sid_guardian | Guardian readalong: chapters 3 & 4

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Guardian readalong: chapters 3 & 4

Hi, everyone, whether you were already here last week or are just joining us now! Last week's discussion post for the prologue and chapters 1 and 2 will remain open, of course, so feel free to comment there at any time. :)

Today we're on to chapters 3 and 4.

Chapter 3: Shen Wei takes Zhao Yunlan, Daqing and Guo Changcheng to the admin building, where they encounter much creepiness and ghostly happenings.
Chapter 4: Shen Wei saves Zhao Yunlan from falling off the roof, and Zhao Yunlan questions Li Qian.

Excerpts

1) Guo Changcheng's impression of Shen Wei

For some reason, after a few steps, Guo Changcheng looked back.

Shen Wei had yet to take even a single step from the spot. He'd removed his glasses and was absentmindedly wiping them with the corner of his shirt. In the dim hallway, his shadow stretched out, long against the floor, looking lonely and dejected. The eyes that had so determinedly avoided Zhao Yunlan were now fixed on his back.

There was a dark distance in that intense gaze. His expression held both a sort of restrained yearning and an affection that was almost palpable...but at the same time, there was deep, crushing pain.

Out of nowhere, Guo Changcheng got the feeling that the man had been standing there for thousands and thousands of years.

2) The SID's history

The Soul-Guarding Order had existed since ancient times. It served to conduct Netherworld business in the mortal world, act as a medium between yin and yang, and coordinate the Three Realms. Historically, it had fallen under the Imperial History Bureau. After the People's Republic of China was founded, the Soul-Guarding Order came under the jurisdiction of the Ministry of Public Security. That was when the Special Investigations Department had been established.

The current director of the Special Investigations Department, Zhao Yunlan, was also the Guardian. This Guardian was equally comfortable in the Netherworld or in banquet halls. He was talented and smooth, able to hold his alcohol and exchange cups with anyone in the Three Realms. Eating, drinking, whoring, gambling, or putting on a show-he was an expert at it all.

3) Shen Wei rescues Zhao Yunlan

Zhao Yunlan hesitated, but then, despite the fierce wind atop the tall building, he met Shen Wei's eyes and saw himself in their depths-himself and, somehow, the night sky, impossibly intermingled. For some reason, looking up into those eyes, Zhao Yunlan instinctively let go and placed everything, including his insignificant little life, in Shen Wei's hands.

He regretted it the moment he let go. Is lust rotting my brain?

In the next second, Shen Wei hauled him up by sheer force. His unimposing, scholarly appearance belied an unusually powerful grip-Zhao Yunlan's wrist was rapidly going numb, his fingers purpling. The friction pushed his sleeve up to the elbow, scraping a layer of skin from his forearm.

Then he was being held tightly in Shen Wei's arms as they both collapsed on the roof-tightly enough that his bones creaked in protest, as though Shen Wei were hugging something he'd lost long ago. A strange feeling stirred in Zhao Yunlan when he glanced at his wrist and saw the bruises from Shen Wei's hold on it.

4) Have you seen me before?

"Shen-laoshi, have you ever seen me before today?"

Surprised, Shen Wei met his gaze, mind going blank. For two full seconds, he could only stare at Zhao Yunlan, unable to look away. Finally, his throat a little dry, he said, "I... Yes. I saw you before."

Zhao Yunlan raised an eyebrow and waited for him to finish.

"I..." A conflicted expression flitted across Shen Wei's face. Just as Zhao Yunlan thought he was about to tell a fantastic story of how incredibly their lives were entangled, Shen Wei's tone lightened. "Actually, I saw your team working on a case."

Zhao Yunlan felt a sudden pang of disappointment, as though his hopes had been lifted just to be let down gently.

Questions

How are you enjoying things so far? What's your favourite line or moment in these chapters? Any particular bits that drew your attention? Any favourite worldbuilding elements or character details? Parallels or contrasts with the drama? What do you make of the hints and foreshadowing we're given? What's your impression of Li Qian? If you're reading a different translation or a Chinese edition, how do the excerpts above compare? Any other thoughts? (Note: these are just conversation starters. Feel free to answer all, some, or none, and to say as much or as little as you like!)

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I'm enjoying the novel a lot so far! We haven't yet hit the point where I bounced off last time, but also I don't remember enjoying it this much at first either. So I'm curious to see how it goes, and wondering whether it's the difference in translations, or whether I just wasn't in the right headspace for it at the time.

And I'm still impressed by how many things from the novel made it into the drama, even if sometimes in different form and/or under different circumstances - right down to the image of a shadow reaching for Shen Wei's foot. Whoever wrote the script really paid attention! So much love!

I love the multiplicity of creepy happenings in chapter 3 that immediately get a mundane explanation, both from Shen Wei (the stopped elevator, the empty office) and from Zhao Yunlan (the watch), but despite that aren't actually mundane. Delightful! There's also Shen Wei's explanation for his own knowledge and reaction to Zhao Yunlan, and Zhao Yunlan's disappointment at it. I'm so fascinated with how that conversation worked itself into the drama in a completely different way, thanks to the context of the time loop.

The narrative voice is very fun, and I like the worldbuilding and most of the character interactions we get in these chapters. This Zhao Yunlan is colder and harsher than his drama counterpart, and he's definitely meaner to/about both Guo Changcheng and Li Qian. But I'm definitely enjoying Zhao Yunlan being suspicious of Shen Wei and testing him at every opportunity yet not being willing to risk someone's life without proof.

The architecture of the school buildings hidden within dated back to the days of European Concession; they seemed incredibly old and somehow desolate.

Does that mean the university's European architecture in the drama actually hails from the novel? I wouldn't have expected that!

"That old cynic said, 'You think I was wrong, Zhao-tongxue? Look at you now-a typical thug in a uniform."

Ha! I'm actually surprised that's still in the official text on JJWXC. *g*

"Shen-laoshi is an intellectual who believes in atheism. I'm sure you don't believe in ghosts, do you?"

amedia was right, this bit is really good! Love Shen Wei's dodging, and Zhao Yunlan recognising he's not getting anywhere with that. *g*

I also love that Shen Wei can't help himself and just has to chide Zhao Yunlan about his smoking! I mean, undoubtedly he's also aware Zhao Yunlan is testing him, and is deflecting his suspicion, but still!

The section in the excerpts above where Guo Changcheng sees Shen Wei staring and gets that impression of loneliness and yearning and pain - such a great image, and Shen Wei has meaningfully taken off his glasses for it. So good!

But there's one thing above all that: we absolutely do not have the right to keep an ordinary human in a dangerous situation. If anything happened to them, the consequences would be more than anyone could bear.

I'm fascinated by the bits of worldbuilding about the SID - the rules it operates under, and the history.

Whether dealing with a human or a ghost, without conclusive proof, you must assume they are innocent.

Good, but given how harshly Zhao Yunlan treats Li Qian - if that's how he treats people without proof of wrongdoing, it's not very promising. (I didn't like that much, yeah.) Even Shen Wei has to scold him about it, even though he himself was furious at her for endangering Zhao Yunlan,

"I just think there's something strange about that Shen-laoshi. I'm not sure exactly what it is, but being close to him makes me very comfortable."
"You also feel comfortable when you get close to wandering ghosts, and you especially love hiding dried fish in subterranean caves where corpses were hidden," Zhao Yunlan pointed out icily.
"You know that's exactly what I mean, dumbass human," said the cat disdainfully with a fwip of his tail.

That's fascinating about Daqing! And of course telling about Shen Wei, but it's such a neat little detail for Daqing even apart from that. ♥

After that, it was like jumping to your death was the latest craze. Girl after girl, each one blurry-faced and rushing as if to get to the market, appeared and then dashed to leap from the roof. Zhao Yunlan made grabs for all of them, but not a single one was corporeal. Beads of sweat began appearing on his forehead.

Despite the serious subject, this is hilarious! And good on Zhao Yunlan for trying each time, and being stubborn about it despite what Daqing says - which is how he does end up saving Li Qian.

Zhao Yunlan saving Li Qian but falling and being saved in turn by Shen Wei - that's a pretty huge difference compared to the novel, where Zhao Yunlan and Shen Wei together save Li Qian.

Ah. So Shen Wei hadn't been afraid of him when they first met. The stiff body language and reluctance to meet his gaze seemed more like unease rooted in shyness.

Zhao Yunlan has correctly deduced that Shen Wei is attracted to him! ... And incorrectly concluded his avoidance is due to shyness, LOL.

Back inside on the top floor, he saw Guo Changcheng lying exactly where he'd been left. But before the boss could say anything, Daqing eagerly ran over and landed a barrage of "Meowvenly Meteor Paw" against Guo Changcheng's face.

This was pretty opaque to me. Can anyone explain?

Something like a pendant's outline was faintly visible through his thin shirt.

In the drama, this is the case so often even when the camera doesn't draw attention to it! Which is a thing that isn't possible in the novel, of course ...

This girl named Li Qian had an unmistakable smear of heavy darkness under her eyes. Her gaze was empty, her eyes bloodshot, and her forehead ashen, as if she were knocking on death's door. From head to toe, she radiated misfortune.

Poor Li Qian! But there's clearly more wrong with her than there is with drama!Li Qian. (Idk if this is the right place to talk about that, but I just want to say I really like what the drama did with Li Qian and the way they used her in the later episodes!)

The section where Shen Wei cleans the wound on Zhao Yunlan's arm tugged at my memory because I thought I remembered it differently, and looking at the fan translation, the two are clearly working with different texts. The fan translation has a whole bit about Zhao Yunlan's sexual orientation and history, and an extended bit about him considering whether he should pursue Shen Wei:

Zhao Yunlan wasn't exactly gay, but his taste was certainly wider than most. And better yet, he had to be the most perverted guy one had ever met; be it either a man or a women, anyone who was beautiful was enough ring his bell.

Luckily, he was just a perverted jerk, not a perverted playboy. If he fell for someone, he was determined and loyal; so credibly, he wasn't too shabby of a lover.

Around half a year had passed since the end of his last relationship, and Professor Shen was wholly his cup of tea; it was hard to resist such temptation.

Go for it, or leave him alone?

Shen Wei was the type of guy who looked exceptionally serious.

It was clear to Zhao Yunlan what he had to offer- a bizarre and unconventional career, as well as a frivolous and callous lifestyle of drinking and partying. Sure, he drove an expensive car, but he lived in a dog's lair. He wasn't exactly boyfriend material, let alone the guy you'd want to settle down with and marry. He should probably stay away from someone who's decent and well-educated, but...

The young professor seemed to be attracted to Zhao Yunlan, and he was such a catch too. It would be too much of a waste if Zhao Yunlan lets this go.

And again there's something bit missing when Shen Wei reacts to Zhao Yunlan's question whether they've met before - a bit of a look inside Shen Wei's head:

Shen Wei had really made a blunder today... He shouldn't have met Zhao Yunlan in the first place.

Zhao Yunlan didn't know anything, didn't remember anything... He'd already crossed the Bridge of Fate, drunk the Forgetful Water, passed the Six Realms of Existence, and completed reincarnation. His soul had long been washed clean, how could he remember anything?

Shen Wei looked at the other man's handsome face, his piercing gaze, and he wished he could lift his hand to touch that face, after the passing of these long cold years, If only he could once again feel the warmth of his skin...

After god knows how long, Shen Wei cleared his throat and replied bitterly, "I have met you before..."

Both of these, interestingly, are in the current JJWXC version, here and here! I'm once again fascinated by the differences between versions ...

It was a woman's voice on the line-but not Wang Zheng's. This woman spoke in a sibilant way, dragging out her final syllables in a faint hiss. It gave her voice a flirtatious note.

Zhu Hong! I'm really looking forward to meeting the rest of the SID; I can't remember very much about them ...

"One more thing-we got a message from him. I think he's probably going to stop by personally, but I don't dare open it to be sure. Hurry and come back."

Nice and ominous! :D

Edited 2024-11-16 22:12 (UTC)

Just now starting chapters 3 & 4. Will be back here on Sunday.

Yay! :D

I’m so confused about the chapter numbering. I read up to what my version calls “Chapter 6: Transmigration Dial Part 5” (Guangming Road was Chapter 1), but I’ve only gotten up to Da Qing musing about Zhao Yunlan’s character.

How many chapters is your version in all? Mine seems to have 106, up to a chapter called “Guardian Lantern (final).”

The third JJWXC link trobadora posted seemed to be chapter 8 on that platform…

Edited 2024-11-17 01:29 (UTC)

Oh no, that is frustrating! The official translation has:

volume 1: prologue, 28 chapters
volume 2: 19 chapters
volume 3: 25 chapters, epilogue, extras

So that's considerably fewer than 106!

To help us align, in the official translation:

end of chapter 2: Shen Wei saying "Follow me."

beginning of chapter 3: description of the campus: "Dragon City University's original campus had been built during the Chinese Republican era, and it bore the weight of a century of history."

end of chapter 3: She Wei grabbing Zhao Yunlan's arm as he dangles from the roof, saying, "Give me your other hand! Hurry!"

beginning of chapter 4: Zhao Yunlan trusting his weight to Shen Wei

end of chapter 4: Zhao Yunlan in the hospital hallway after being on the phone with Zhu Hong, telling Shen Wei: "No need to walk me out."

ETA: I'd noticed the JJWXC chapter numbering didn't align, but somehow hadn't thought about the consequences for our readalong, oops ...

Edited 2024-11-17 01:36 (UTC)

Yeah, my version of the first two quotes you posted is a little different. Here are some mostly mtl translations:

他看见沈巍并没有走，戴眼镜的男人站在原地，把眼镜摘了下来，拿在手里，心不在焉地用衣角擦着，方才一直躲躲闪闪的眼睛这会却死死地盯着赵云澜的背影，那眼神极深极远，黑沉沉的，他的表情像是怀念，像是克制，含着某种呼之欲出的眷恋……又仿佛包含着某种深沉的痛苦。

沈巍的影子在光线昏暗的楼道里被长长地拖在身后，看起来又孤单、又黯然。

郭长城有种莫名的感觉，就好像他已经在那里站了成千上万年一样。

He saw that Shen Wei had not left. The man who wore glasses stood there. He had taken off his glasses and held them in his hand, absentmindedly wiping them with the corner of his shirt. His eyes, which had been dodging just now, were now fixed on Zhao Yunlan's back. His expression were very deep and distant, dark. His expression was a little nostalgic, showing a little restraint, with some kind of attachment that was about to burst out... and seemed to contain some deep pain.

Shen Wei's shadow was dragged behind him in the dimly lit corridor, looking lonely and gloomy.

Guo Changcheng had an inexplicable feeling, as if he had been standing there for tens of thousands of years.

Sentence order differences, mostly.

And

历代“镇魂令主”，都是在阳世三间管着阴曹地府的事，哪怕不表现出来，心里也总会把自己当成活人堆里的异类，很少有像赵云澜这样入世的。

而且他不单是入世，还入得颇为八面玲珑，如鱼得水，乃是个下得了阴曹，上得了酒席，推杯换盏会劝酒，嘴里亲兄弟，心里骂他娘的人才。

至于吃喝嫖赌、逢场作戏那一套，他更是炉火纯青、五毒俱全。

The "Master of the Soul-Guarding Mandate" of generations past have been in charge of the affairs of the underworld in the three realms of the living world. Even if they don't show it, they always think of themselves as an alien among the living. Few are as worldly as Zhao Yunlan.

Moreover, he is not only worldly, but also very versatile, like a fish in water. He is a person who can go to the underworld, go to banquets, clink glasses and persuade others to drink, and call another brother with his mouth but curse the other’s mother in his heart.

As for eating, drinking, gambling, whoring, and acting according to circumstances, he is even more proficient and has all the five vices.

No mention of the history of the SID or details about the Zhenhunling.

I don’t know about the last two because I haven’t gotten there yet. :P

Edited 2024-11-17 01:51 (UTC)

Ah, by my calculations three of my chapters should be roughly equal to two of yours then. I’ll go by that rule of thumb.

Maybe I should just download the fan translation and align though.

I think the fan translation uses the JJWXC chapter numbering.

Thank you for sharing these, that is so fascinating!

Oh no. Is there an available digital translation with correct chapter numbers I can reference then?

I may fall behind anyway though — not sure I can read 3-4 of my chapters per week + catch up to this week’s. Maybe I shall just comment on the appropriate post as I go.

I'm so fascinated with how that conversation worked itself into the drama in a completely different way, thanks to the context of the time loop.

I'm finding that this element is part of my enjoyment of the novel: finding unexpected tidbits that the drama managed to include in a different context!

The narrative voice is very fun, and I like the worldbuilding and most of the character interactions we get in these chapters.

This, too! I'm enjoying this novel for its own self, as well as in relation to the drama.

amedia was right, this bit is really good! Awww, thanks!

That's fascinating about Daqing! And of course telling about Shen Wei, but it's such a neat little detail for Daqing even apart from that. ♥

It is! I also love the fwip of his tail - nice job by the translator IMHO - and the interaction between DQ and ZYL is fantastic!

Girl after girl, each one blurry-faced and rushing as if to get to the market, appeared and then dashed to leap from the roof. Zhao Yunlan made grabs for all of them, but not a single one was corporeal.
Despite the serious subject, this is hilarious!

That's so interesting! Now that I look back on it, it IS pretty funny, especially the image of ZYL's arms closing on nothing every time. But when I was originally reading it, it seemed to me like something out of a horror movie, or a horror anime (not sure why I pictured it as anime, except maybe because of the style of the internal illustrations).

landed a barrage of "Meowvenly Meteor Paw" against Guo Changcheng's face.
I pictured this as one of those rapid-fire "thwap-thwap-thwap-thwap-thwap" thing that cats do. I'mma guess that "Meowvenly" is a valiant attempt to capture a pun that worked a lot better in Chinese.

The differences in the versions of the text are fascinating! Thanks for including the additional material.

Intriguing differences!

call another brother with his mouth but curse the other’s mother in his heart.
This phrase stood out to me ... definitely not a compliment, but also not an easy thing to do! I imagine it would be a useful talent for someone who has to deal with so many delicate political situations among the different realms.

I was also intrigued by the reference to all the five vices, so I went to look them up and promptly fell down a clickhole of Buddhist variations: one list had lust, anger, greed, attachment, and ego, while another had ignorance, attachment, aversion, pride, and jealousy. What they all seem to have in common, off the top of my head, is that they relate to various aspects of the Conditions of Dependent Co-arising that force people to remain on the wheel of samsara.

"Shen-laoshi is an intellectual who believes in atheism. I'm sure you don't believe in ghosts, do you?"

It’s a bit different in my version, and I don’t know whether it actually changed in the copy the translators were looking at or if the differences are just translation choices: “沈教授是高知，讲究唯物主义，肯定不相信这种鬼东西吧？”

“Professor [jiaoshou, not laoshi, mind you] Shen is a high-level intellectual, particular about the belief that the physical world can explain everything [aka materialism]. Surely you don’t believe this kind of ghost story?”

And then I have to note that 鬼东西, which we have either translated as “ghosts” or “ghost story,” literally means “ghost things” and has the colloquial meaning of “this goddamn thing” or “this shit.” You’d call something a 鬼东西 if you were really unhappy with it and/or confused by it. So by another interpretation Zhao Yunlan is saying, “Surely you don’t believe these laughably strange beliefs?”

Ooh, so Da Qing’s comment in the original is: “我只是觉得那个沈教授有些不对劲，说不出是哪不对，但靠近他让我觉得非常舒服。”

which I interpreted as: “I only thought this Prof Shen felt a little suspicious, and I couldn’t say how, but after getting close to him I felt very comfortable.”

with the implication of “I was ONLY getting close to him to investigate him, but then his arms were so comfy…”

but the official translation makes slightly more sense.

I’ll put my notes here even though I didn’t finish all of this week’s reading:

I like the description of the Longcheng University campus. It’s spooky.

The elevator scare and fakeout 🤣🤣🤣 (but is it a fakeout…)

This book has…an odd way of describing things that makes the rhythm hard to follow for me. First of all, it’s heavy on the four-character idioms and I keep having to look them up. But more importantly, the descriptions are…very long-winded and the metaphors are a bit over-extended? E. g. 以至于体型也越来越走向国际化的大庆, which translated preserving sentence structure as much as possible is: “…and as for the ‘body-shape that is even more and more going toward globalization’ Da Qing…” All this to say Da Qing is very fat.

Zhao Yunlan hooked by Shen Wei’s pretty eyes! “An inky sweep” etc etc etc. (I remember there was a pretty good translation of this bit that either foxghost or dtriad on Tumblr had done. I’ll try to dig it up.) I wonder if Kunlun was similarly mesmerized by the Ghost Slayer’s eyes.

“不咸不淡地道了别” — this is my favorite description now!A somewhat literal translation is, “He said goodbye neither saltily nor blandly,” LOL. (This is when ZYL is saying bye to Shen Wei in the “mathematics” building.)

ZYL saying Da Qing was “just like a brainless dog” lmao what an insult.

“你靠近游魂的时候也很舒服，尤其爱往藏尸的阴穴里埋小鱼干。” Da Qing liking to bury his dried fish in graves…we’re getting excellent Da Qing lore so early in the game.

Whole atmosphere is very creepy!

ZYL’s whole speech about not being able to ear moral integrity is such a character moment. Very pragmatic and somewhat cynical man.

Edited 2024-11-17 06:03 (UTC)

Ooh, very interesting.

This was pretty opaque to me. Can anyone explain?
Da Qing is hitting Xiao-Guo in the face with his paw, presumably to wake him. I think it’s a reference to moves from video games like this, but I don’t recognize it as anything specific.

And again there's something bit missing
I knew this was a possibility, but I'm still miffed. I wish there was a 'complete' version that has everything.

The official translation does have an ebook.

I think our chapters will ultimately end up aligning more - on average you only have 1.4 chapters for every one of the official one, so perhaps the difference is especially present early on. But no worries about falling behind, the discussion posts will be here for you whenever you get to any particular chapter!

I'm finding that this element is part of my enjoyment of the novel: finding unexpected tidbits that the drama managed to include in a different context!

Yes, definitely agreed!

Girl after girl, each one blurry-faced and rushing as if to get to the market, appeared and then dashed to leap from the roof. Zhao Yunlan made grabs for all of them, but not a single one was corporeal.
Despite the serious subject, this is hilarious!

That's so interesting! Now that I look back on it, it IS pretty funny, especially the image of ZYL's arms closing on nothing every time. But when I was originally reading it, it seemed to me like something out of a horror movie

It's a horror scenario, absolutely, but the flippant narrative voice makes it comedic. Which I think is a delightful choice. :D

I'mma guess that "Meowvenly" is a valiant attempt to capture a pun that worked a lot better in Chinese.

Yeah, it definitely sounds like that kind of thing!

Haha, yeah, he's so two-faced, and it's definitely a skill while also not being very praiseworthy. *g*

And thanks for looking that up! The original phrase in the quote is 五毒, five poisons, but I don't know enough to say what that means for Zhao Yunlan's character in context. (Does anyone?)

Wow, those are some fascinating differences! 鬼东西 in this context is such a choice, LOL. And I can't see why it's been changed from "Professor Shen".

with the implication of “I was ONLY getting close to him to investigate him, but then his arms were so comfy…”

Oh, I like that, that makes a lot of sense for Daqing's motivation!

No rush about finishing! ♥

The elevator scare and fakeout 🤣🤣🤣 (but is it a fakeout…)

Yeah, very good question! It definitely sounded like more.

First of all, it’s heavy on the four-character idioms and I keep having to look them up. But more importantly, the descriptions are…very long-winded and the metaphors are a bit over-extended?

Yeah, I've heard priest's style is generally considered to be a bit difficult and full of chengyu and such! Totally admiring you for being able to read it at all. And that's fascinating about the extended metaphors, a very distinctive part of the quippy narrative voice. I find that quite charming!

I remember there was a pretty good translation of this bit that either foxghost or dtriad on Tumblr had done. I’ll try to dig it up.

Oooh, that would be awesome! I remember both of them did some very intriguing Guardian translation meta back then, but the only one I know I still have a link for is

foxghost talking about "Daqing" vs. "Da Qing". *g*

we’re getting excellent Da Qing lore so early in the game.

Seriously! I love those details.

ZYL’s whole speech about not being able to ear moral integrity is such a character moment. Very pragmatic and somewhat cynical man.

Yes, agreed! He's such a character.

Thank you so much for the explanation and the link, that helps a lot!

So far we've had places where the official translation had more text, and places where it had less, and yeah, I just want all of it in one place, dammit! *grumbles*

I found the translated snippet I was talking about! This is farrrrr before the official translation was a thing, but: https://arrghigiveup.tumblr.com/post/177246120867/greenjudy-arrghigiveup-greenjudy/amp

Most of the post is a good read regarding how hard the text is to translate. The passage I was talking about comes near the end.

From a cautious internet search (most of my references on Buddhism are in my office) “vices” and “poisons” are both used in English to translate the Sanskrit term “klesha,” personal hindrances to enlightenment.

I suspect “vices” were used in the translation because (a) it sounds sexier and (b) an audience unfamiliar with the Buddhist context might think it meant that ZYL was good at poisoning people!

“Vice” makes sense for “klesha” if you think of vice in the Aristotelian sense, a characteristic developed by habit that makes it difficult to attain happiness.

I would love to hear from folks who know more about this!!!

Edited (Forgot to use relevant icon) 2024-11-17 16:01 (UTC)

Thanks for doing the research. I should have checked the characters, because a Baidu search for 五毒/wudu/five poisons brings up five species of animals: snake, scorpion, centipede, toad, gecko. (https://mr.baidu.com/r/1teGKexHFVm if you fancy some MTL.)

The English Wikipedia page for Kleshas lists 煩惱/fannao as the Chinese word for it. 煩惱 is more colloquially used to mean “frustrations.”

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Guardian readalong: chapters 3 & 4

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