of declaration-and-rejection situation that gave Zhu Hong closure re her crush? *g*
no subject
Ooh! I love that thought! What a delightful potential parallel!
no subject
LOL!
I think this whole sequence is so fascinating - Zhao Yunlan asks Shen Wei his name, thinking he knows what he'll hear, and then he's blindsided by a different Wei - the way he leans back for a moment! So honestly, for all that it absolutely is presumptuous of him (much just like his "I'm your master" with Da Qing), probably a lot of this is actually mostly out of surprise here, his mouth running before he fully realises what he's saying. (Including incomprehensible-to-ShenWei rambling about answering the phone!)
I also wanted to talk about the bit before that, where Shen Wei talks about being called (the wrong) Wei. Subs have it as "back then, our people used to call me Wei. It means that I came from the mountains," but it's actually more like, "our people there [not here, so presumably "back then"] often call(ed) me Wei, saying I came from the mountain(s)" - and I always wonder which people those were. Also, the bit about coming from the mountain(s) isn't something he himself claims, but something he quotes others as saying.
I suppose Wei (written as "mountain ghost") is what people called him when he started fighting, before he acquired the Black-Cloaked Envoy moniker - a mysterious figure from the mountain. And I don't think anyone has ever called him "Shen Wei" before, no matter which Wei - the people who called him Wei probably didn't know his actual surname. I guess that made it easier for Shen Wei to take the name Kunlun gave him!
(I still wonder about his actual birth name - the way he talks about being called Wei doesn't sound like it was when he and Ye Zun were kids. Does he even remember it? Also, he says their parents died early, and they struck out on their own even before the meteor struck. Did they go from Dixing to Haixing at the time, or were their parents already on the surface? I wonder about the connections between those places at that time ...)
Then he asks about Shen Wei's backstory, and while Shen Wei talks openly, Zhao Yunlan listens. He isn't figuring out how to slyly ask for compensation or being a cute ratbag; his attention is absolute. Partly, this is because he's matured and now understands his own importance, so he doesn't have to joke for attention or put up defences anymore; partly I think it's because he's been denied these confidences for so long, and he wants them so badly. To hear about Shen Wei's past. To be a shoulder for Shen Wei to unburden himself onto. It was worth travelling 10k years just for this!
Yes to all of this! So much! He's wanted this - but also, earlier he wouldn't have been capable of accepting such a confidence like this; he'd have felt the need to joke to throw off the seriousness, or some such thing. So it's both a reward and a result of everything that's come before. Time loop! I love it so.
I think that, at the time Kunlun showed up, YOHE!Shen Wei was having a crisis, not of confidence or self-worth, but of hope.
Yeah, we talked about this before, and I agree, that makes a lot of sense. Kunlun makes such a huge difference for Shen Wei not just because of the personal connection, but also because of the shared values and the faith and the future he offers.
Shen Wei starts to say, "If I had a choice..." and Zhao Yunlan cuts him off and tells him he'd still be a leader. "Even if it is not what you want, you would still fight with the bad because of your conscience and for the sake of everyone."
And I still want to know what Shen Wei would have said! Even though Zhao Yunlan is of course entirely right, and even thought he way Shen Wei looks at him when he says it shows how understood he feels.
I think this partly parallels the start of the previous episode, with Chu Shuzhi telling the truth about him and Nianzhi.
Oh, yes, good catch! :D
There's a dramatic contrast between the Rebels and the Allied Forces. The Rebels are assembled outside, with no apparent infrastructure; their Leader is a thug and a bully, ruling with an iron and mind-controlling fist. Meanwhile, the Allied Forces are led by a lord and a lady who don't seem to be fighters so much as strategists; they have at least one general, a council chamber, and magical healing ointment. Ma Gui tries to develop a technological breakthrough that can help them win the war. Given how little the Rebels seem to have, it's not surprising they're not interested in peace...
It's kind of weird that there's a real threat of them winning the war, but despite them being so powerful, they don't seem to actually have anything ... unless, of course, it's all just offscreen. *g*
Regarding Ye Zun and the rebel chief, this scene is so fascinating. Ye Zun is so visibly simultaneously terrified and furious - right until the chief uses his power on Ye Zun, and then Ye Zun suddenly becomes calm and obedient rather than seething with ambition and fear and fury. (And everyone else standing around so calmly, presumably mind-controlled too ...) And he's so different from Ye Zun in the modern day, but also so very recognisably Ye Zun at the same time.
I also wonder what Ye Zun is expecting when the chief uses his black energy on the Hallows - it almost looks to me like he's hoping for backlash there.
He's mind controlled like the other soldiers, but also verbally and physically abused and lied to. He's despised for his illness/weakness/lack of power. He believes he has nowhere else to go, and he's disturbingly flinchy.
Yeah, it's awful. :(
And the rebel chief has been manipulating him into blaming his brother for everything, but that hatred he instilled and nourished now becomes the cause of his downfall: something about the rebel chief promising to help Ye Zunm avenge himself while also saying he'll kill him after ("then it's your turn") seems to break through the mind control, making Ye Zun shoiut at the chief to shut up, only he can kill his brother! And actually attack the chief. I wonder if this has happened before - and if not, why not. (Possibly being away from the mind control on the Hallows heist for some time gave him the strength to resist?)
At any rate, if the rebel chief hadn't provoked Ye Zun into attacking him and then tried to kill him in retaliation, Ye Zun's powers wouldn't have awoken, and the rebel chief wouldn't have been eaten. *g*
(Also, at this point, the rebel chief must know who the Envoy is; he's seen him without his mask on the cliff. Maybe that's why he's more willing to kill Ye Zun outright than he has been before? I don't think Ye Zun has knows yet who the Envoy is; going by the way the rebel chief talks to him, he at least didn't tell him.)
When the chief falls, it looks to me like everyone around startles as if they've been shaken awake. And Ye Zun gets the silver hair of power overload!
Ye Zun's power activates, and it's clearly involuntary and terrifying.
And he looks terrified while he's eating the chief, and afterwards too - but that smile when he, for the first time, sees black energy gathering around his hand!
When the Rebels acknowledge him, they hold out a new, golden mask. Maybe one of them has an on-the-spot appropriate-mask-creating power?
Haha, I love that!
(Seriously, what is it with Dixingren and masks?!)
And then Shen Wei breaks Zhao Yunlan's heart by thanking him for being interested. It seems very IC to me that Shen Wei doesn't blame others for keeping their distance; it's just the way things are.
100% agreed! And Zhao Yunlan so visibly hurts for him. ♥ ♥ ♥
Zhao Yunlan says, "If one day, I leave without saying goodbye, please don't blame me. You only need to know that we will meet again." (I wonder if he's partly talking to future Shen Wei there too, promising him (and himself) that they'll be reunited?)
My thought was that he says it at this moment because of what Shen Wei just said to him. He knows he can't stay with Shen Wei, and after all this he's a bit afraid of how much it'll hurt Shen Wei when he inevitably disappears. So he tries to give him some reassurance, as much as he can.
Da Qing runs up. "The Rebel Leader sent a declaration of war." (Confusing, because it seemed like they were already at war, right?)
This confused me too, so I looked at the original, and I think what he's saying is more like, "The rebel leader suddenly sent troops into battle against us." (开战 means to start a war, to make war, or to do battle against someone. And there's definitely nothing about a declaration in there.)
I always wondered what Ye Zun's intentions are with this - but this time round, from the way the confrontation goes, I think he must have found out that the Envoy is his brother. I wonder how!
Also, I love that we get to see Shen Wei picking up the lollipop wrapper! ♥
In the clash that follows, Zhao Yunlan uses his gun ruthlessly and unhesitatingly.
Yeah, we talked a bit about that on discord too. Here in YOHE is where he first starts using his gun so freely, in a way he never has before - and it might be because YOHE on some level doesn't feel as real to him, or it might be because this is a war, not an investigation, but he definitely comes out of it changed, and will use his gun much more in the present as well, after his return.
And he and Shen Wei work together seamlessly -- Shen Wei throws Zhao Yunlan the box of Hallows without even calling his name first, freeing himself to fight Ye Zun. <3 <3 <3
Yes, this! I loved that moment so much!
Here's another sign that more time may have passed, btw - Ye Zun is suddenly proficient at using black energy in the fight against Shen Wei, when earlier we saw him entirely surprised by his own black energy!
But having retrieved the Hallows, they retreat.
And they get away from Ye Zun and his minions easily - again, I have to assume Shen Wei uses a power here that we don't get to see, because otherwise Ye Zun could easily chase after them. But instead it takes him and his men some time (long enough for them to open the box of Hallows, and for Zhao Yunlan to have his moment with Da Qing) to catch up to Shen Wei and Zhao Yunlan again for their second confrontation.
The Hallows won't activate. Zhao Yunlan even picks up the Awl without having visions!
Haha, right????
I do wonder what's going through his head - he opens the box expecting to go home, and then it just doesn't work.
Also, Shen Wei talks as if he hasn't seen Hallows before (原来这就是... "so it turns out these are ..."), but he clearly knows about them, and identifies the first three. But of course it's, fittingly, Zhao Yunlan wo names the Guardian Lantern!
but it's Da Qing who runs up, protesting, "No! You just came! Why are you leaving now?"
Really, as RJ said on discord, neither Da Qing nor Shen Wei needs to hear "can you be more mature" in response to "I don't want you to leave". Or "if you're like this maybe I won't want you any more", argh, Zhao Yunlan!
I wanted this to be where Zhao Yunlan realised he was Da Qing's master, but he has been claiming that all along; I guess it's where Da Qing claims him back, though, and where Zhao Yunlan realises the significance of the bells.
Yes, this!
(Btw, when Zhao Yunlan says he's Da Qing's master "now or in the future", in the original he says, approximately, "I am now, and when we see each other again I'll still be". ♥)
And here, in YOHE, with Shen Wei not weakened by light energy, and with Zhao Yunlan at his most shooty, even working together they still can't defeat Ye Zun. He knocks them all over with relative ease. But the Hallows intervene, dragging Zhao Yunlan into their wormhole.
This is an excellent point! No wonder he's not willing to risk it.
And Ye Zun, despite not knowing what a gun even is, has no trouble catching the bullets.
(This fight scene between the twins is so well shot, given how it must have been constructed!)
Also interesting: earlier Zhao Yunlan was trying to activate the wormhole and return home, but now that it's here, he's actually resisting initially, presumably not wanting to leave Shen Wei in the middle of a fight.
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♥ ♥ ♥
THERE SHOULD BE A HUG HERE, THOUGH.
I love how Zhao Yunlan's having met and mentored the younger Shen Wei doesn't alter their present-day dynamic: modern Shen Wei is still ancient, authoritative and a scientist, and Zhao Yunlan slots into place as his partner who defers to Shen Wei's judgement, knowledge of wormholes, etc -- while still angling for what he wants, because he's still Zhao Yunlan. *g*
Hee! Yes, all of this!
Also, I want to know what research Shen Wei did that lets him talk with such confidence about not much time passing while they're inside the wormhole - how does he know? Fascinating!
(Actually, possibly his knowledge of this is proof that Ye Zun's claim - when he pretended to be Shen Wei - that no one ever returned from a wormhole wasn't true? At least, one of them has to be wrong.)
Zhao Yunlan says he wants to see the ending, and I feel like either Shen Wei doesn't, or he doesn't want Zhao Yunlan to see it? But he doesn't argue.
I think he just wants to return to the present, and not dwell on what to him are old memories?
(I think there's a potential AU here where Shen Wei decides the Hallows are problematic, and he goes into engineering instead of biology to figure out how to destroy them, and research other ways of bringing resources to Dixing. ;-p)
Oh, I like that! :D
(The AU I always wonder about is the one where Shen Wei actually manages to pull Ye Zun free, and the Hallows leave them alive in YOHE. What then? I feel like Ye Zun was a lot more reachable before he got to stew in his own hatred for 10,000 years.)
Shen Wei following Ye Zun into the energy seal seems a lot like his following Zhao Yunlan into the wormhole last episode: throwing caution to the wind for the people he cares about most, who he wants to keep and protect.
Yes! Symbolically at least, definitely - but it also looks to me like after Ye Zun falls, when Shen Wei is standing at the edge of the abyss, that he starts feeling the Hallows' pull himself, and seems to be struggling a bit. And given that he's just seen both Zhao Yunlan and Ye Zun pulled away by them, unable to resist, he may not have felt he had a choice.
Fu You says, "Goodbye, Dixingren," to the other treaty signatory like she didn't bother to ask his name, hee. (Or is it plural? 再见了地星人)
It's not explicitly plural, but I think it can be read as collective, yeah.
What I wondered about, this time round, is what Fu You says about Ye Zun in the energy seal - how do they know his name? And they might have learned the new rebel leader's name from surviving rebels, but how do they know it's him in the energy seal? I didn't think there were any witnesses. Was Ye Zun conscious and able to talk inside the pillar at this point?!
And like every other "good guy" character else in the show, she puts leadership ahead of personal things -- and she makes Ma Gui do the same.
I thought she was using that reasoning to avoid having to turn him down - my feeling is that she's just not into him the way he is into her.
Da Qing doesn't remember anything, and apparently everyone is refusing to fill him in (???)
Yeah, I've always wondered about this too! Why is no one telling him what he's forgotten?!
The Regent, faced with this wide-eyed, young-seeming ancient legend who outranks him but knows nothing about the current political climate, is understandably I think none too thrilled, but he hides it well.
Yeah, he plays the doddering old man and flatters the Envoy, but he's clearly trying to feel him out. He has to be worried, and then very glad when Shen Wei reassures him he's not about to throw his weight around and upset the current political situation - and even better, that he wants to go off to the surface! *g*
And then we get a delightful glimpse of an Envoy-in-Haixing-fighting-crime procedural, which I would have LOVED to see more of, especially if it featured pre-embittered Zhao Xinci.
Hee! I'd really like more fic about Shen Wei in this 20-years-ago era in general - adjusting to the present, getting to know modern-day Haixing, that expedition to search for the Hallows with Wu Tian'en ...
And I always wondered what identity the Inspectorate gave the Envoy. Other than the name, does it have anything in common with the identity he must have created later to become a university student?
It's not 100% clear to me what he thinks Ye Zun's crime is -- continuing the warmongering after he took power, I guess?
Yeah, presumably!
I really love the bit where Shen Wei quotes his friend (presumably "Kunlun") saying that Dixingren also love, hate, and feel touched, they're not so different, foreshadowing Zhao Yunlan's speech next episode! If Zhao Yunlan said something like that at some point in YOHE while we weren't looking, maybe that's what gave him the idea for the livestream ...
Zhao Yunlan checks his phone (a perfectly reasonable first move after being offline for who even knows how long)
LOL, right?
Flashback to Ye Zun stirring up a crowd, with An Bai and the Regent watching. (This takes place in the palace, but it's a weird angle and it took me a moment to be sure.) The bartender vouches for the fake!Envoy, despite his uncharacteristic behaviour. Sigh! I like the bartender, but he's not the smartest cookie.
So much fascinating stuff in this little scene! An Bai isn't on the throne; Ye Zun yet again impersonates Shen Wei badly but takes people in anyway (several are dubious and rather WTF about what he's saying, but he's just convincing enough, apparently); "Thanks to the Dijun and the Regent I now hold direct command" - Ye Zun has made them make him dictator of Dixing! And the Regent in the background looks like he's trying to find an angle and failing.
(It's really amazing how very much he looks like Ye Zun, even while wearing his brother's clothes - this time, the costume is perfect, unlike the "Professor Shen" impersonation! And they have the exact same face! And yet!)
At the DoS security check, Guo Ying schools Changcheng in discretion
Yeah, and I love that he manages to warn his nephew, AND reassure him that he cares about the SID too. He's not on board with everything that's happening.
In the street, Shen Wei and Zhao Yunlan walk and talk (with very little urgency for wanted men).
I guess the Inspectorate must have withdrawn the men in the street, because otherwise this would be ridiculous. (It wouldn't be out of character for Minister Gao either to first be very gung-ho about something and then go on to quietly ignore it...)
Shen Wei thanking Zhao Yunlan here echoes their conversation 10k years ago, awwwww! I think here, he's thanking him for being by his side, for once more bringing hope by talking Shen Wei out of his dismay and self-recrimination and back into determination and action. And maybe, too, by Zhao Yunlan's referring to their sacrifices and persistence, Shen Wei feels Zhao Yunlan is giving him permission to carry out his contingency plan. (He doesn't need permission, of course, but it must be good to know Zhao Yunlan will understand.)
Yes, all of this! I love the little parallel, and I do think it's that Shen Wei feels Zhao Yunlan understands him, that they share the same priorities - and so Zhao Yunlan will understand him when (if? I don't think he's given up entirely on an alternate solution, but it has to be a small hope at this point) he has to use his failsafe.
Shen Wei has asked Da Qing to find the rest of the SID.
I want to know when this happened! When did Shen Wei and Zhao Yunlan separate for long enough that Shen Wei could give Da Qing a mission without Zhao Yunlan knowing? (I mean, maybe Zhao Yunlan just went to the loo at the SID before they went out, but still!)
And then he uses the most delightfully Zhao Yunlan idiom I can imagine: Let's go to the mountains knowing there are tigers (ie, time for a calculated risk). :D :D :D
It's an excellent idiom! :D
What's your favourite scene in this episode? Favourite line of dialogue? For me, it's the entire clifftop conversation, and especially Zhao Yunlan asking Shen Wei not to blame him for leaving. It says so much!!
It's all so good, I can't pick!
How do you feel about YOHE Ye Zun? Do you have thoughts about his terrible circumstances? Do they make you pity him?
Of course I pity him. No one deserves that. Doesn't excuse him for what he does after, but he's really grown up under awful circumstances, and it's no surprise he can't move past its effects. Even if he had never committed any crimes himself, there's SO much healing he needed! And instead he got stuck in solitary confinement for 10,000 years, making the whole thing even worse. :(
Any thoughts or feelings about Fu You and Ma Gui? Do you ship them? Do you think Fu You was right to leave?
I think she was wrong to leave and (apparently) cut ties with the other parts of the alliance, for political reasons. But I don't think she was wrong to turn down Ma Gui; she just doesn't seem to have returned his feelings.
At the end of the episode, Shen Wei seems to think he could have defeated Ye Zun in YOHE. Why do you think he thinks this?
I think he may mean that moment after the reveal when Ye Zun was pretending to cry - if he'd ruthlessly struck then, he might have managed to take Ye Zun down. But of course he didn't; of course he never would have.
What exactly does Shen Wei feel about Ye Zun using the Envoy's image to start a war?
I have trouble putting it into words, but this clearly hits him in the worst way!
We know that, among other things, the treaty places some restrictions on the Envoy. Does burning it change anything?
Oooh, good question! It depends on whether the paper Ye Zun burns is just paperwork (and so the burning is just symbolic), or whether it actually physically embodies these restrictions themselves. I could see it go either way ...
Does the Regent have any redeeming features?
Not really, LOL. The best you can say of him is that he's not as evil as he might be. (And even that is half because he's so unwilling to commit to anything; he's always trying to hedge his bets.)
The first time you watched, did you think Lin Jing had gone to the dark side, or did you recognise his no-nonsense attitude to Changcheng as a ruse?
I don't think I ever for a moment considered that Lin Jing had changed sides!
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Hee! I'm prepared to accept it as an effect of the portal (they can't touch/reach each other, because they're not physically embodied, or they're actually in different parts of the dimension or something?), or a character note (Shen Wei, in particular, holding back because once he starts, he won't be able to let go?). But yeah...
Also, I want to know what research Shen Wei did that lets him talk with such confidence about not much time passing while they're inside the wormhole - how does he know? Fascinating!
He is a theoretician, right? And for that matter, Dixing has had 10k years with at least one portal to Haixing, no matter that only certain people are authorised to pass through it. There must have been some research or scientific theorising about it and, by extension, wormholes and so forth, surely.
I think he just wants to return to the present, and not dwell on what to him are old memories?
Well, but some of his old memories are clearly precious to him and he presumably just watched them play out (for however long) with some sense of nostalgia... I feel like what comes next is markedly different. I wonder if, in retrospect, he regrets letting himself fall into the energy seal... or if he doesn't want Zhao Yunlan see him abdicate his position, even if the war has been won.
The AU I always wonder about is the one where Shen Wei actually manages to pull Ye Zun free, and the Hallows leave them alive in YOHE. What then? I feel like Ye Zun was a lot more reachable before he got to stew in his own hatred for 10,000 years.
Oh, interesting! There are some fics like that, aren't there? (I have one that's not dissimilar, though it branches off a little earlier.)
Yes! Symbolically at least, definitely - but it also looks to me like after Ye Zun falls, when Shen Wei is standing at the edge of the abyss, that he starts feeling the Hallows' pull himself, and seems to be struggling a bit.
Do you think so? I always thought he chose to go. He's just lost Kunlun, and we see his horrified reaction at losing Didi again. And then he feels the tugs of the energy seal (is that what you mean by him struggling?). I feel like he could have at least tried to break out, but instead he hands history over to his brothers in arms and chooses to let himself be taken. (I actually think that's kind of an important character beat: it's not a surrender to fate, so much as an active choice to follow his brother -- he won't lose him again! But YMMV!)
It's not explicitly plural, but I think it can be read as collective, yeah.
Ah, okay. Less comical, but makes more sense. ;-)
I thought she was using that reasoning to avoid having to turn him down - my feeling is that she's just not into him the way he is into her.
Same! I was trying to accommodate people who ship them. :-)
Yeah, I've always wondered about this too! Why is no one telling him what he's forgotten?!
Maybe they think it'll break his brain. They saw him in the Hallows-zoom thing, so they know he'll meet Zhao Yunlan again in ~10k years. Maybe they think it's better not to know how long he's going to have to wait? (Or maybe they did tell him, and he keeps forgetting again, and they've given up. ;-p)
And I always wondered what identity the Inspectorate gave the Envoy. Other than the name, does it have anything in common with the identity he must have created later to become a university student?
Presumably nothing too high profile (eg, diplomat), or it would make reinventing himself rather tricky. The fact that the SID doesn't link his former and present-day identities suggests he was mostly off the radar...
I really love the bit where Shen Wei quotes his friend (presumably "Kunlun") saying that Dixingren also love, hate, and feel touched, they're not so different, foreshadowing Zhao Yunlan's speech next episode!
Yes, that's really great! I'd completely forgotten that till you referenced it ?last ep?.
An Bai isn't on the throne
But must still be in thrall to it; the Regent is shocked in ep 39 when he breaks free.
Yeah, and I love that he manages to warn his nephew, AND reassure him that he cares about the SID too. He's not on board with everything that's happening.
Yesss! *hearts so much* (This foreshadows his detention, I guess.)
(I mean, maybe Zhao Yunlan just went to the loo at the SID before they went out, but still!)
LOL! Maybe ZYL was catching up on his email?
Doesn't excuse him for what he does after, but he's really grown up under awful circumstances, and it's no surprise he can't move past its effects. Even if he had never committed any crimes himself, there's SO much healing he needed! And instead he got stuck in solitary confinement for 10,000 years, making the whole thing even worse. :(
Right? I wonder what the Hallows were "thinking". /o\
I think he may mean that moment after the reveal when Ye Zun was pretending to cry - if he'd ruthlessly struck then, he might have managed to take Ye Zun down. But of course he didn't; of course he never would have.
Ooh, now that would be an interesting time travel AU dilemma! Imagine if he went back and had to try and overcome his fraternal feelings.
It depends on whether the paper Ye Zun burns is just paperwork (and so the burning is just symbolic), or whether it actually physically embodies these restrictions themselves. I could see it go either way ...
Yeah, me too. Shen Wei is so weakened by this stage (cf, the trouble he has opening the portal in ep 37) that I don't know it would make much difference to his power levels.
> Does the Regent have any redeeming features?
> > Not really, LOL. The best you can say of him is that he's not as evil as he might be. (And even that is half because he's so unwilling to commit to anything; he's always trying to hedge his bets.)
Aw, see, I think for all his weaselly self-interest, he does care about Dixing and the rule of law. Remember how upset he was about the last Dijun's murder? Otoh, his methods and expectations for what a proper society look like are so terrible and warped that they undermine the benefit of any trace of duty he might feel. /o\
I don't think I ever for a moment considered that Lin Jing had changed sides!
Haha, right? SID Forever! *pets him*
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NO EXCUSES. And I agree on the character note regarding Shen Wei - he probably wouldn't initiate - but I really, really think in this situation Zhao Yunlan would. And every time I rewatch this I become more convinced of it. :p
He is a theoretician, right? And for that matter, Dixing has had 10k years with at least one portal to Haixing, no matter that only certain people are authorised to pass through it. There must have been some research or scientific theorising about it and, by extension, wormholes and so forth, surely.
All excellent points! I love this and want ALLLLL the fic about it. *g*
Well, but some of his old memories are clearly precious to him and he presumably just watched them play out (for however long) with some sense of nostalgia... I feel like what comes next is markedly different. I wonder if, in retrospect, he regrets letting himself fall into the energy seal... or if he doesn't want Zhao Yunlan see him abdicate his position, even if the war has been won.
I agree that it's different, I just don't feel he's deliberately avoiding anything. He's happy to rewatch his Kunlun memories, but the memories after he wakes up have nothing he's nostalgic about, nothing he particularly wants to revisit.
Oh, interesting! There are some fics like that, aren't there? (I have one that's not dissimilar, though it branches off a little earlier.)
Yeah, there are fics that branch off in YOHE, but I don't remember one that takes off from this moment in particular, which is what I'm interested in, and the contrast between Kunlun being ripped away but Shen Wei managing to hold on to Ye Zun.
Do you think so? I always thought he chose to go. He's just lost Kunlun, and we see his horrified reaction at losing Didi again. And then he feels the tugs of the energy seal (is that what you mean by him struggling?). I feel like he could have at least tried to break out, but instead he hands history over to his brothers in arms and chooses to let himself be taken.
I think he could have tried to fight it, and would have if part of him hadn't been willing to let go, but I also think that if he hadn't felt the Hallows' pull, there's zero chance he'd have let himself fall. If that makes sense? (And I agree about him following his brother - but I think the Hallows' pull is what gives him leave to do it, to abdicate his duties, you know?)
Or maybe they did tell him, and he keeps forgetting again, and they've given up. ;-p
Oh hell. I could see that, in which case it's very evil of the Hallows! I hate messing with people's minds.
Presumably nothing too high profile (eg, diplomat), or it would make reinventing himself rather tricky. The fact that the SID doesn't link his former and present-day identities suggests he was mostly off the radar...
Yeah, that makes sense to me. (Hey, do you think that other identity still exists? Is there another Shen Wei still on file, twenty years older, supposedly living somewhere else?)
But must still be in thrall to it; the Regent is shocked in ep 39 when he breaks free.
Yeah, agreed. And I guess we do know from the old Dijun that he can get up!
Yesss! *hearts so much* (This foreshadows his detention, I guess.)
Yeah, it all builds up to that very nicely!
Ooh, now that would be an interesting time travel AU dilemma! Imagine if he went back and had to try and overcome his fraternal feelings.
Oh, OUCH. :( :( :(
Aw, see, I think for all his weaselly self-interest, he does care about Dixing and the rule of law. Remember how upset he was about the last Dijun's murder? Otoh, his methods and expectations for what a proper society look like are so terrible and warped that they undermine the benefit of any trace of duty he might feel. /o\
I was going to say he has a sense of responsibility for Dixing's governance, to some degree, but then I reconsidered because the system of governance and his own part in it is so awful (see also: the Chu Shuzhi flashback from episode 36), so I wouldn't count upholding that system as a redeeming feature. *g*
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Ha. Fair enough!
He's happy to rewatch his Kunlun memories, but the memories after he wakes up have nothing he's nostalgic about, nothing he particularly wants to revisit.
But surely he has feelings about them. He's not neutral about Ye Zun being swallowed by the energy seal, or his own following after, right?
I think he could have tried to fight it, and would have if part of him hadn't been willing to let go, but I also think that if he hadn't felt the Hallows' pull, there's zero chance he'd have let himself fall. If that makes sense? (And I agree about him following his brother - but I think the Hallows' pull is what gives him leave to do it, to abdicate his duties, you know?)
It would certainly have been a different decision if he'd just found himself standing next to a hole in the ground, deciding whether to fling himself in, rather than letting the Hallows take him without a fight, I agree.
Hey, do you think that other identity still exists? Is there another Shen Wei still on file, twenty years older, supposedly living somewhere else?
Ha, an apartment that he drops in on once or twice a year to clear the mail? *g*
I was going to say he has a sense of responsibility for Dixing's governance, to some degree, but then I reconsidered because the system of governance and his own part in it is so awful
I've reconsidered, having rewatched ep 37, because the part I was thinking of where he expressed concern for the citizens is actually a trap for Shen Wei, and I'd forgotten that. /o\ Out-and-out villain, no redeeming features at all!
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Yeah, but having feelings about it isn't the same as feeling nostalgic and wanting to revisit that moment ...
Ha, an apartment that he drops in on once or twice a year to clear the mail? *g*
I love this idea! :D
(Maybe the Inspectorate/Xingdu Bureau didn't realise about his new identity because they thought the old one was still active!)
the part I was thinking of where he expressed concern for the citizens is actually a trap for Shen Wei
It was absolutely a trap, but that doesn't mean there can't have been truth in it too. Idk, you were right about his anger at the old Dijun being killed.
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Yeah, that's what I was saying in the post. I think he wants to avoid revisiting it.
(Maybe the Inspectorate/Xingdu Bureau didn't realise about his new identity because they thought the old one was still active!)
LOL, that would be awesome. And seems like an excellent plan for avoiding the Envoy being looked down on for being a student. ;-p
It was absolutely a trap, but that doesn't mean there can't have been truth in it too. Idk, you were right about his anger at the old Dijun being killed.
I want him to have at least one redeeming feature! Otherwise he's a cartoon. ;-p
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And seems like an excellent plan for avoiding the Envoy being looked down on for being a student. ;-p
Yes, good point! :D
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I just rewatched that bit, and my mind had apparently completely skipped over the bit where Shen Wei says he took a quick round-trip to Dixing! So after they returned from the wormhole, Shen Wei immediately went off to Dixing. Then he must have reunited with DQ first, then separated from him again, and finally met up with Zhao Yunlan for their walk in the street.
(Everyone's movements over these two episodes are making my head spin!)
ETA: Just tried to chart their movements ...
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Original: 我在地星来去匆匆，现在摄政官和新地君也投靠了夜尊。
Original subs: I have no allies in Dixing, and the lord and justiciar is on Ye Zun's side now.
Solo's subs: I made a quick round-trip to Dixing. The new Lord and the Regent also support Ye Zun now.
Viki subs: I have no allies in the Underworld. The Regent and Underworld Monarch are on Ye Zun's side now.
来去匆匆 does mean "come and go in a hurry", but the discrepancy between the translations is huge, and 在地星 is "in Dixing", not "to Dixing". (Also, the second part isn't just about whose side the Regent and the Dijun are on - 投靠 means "to rely on help from somebody, to seek refuge with somebody".
So going over it all again now, I think what he's saying may be, "In Dixing I'm always coming and going in a hurry, so now the Regent and the new Dijun have also taken refuge in Ye Zun." - implying that he has no allies there because he never stays long? Which would fit well with Shen Wei blaming himself.
Anyway, even if we scratch the Dixing part of the chart, there's still a lot going on. *g*
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That's such a good point. He's mostly just asking so he can call Shen Wei "Shen Wei", isn't he? Rather than "Hei Pao Shi"?
but it's actually more like, "our people there [not here, so presumably "back then"] often call(ed) me Wei, saying I came from the mountain(s)"
Oh, that's interesting! Thanks for that. <3
I suppose Wei (written as "mountain ghost") is what people called him when he started fighting, before he acquired the Black-Cloaked Envoy moniker - a mysterious figure from the mountain. And I don't think anyone has ever called him "Shen Wei" before, no matter which Wei - the people who called him Wei probably didn't know his actual surname. I guess that made it easier for Shen Wei to take the name Kunlun gave him!
Ahh, that all makes sense. Great analysis!
I still wonder about his actual birth name - the way he talks about being called Wei doesn't sound like it was when he and Ye Zun were kids. Does he even remember it? Also, he says their parents died early, and they struck out on their own even before the meteor struck. Did they go from Dixing to Haixing at the time, or were their parents already on the surface? I wonder about the connections between those places at that time ...
All excellent questions. I assume he's forgotten his birth name, or wouldn't he have told Kunlun? After all, Kunlun did say (something like), "Your parents didn't call you Hei Pao Shi, right?"
but also, earlier he wouldn't have been capable of accepting such a confidence like this; he'd have felt the need to joke to throw off the seriousness, or some such thing.
It would have made him so uncomfortable, agreed! I'm so proud of how far he's come. :D
And I still want to know what Shen Wei would have said! Even though Zhao Yunlan is of course entirely right, and even thought he way Shen Wei looks at him when he says it shows how understood he feels.
Whatever the YOHE equivalent of Professor of Biological Engineering was? ;-) Maybe he wanted to start a school.
It's kind of weird that there's a real threat of them winning the war, but despite them being so powerful, they don't seem to actually have anything ... unless, of course, it's all just offscreen. *g*
There could be a camp off-screen (there kind of has to be; someone has to be provisioning, for example), but it might also just be that the mind control makes them a highly coordinated and therefore formidable team. /o\ (Though we don't really see that, so maybe not? Narratively speaking, the mind control seems like a bit of an afterthought, really. It doesn't have any implications for the way they fight, for example.)
and then Ye Zun suddenly becomes calm and obedient rather than seething with ambition and fear and fury.
Do you think Ye Zun is ambitious at this stage? I think he's grasping for a way out from under the leader's boot, but I'm not sure I'd term that ambition exactly. (Am very open to other interpretations, though!)
I also wonder what Ye Zun is expecting when the chief uses his black energy on the Hallows - it almost looks to me like he's hoping for backlash there.
Oh, interesting! You think it might be a deliberate trap? He does seem super-ambivalent about the leader -- hating him but still serving him, taught that he's beholden to him but also so badly abused. I wonder how much his illness is the reason he hasn't run away (or maybe he's tried to and been brought back /o\).
something about the rebel chief promising to help Ye Zunm avenge himself while also saying he'll kill him after ("then it's your turn") seems to break through the mind control, making Ye Zun shoiut at the chief to shut up
Yeah, I think it's so telling that his hatred is intense enough to break through the mind control -- and it provides an interesting comparison with ep 39, where Changcheng's love for the SID and Chu Shuzhi helps him break out of Ye Zun's mind control.
At any rate, if the rebel chief hadn't provoked Ye Zun into attacking him and then tried to kill him in retaliation, Ye Zun's powers wouldn't have awoken, and the rebel chief wouldn't have been eaten. *g*
It's a very clear case of someone turning on their abuser, isn't it?
Also, at this point, the rebel chief must know who the Envoy is; he's seen him without his mask on the cliff.
I wonder if this has made the Envoy less intimidating to him -- now he's figured out it's that mouthy kid he threw off a cliff that time. Like, the mask really was a good idea in that regard.
but that smile when he, for the first time, sees black energy gathering around his hand!
Yeah, he's spent his whole life being scorned and abused for being powerless. And he's only ever seen powers used to dominate, I'd guess.
My thought was that he says it at this moment because of what Shen Wei just said to him. He knows he can't stay with Shen Wei, and after all this he's a bit afraid of how much it'll hurt Shen Wei when he inevitably disappears. So he tries to give him some reassurance, as much as he can.
Oh, yes, it's absolutely, 100% that! And I love that so much! (I think in one of my parallels posts, I compared that to Shen Wei saying (something like), "If I have to use my injury, I know you'll understand" in ep 40. Like, a head's up.) I just wondered if the line might be doing double duty.
and I think what he's saying is more like, "The rebel leader suddenly sent troops into battle against us."
Ohhh, that makes so much more sense. Thank you!
I always wondered what Ye Zun's intentions are with this - but this time round, from the way the confrontation goes, I think he must have found out that the Envoy is his brother. I wonder how!
He really does seem to know in advance. One of the other rebels could easily have told him; the leader wasn't the only one who saw Shen Wei without his mask, right? And that might actually make the rebels even more reconciled to their new leader -- he's the counterpart to the Allied Forces general. Maybe?
Also, I love that we get to see Shen Wei picking up the lollipop wrapper! ♥
Yesss!
Here in YOHE is where he first starts using his gun so freely, in a way he never has before - and it might be because YOHE on some level doesn't feel as real to him, or it might be because this is a war, not an investigation, but he definitely comes out of it changed, and will use his gun much more in the present as well, after his return.
Yeah, absolutely. I can't help feeling that Wang Zheng and Sang Zan's sacrifice has to play into it, too. The situation has crossed over into a deadly conflict for his people in both timezones, and there's no backing away from it. (Oh! Now I'm wondering when it is he connects the dots between modern-day Ye Zun and the YOHE rebel leader. Do we actually see that realisation hit?) (There are so many things for him to realise, it's hard to keep track of them all. *g*)
Ye Zun is suddenly proficient at using black energy in the fight against Shen Wei, when earlier we saw him entirely surprised by his own black energy!
I could go either way on that. He has been around powered people his whole life, and his own power is presumably learning (even if he does it via ingestion), so it seems plausible to me that he's acquired competence and is, to some degree, a savent... or he could have spent a couple of months terrifying his soldiers by getting more and more powerful and lethal.
Really, as RJ said on discord, neither Da Qing nor Shen Wei needs to hear "can you be more mature" in response to "I don't want you to leave". Or "if you're like this maybe I won't want you any more", argh, Zhao Yunlan!
I knooooooooow. I do think Zhao Yunlan is having a lot of feelings about leaving them behind, but his way of expressing those feelings is just NO! STOP IT! *thwacks him* ;-p
Btw, when Zhao Yunlan says he's Da Qing's master "now or in the future", in the original he says, approximately, "I am now, and when we see each other again I'll still be". ♥
*sniffles* True from both their POVs, too. <3
And Ye Zun, despite not knowing what a gun even is, has no trouble catching the bullets.
Oh yeah, that's terrifying! (Hm, I wonder if the rebels warned him about the Allied Forces' projectile weapon...)
Also interesting: earlier Zhao Yunlan was trying to activate the wormhole and return home, but now that it's here, he's actually resisting initially, presumably not wanting to leave Shen Wei in the middle of a fight.
Yeah, I think that's absolutely it. Shen Wei and Da Qing are on the ground and vulnerable; Ye Zun is incredibly dangerous. Not the time to abandon them!!
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Yes, that's what I assumed! :D
I assume he's forgotten his birth name, or wouldn't he have told Kunlun? After all, Kunlun did say (something like), "Your parents didn't call you Hei Pao Shi, right?"
Yes, good point! I guess both he and Ye Zun really only remembered childhood nicknames. :(
Whatever the YOHE equivalent of Professor of Biological Engineering was? ;-) Maybe he wanted to start a school.
I always thought teaching wasn't something he really thought of until he found himself doing it, and then he realised he loved it. But of course we don't have any canon on that ...
(I don't think him instructing his men, or teaching other Dixingren to use their powers, would have been the same thing. For one, he'd still have been the Envoy to them, with all the distance and reverence and mythologising that entails, rather than simply their teacher ...)
Though we don't really see that, so maybe not? Narratively speaking, the mind control seems like a bit of an afterthought, really. It doesn't have any implications for the way they fight, for example.
Yeah, true, they could have done a lot more with that if they'd been able to give YOHE a bit more space!
Do you think Ye Zun is ambitious at this stage? I think he's grasping for a way out from under the leader's boot, but I'm not sure I'd term that ambition exactly.
I based it on the rebel chief saying Ye Zun always had these grand ideas, and I feel he has this drive to achieve his goals (even with his revenge against his brother) that I would call ambition.
Oh, interesting! You think it might be a deliberate trap? He does seem super-ambivalent about the leader -- hating him but still serving him, taught that he's beholden to him but also so badly abused.
I'm not sure about "trap" - it seems to me like it's something he thinks of in the moment, when he's being pushed and derided for having no useful ideas - but yeah, I think he's deliberately offering an idea he thinks might hurt the rebel chief.
I wonder how much his illness is the reason he hasn't run away (or maybe he's tried to and been brought back /o\).
I think he probably tried, early on? But his illness is definitely one of the things keeping him from being able to get away. :(
Yeah, I think it's so telling that his hatred is intense enough to break through the mind control -- and it provides an interesting comparison with ep 39, where Changcheng's love for the SID and Chu Shuzhi helps him break out of Ye Zun's mind control.
Oooh, I hadn't thought of it that way, but yeah, that's a fascinating parallel/contrast!
I wonder if this has made the Envoy less intimidating to him -- now he's figured out it's that mouthy kid he threw off a cliff that time. Like, the mask really was a good idea in that regard.
Oh, good thought! Yeah, I could see that.
He really does seem to know in advance. One of the other rebels could easily have told him; the leader wasn't the only one who saw Shen Wei without his mask, right? And that might actually make the rebels even more reconciled to their new leader -- he's the counterpart to the Allied Forces general. Maybe?
I hadn't thought of any of this, but it all makes so much sense! If someone who was there on the cliff told him after he took over (because they couldn't before, when the chief clearly didn't want Ye Zun to know), then the timing works out. And I agree that Ye Zun being the Envoy's counterpart would probably impress the rebels. Also, I guess it depends on how mind-controlled they all were - they may be perfectly happy to follow someone who did what they couldn't and broke free of it. So Ye Zun might not even have to mind-control them all that much himself, at this point?
I can't help feeling that Wang Zheng and Sang Zan's sacrifice has to play into it, too. The situation has crossed over into a deadly conflict for his people in both timezones, and there's no backing away from it.
Yeah, agreed - the situation has changed. But also, he gets so very casual about shooting people, I really wonder what's going on in his head.
Oh! Now I'm wondering when it is he connects the dots between modern-day Ye Zun and the YOHE rebel leader. Do we actually see that realisation hit?) (There are so many things for him to realise, it's hard to keep track of them all. *g*
Hee! When he sees Shen Wei and Ye Zun together (the scene where Ye Zun pretends to cry and beg his brother's forgiveness), he says "he's your brother?" in a tone that (imo) makes it clear he's figured out this is Ye Zun - that could be the moment he realises.
I could go either way on that. He has been around powered people his whole life, and his own power is presumably learning (even if he does it via ingestion), so it seems plausible to me that he's acquired competence and is, to some degree, a savent... or he could have spent a couple of months terrifying his soldiers by getting more and more powerful and lethal.
Yeah, agreed, it could go either way. But I like the idea that even if he has instinctive control over the power he learned from eating the rebel chief, he still needs time to learn to smoothly control black energy in general.
I knooooooooow. I do think Zhao Yunlan is having a lot of feelings about leaving them behind, but his way of expressing those feelings is just NO! STOP IT! *thwacks him* ;-p
Right????? *thwacks him as well*
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I wonder how long they were travelling alone together before they got separated...
I always thought teaching wasn't something he really thought of until he found himself doing it, and then he realised he loved it. But of course we don't have any canon on that ...
Science, then? Some kind of scholarly pursuit? He spends some of the conversation observing the stars.
I based it on the rebel chief saying Ye Zun always had these grand ideas, and I feel he has this drive to achieve his goals (even with his revenge against his brother) that I would call ambition.
*nodnod* That makes sense! I presume most of the grand ideas Ye Zun shared with the chief would be for the chief's benefit, but still.
So Ye Zun might not even have to mind-control them all that much himself, at this point?
He might not have to, but he might do it anyway from insecurity or fear, you know? He has every reason not to trust them, since they followed his tormentor (whether willingly or unwillingly, how would he know?).
But also, he gets so very casual about shooting people, I really wonder what's going on in his head.
I guess when the odds are so weighted against them (two against how many?), he can't afford to hesitate. He's there in place of Shen Wei's soldiers. And he won't let anything happen to Shen Wei. And then... it kind of carries over into modern day when he goes back. /o\
Hee! When he sees Shen Wei and Ye Zun together (the scene where Ye Zun pretends to cry and beg his brother's forgiveness), he says "he's your brother?" in a tone that (imo) makes it clear he's figured out this is Ye Zun - that could be the moment he realises.
I thought that was the moment he realised the rebel chief is Shen Wei's brother, the brother he asked about. But that's not the same as realising the rebel chief is Ye Zun from Dragon City. Ohhh, except that Zhao Yunlan met him in the park in ep 20, so he has seen original!flavour Ye Zun -- white robes, gold mask -- rather than just "disguised as Shen Wei" Ye Zun, who could be using a power to change his face. Okay, never mind. :-)
So what I think is happening (which is what I've always assumed) is he's realising here that Ye Zun and Shen Wei are brothers.
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Yeah, they were still so young when they ran into the rebel leader! And that didn't look like it was in the immediate aftermath of the meteor strike, and we know they've been out on their own since before the meteor ...
Science, then? Some kind of scholarly pursuit? He spends some of the conversation observing the stars.
Something scholarly sounds very right for him!
I presume most of the grand ideas Ye Zun shared with the chief would be for the chief's benefit, but still.
Yeah, I don't think he ever had the option of doing anything about any ideas that didn't benefit the chief in some way.
He might not have to, but he might do it anyway from insecurity or fear, you know? He has every reason not to trust them, since they followed his tormentor (whether willingly or unwillingly, how would he know?).
Yeah, completely agreed! I was mostly just thinking about what might be behind their willingness to accept him as the new chief.
So what I think is happening (which is what I've always assumed) is he's realising here that Ye Zun and Shen Wei are brothers.
I think he's realising multiple things at the same time: Shen Wei's supposedly-dead brother is alive, and is the rebel leader. The rebel leader is Ye Zun. Ye Zun is Shen Wei's brother! - Up until then, I assume he thought of them as three separate people.
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Which is why I was unsure about calling it ambition. It might just have been self-preservation...
Yeah, completely agreed! I was mostly just thinking about what might be behind their willingness to accept him as the new chief.
Oh, right. Good point!
I think he's realising multiple things at the same time: Shen Wei's supposedly-dead brother is alive, and is the rebel leader. The rebel leader is Ye Zun. Ye Zun is Shen Wei's brother! - Up until then, I assume he thought of them as three separate people.
*nodnod* Agreed -- it's a lot to convey with two words. ;-)
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