Scene discussion: Ye Zun and Shen Wei fall into the abyss (episode 35)

[trobadora]

Location of scene: episode 35, 22:52 - 25:31

Prior to this, young Shen Wei had to watch Kunlun being sucked into the sky by the Hallows, and Zhao Yunlan has reunited with present-day Shen Wei inside the wormhole. Before they return to the present, Zhao Yunlan wants to watch how the story ended ...



... and our scene begins:

Shen Wei and Ye Zun are reeling a bit from what just happened; everyone else still lies unconscious.



Ye Zun speaks very quietly - not sure if Shen Wei can hear him:

在哥哥心中，终穷还是外人更重要一些。
"Brother, to you, others are more important than me."

And then he continues, just thinking to himself:

可在我心里，哥哥意外的任何人都不过是沙粒芥子。 自从你当年离我而去，我就戴上了这个面具，就为了不想看到这张和你一模一样的脸。
"But to me, anyone else is just dust compared to you, brother. Ever since you left me behind back then, I've been putting on this mask, because I don't want to see this face that looks exactly the same as yours."

While Ye Zun has been internally monologuing, Shen Wei has climbed to his feet and is facing his brother. Ye Zun makes to attack his brother - and is immediately stopped by a black energy effect strong enough that Shen Wei moves to shield himself from it.



Ye Zun, faced with the Hallows pulling at him, reaches out and calls for his brother:

哥！ 救我！
"Brother! Help me!"

Shen Wei - likely remembering Ye Zun's previous ruse during their fight, where he'd pretended to regret things only to then attack - hesitates.



But he doesn't hesitate for long. Shen Wei has already watched one person being torn away from him by the Hallows, and now he's faced with it happening again. Of course he rushes to grab Ye Zun's hand:



They're both visibly straining to hold on to each other:



And then the ground beneath Ye Zun begins to split, and Shen Wei loses his grip on his brother:



Shen Wei can only grasp at air and then stare as Ye Zun is ripped away and falls into the newly-formed abyss:



But it doesn't stop there; Shen Wei's terrible day is not yet over. Suddenly he flinches - something is happening to him. The Hallows' power seems to have latched on to him as well! He lets out a strained sound.

Some Dixingren soldiers appear then, calling for Hei Pao-daren - they seem to be straining and not able to approach. Shen Wei looks back at them over his shoulder and tells them:

接下来 就交给你们了。
"From now, it's over to the rest of you."

And then the ground begins to split under his feet as well ...



The last we see is Shen Wei falling into the abyss as his men call for him.

---

There are two things in particular I want to talk about for this small scene.

Ye Zun's feelings for his brother

• When Ye Zun explains why he's wearing a mask - because he can't stand having a face that looks just like his brother - do you think he's being truthful about his reason? Are there other reasons?


• There's a lot of dramatic irony in the fact that Ye Zun claims to wear the mask to avoid looking like his brother - but his brother, of course, also wears a mask. When did Ye Zun find out about Hei Pao Shi being his brother? How did he feel when he saw his brother wearing a mask, just like him?


• When Ye Zun calls out for Shen Wei to save him, what's going on in his head? Does part of him still instinctively reach out for his brother, or is it a more calculated move?


• This contrast/parallel: how perfect is this? Second chances!
  

Shen Wei falling into the abyss:

• So, in the span of a few minutes, Shen Wei has two important people torn from him, in parallel and contrasting ways: both taken from him by the Hallows; one sucked into the sky, the other pulled into the earth. And then the Hallows are pulling on him as well - and instead of resisting as hard as he can, he seems to be more or less accepting his fate. Do you think he could have resisted the Hallows' pull? (Zhao Yunlan and Ye Zun couldn't, but Shen Wei could surely at least have tried harder ...)


• What is going on in Shen Wei's head in this moment? Is he choosing to follow his brother, or is he just giving up? What does he think falling into the abyss will mean? Does he expect them to die?


• For what it's worth, I think he's deliberately choosing to let go. He couldn't keep Kunlun from being taken by the wormhole, and couldn't follow him - he was left behind. And he couldn't keep Ye Zun from being taken by the abyss, but he can follow him, let himself be drawn into the ground as well. If he fights the Hallows' pull and wins, all he's getting is being left behind twice over. It's reckless, because he can't know what awaits them down there, or if either of them survive, but I think to him, following Ye Zun is better than just standing there and watching it happen and doing nothing. It's worth taking a risk on.


• If it is a decision, Shen Wei decides to leave his people behind rather quickly. Well, with Ye Zun gone, the rebel leader is defeated, and Shen Wei isn't needed to protect people from him any more. He probably thinks they can do fine without him. (And they do, from what we can tell, for 10,000 years, until the Guardian Lantern extinguishes.) So he's free to do the reckless, selfish thing if he wants.


• And I'm not sure what role he'd have played if he'd stayed around. He's a war leader, not a peacetime ruler. If he'd stayed, if he'd led his people back to Dixing himself - would it have made a difference? Would the world be different, ten thousand years later? How would he be different? If anyone has thoughts about that, I'd love to hear them!


• I can't help but wonder what the scene looks like to Shen Wei's men. What do they think happened? Do they think the Envoy is leaving them willingly, or do they think he's being taken? Do they think he's dying? Do they expect him to eventually return?
  
  For context - in the scene following this, where Ma Gui and Fu You and an unknown Dixing representative sign the Guardian treaty, and Ma Gui gives the Hallows to Dixing, Ye Zun being trapped in the energy seal, and the energy seal needing the Hallows, is already known to them all. But even though Shen Wei followed his brother into the seal, his fate seems to be entirely unknown. (Did the Hallows deliberately hide Shen Wei?)


• From the department of parallels: Shen Wei couldn't follow Kunlun into the wormhole just prior to this scene; he can and does follow Ye Zun into the ground, willingly or not. And he will, ten thousand years later, follow Zhao Yunlan into the wormhole after all ...

Come talk to me about this scene! ♥

Comments

[nnozomi]

What a neat thoughtful post.
When Ye Zun explains why he's wearing a mask - because he can't stand having a face that looks just like his brother - do you think he's being truthful about his reason? Are there other reasons?
I feel like a lot of it must be just the same reason as Shen Wei--not to let other people see his feelings. And in Ye Zun's case especially, not to look pretty and vulnerable and exposed--to get a little more control over what people see when they look at him.

I agree that Shen Wei deliberately chooses to let himself fall, for all the reasons you state. I wonder if he thought he would be ending up with Ye Zun, wherever that might be?

also, I know it's the hair and the costume partly, but how does he look like TWO COMPLETELY DIFFERENT PEOPLE.

[trobadora]

Thank you so much!

I feel like a lot of it must be just the same reason as Shen Wei--not to let other people see his feelings.

Ha, yeah, another parallel between them, despite their vastly different circumstances! I think you're right, he wouldn't have wanted to look pretty and vulnerable. I do wonder what the rebel leader's reason was for letting him wear that mask ...

I wonder if he thought he would be ending up with Ye Zun, wherever that might be?

I think he probably did, yeah. And then instead they were separated for 10,000 years! Bad hallows, no cookie.

(OH. It just occurs to me that, given the parallel between Shen Wei following Ye Zun into the ground here, and Shen Wei following Zhao Yunlan into the wormhole 10,000 years later, that he would have had very real reasons to be afraid that jumping after Zhao Yunlan would not bring them together. And he did it anyway. Talk about a leap of faith.)

also, I know it's the hair and the costume partly, but how does he look like TWO COMPLETELY DIFFERENT PEOPLE.

RIGHT???? It's not jsut the hair and the costume, it's just as much or more the very different facial expressions that make them look much less alike than they should. For example, when they're straining to hold on to each other and they're both grimacing, but in completely different ways! It's seriously impressive.

[awanderingcoyote]

What a lovely write-up for this moment in the series!!

But he doesn't hesitate for long. Shen Wei has already watched one person being torn away from him by the Hallows, and now he's faced with it happening again. - This part was always so heart-rending!

When Ye Zun explains why he's wearing a mask - because he can't stand having a face that looks just like his brother - do you think he's being truthful about his reason? Are there other reasons? - What an excellent question! I feel there's perhaps a kernel of truth when he says that. Though I don't think it's hatred, per se, but more like anguish/betrayal feelings.

There's a lot of dramatic irony in the fact that Ye Zun claims to wear the mask to avoid looking like his brother - but his brother, of course, also wears a mask. When did Ye Zun find out about Hei Pao Shi being his brother? How did he feel when he saw his brother wearing a mask, just like him? - Definitely dramatic irony throughout the twins reuniting. Being a twin (though not identical) I imagine there was probably the whole 'i can never have anything that's just mine feeling!!!' going on there XD But you know, interlaced with betrayal and anguish!

When Ye Zun calls out for Shen Wei to save him, what's going on in his head? Does part of him still instinctively reach out for his brother, or is it a more calculated move? - I always definitely read this as an instinctive part of him still loved his brother and wanted his brother to love him.

So, in the span of a few minutes, Shen Wei has two important people torn from him, in parallel and contrasting ways: both taken from him by the Hallows; one sucked into the sky, the other pulled into the earth. And then the Hallows are pulling on him as well - and instead of resisting as hard as he can, he seems to be more or less accepting his fate. Do you think he could have resisted the Hallows' pull? (Zhao Yunlan and Ye Zun couldn't, but Shen Wei could surely at least have tried harder ...) - Yes, for sure read this as accepting his fate. The whole 'I have no will to continue' sort of vein. Or, I imagine, he hoped wherever he ended up would do just that.

And I'm not sure what role he'd have played if he'd stayed around. He's a war leader, not a peacetime ruler. If he'd stayed, if he'd led his people back to Dixing himself - would it have made a difference? Would the world be different, ten thousand years later? How would he be different? If anyone has thoughts about that, I'd love to hear them! - This is an excellent question!!! I could see it going two ways - yes, it would have helped and of course, no, it wouldn't. I lean towards no-ish. Simply because he would have been dealing with the tragedy of losing both Kunlun and Ye Zun and that's a lot to unpack. Add on top the stress of governing/leading/etc and even the formable HPS would have found it difficult. Or so my brain tells me XD

I can't help but wonder what the scene looks like to Shen Wei's men. What do they think happened? Do they think the Envoy is leaving them willingly, or do they think he's being taken? Do they think he's dying? Do they expect him to eventually return? - I feel like they probably thought he had died. Not willingly, perhaps, but definitely as someone who knew his fate was coming to an end (to their eyes) as often happens with soldiers.

(Did the Hallows deliberately hide Shen Wei?) - I think so. Perhaps they knew that Ye Zun wouldn't stay suppressed for ever and were all: Welp, here's our backup plan (HPS).

What an excellent post concerning this particular scene!!! :D AHhh!! Thank you so much for sharing!!!

[trobadora]

Thank you so much!

Though I don't think it's hatred, per se, but more like anguish/betrayal feelings.

Yeah, I don't think Ye Zun knows how to process his own feelings; they all get turned into hatred because that's easier to deal with for him ...

I imagine there was probably the whole 'i can never have anything that's just mine feeling!!!' going on there XD But you know, interlaced with betrayal and anguish!

Yes, all of that! That completely rings true.

The whole 'I have no will to continue' sort of vein. Or, I imagine, he hoped wherever he ended up would do just that.

Personally I think it's less him having no will to continue, and more him not being willing to put more effort into staying when there's a chance he can follow Ye Zun. I mean, Ye Zun was just stretching out a hand towards him, and then holding on to him, and it has to feel to him like they're a moment away from a reconciliation ... even if that's not what actually happens (ouch), he's probably hoping for it. If he can just get to Ye Zun ...

I could see it going two ways - yes, it would have helped and of course, no, it wouldn't. I lean towards no-ish. Simply because he would have been dealing with the tragedy of losing both Kunlun and Ye Zun and that's a lot to unpack. Add on top the stress of governing/leading/etc and even the formable HPS would have found it difficult. Or so my brain tells me XD

Yeah, it would be very difficult! Especially if he couldn't reconcile with Ye Zun after all and had his hopes dashed again. (I think right at that early point, Ye Zun might have been reachable, unless being trapped in the pillar triggered all his worst panicky instincts, which it well might have even bnefore the effects of long-term imprisonment kicked in.) And on the political side, I honestly don't know how much difference Shen Wei could have made. We know nothing about Dixing at this time, so it's entirely possible the people back then did everything right and really didn't need him at all. (Whereas they definitely need him 10,000 years later!)

[awanderingcoyote]

And on the political side, I honestly don't know how much difference Shen Wei could have made. We know nothing about Dixing at this time, so it's entirely possible the people back then did everything right and really didn't need him at all. (Whereas they definitely need him 10,000 years later!) - I agree that even if he had been around I'm not sure he'd have been able to make a difference. He's one person, and while very powerful, would still find it hard to go against political clout if it's against him.

Personally I think it's less him having no will to continue, and more him not being willing to put more effort into staying when there's a chance he can follow Ye Zun. I mean, Ye Zun was just stretching out a hand towards him, and then holding on to him, and it has to feel to him like they're a moment away from a reconciliation ... even if that's not what actually happens (ouch), he's probably hoping for it. If he can just get to Ye Zun ... - Yes! I can definitely see this as well. Definitely, reconciliation possibilities with how much Ye Zun reached out/held onto him, which shows he doesn't necessarily *hate* Shen Wei as he says he does XD

I still find it pretty amazing how much of a difference he puts into his Shen Wei/Ye Zun and the mixture of SW and HPS. The acting talent he has! Seriously! To make all of them feel like their own individual full-fledged person is just amazing!!!

Akdakslfjsasgjkaldjfs. This show. I will never be over it! XD XD XD

[trobadora]

Definitely, reconciliation possibilities with how much Ye Zun reached out/held onto him, which shows he doesn't necessarily *hate* Shen Wei as he says he does XD

Yeah ... I always wondered what might have happened if Shen Wei had managed to hold on to Ye Zun here.

I still find it pretty amazing how much of a difference he puts into his Shen Wei/Ye Zun and the mixture of SW and HPS. The acting talent he has! Seriously! To make all of them feel like their own individual full-fledged person is just amazing!!!

It's incredibly impressive! Zhu Yilong manages to embody his characters so perfectly, they end up incredibly different from each other, and from him. Ye Zun and Shen Wei, and Ye Zun impersonating Shen Wei, are a perfect microcosm of that. This drama is SO good!

[elenothar]

Don't mind me, I just got terminally distracted by that cap of the side profile of Shen Wei screaming as he's trying to keep Ye Zun from falling because that scene always gets me.

I do agree that Shen Wei let himself fall - I think in the hopes of following Ye Zun to wherever he was pulled - but I don't think he could've resisted the pull of the Hallows, even if he'd tried harder. The Hallows do like their parallelism, and given the time loop implications, Shen Wei needed to be there in the future.

If it is a decision, Shen Wei decides to leave his people behind rather quickly.

Another point here is that going by pure show canon, there's nothing tying him to his people beyond duty. He clearly cares about being a good leader and saving as many of them as possible, but he's not shown to have any personal relationship with anyone other than Kunlun. Now, I like to believe that that's a time constraint issue and it just wasn't shown because that would be terribly lonely and I don't generally subscribe to the idea that Shen Wei never sought out anyone else ever, but purely by what's on screen... there isn't much holding him there. Except duty, which tbf, Shen Wei does hold pretty sacrosanct, but he's had the absolute worst day after all.

If he'd stayed, if he'd led his people back to Dixing himself - would it have made a difference? Would the world be different, ten thousand years later? How would he be different?

Fascinating questions! We don't really have enough context to judge this, but going out on a limb, I'd say that unless Shen Wei is literally immortal, I can't see his presence then making that much difference to 10k years later. The first question that came to mind was what Shen Wei thinks of monarchy - the Dijun always felt a little incongruous to me in the show... Also, places of learning, I bet he'd have tried to establish some/more than there were and maybe that would've made a difference. Then again, we really don't know what Dixing did or didn't have in those 9.9k years.

Do they think he's dying? Do they expect him to eventually return?

I think you'd probably get two camps here - the realist 'look, he was literally buried under the earth, he's dead' camp and the 'but it's Heipaoshi! He's beaten terrible odds before' camp. Time then eventually seemed to prove the former right.

[trobadora]

I just got terminally distracted by that cap of the side profile of Shen Wei screaming as he's trying to keep Ye Zun from falling because that scene always gets me.

It's an amazing scene! I didn't even remember that particular moment with Shen Wei shouting with effort, but I'm so glad I was able to cap it!

Another point here is that going by pure show canon, there's nothing tying him to his people beyond duty.

Oh, OUCH! Yeah, agreed, I like to believe we just don't get to see more of how he interacts with others, but either way it's canon that he doesn't have any close connections. He's lonely when he meets Kunlun, and feels like no one really sees him as a person. Which I think isn't because Shen Wei never sought anyone out, but mainly because of the distance his position as a leader brings with it ...

there isn't much holding him there. Except duty, which tbf, Shen Wei does hold pretty sacrosanct, but he's had the absolute worst day after all.

Yeah, and with the war essentially over, Shen Wei probably feels that he's done his duty and isn't needed any more, regardless of how everyone else feels about it. (He wouldn't still be a much-loved hero 10,000 years later if people hadn't cared!)

We don't really have enough context to judge this, but going out on a limb, I'd say that unless Shen Wei is literally immortal, I can't see his presence then making that much difference to 10k years later.

Yeah, that's a very good point! We don't have any indication of what Dixing was like back then after they rebuilt, with the Hallows to fuel it - they may well have had a great society down there with nothing that needed Hei Pao Shi at all. Like you say, we don't know what they did or didn't have. And even if they didn't, 10,000 years is so much history, things can change so fundamentally so many times, it's hard to believe it would make much of a difference in the long term.

The first question that came to mind was what Shen Wei thinks of monarchy - the Dijun always felt a little incongruous to me in the show...

Hm, good question! For long stretches of history in many places monarchy was the default system, but it doesn't feel like Dixingren started out with that kind of system. (Not that there's anything in canon I can point to, to clearly support that feeling ...) In the present day, it does feel like Dixing's system of rulership is stuck in the past.

Also, places of learning, I bet he'd have tried to establish some/more than there were and maybe that would've made a difference.

Oh, yes! Even back then, Shen Wei would have been all over that. It's just in his nature.

I think you'd probably get two camps here - the realist 'look, he was literally buried under the earth, he's dead' camp and the 'but it's Heipaoshi! He's beaten terrible odds before' camp. Time then eventually seemed to prove the former right.

And the idealists' hopes became myths. I'll eat my hat if Dixing doesn't have some King Arthur-style myths about Hei Pao Shi returning in time of need ...

[elenothar]

He wouldn't still be a much-loved hero 10,000 years later if people hadn't cared!

That's a good point! But I suppose you don't need to have been approachable/have had personal relationships with people to be revered.

For long stretches of history in many places monarchy was the default system, but it doesn't feel like Dixingren started out with that kind of system. (Not that there's anything in canon I can point to, to clearly support that feeling ...)

I had the exact same feeling, though I'm equally as unsure as to where I got the feeling from. Maybe it's the feeling that Dixingren are confirmed aliens, and why would aliens necessarily be monarchic?

I'll eat my hat if Dixing doesn't have some King Arthur-style myths about Hei Pao Shi returning in time of need ...

Oh, perfect! And then he even does, courtesy of the Hallows...

[trobadora]

Yeah, maybe "spaceship" and "monarchy" don't go together so well in our heads. *g* And also, idk, we don't see much of Shen Wei's relationship with his men, but from what little he says about it it doesn't seem feudal at all. Nor does the thing the rebels have going feel feudal either ...

Oh, perfect! And then he even does, courtesy of the Hallows...

Right? Someone somewhere in Dixing is going, "prophecy or just luck of the draw?" and frantically researching. *g*

[elenothar]

Right? Someone somewhere in Dixing is going, "prophecy or just luck of the draw?" and frantically researching.

An archivist just stuck reading through all the - probably wildly conflicting -'myth of heipaoshi' accounts, trying to figure out if any of them match what's happening right now...

[trobadora]

This definitely happened. New headcanon ahoy! :D

[nnozomi]

An archivist just stuck reading through all the - probably wildly conflicting -'myth of heipaoshi' accounts, trying to figure out if any of them match what's happening right now.
Oh yes, fic for this please!

[elenothar]

... maybe I can fit it into the tentative '5 times Dixingren scholars try to pin Heipaoshi down to get some damn answers' fic idea...

[trobadora]

Oooh, that sounds like the perfect spot for it! :D

[elenothar]

One of these days I'll manage not to acquire yet more plot bunnies every time I talk to one of you dangerous people 😅

[nnozomi]

the tentative '5 times Dixingren scholars try to pin Heipaoshi down to get some damn answers' fic idea...
that sounds very promising regardless :)

[china_shop]

Maybe it used to be (spaceship) captain, and it got transferred into the position of Dijun at some point? It doesn't seem to be a hereditary role. ETA: At least, it doesn't by contemporary times.

[trobadora]

Yeah, that's a good point! It's not hereditary, and in the modern day at least the Dijun is essentially a bureaucracy machine. I always assumed he was more of a standard monarch before the Guardian Lantern went out, but there's zero evidence for that ...