sid_guardian | Focus on: bb Ye Zun gains his powers, from episode 35

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Focus on: bb Ye Zun gains his powers, from episode 35

Location of scene: Episode 35, 5:42 to 10:59

Summary

Ye Zun returns from his mission to steal the Hallows and kneels before the Rebel Leader to deliver them. The Rebel Leader disparages him, kicks him into the dirt, and reminds him that had the Rebel Leader not taken him in, he'd have died in the wilderness.

The Rebel Leader wonders how to turn the Hallows' power to his own use, then calls for Ye Zun and pulls him up by the collar, saying, "You always have those big ideas, but where are they when I need them?" Ye Zun is shaking throughout, and quickly comes up with an idea when prompted, but succumbs to a coughing fit. When he finally tells his idea, it's that the Rebel Leader use his own dark energy to activate the Hallows.

The Rebel Leader orders him to stand, waves his hand over Ye Zun twice, placing him under his mind control: Ye Zun stops trembling and his body language turns from cowering to the dead-eyed silence of the other rebels standing witness. The Rebel Leader softly says "Want to trick me? Get lost," and Ye Zun goes to stand with the other rebels.

When the Rebel Leader tries Ye Zun's idea, it doesn't work (the Guardian Lantern is unlit), and so he calls the mind-controlled Ye Zun back before him to yell at him. He slaps Ye Zun hard enough to make his mask fall off, then slaps him on the face again. He says it's no wonder Ye Zun's parents died young and his brother abandoned him. But no worries! He'll help Ye Zun find his brother, kill him, and cut him to pieces – and then let Ye Zun have his turn.

Ye Zun goes wide-eyed and blinks before breaking free of the mind control and telling the Rebel Leader to shut up and declaring, "My brother is mine alone to kill." He then ineffectively tries to choke the Rebel Leader.

The Rebel Leader, of course, easily throws off Ye Zun's hands and starts choking Ye Zun instead.

At this point, Ye Zun's powers awaken: he yells, dark energy brewing around his throat, and starts sucking the dark energy from the Rebel Leader, who now finds himself sitting on the ground in front of a standing Ye Zun. Ye Zun's hair is buffeted by wind as it turns from black to gray.

Ye Zun falls to his hands and knees and coughs. He looks up, sees the other rebels pull out their swords (the first action they've taken in the scene), and scampers backwards. Then the other rebels kneel and ask, "Boss! What can we do for you?" One of them offers Ye Zun the familiar golden mask we see him wear elsewhere in the show.

The scene closes with Ye Zun looking at his hands and looking at the dark energy swirling there. He smiles with uncomplicated joy.

Discussion

I picked this scene because it's IMO the most important scene for understanding what's going on with Ye Zun. It's where the audience is told that Ye Zun and Shen Wei are brothers (the cut from Shen Wei saying he had a brother to Ye Zun holding the Hallows box, the first time we get a proper look at Ye Zun's face), and where we get Ye Zun's motivation: he thinks his brother has abandoned him and wants revenge.

We also get to look at the root of his issues – Ye Zun is under the crushing heel of an abusive master, doing the dance of the abused to get out of worse punishment, and then he finally gets his powers in a moment of revenge. While Shen Wei was sparkling under the attentions of the great Kunlun, who valued Shen Wei for himself rather than what he could do, Ye Zun learned that if he was powerful enough, no-one could grind him into the dirt. He dislikes weakness in himself: a lot of his world takeover rampage is motivated by not ever being placed in a position to kneel again and to wipe away the shame of being the Rebel Leader's punching bag.

Ye Zun's blinding white garb is unusual, too. Why would one clothe one of one's band of rebels in white, when laundry is hard to do? He's much cleaner and neater than the other rebels as well. And he got picked up as a little kid who didn't have any Dixing powers. The only explanation I have is that the rebel leader picked up Ye Zun to be his sex slave, which, yeah.

Questions!

1. Do you think Ye Zun was actually trying to trick the Rebel Leader with the plan to activate the Hallows, or was he just saying something to avoid pain?

2. Do you think the Rebel Leader treated the other rebels like this, or was Ye Zun his pet project?

3. Did the other rebels have a choice in following Ye Zun, or did the mind control "transfer" from the Rebel Leader to Ye Zun, as Ye Zun gained his tormentor's power through consumption?

So, come and have your say! Share links to meta, picspams, and related fanworks, new or old! Self-recs are wholeheartedly encouraged. Basically, this is the place for anything you want to say or link to about this scene.

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1. I don't think he was trying to trick the Rebel Leader, I think Ye Zun had no idea how the Tools worked and was making an educated guess. After all, even in the future, Ye Zun STILL has no idea how the Tools work. I think the Rebel Leader was enormously paranoid and worried about someone tricking him or taking away his power, which makes sense, because his power is mostly held through mind control anyway.

2. I always figured that, as the person in the camp who was the youngest, weakest, and had no useful powers, Ye Zun was subject to abuse by everyone in the camp. He was probably made to do all manner of chores, and things of a sexual nature as well. (As he grew up he was also, let's face it, the prettiest.) The only question in my mind would be whether the rebel leader kept him as his personal slave or allowed the others to use him as well. I actually think the latter feels right, because Ye Zun is nominally treated as a 'member' of the rebels, not as the 'personal' property of the leader, which in some ways would actually be a *more* privileged position (ie "don't hurt him or the leader will get mad"). Instead, I think he's probably the camp whipping boy; the lowest man, as it were.

3. Huh, I'd never even considered that the mind control 'transferred'. I always thought that the rebels saw Ye Zun defeat the undefeatable leader and knew immediately that it was submit or die, even before Ye Zun realized what had happened.

I think he's probably the camp whipping boy; the lowest man, as it were.

Yes! That's how it looks like to me, too.

I don't think he was trying to trick the Rebel Leader, I think Ye Zun had no idea how the Tools worked and was making an educated guess.
Good point! I guess he might've hoped the Hallows would've eaten up the Rebel Leader or something, but he definitely didn't have a plan.

Ye Zun is nominally treated as a 'member' of the rebels, not as the 'personal' property of the leader, which in some ways would actually be a *more* privileged position (ie "don't hurt him or the leader will get mad"). Instead, I think he's probably the camp whipping boy; the lowest man, as it were.
Nodnod. This makes a lot of sense. I guess the leader would have priority over him, but yeah, he doesn't seem to be the leader's personal toy.

Thank you for this great post and for starting the discussion! This is such an interesting scene. Even pre-powers, Ye Zun is something else. I wonder how he managed to steal the Hallows by himself? I'm guessing some combination of looking like Shen Wei and bluffing, but if that's the case his bluffing skills were already impressive.

I like the idea that Ye Zun was the rebel leader's special project because Rebel Leader already saw Ye Zun's non-Dixing-power skills that allowed him to pull off the Hallows heist. These skills would have also made Ye Zun a threat to his leadership, which might have been a reason behind the abuse.

My headcanon re: white is that Ye Zun liked cosplaying as a sunflower and playing with light/dark imagery even when he was very young. It connects to his whole belief that there is something pure that can be remade under the mess of the world, if he only gets rid of everything that is wrong. I imagine the discipline of keeping his clothes clean was centering for him while he was being abused. Almost a religious ritual of reinforcing his conviction that the dirt of the world can be washed away to find the pure white underneath.

It is interesting that the other rebels show no hesitation in following Ye Zun. Rather than mind control, I'd prefer to imagine that they were happy with the change of leadership. Ye Zun articulates the vision of getting rid of everything (ie everyone) that is hurting Dixing better than the Rebel Leader did, and is also more charismatic, and does a better job of pretending to like people. I like to think that when he went up against the Rebel Leader the other guys were secretly cheering him on. Maybe very secretly because the Rebel Leader is a piece of work.

Did he have a secret plan to activate his Dixing powers with the Hallows? I have no idea, partly because I still really don't understand what anyone from YOHE thought the Hallows are *for*. What specific thing they were supposed to do and how they were supposed to work. Maybe while Ye Zun was doing his Hallows heist he overheard Fu You and Ma Gui talking about the powers of the Hallows and figured out a way to use them?

I wonder how he managed to steal the Hallows by himself? I'm guessing some combination of looking like Shen Wei and bluffing, but if that's the case his bluffing skills were already impressive.
I think his time as the bottom of the pack made him very good at a certain type of verbal manipulation, and probably also walking in a very inobtrusive way.

My headcanon re: white is that Ye Zun liked cosplaying as a sunflower and playing with light/dark imagery even when he was very young. It connects to his whole belief that there is something pure that can be remade under the mess of the world, if he only gets rid of everything that is wrong.
Oh no, baby sunflower Ye Zun! I think the parents just color-coded the twins when young so it's one of the things that reminds him of his parents?

Maybe while Ye Zun was doing his Hallows heist he overheard Fu You and Ma Gui talking about the powers of the Hallows and figured out a way to use them?
Ooh, that's a good one! Hmm. A very intriguing fic idea?

Do you think Ye Zun was actually trying to trick the Rebel Leader with the plan to activate the Hallows, or was he just saying something to avoid pain?

I don't think he knew anything, but he had to say something and came out with the first thing he could think of.

Do you think the Rebel Leader treated the other rebels like this, or was Ye Zun his pet project?

My theory for why the Rebel Leader picked up Ye Zun is because he sensed his potential to become powerful, and wanted to make use of that power. But Ye Zun didn't come into his powers as a child, so that didn't work out. So I think part of his treatment of Ye Zun is him punishing Ye Zun for not being what the Rebel Leader wanted him to be. But beyond that, Ye Zun is weak and sickly and without a power among a bunch of tough guys, so he's at the very bottom of the hierarchy. I don't think he gets even the dubious privilege of being the leader's pet project.

Did the other rebels have a choice in following Ye Zun, or did the mind control "transfer" from the Rebel Leader to Ye Zun, as Ye Zun gained his tormentor's power through consumption?

I always thought it was fear rather than being compelled.

Yay, glad you like it!

My theory for why the Rebel Leader picked up Ye Zun is because he sensed his potential to become powerful, and wanted to make use of that power. But Ye Zun didn't come into his powers as a child, so that didn't work out. So I think part of his treatment of Ye Zun is him punishing Ye Zun for not being what the Rebel Leader wanted him to be. But beyond that, Ye Zun is weak and sickly and without a power among a bunch of tough guys, so he's at the very bottom of the hierarchy. I don't think he gets even the dubious privilege of being the leader's pet project.
Ooh, that's a very interesting idea! And then Ye Zun gets his powers, and it's more than the Rebel Leader bargained for...

Yes! Exactly. :D

While Shen Wei was sparkling under the attentions of the great Kunlun, who valued Shen Wei for himself rather than what he could do, Ye Zun learned that if he was powerful enough, no-one could grind him into the dirt.

When you put it like that, the juxtaposition is heartbreaking.

1. Do you think Ye Zun was actually trying to trick the Rebel Leader with the plan to activate the Hallows, or was he just saying something to avoid pain?

I don't think Ye Zun was trying to trick the Rebel Leader, and the Rebel Leader also didn't really think Ye Zun was trying to trick him since he tries Ye Zun's idea. The suggestion seems completely improvised, although an argument could be made that something occured to Ye Zun as he was making it. He looks very eager to see the Hallows activated, but, then again, maybe that's just the relief of having a way to avoid the Rebel Leader's abuse for the moment.

2. Do you think the Rebel Leader treated the other rebels like this, or was Ye Zun his pet project?

I'm guessing no. Treating all his followers like that is not the best leadership strategy, mind control powers notwithstanding. Ye Zun, ~~when he's not stealing the most important tools of the the Alliance~~, is perhaps used as a sort of general punching bag.

3. Did the other rebels have a choice in following Ye Zun, or did the mind control "transfer" from the Rebel Leader to Ye Zun, as Ye Zun gained his tormentor's power through consumption?

To my thinking, the rebels following Ye Zue because of the mind control makes the most amount of sense, but I find it more narratively satisfying to think that they made an active choice. I like that there's enough room for speculation, so their reasons can range from the ridiculous (aesthetics) to the more serious (they thought Ye Zun was now too powerful, or that he was their best bet for crushing the Alliance).

When you put it like that, the juxtaposition is heartbreaking.
I know! It's such a delicious contrast.

To my thinking, the rebels following Ye Zue because of the mind control makes the most amount of sense, but I find it more narratively satisfying to think that they made an active choice. I like that there's enough room for speculation, so their reasons can range from the ridiculous (aesthetics) to the more serious (they thought Ye Zun was now too powerful, or that he was their best bet for crushing the Alliance).
I agree it's more narratively satisfying if they made a choice, even if it's just "oh damn this guy is more powerful than the previous most-powerful guy, time to kneel", though Ye Zun did definitely get the original rebel leader's mind control powers.

though Ye Zun did definitely get the original rebel leader's mind control powers

Oh, yeah, definitely. As you said, the only question is whether the mind control powers were in use at that moment.

1. Do you think Ye Zun was actually trying to trick the Rebel Leader with the plan to activate the Hallows, or was he just saying something to avoid pain?

My interpretation is that he just said something to buy time, hoping it might even work. I don't think he really has a clue how the Holy Tools work even in modern day Haixing.

2. Do you think the Rebel Leader treated the other rebels like this, or was Ye Zun his pet project?

I don't think the Rebel Leader would have treated all of the guys like this - after all they were rugged ruffians who actually had some use to him, and might just gang up on him if he annoyed them too much. Ye Zun, though, was probably the punching bag for the entire group. When your leader picks on someone, it's easy to follow suit. He also looks so very different from them, almost as if he is consciously setting himself apart, and that would not go down well. 'Think you're better than us?' - type vibes.

3. Did the other rebels have a choice in following Ye Zun, or did the mind control "transfer" from the Rebel Leader to Ye Zun, as Ye Zun gained his tormentor's power through consumption?

While I do think the mind control transferred, I don't think he knew how to use it straight away. To me, the reaction of the other rebels always read as one where they've seen what this previous underdog can do now, and it's scary, and they never treated him well, so now he's extra scary, so it's like 'please don't hurt us, we'll do anything you want.'

Edited 2020-10-24 15:04 (UTC)

I don't think he really has a clue how the Holy Tools work even in modern day Haixing.

In fairness, nor does anyone else. ;-)

To me, the reaction of the other rebels always read as one where they've seen what this previous underdog can do now, and it's scary, and they never treated him well, so now he's extra scary, so it's like 'please don't hurt us, we'll do anything you want.'

*nodnod* I also wondered whether he'd won leadership by right of conquest, and either didn't know that was a thing, or did know but hadn't previously believed it was something that could apply to him...

To me, the reaction of the other rebels always read as one where they've seen what this previous underdog can do now, and it's scary, and they never treated him well, so now he's extra scary, so it's like 'please don't hurt us, we'll do anything you want.'

Yes, this! And Ye Zun is still cringing away in fear - I wonder how long it took him to really absorb that he's powerful now? (I mean, on some emotional level it looks to me like he never quite did, but for practical purposes at least.)

Another thing that strikes me about this scene is the contrast between the Rebels and the Allied Forces. The Rebel Leader is a thug and a bully, ruling with an iron (and mind-controlling) fist. Meanwhile, the Allied Forces are led by a lord and a lady (who don't seem to be fighters), they have a general, a council chamber where they strategise, they have magical healing ointment, and Ma Gui tries to develop a technological breakthrough that can help them win the war. It's like they're from different eras!

I wonder if that's one of the reasons Ye Zun fits in so badly with the Rebels: he's smart but not strong, he dresses like the enemy, he's related to the enemy. I feel like some of the abuse could be because he's a proxy. He's definitely picked on in his own right for being sickly and unpowered, but perhaps anyone with a grudge against the Black-Cloaked Envoy (for battle losses, or just for being a Dixingren who stands against the Rebels) might use Ye Zun as a punching bag for that anger, by association?

I find the Rebel Leader saying "You always have those big ideas" really interesting, too. Like, has Ye Zun been trying to find his way out from the bottom of the pecking order by making himself useful as a strategist? I wonder what other ideas he might have had, throughout the years.

Like, has Ye Zun been trying to find his way out from the bottom of the pecking order by making himself useful as a strategist? I wonder what other ideas he might have had, throughout the years.

Yes! That makes so much sense to me, and I would love to know more about that.

(Just now catching up on the scene discussions...)

he dresses like the enemy

Good point. I've seen Ye Zun's clothes as an indication that he does have some sort of importance/status/special role to the Rebel Leader, because otherwise the Rebel Leader would've dressed him like everyone else when he grew out of his kid clothes. I agree that the Rebel Leader isn't treating him any better than the others (and may be treating him worse) here, so I've wondered if Ye Zun's relationship with the Rebel Leader has changed over time (e.g., a once-favored pet when he was younger is now viewed as tiresome and useless because he's still unpowered and still has the same nagging health condition that makes him cough).

I find the Rebel Leader saying "You always have those big ideas" really interesting, too. Like, has Ye Zun been trying to find his way out from the bottom of the pecking order by making himself useful as a strategist?

This struck me about this scene, too. It sounds like Ye Zun has been trying to rise in status or prove his value to the Rebel Leader - and from the way the Rebel Leader says it, it also sounds like the ideas he's had didn't really work out. Which raises all kinds of interesting possibilities!

Edited (edit fail) 2020-11-30 02:57 (UTC)

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Focus on: bb Ye Zun gains his powers, from episode 35

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