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sid_guardian2022-04-23 11:11 pm
trobadora) wrote in sid_guardian2022-04-23 11:11 pm
Entry tags:
Focus on: Shen Wei wakes up after 10,000 years
Location of scene(s): episode 35, 29:38 - 34:52
(It's more of a sequence of scenes, but it makes no sense to rip them apart, so I'm going to talk about all of it.)
To recap: After Zhao Yunlan's stay in ancient Haixing, he and Shen Wei have met again in the Hallows-space inside the wormhole. Before they go back to the present, Zhao Yunlan wants to know what happened to Da Qing and Shen Wei. The Hallows-space, conveniently doubling as a cinema, conveniently displays subsequent events in Da Qing's life. Then Zhao Yunlan asks about Shen Wei falling into the abyss.
Shen Wei explains: "I fell into into the crack in the ground, but nevertheless I didn't die. Maybe it was the Hallows' influence, or maybe my fortune came from Ye Zun, like he said."
我落入地缝之中之后，却没有死。或许受到了圣器的影响，又或许就像夜尊说的一样是托了他的福。
And then our scene begins. We flash back to the Dijun Palace:
(Is it just me, or does the palace look brighter than it does in the present?)
Ding Dun reports to the Regent: "Lord Regent, Dixing's power sources are depleting day by day. More and more residents are escaping through the passage to the surface."
摄政大人，现在整个地星的能源供给一日不如一日。越来越多的居民透过通道私逃到地面上。
The third person present - this appears to be the same person Shen Wei meets in episode 16, where he says, "So you're the clerk who replaced Ding Dun" - speculates: "Since ten thousand years ago, the Hallows have gradually scattered. These strange events must be related to the Hallows."
万年以来圣器逐渐散落。看这怪象一定跟圣器有关。
The Regent complains about them making too much of a fuss, and adds: "Ye Zun's behaviour has also changed recently."
最近夜尊也有所异动。
He says he's contacted the humans' supervisory department, and with their permission he's sending Ding Dun to investigate on the surface.
And I have questions. So many questions!
Once Ding Dun has left, the Regent worries: "Ten thousand years ago the Black-Cloaked Envoy worked hard to make it possible to live down here. I can't be the one to ruin that with my old man's inefficiency."
万年前黑袍使他们打拼下的生息之所。总不至于毁在我这老头的任上吧。
The clerk has a different take: "In my opinion, it's only because the Black-Cloaked Envoy was too much of a coward back then that we have to live here at all."
依我看 就是当年的黑袍使。太过退缩 害我们不得不再这里蜗居。
The Regent, at this point in time, is not on board with that kind of talk; he shuts the clerk up with a look and sends him to check on Ye Zun - if Ye Zun escapes, all of Dixing is in trouble.
(This makes me wonder if there were times over the past 10,000 years where Dixing was in trouble because Ye Zun almost escaped - if not, would that idea have been at the forefront of the Regent's mind like this? Damn, I want more Dixing history!)
The scene changes to our usual rocky area aboveground, where Ding Dun and a team of armed Dixing soldiers are searching.
The spot on the ground where Shen Wei is moving from beneath; the soil is fresh and loose like a molehill. *g* When he sits up, all the dirt falls away, face and hair and robe miraculously clean. He looks exactly as he did 10,000 years ago, without his mask and with his hood off.
Back to the Dijun Palace, where the Regent is apparently showing the Envoy around. The Regent is marvelling at the Envoy's return after 10k years, and flatters him in the usual manner, calling him Dixing's great hero (地星的大英雄). Shen Wei looks around curiously, taking in his surroundings.
When the Regent stumbles (deliberately presenting himself as clumsy/overexcited?), Shen Wei catches him.
Shen Wei: "Dijun. Regent. Dixingren. Excellent!"
地君，摄政，地星人。很好！
He's clearly pleased to see modern Dixing, an apparently thriving civilisation - to know that after the war, people returned and rebuilt, the natural disasters and the war that he remembers all far in the past.
The Regent flatters him some more, praising his leadership back then. He must be worrying (and rightfully, despite him being the slimy weasel he is) what a returned Black-Cloaked Envoy will mean for Dixing today, and whether this guy who's mainly known for fighting an ancient war will expect or plan to take control again now.
Shen Wei is fully aware of these considerations, and is quick to forestall them: "At that time I was chosen as leader to seek peace for us all. Solo: It is easy to conquer, but difficult to govern. Your burden is much heavier than mine was then. Every generation has its own leaders. I understand that. So you don't need to worry."
当年大家推举我当首领也不过是为了带领大家谋求和平。打江山易 守江山难。你们的担子比我当年要更重一些。一朝天子一朝臣的道理 本使明白。所以你不必担心。
(The idiom he's using, 一朝天子一朝臣, means "new emperor, new officials", or, a new chief brings in new aides.)
(At that point in time, Shen Wei can't know what the Regent is like. He doesn't know enough about the present-day government to judge it yet, and even if he did, what right does he have to claim leadership? He's essentially an ancient legend come back to life; making it clear from the start that he's not expecting that to give him the right to supersede the present-day government strikes me as perceptive and shrewd as well as ethical, no matter how much we might wish he'd put more pressure on the Regent ...)
The Regent slightly changes the subject: "You said just now you wanted to go over there."
您刚才说您想要去那边。
How long have they been talking, before this conversation we see on screen? Shen Wei has clearly already been given some sort of briefing on the current situation, given his explanation: "Dixingren wanting freedom and escaping to the surface can be excused. But we can't allow them to flaunt their special powers on the surface and cause upheaval there."
地星人渴望自由 私逃地上是情有可原的。可是不能纵容他们在地上 暴露异能 扰乱秩序。
His expression and his voice go hard here - you can tell he remembers Dixingren back then trying to take over Haixing, and the war that ensued. Keeping the peace between Dixing and Haixing is his first priority, just as restoring that peace was back then.
He continues, "Besides, we don't know where the Hallows are now. Therefore I should be stationed over there for some time."
更何况 现在圣器不知所踪。所以本使要在那边驻守一段时间。
Searching for the Hallows seems to be his second priority. I'm not sure why that requires him being in Haixing, though - perhaps by process of elimination, as it's assumed that if the Hallows were somewhere in Dixing, they would have been found?
The Regent says he'll contact the Haixing Supervisory Department so they'll give the Envoy an airtight human identity, and asks what name the Envoy wants to use up there.
The Envoy, of course, gives the name he was given by Kunlun: "Shen Wēi."
沈巍。
The scene changes to the Heavenly Pillar. The Envoy is now wearing his modern robes, though still no mask, and his hood is still down.
Ye Zun, in the face of his brother's return, says: "Seems like the heavens want us to keep fighting each other."
看来是老天要我们继续斗下去。
Shen Wei asks if after 10,000 years, he still has not repented, but Ye Zun doesn't think he has anything to repent for: "Time will prove that you're wrong and I'm right. A kind heart can never be a match for absolute power."
时间终究会证明你是错的，我是对的。空泛的一颗圣心永远比不过 扫平世界的绝对力量。
Shen Wei tells Ye Zun he's planning to go upstairs to protect the world and keep the peace.
Ye Zun: "Stop bragging. You're destined to be as lonely there as I am. Don't forget, you're the Black-Cloaked Envoy. To them, you're an alien."
别说大话了。你去那里注定要和我享有一样的孤独。别忘了，你是黑袍使 是那些人眼中的异类。
I'm fascinated by Ye Zun bringing up his own loneliness here, even if it's only to take a swipe at his brother.
Shen Wei, in return, quotes a friend (Kunlun, presumably): "A friend of mine said once, we Dixingren also love and hate. We are just the same as them.
我的一个朋友说过我们地星人也会爱，恨和感动。我们跟他们其实就是同一种人。
(Side note, can anyone can think of a good way to translate 感动 in this context? I'm not surprised most of the subtitle people threw up their hands ...)
This sounds very like Zhao Yunlan's present-day speech during his public broadcast - if he said something similar back then, Shen Wei's heart eyes during that broadcast gain an additional layer ...
Shen Wei puts up his hood and puts on his mask - it's the new embroidered robe, and the new mask.
"Take care."
保重。
And then we switch to Haixing - a scene indistinguishable from the current day save for the slight sepia tone of the flashbacks. Two Dixingren are robbing a woman. One of them brags about ordinary people being no match for them; the other seems worried, says he's heard the Black-Cloaked Envoy has returned and has come upstairs to keep them under control.
Says the other: "If he really dares to come, tell him to come at me!"
他要是真敢来，你叫他来找我。
Shen Wei, having listened to this, promptly hops (yes, hops!) out of his portal.
Which is fascinating! Because we see him exiting the portal without anyone seeing him, listening in, and then visibly exiting the portal again. Is he still half inside the portal, or can he use his portals invisibly (which, useful!)? And did he then throw up a flashy portal effect again just to make a grand entrance? :D
Shen Wei: "This place is not for you. You better go back."
这里不适合你们。你们还是回去吧。
And he employs another power that I don't recall seeing before, making them vanish. Then he looks around at modern-day Dragon City: "So this is Haixing after ten thousand years."
原来这里就是万年后的海星。
(This really is indistinguishable from the current day, right up to the benches! Also, there's apparently a cineplex, according to the sign on the left. Quite a lot for Shen Wei to take in!)
And we've reached the end of the flashback sequence. :)
Additional questions, on top of the ones listed above:
So, let's talk about this scene! Looking forward to hearing everyone's thoughts. And if anyone has links to related fanworks or meta, please share! ♥
(It's more of a sequence of scenes, but it makes no sense to rip them apart, so I'm going to talk about all of it.)
To recap: After Zhao Yunlan's stay in ancient Haixing, he and Shen Wei have met again in the Hallows-space inside the wormhole. Before they go back to the present, Zhao Yunlan wants to know what happened to Da Qing and Shen Wei. The Hallows-space, conveniently doubling as a cinema, conveniently displays subsequent events in Da Qing's life. Then Zhao Yunlan asks about Shen Wei falling into the abyss.
Shen Wei explains: "I fell into into the crack in the ground, but nevertheless I didn't die. Maybe it was the Hallows' influence, or maybe my fortune came from Ye Zun, like he said."
我落入地缝之中之后，却没有死。或许受到了圣器的影响，又或许就像夜尊说的一样是托了他的福。
And then our scene begins. We flash back to the Dijun Palace:
(Is it just me, or does the palace look brighter than it does in the present?)
Ding Dun reports to the Regent: "Lord Regent, Dixing's power sources are depleting day by day. More and more residents are escaping through the passage to the surface."
摄政大人，现在整个地星的能源供给一日不如一日。越来越多的居民透过通道私逃到地面上。
The third person present - this appears to be the same person Shen Wei meets in episode 16, where he says, "So you're the clerk who replaced Ding Dun" - speculates: "Since ten thousand years ago, the Hallows have gradually scattered. These strange events must be related to the Hallows."
万年以来圣器逐渐散落。看这怪象一定跟圣器有关。
The Regent complains about them making too much of a fuss, and adds: "Ye Zun's behaviour has also changed recently."
最近夜尊也有所异动。
He says he's contacted the humans' supervisory department, and with their permission he's sending Ding Dun to investigate on the surface.
And I have questions. So many questions!
- If this guy later took over Ding Dun's job, what's his job here and now? What's Ding Dun's job, given that he's apparently qualified to lead teams of armed soldiers? Why is the clerk by the Regent's side here, just as he will be over 20 years later?
- What strange events is he referring to? Is Dixing's power depleting in ways that aren't obviously the effect of the Hallows' absence?
- Regarding the scattering of the Hallows, when and how did this happen? From what's said here it sounds like the last time they were all fully accounted for was 10,000 years ago when they were first taken to Dixing, but we know from Zhang Shi that the Guardian Lantern only went out very recently - he speaks of decades, not even centuries (in episode 36) ...
- Ye Zun is apparently a known quantity in Dixing - he therefore can't have been asleep or in stasis. (Poor guy, that's definitely cruel and unusual punishment!) What's he been doing recently that's so unusual for him, and why? Can he feel Shen Wei waking up?
- What's the surface got to do with anything - why is the Regent sending Ding Dun upstairs? How does he know that's where they'll find something?
Once Ding Dun has left, the Regent worries: "Ten thousand years ago the Black-Cloaked Envoy worked hard to make it possible to live down here. I can't be the one to ruin that with my old man's inefficiency."
万年前黑袍使他们打拼下的生息之所。总不至于毁在我这老头的任上吧。
The clerk has a different take: "In my opinion, it's only because the Black-Cloaked Envoy was too much of a coward back then that we have to live here at all."
依我看 就是当年的黑袍使。太过退缩 害我们不得不再这里蜗居。
The Regent, at this point in time, is not on board with that kind of talk; he shuts the clerk up with a look and sends him to check on Ye Zun - if Ye Zun escapes, all of Dixing is in trouble.
(This makes me wonder if there were times over the past 10,000 years where Dixing was in trouble because Ye Zun almost escaped - if not, would that idea have been at the forefront of the Regent's mind like this? Damn, I want more Dixing history!)
The scene changes to our usual rocky area aboveground, where Ding Dun and a team of armed Dixing soldiers are searching.
The spot on the ground where Shen Wei is moving from beneath; the soil is fresh and loose like a molehill. *g* When he sits up, all the dirt falls away, face and hair and robe miraculously clean. He looks exactly as he did 10,000 years ago, without his mask and with his hood off.
Back to the Dijun Palace, where the Regent is apparently showing the Envoy around. The Regent is marvelling at the Envoy's return after 10k years, and flatters him in the usual manner, calling him Dixing's great hero (地星的大英雄). Shen Wei looks around curiously, taking in his surroundings.
When the Regent stumbles (deliberately presenting himself as clumsy/overexcited?), Shen Wei catches him.
Shen Wei: "Dijun. Regent. Dixingren. Excellent!"
地君，摄政，地星人。很好！
He's clearly pleased to see modern Dixing, an apparently thriving civilisation - to know that after the war, people returned and rebuilt, the natural disasters and the war that he remembers all far in the past.
The Regent flatters him some more, praising his leadership back then. He must be worrying (and rightfully, despite him being the slimy weasel he is) what a returned Black-Cloaked Envoy will mean for Dixing today, and whether this guy who's mainly known for fighting an ancient war will expect or plan to take control again now.
Shen Wei is fully aware of these considerations, and is quick to forestall them: "At that time I was chosen as leader to seek peace for us all. Solo: It is easy to conquer, but difficult to govern. Your burden is much heavier than mine was then. Every generation has its own leaders. I understand that. So you don't need to worry."
当年大家推举我当首领也不过是为了带领大家谋求和平。打江山易 守江山难。你们的担子比我当年要更重一些。一朝天子一朝臣的道理 本使明白。所以你不必担心。
(The idiom he's using, 一朝天子一朝臣, means "new emperor, new officials", or, a new chief brings in new aides.)
(At that point in time, Shen Wei can't know what the Regent is like. He doesn't know enough about the present-day government to judge it yet, and even if he did, what right does he have to claim leadership? He's essentially an ancient legend come back to life; making it clear from the start that he's not expecting that to give him the right to supersede the present-day government strikes me as perceptive and shrewd as well as ethical, no matter how much we might wish he'd put more pressure on the Regent ...)
The Regent slightly changes the subject: "You said just now you wanted to go over there."
您刚才说您想要去那边。
How long have they been talking, before this conversation we see on screen? Shen Wei has clearly already been given some sort of briefing on the current situation, given his explanation: "Dixingren wanting freedom and escaping to the surface can be excused. But we can't allow them to flaunt their special powers on the surface and cause upheaval there."
地星人渴望自由 私逃地上是情有可原的。可是不能纵容他们在地上 暴露异能 扰乱秩序。
His expression and his voice go hard here - you can tell he remembers Dixingren back then trying to take over Haixing, and the war that ensued. Keeping the peace between Dixing and Haixing is his first priority, just as restoring that peace was back then.
He continues, "Besides, we don't know where the Hallows are now. Therefore I should be stationed over there for some time."
更何况 现在圣器不知所踪。所以本使要在那边驻守一段时间。
Searching for the Hallows seems to be his second priority. I'm not sure why that requires him being in Haixing, though - perhaps by process of elimination, as it's assumed that if the Hallows were somewhere in Dixing, they would have been found?
The Regent says he'll contact the Haixing Supervisory Department so they'll give the Envoy an airtight human identity, and asks what name the Envoy wants to use up there.
The Envoy, of course, gives the name he was given by Kunlun: "Shen Wēi."
沈巍。
The scene changes to the Heavenly Pillar. The Envoy is now wearing his modern robes, though still no mask, and his hood is still down.
Ye Zun, in the face of his brother's return, says: "Seems like the heavens want us to keep fighting each other."
看来是老天要我们继续斗下去。
Shen Wei asks if after 10,000 years, he still has not repented, but Ye Zun doesn't think he has anything to repent for: "Time will prove that you're wrong and I'm right. A kind heart can never be a match for absolute power."
时间终究会证明你是错的，我是对的。空泛的一颗圣心永远比不过 扫平世界的绝对力量。
Shen Wei tells Ye Zun he's planning to go upstairs to protect the world and keep the peace.
Ye Zun: "Stop bragging. You're destined to be as lonely there as I am. Don't forget, you're the Black-Cloaked Envoy. To them, you're an alien."
别说大话了。你去那里注定要和我享有一样的孤独。别忘了，你是黑袍使 是那些人眼中的异类。
I'm fascinated by Ye Zun bringing up his own loneliness here, even if it's only to take a swipe at his brother.
Shen Wei, in return, quotes a friend (Kunlun, presumably): "A friend of mine said once, we Dixingren also love and hate. We are just the same as them.
我的一个朋友说过我们地星人也会爱，恨和感动。我们跟他们其实就是同一种人。
(Side note, can anyone can think of a good way to translate 感动 in this context? I'm not surprised most of the subtitle people threw up their hands ...)
This sounds very like Zhao Yunlan's present-day speech during his public broadcast - if he said something similar back then, Shen Wei's heart eyes during that broadcast gain an additional layer ...
Shen Wei puts up his hood and puts on his mask - it's the new embroidered robe, and the new mask.
"Take care."
保重。
And then we switch to Haixing - a scene indistinguishable from the current day save for the slight sepia tone of the flashbacks. Two Dixingren are robbing a woman. One of them brags about ordinary people being no match for them; the other seems worried, says he's heard the Black-Cloaked Envoy has returned and has come upstairs to keep them under control.
Says the other: "If he really dares to come, tell him to come at me!"
他要是真敢来，你叫他来找我。
Shen Wei, having listened to this, promptly hops (yes, hops!) out of his portal.
Which is fascinating! Because we see him exiting the portal without anyone seeing him, listening in, and then visibly exiting the portal again. Is he still half inside the portal, or can he use his portals invisibly (which, useful!)? And did he then throw up a flashy portal effect again just to make a grand entrance? :D
Shen Wei: "This place is not for you. You better go back."
这里不适合你们。你们还是回去吧。
And he employs another power that I don't recall seeing before, making them vanish. Then he looks around at modern-day Dragon City: "So this is Haixing after ten thousand years."
原来这里就是万年后的海星。
(This really is indistinguishable from the current day, right up to the benches! Also, there's apparently a cineplex, according to the sign on the left. Quite a lot for Shen Wei to take in!)
And we've reached the end of the flashback sequence. :)
Additional questions, on top of the ones listed above:
- Do you think Shen Wei sometimes regrets immediately going to the surface and not spending more time in Dixing?
- What does the Regent make of the Envoy, in truth?
- We see no shock from Shen Wei about his brother having been trapped inside the pillar for so long - he's clearly already had time to get over that. He also makes no attempt to reach his brother, and shows no surprise at Ye Zun's vicious might-makes-right speech. One wonders what kind of briefing he received about Ye Zun's role over the last 10,000 years, to have him approach him like this ...
- Shen Wei's new mask seems to be modelled after Ye Zun's golden mask in YOHE - do you think that's one of those prop things we're not supposed to think about too closely, or are there in-universe reasons behind it?
- We know from the first encounter with Wu Tian'en that Shen Wei has been awake for over 20 years, since Wu Tian'en knew him back then, so the Shen Wei identity the Regent plans to have set up for him can't be the present Professor Shen, who is officially 32 years old at the start of the drama and would have been under 12 back then. What do you think his first Haixing identity was?
- The Envoy doesn't hesitate to send the two thieves back to Dixing. How much does he know about their situation? Does he care at this point? If he'd come across these same people twenty years later, might he have let them get away?
So, let's talk about this scene! Looking forward to hearing everyone's thoughts. And if anyone has links to related fanworks or meta, please share! ♥
no subject
Re the reunion in the wormhole, every time I get to this part:
SW: Dragon City was built upon the crater caused by the meteorite.
ZYL: No wonder the connection between the underground and the ground is in our city. And the troubles they made on the ground started and ended in our city.
I go, "Yessss! Because it's build on a hellmouth!!" :D :D :D :D :D
And of course Zhao Yunlan's curiosity about the story outweighs any danger of their situation. Of course it does! Hee!
I assume the future deacon is, like, deputy undersecretary or something? Minion to the minion? Is he already on Ye Zun's side, or is the Regent's "go and check on him" the start of his downfall?
I know we've theorised before that the separation of Dixing and Haixing after the war was supposed to be temporary -- why else would Ma Gui have built the two gateways? So the deacon blaming the Envoy for the situation becoming permanent seems unfair.
Has the Regent aged at all in the last x decades? (
Maybe Ding Dun has been angling for a more active role? He doesn't seem particularly suited to bureaucracy. ;-p
At that point in time, Shen Wei can't know what the Regent is like. He doesn't know enough about the present-day government to judge it yet, and even if he did, what right does he have to claim leadership? He's essentially an ancient legend come back to life; making it clear from the start that he's not expecting that to give him the right to supersede the present-day government strikes me as perceptive and shrewd as well as ethical, no matter how much we might wish he'd put more pressure on the Regent ...
Yes, these are all important points. 100% agreed! Plus, for all his seniority, Shen Wei doesn't have any experience of civilian leadership -- he hasn't even witnessed it as an adult. Leading an army and running a country are very different things. Inferring from the kinds of decisions he, Ma Gui or Fu You might have made wouldn't necessarily help him at all.
Shen Wei has clearly already been given some sort of briefing on the current situation, given his explanation: "Dixingren wanting freedom and escaping to the surface can be excused. But we can't allow them to flaunt their special powers on the surface and cause upheaval there."
Maybe on the way back from Haixing, the first time, he saw enough and heard enough from the scouting party and their traversing Dragon City to get to the gateway to start to figure out the situation?
The Envoy, of course, gives the name he was given by Kunlun: "Shen Wēi."
He looks so proud and hopeful! *sniffles*
Keeping the peace between Dixing and Haixing is his first priority, just as restoring that peace was back then.
This makes so much sense for him. He's actually much more flexible about it than I remembered, with his, "Dixingren wanting freedom and escaping to the surface can be excused. But we can't allow them to flaunt their special powers on the surface and cause upheaval there." -- that's not the hardline reputation he seems to have later on, nor the principle the SID initially runs by. I'm imagining him meeting with Zhao Xinci and expecting them to be in accord about this... and finding himself very much mistaken.
Searching for the Hallows seems to be his second priority. I'm not sure why that requires him being in Haixing, though - perhaps by process of elimination, as it's assumed that if the Hallows were somewhere in Dixing, they would have been found?
Maybe there are others currently searching Dixing, and he -- as a person with experience of Haixing -- is assigning himself the other side of things? The waning of resources, and the number of people who've been escaping to Haixing mean the Hallows could easily have been stolen away by someone. Or, alternatively, the Envoy planted that idea to discreetly get rid of the Envoy.
Ye Zun doesn't think he has anything to repent for: "Time will prove that you're wrong and I'm right. A kind heart can never be a match for absolute power."
So, is Ye Zun attributing the kind heart to Shen Wei, here? I'm not sure how that fits with his grudge. Also, the way Shen Wei says, "You've been sealed here for 10k years. It's time to repent" sounds like he's hoping his brother will see reason, so they can work to release him. *sad face*
I'm fascinated by Ye Zun bringing up his own loneliness here, even if it's only to take a swipe at his brother.
Is it necessarily loneliness, or could it be isolation? The original subs say "alone".
This sounds very like Zhao Yunlan's present-day speech during his public broadcast - if he said something similar back then, Shen Wei's heart eyes during that broadcast gain an additional layer ...
Awwwwwww! (And wow, his first few meetings with Zhao Yunlan must have given him a very unpleasant case of whiplash! /o\)
Do you think Shen Wei sometimes regrets immediately going to the surface and not spending more time in Dixing?
I headcanon that he did spend some time in Dixing, catching up on Dixing history and scholarship. (I read a fic once that talked about his reading everything in the Dixing archives, and I love that idea!) (Plus, there must have been enough time for rumours about him to spread among the Dixingren in Haixing, right?) But other than that, no. He has no living friends or connections in Dixing, his presence can only be awkward for him and the Regent, and he's eager to go to Haixing and find Kunlun.
I do like to think he visits from time to time, though, especially at the beginning, to get to know his homeland and his people. And maybe he found enough loyal followers among the ordinary people in the palace that he has unofficial informants to keep him up-to-date with what's going on -- maybe a habit he learned from Kunlun?
What does the Regent make of the Envoy, in truth?
Surprisingly young and idealistic -- ergo, easy to manage. I think he later comes up against Shen Wei's epic stubbornness and ideals, but given their different roles, those don't cause him too many problems. (The seniority thing is so interesting. Shen Wei is an ancient hero, essentially an ancestor, but the Regent looks so much older -- I think it makes it very easy for the Regent to step into an avuncular, patronising kind of role later on, at least when they're in Dixing.)
I find it hard to reconcile this Regent, who is at least making the right noises about managing Dixing, and this bloodless palace, with the fact that Chu Shuzhi and presumably other prisoners are being tortured/whipped. I wonder if the Regent got enough warning about the Envoy's being found that he could clear away all signs of that brutality.
It's only later, in ep 2 when meeting with Chu Shuzhi that Shen Wei talks of Dixing having become a large prison of torment. "Everyone has been tormented into having two faces." So I feel like Shen Wei didn't know, at first, how brutal things were.
(Sorry if this is all over the place. There's so much to roll around in here! ♥)
*showers you with kudos for this great choice of scene and everything you've said about it* <3
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I was wondering about that too. I feel like Ye Zun is somewhat confused about Shen Wei... like, he seems to be aware that Shen Wei's whole personal ethos is emphatically morally good, but it doesn't seem like he ever makes much of a conscious effort to question how that fits (or doesn't) with what he thinks Shen Wei did to him. It sort of seems like he does know Shen Wei is kind, and that just makes it all the more distressing that (he thinks) Shen Wei was unkind to him.
Is it necessarily loneliness, or could it be isolation? The original subs say "alone".
The Chinese quote
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I thought that was part of his grudge, that he thinsk Shen Wei is a hypocrite whose vaunted goodness and kindness extends to strangers but not to his own brother.
Thanks for confirming my feelings about 孤独, I don't remember ever seeing it used without that connotation of loneliness and isolation.
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Haha, thank you! It certainly turned out epically long …
"Yessss! Because it's build on a hellmouth!!" :D :D :D :D :D
Even more literally in the novel, LOL! But yeah, it's a great explanation for why everything is happening right in Dragon City, isn't it?
I assume the future deacon is, like, deputy undersecretary or something? Minion to the minion? Is he already on Ye Zun's side, or is the Regent's "go and check on him" the start of his downfall?
I figure he isn’t on Ye Zun's side yet because Ye Zun doesn't quite have a side at this point. It certainly seems as if he's been inactive for a while and only just starting to become active again, since the Regent has noticed a change. But the clerk's/deacon's opinions certainly make him prime material for Ye Zun's side. That's my headcanon, anyway – I prefer it that way, so that not every person holding such anti-Envoy opinions arrived there via being brainwashed by Ye Zun.
I know we've theorised before that the separation of Dixing and Haixing after the war was supposed to be temporary -- why else would Ma Gui have built the two gateways? So the deacon blaming the Envoy for the situation becoming permanent seems unfair.
And we know the Envoy wasn't the one who signed the treaty, so blaming him is doubly unfair! Even if he was responsible for originally negotiating it (which we don’t know), he's not the one who put it into practice. But the clerk may well be arguing in good faith, based on the historical "facts" he knows. I’d very much like to know how those events look like in Dixing historiography!
Has the Regent aged at all in the last x decades?
Yeah, the Regent's nonexistent ageing is noticeable, and the clerk's and Ding Dun's too! If it were just the Regent, that might be his Dixing power, but as it is, my theory is that the stronger someone’s black energy is, the weirder their ageing gets. (See also Zheng Yi ...)
rheasilvia's SID Timeline says this flashback takes place 40-30 years before canon, but I'm not sure what that timeframe is based on
I don't know either - all we can tell for sure is that it must have happened prior to Shen Wei working with Wu Tian'en, and so must be over 20 years ago.
I'm fascinated that he has pre-existing diplomatic relations with the Haixing authorities. Did he establish them for the sake of Ding Dun's mission, or were they pre-existing? And how were they set up, and with whom?
Very good questions! Hm, we know that only a little later than this, in Dragon City, due to the same events of more and more Dixingren escaping to the surface, the SID was being set up, and they certainly seemed to already know about Dixing, rather than discovering it. My headcanon is that there has been limited official contact and maybe even some degree of trade between Dixing and Haixing, on and off over the centuries, and there's been a Haixing department that knew how to contact Dixing all along, and vice versa.
(I wonder what happened, that they managed to stop the numbers of Dixingren coming to Haixing for years, so that there's been a lull in activity until things pick up again in the present. Is it just the HPS intimidation effect?)
Plus, for all his seniority, Shen Wei doesn't have any experience of civilian leadership -- he hasn't even witnessed it as an adult. Leading an army and running a country are very different things.
Yeah, those are excellent points!
He's actually much more flexible about it than I remembered, with his, "Dixingren wanting freedom and escaping to the surface can be excused. But we can't allow them to flaunt their special powers on the surface and cause upheaval there." -- that's not the hardline reputation he seems to have later on, nor the principle the SID initially runs by.
I wonder if it's always been like that – presenting himself as much more of a hardliner towards the people he's trying to get to stay in line, but much more moderate and merciful when dealing with the people in charge in Dixing?
I'm imagining him meeting with Zhao Xinci and expecting them to be in accord about this... and finding himself very much mistaken.
Yeah, or this – maybe it's Haixing's official attitude that convinced him he couldn’t show any sympathy for the Dixingren in Haixing, so the Haixing officials wouldn’t be tempted to go behind his back …
Maybe there are others currently searching Dixing, and he -- as a person with experience of Haixing -- is assigning himself the other side of things?
That would make sense, yes!
So, is Ye Zun attributing the kind heart to Shen Wei, here? I'm not sure how that fits with his grudge.
I think part of Ye Zun's grudge against Shen Wei is that he thinks Shen Wei is a hypocrite, and him being kind to everyone EXCEPT the person he was most supposed to care for does fit in there.
Is it necessarily loneliness, or could it be isolation? The original subs say "alone".
I agree with
I headcanon that he did spend some time in Dixing, catching up on Dixing history and scholarship. (I read a fic once that talked about his reading everything in the Dixing archives, and I love that idea!) (Plus, there must have been enough time for rumours about him to spread among the Dixingren in Haixing, right?)
That's a good point about time for rumours to spread! Yeah, and I absolutely do think he spent some time catching up on everything in Dixing. I love your idea about him visiting and getting to know Dixing – I wonder if he sometimes went around without his robes, too, incognito. And yes, I very much hope he found some good people in Dixing who'd later keep him up to date and function as informants when things get seriously bad. He does have a way of inspiring loyalty ...
Surprisingly young and idealistic -- ergo, easy to manage. I think he later comes up against Shen Wei's epic stubbornness and ideals, but given their different roles, those don't cause him too many problems.
Yeah, all true. *sighs* And he never does end up truly facing off against Shen Wei; I think on some level he always underestimates him. I wonder what it would take to change that!
I find it hard to reconcile this Regent, who is at least making the right noises about managing Dixing, and this bloodless palace, with the fact that Chu Shuzhi and presumably other prisoners are being tortured/whipped. I wonder if the Regent got enough warning about the Envoy's being found that he could clear away all signs of that brutality.
There's no sign of brutality in the scene where Ding Dun reports, either. I assume there's no obvious brutality going on right there in the middle of the palace most of the time – the Regent is too canny to put on that sort of display on a regular basis. If it's all almost always at least half-hidden, that fits very well with the two-faced comment Shen Wei makes, right?
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But the clerk may well be arguing in good faith, based on the historical "facts" he knows.
As we see later with An Bai's friends (even before they encounter Ye Zun), the Envoy's reputation in modern Dixing isn't one of universal admiration. There's no formal educational system, so how much an average Dixingren knows about Dixing history is a good question! Official histories are probably kept in the archives in the palace, and who knows what kind of unofficial histories circulate. There could be a good deal of myth surrounding the Envoy, setting him up as a hero and/or as fall guy for Dixing's problems, depending on who's recounting the myth.
My headcanon is that there has been limited official contact and maybe even some degree of trade between Dixing and Haixing, on and off over the centuries, and there's been a Haixing department that knew how to contact Dixing all along, and vice versa.
Maybe this was the Haixing Inspectorate's role. Minister Gao credits Ma Gui as being its founder. I agree with the theory that the absolute separation between Haixing and Dixing was supposed to be temporary, and I can see Ma Gui, after the treaty, setting up an institution that would work towards establishing stable relations between Haixing and Dixing. It could be that there were stable relations (even if limited in scope) for a long time but gradually things worsened.
And yes, I very much hope he found some good people in Dixing who'd later keep him up to date and function as informants when things get seriously bad.
I feel like Shen Wei must've spent some time in Dixing over the years, since he's considered one of its three leaders and, at some point, tried to get schools established but couldn't. That seems like something to happen after he'd seen more about how modern Dixing was run, and wanted to make improvements. Also, he got to know Wu Tian'en and others well enough to send them on the mission to Haixing.
I assume there's no obvious brutality going on right there in the middle of the palace most of the time – the Regent is too canny to put on that sort of display on a regular basis.
Maybe the torture sessions that happen in the middle of the palace are for special purposes. Like if the Regent needs to have a showcase to send a message to other prisoners or would-be criminals. Given that the Regent is whipping Chu Shuzhi right at the end of Chu Shuzhi's jail sentence, the Regent must know Chu Shuzhi isn't going to repent. So putting Chu Shuzhi through this right in the middle of the palace could be to put him on display as a warning to others.
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I can see Ma Gui, after the treaty, setting up an institution that would work towards establishing stable relations between Haixing and Dixing
Oh yes, that makes sense to me! It's a bit difficult to believe that an institution like that could last for 10,000 years, but even if it broke up and was re-established multiple times, so long as the knowledge isn't entirely lost in between, it would still functionally come out to the same thing, right? And it could be that things only got worse as Dixing grew less stable, after the Lantenr went out.
Like if the Regent needs to have a showcase to send a message to other prisoners or would-be criminals.
Adopting this headcanon now!
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I was just rewatching the scene when An Bai and co. corner Zhao Yunlan at the pillar and call the Envoy a traitor (ep 16). I think the bit where Zhao Yunlan kicks An Song and discovers he's hardened his lower body links up with the showdown with the Deacon in ep 23 (20:34), also at the pillar.
When they confront the Deacon, Shen Wei says, "So it was you. Our attacker here last time was also you. Blame your power for giving you away." And there's a flashback to Da Qing standing on the Deacon's foot and discovering it's unnaturally hard. I can't think of any other lower body hardness moments (*ahem*), so doesn't "our attacker here last time" have to be about Zhao Yunlan getting cornered? Which would make An Bai and friends in that scene actually the Deacon in disguise? If so, the Envoy's reputation might not be as tattered as it appeared. The bar tender certainly thinks "Hei Pao Shi was here" should be a big enough draw that he can raise his prices... though as an advertising strategy, it doesn't actually work, so... idk.
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ETA: Just watched it again, and wow, I have zero memory of that moment with the little animated sparks or whatever. /o\
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I think I always just assumed Dixingren had much longer lifespans... isn't Chu Shuzhi also a lot older than he looks?
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Oh, that is interesting! I can't recall if canon ever says one way or another, but it would make so much more sense for it to have been intended as a temporary separation while everyone is recovering from the war and building up prosperous societies before integrating again. The total separation thing always seemed a little extreme/short-sighted, though I can see why someone coming off of years of war might prefer it to any alternative. The only thing I wonder about re: that is the Treaty - am I misremembering that it specifies that Dixingren in Haixing are to be returned to Dixing regardless of circumstance? Or maybe the Treaty wasn't supposed to last forever either?
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There are other bits of info, such as SW saying the treaty restricts his powers in Haixing (we don't know if that's a legal or physical restriction), and only the Envoy and the Regent behing officially allowed to freely use the passage between Dixing and Haixing (the passage was created after the treaty was signed, so that may have come later?) but we really don't know much ...
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My headcanon is that over the course of history, how much contact there was between Dixing and Haixing changed a lot. So there were periods where there were ambassadors and regular trade and everything, and periods where there was no official contact at all.
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Regarding the scattering of the Hallows, when and how did this happen? From what's said here it sounds like the last time they were all fully accounted for was 10,000 years ago when they were first taken to Dixing, but we know from Zhang Shi that the Guardian Lantern only went out very recently
It seems like surely they must have been kept someplace very safe, so surely they couldn't have just (oops) gotten "lost" somehow. Surely it must have been a big deal when they disappeared? Were they stolen? By whom, and why??? And how did they end up getting separated? Or was there some kind of natural disaster or... I don't know, some way that they "went missing" without it being obvious that anyone had specifically plotted to take them? This seems like really important information, and it's so weird that everyone is so vague when they talk about it!
Did all the records of what happened to the Hallows get lost somehow, and nobody actually knows anything other than that they're missing? And that they're presumably "scattered" based on... I guess some knowledge people have about what kinds of "strange events" would naturally ensue if the Hallows were scattered? Does their power not weaken if they're taken away from Dixing, only if they're separated from each other? There seems to be a lot of inference going on, but we have no idea what evidence anything is being inferred from...
Ye Zun is apparently a known quantity in Dixing - he therefore can't have been asleep or in stasis. (Poor guy, that's definitely cruel and unusual punishment!)
I don't know that I'd really thought about the implications of this conversation re: Ye Zun before, but you're right, that is... rather disturbing. :/ Not the kind of punishment that would be especially conducive to repentance, either. Though I suppose given his level of power, including mind-control, they may not have had any other feasible options for dealing with him that wouldn't have risked his breaking free and taking over.
(Side note, can anyone can think of a good way to translate 感动 in this context? I'm not surprised most of the subtitle people threw up their hands ...)
Agh, I hate that English doesn't have any equivalent terms for this that are actually clear. "To be moved" and "to be touched" both have literal meanings that make them confusing. Maybe in this case you could just go with something like "have feelings"? But after "love and hate" that seems pretty redundant. I can certainly understand the choice to just leave it out of the translation!
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It seems like surely they must have been kept someplace very safe, so surely they couldn't have just (oops) gotten "lost" somehow.
I wonder about that, actually. I mean, multiple times (when creating a wormhole, when being semi-activated by Ye Zun, etc.) the Hallows rise into the sky on their own – they pretty much seem do do what they want. I wonder how much that was part of why everyone's so vague about what happened to them, because no one is sure whether they were stolen or maybe just suddenly decided to do vanish on their own ... Who knows, Dixing history might be full of weird events surrounding the Hallows, including them moving around on their own.
Does their power not weaken if they're taken away from Dixing, only if they're separated from each other?
That's a really good question! Because they not just disappeared, they apparently were separated (or parted on their own, who knows), and disappeared at different points in time.
I don't know that I'd really thought about the implications of this conversation re: Ye Zun before, but you're right, that is... rather disturbing. :/ Not the kind of punishment that would be especially conducive to repentance, either. Though I suppose given his level of power, including mind-control, they may not have had any other feasible options for dealing with him that wouldn't have risked his breaking free and taking over.
Yeah, it's difficult to see how you could control someone with Ye Zun's level of power, and with his specific abilities, if he wasn't locked up in the pillar. But at the same time, you lock someone who's not exactly well to begin with up in a pillar for an eternity and let him stew in his own hatred and resentment, you can hardly be surprised when he gets even worse ...
Agh, I hate that English doesn't have any equivalent terms for this that are actually clear. "To be moved" and "to be touched" both have literal meanings that make them confusing. Maybe in this case you could just go with something like "have feelings"? But after "love and hate" that seems pretty redundant. I can certainly understand the choice to just leave it out of the translation!
THANK YOU. It's really frustrating! It's not a difficult sentence, but I really can't think of any way to put it into English that isn't either confusing or awkward and stilted or, as you say, redundant. *headdesk*
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Ah, that's a good point. Somehow I hadn't actually thought about the possibility that they just... went off on their own. XD But yeah, they totally could have. Which doesn't really bode all that well for keeping them under control in the future!
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> Ye Zun is apparently a known quantity in Dixing - he therefore can't have been asleep or in stasis.
I don't know that this necessarily follows - all the Regent says is that his behaviour has changed recently, which could be easily explained by Ye Zun waking up. (Perhaps given he was imprisoned in a pillar of the Hallows own making he was more sensitive to the Guardian Lantern being extinguished and woke up faster than Shen Wei did?)
> And he employs another power that I don't recall seeing before, making them vanish.
I think he's used this power before, actually - IIRC he uses it to make eg. Gao Tianyu vanish - if you look at episode 2, timestamp 31:27, there's the same disintegration effect on Gao Tianyu and the same blueish curving lines connecting him to Shen Wei's hand. I think it's his default "bring criminal along but they travel coach rather than first class" power!
> The Envoy doesn't hesitate to send the two thieves back to Dixing. How much does he know about their situation? Does he care at this point? If he'd come across these same people twenty years later, might he have let them get away?
I think he wouldn't have let them get away because of their attitudes - there's no apology, no remorse, no indication that they've been forced into crime because of poor circumstances - they're bragging about being better than Haixingren and that Heipaoshi can't stop them. And certainly it seems at this stage that he doesn't know how brutal the Regent is with his version of "justice", so.
> the Shen Wei identity the Regent plans to have set up for him can't be the present Professor Shen, who is officially 32 years old at the start of the drama and would have been under 12 back then. What do you think his first Haixing identity was?
IDK but this is fascinating to think about! I think something innocuous, probably, perhaps just a well off young man, so that he can adjust to Haixing - I can picture Shen Wei just experiencing the sunlight, going to libraries, discovering Dragon City University, and deciding a few years in that things are perhaps calm enough that he can make a new identity and become a student.
Also, I would like to offer a fanwork! Re Shen Wei's modern mask looking the same as Ye Zun's - I wrote a fic covering this exact topic last year :3
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True, but he talks about him like everyone should know who he's talking about, and I feel like if it were "btw, this guy supposedly in the pillar who hasn't stirred for 10,000 years is suddenly active" it would have been a bigger deal - that he wouldn't have mentioned it so casually, and that the others would have had more of a reaction to it ...
I think he's used this power before, actually - IIRC he uses it to make eg. Gao Tianyu vanish
Oh, you're right, now that you're saying it! Thanks for including the timestamp. I think I didn't connect the two because in that place, he uses that power simultaneously while vanishing into the portal, and I must haave thought it was part of pulling Gao Tianyu into the portal here, rather than a separate thing? If there's another instance, I totally missed that, too. *g*
I think he wouldn't have let them get away because of their attitudes - there's no apology, no remorse, no indication that they've been forced into crime because of poor circumstances - they're bragging about being better than Haixingren and that Heipaoshi can't stop them. And certainly it seems at this stage that he doesn't know how brutal the Regent is with his version of "justice", so.
Yeah, that sounds right to me, that their attitudes make the difference. And we don't even know if he hands them over to the Regent here - lateron, after he knows what the Regent's version of "justice" looks like, I think he'd probably have taken them back to Dixing but not handed them over. Here, I'm not sure.
IDK but this is fascinating to think about!
Right? :D I like to think the same thing - that at that time it would have been something that allows him to get to know Haixing without being put on the spot about having to do anything or play any particular part. A well off young man sounds right to me.
Also, I would like to offer a fanwork! Re Shen Wei's modern mask looking the same as Ye Zun's - I wrote a fic covering this exact topic last year :3
Oh! I knew I was forgetting something! Thank you for linking it, that was definitely lurking somewhere in the back of my head and refusing to come out. *g* It's an excellent fic, and I love the idea of the mask being a memento as much as the lollipop wrapper is!
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or maybe my fortune came from Ye Zun, like he said. 又或许就像夜尊说的一样是托了他的福。
I'm not sure I ever noticed this before. I don't remember, do we actually hear Ye Zun say this--it's implied that he said something about Shen Wei getting all the good fortune for both of them?
the Regent worries: "Ten thousand years ago the Black-Cloaked Envoy worked hard to make it possible to live down here. I can't be the one to ruin that with my old man's inefficiency."
This is one of the few positive moments we see the Regent have, isn't it? If he means it, of course...
Shen Wei, in return, quotes a friend (Kunlun, presumably)...This sounds very like Zhao Yunlan's present-day speech during his public broadcast - if he said something similar back then, Shen Wei's heart eyes during that broadcast gain an additional layer ...
Oh yes, oh dear *sniff* (Again, do we hear Kunlun say that on screen? It reminds me of what Zhao Yunlan says when he first visits Dixing, but of course that hasn't happened yet. There's a lot of Old Haixing we only get by report--I realized that we never actually hear Old Haixing Kunlun say "Xiao Wei," for instance.)
can anyone can think of a good way to translate 感动 in this context?
Oh God, this word is a nightmare to translate in Japanese too. The best I can do is something like "we Dixingren love, we hate, we feel," which is a bit limp.
(The Regent says he'll contact the Haixing Supervisory Department
Can you imagine what a conversation between the Regent and Zhao Xinci would sound like?)
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It sort of rings a bell, but if he did say it I don't remember when/where ... Going to have to try and hunt this down when I have a little time! Agreed on the implication of Shen Wei getting Ye Zun's fortune, which makes sense from Ye Zun's POV ...
This is one of the few positive moments we see the Regent have, isn't it? If he means it, of course...
Yeah, I find it impossible to tell how much he means it, or how much of it is just him trying to hold on to the power he has, but he does come across better/more reasonable here than he usually does!
Again, do we hear Kunlun say that on screen? It reminds me of what Zhao Yunlan says when he first visits Dixing, but of course that hasn't happened yet.
No, we don't hear Kunlun say that! Or, as you say, "Xiao-Wei" either. Which incidentally supports the theory that Zhao Yunlan spent much longer in YOHE than it looks!
The best I can do is something like "we Dixingren love, we hate, we feel," which is a bit limp.
I wonder if you could do something with empathy? Because it's not just feeling things, is it, it's being touched by something/someone outside yourself ... ugh. Language, sometimes it's the worst.
(Fascinating that it's similar in Japanese too!)
Can you imagine what a conversation between the Regent and Zhao Xinci would sound like?
Haha, OMG. That would be hilarious. Though at the time it wouldn't be Zhao Xinci - he's not even the chief of the not-yet-founded SID, much less in Xingdu Bureau. It's presumably either whoever's the Minister at the time (Minister Gao's predecessor) in the Supervisory Department/Inspectorate/whatever we're calling it that was involved in this, or the then-head of the Xingdu Bureau ... not that we know anything about them, other than that they were about to decide to create the SID around that time or a little later. Hey, maybe it wasn't just the surge in Dixingren activity, but also the return of the Envoy, and the Envoy coming to Haixing, that influenced the creation of the SID!
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I just rewatched some of episode 23, and I think he's referring to the bit there where Ye Zun claims to be Shen Wei's benefactor (timestamp: 9:48), and Shen Wei refuses to accept that Ye Zun has anything to do with his awakening ...
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Oh, yes! Good find. That makes a lot of sense. Ow, that is such a bitter little conversation on both sides :(
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This is such an interesting question - the Regent here seems to be, if not principled, then at least taking a reasonably firm stance pro HPS (though, granted, this is before HPS is literally in front of his face again; but also, he has nothing specific to gain from being in favour at this stage, unlike some of the obvious bootlicking later) and I wonder how this tallies with his later behaviour towards Shen Wei.
Damn, I want more Dixing history!
Such a mood. I keep making stuff up, but it would really have been nice to have a little bit more canon to build on.
At that point in time, Shen Wei can't know what the Regent is like. He doesn't know enough about the present-day government to judge it yet, and even if he did, what right does he have to claim leadership? He's essentially an ancient legend come back to life; making it clear from the start that he's not expecting that to give him the right to supersede the present-day government strikes me as perceptive and shrewd as well as ethical, no matter how much we might wish he'd put more pressure on the Regent ...
Exactly this! I've seen several takes arguing that Shen Wei should've done more for Dixing, politically speaking, but his position really isn't suited for that. He's completely out of his own time, lacks all the context and as far as we know has never done any non-war-related governing/leading - why would he seize power now? Not to mention that, as you say, it would be deeply ethically dubious to do so, simply on the strength of his power. Which I think Shen Wei is always well aware of.
Keeping the peace between Dixing and Haixing is his first priority, just as restoring that peace was back then.
As principled as it is, it does make me sad for him. Always duty, and (at least until Zhao Yunlan), no real reason to imagine or want for more enough to consider doing something else.
Do you think Shen Wei sometimes regrets immediately going to the surface and not spending more time in Dixing?
Yes, I think so. Not on a personal level - I think he's pretty content living in Haixing, and his university work, and of course he's searching for Kunlun - but on an ideological level. Part of the criticism leveled at Heipaoshi by some Dixingren is that he doesn't know how they live, doesn't identify with them, and while I'm not sure that's entirely true, I do think Shen Wei realises just how far apart his age and current circumstances pull him from the average Dixingren. Staying in Dixing for a while longer might have mitigated that a little.
(Sidenote: I've always been confused about whether he didn't stay in Dixing for a little while first, given the whole thing with Wu Tian'en's team, which seemed to imply to me that he sent them to Haixing while still in Dixing himself; but maybe I understood that wrong.)
What does the Regent make of the Envoy, in truth?
Question for the ages! I haven't figured it out, though I'm also not sure the Regent entirely knows himself. All Dixingren do seem to have a knee-jerk 'Heipaoshi!!' awe reaction (presumably having grown up with stories of the war hero?), even those who don't like him. So I wouldn't be surprised if the Regent has some of that in these early scenes, even while his brain is already ticking away in the background wondering what this will do to the balance of power. I can also imagine him being a little, hmm, not necessarily contemptuous of Shen Wei's youth and lack of harshness, but perhaps surprised by it in a 'I can use this' way?
We see no shock from Shen Wei about his brother having been trapped inside the pillar for so long - he's clearly already had time to get over that. He also makes no attempt to reach his brother, and shows no surprise at Ye Zun's vicious might-makes-right speech. One wonders what kind of briefing he received about Ye Zun's role over the last 10,000 years, to have him approach him like this ...
Honestly, this is one of the details that to me argue for Shen Wei not having been entirely out of it the entire 10,000 years because it's so inconsistent. In the entire modern day arc, starting here, Shen Wei doesn't really seem to care about Ye Zun almost at all. He approaches him with regret, but mostly as an enemy. Whereas the last scene in YOHE still has him desperately trying to save Ye Zun, and I can't really see Shen Wei's character being such that just some briefing would immediately dissuade him from that without checking it out for himself. I don't know, it's tricky.
What do you think his first Haixing identity was?
I have no answer to this, but I never even thought of that! Hmmm.
The Envoy doesn't hesitate to send the two thieves back to Dixing. How much does he know about their situation? Does he care at this point? If he'd come across these same people twenty years later, might he have let them get away?
I presumed the guy bragging about people being no match for his powers made him deal with them so decisively, since he previously said it's only troublemakers he intends to deal with to keep the peace. That's generally how I read his Envoying - as long as a Dixingren living in Haixing doesn't make trouble he won't go out of his way to deport them, but once they do, he's pretty firm about it until the events of the show (as the Treaty demands).
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Hm, it's one thing to align himself with a legend who doesn't challenge his actual rule, vs. dealing with a real-life person with vast sway over people's minds. The legend can be instrumentalised in his favour in ways the real person can't. But yeah, I find it so interesting that he comes across so much more reasonable than usual here!
I keep making stuff up, but it would really have been nice to have a little bit more canon to build on.
Right? I appreciate everyone who plays with those themes in fanfic, but I still do wish we had more canon.
I've seen several takes arguing that Shen Wei should've done more for Dixing, politically speaking, but his position really isn't suited for that. He's completely out of his own time, lacks all the context and as far as we know has never done any non-war-related governing/leading - why would he seize power now? Not to mention that, as you say, it would be deeply ethically dubious to do so, simply on the strength of his power. Which I think Shen Wei is always well aware of.
Yeah, 100% agreed. I've seen some criticism of Shen Wei on the grounds that he didn't do things I personally strongly feel would be unethical, ill-advised and OOC. *g* And that's a very good point about having no non-war governing experience.
As principled as it is, it does make me sad for him. Always duty, and (at least until Zhao Yunlan), no real reason to imagine or want for more enough to consider doing something else.
He's hoping to meet Kunlun again, at least. And when he does get adjusted to Haixing he finds things to enjoy there - his whole professor gig is basically a hobby, not a duty, after all.
Part of the criticism leveled at Heipaoshi by some Dixingren is that he doesn't know how they live, doesn't identify with them, and while I'm not sure that's entirely true, I do think Shen Wei realises just how far apart his age and current circumstances pull him from the average Dixingren. Staying in Dixing for a while longer might have mitigated that a little.
Yeah, that's what I feel as well.
(Sidenote: I've always been confused about whether he didn't stay in Dixing for a little while first, given the whole thing with Wu Tian'en's team, which seemed to imply to me that he sent them to Haixing while still in Dixing himself; but maybe I understood that wrong.)
I can also imagine him being a little, hmm, not necessarily contemptuous of Shen Wei's youth and lack of harshness, but perhaps surprised by it in a 'I can use this' way?
Yeah, that sounds about right to me. And also glad about it because if he'd ever thought about it before, he'd probably have thought HPS was way more of a stereotypical tough-guy warrior ...
Honestly, this is one of the details that to me argue for Shen Wei not having been entirely out of it the entire 10,000 years because it's so inconsistent. In the entire modern day arc, starting here, Shen Wei doesn't really seem to care about Ye Zun almost at all. He approaches him with regret, but mostly as an enemy. Whereas the last scene in YOHE still has him desperately trying to save Ye Zun, and I can't really see Shen Wei's character being such that just some briefing would immediately dissuade him from that without checking it out for himself. I don't know, it's tricky.
Yeah, I feel you on that. I think being somewhat aware, or even periodically awake, and witnessing Ye Zun's slide into further darkness, would make sense.
I have no answer to this, but I never even thought of that! Hmmm.
If you ever think of something, I'd love to hear about it!
I presumed the guy bragging about people being no match for his powers made him deal with them so decisively
Yeah, that makes sense to me!
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Insert the usual 'I really wish we'd got a little more background/backstory for him' whining here :D
He's hoping to meet Kunlun again, at least. And when he does get adjusted to Haixing he finds things to enjoy there - his whole professor gig is basically a hobby, not a duty, after all.
Yes, true. He does carve out a pretty nice niche in Haixing - I'm just not convinced that was his plan, or even something he specifically hoped for at this point in time.
if he'd ever thought about it before, he'd probably have thought HPS was way more of a stereotypical tough-guy warrior ...
It'd be the most obvious assumption, I think. And many Dixingren don't seem to see any facets to the Envoy even during the main plot arc, so it's not like Shen Wei goes out of his way to show off other sides of himself.
If you ever think of something, I'd love to hear about it!
I suspect he didn't immediately dive into a Haixingren job, given that he has quite a lot of learning and acclimatising to do. He probably spent a lot of time in the library, and roaming through Dragon City and getting familiar with the place. Maybe building up relations with the Yashou, since at least Ying Chung and Fourth Uncle (do we ever get a name for him??) seem to know him reasonably well.
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*whines with you*
He does carve out a pretty nice niche in Haixing - I'm just not convinced that was his plan, or even something he specifically hoped for at this point in time.
No, agreed, I don't think he was looking for anything of the sort, other than finding Kunlun again.
I suspect he didn't immediately dive into a Haixingren job, given that he has quite a lot of learning and acclimatising to do. He probably spent a lot of time in the library, and roaming through Dragon City and getting familiar with the place. Maybe building up relations with the Yashou, since at least Ying Chung and Fourth Uncle (do we ever get a name for him??) seem to know him reasonably well.
Oooh, that's a great idea, I love the thought of him with the Yashou! (No, no name for Fourth Uncle, poor guy. *g*)
I agree about spending a lot of time getting to know modern-day Haixing. I wish we could have seen some of that!
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I do have a bit of an 'what actually is going on with the Yashou?' agenda, but... we know even less about them than we know about Dixing from show canon. Pretty much just a blank canvas, and those are intimidating.
I agree about spending a lot of time getting to know modern-day Haixing. I wish we could have seen some of that!
I would absolutely watch/read an entire series about Shen Wei encountering Modern Life (TM). He's clearly adaptable and competent enough there wouldn't be too much embarrassment (my usual problem with this kind of storyline), and there'd be a lot of fun '... but why, how did this happen, what are people doing' moments. Also, him at university is still a concept I want someone to explore in depth...
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He's clearly adaptable and competent enough there wouldn't be too much embarrassment (my usual problem with this kind of storyline)
Yes! This! I have a huge embarrassment squick, and I loathe fish-out-of-water humour, so this kind of narrative is usually not for me, but I absolutely want to see Shen Wei meeting modern Haixing without those things! And then deciding to go to uni, and actually being a student, after/while also being Hei Pao Shi ... I want all of that!
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Also, your icon is gorgeous. ♥
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