sid_guardian | Scene discussion: The Nosebleed Scene

Entry tags:

Scene discussion: The Nosebleed Scene

(I wasn't sure what to call this scene -- there's so much in it! -- but I always think of it as "the nosebleed scene from episode 19" :D)

Location: episode 19, 11:00-13:47

Context: Guo Changcheng, Chu Shuzhi, and Yehuo have been kidnapped by Zhu Jiu. Zhao Yunlan, alone in the SID laboratory, looks at the glowing Mountain-River Awl and remembers Shen Wei telling him not to touch the Holy Tools [from episode 15]. But, hoping that the Awl will tell him where Zhu Jiu is, Zhao Yunlan picks it up and is immediately affected. He collapses to the laboratory floor and has a vision of finding Yehuo, Guo Changcheng, and Chu Shuzhi, who tries to strangle him.

Scene description: Zhao Yunlan wakes up from the vision, grimacing and rolling his head and shoulders. He's sitting on the laboratory's examining table. The camera angle shifts to over Shen Wei's shoulder and then we see Shen Wei's face. Shen Wei is very, very Not Pleased.

Screencap of Shen Wei in Guardian episode 19

Zhao Yunlan sees Shen Wei's extreme Not Pleased-ness, grins, and tries to glib his way out of it. "I guess I keep keeling over recently. That's really not a good thing." (我发现我呀，最近特别容易晕菜。这可真不是什么好事儿啊。) As if keeling over randomly is nothing to worry about? Oh, Zhao Yunlan.

Screencap of Zhao Yunlan in Guardian episode 19

He rubs his neck and Shen Wei looks at him.

Shen Wei's expression changes to alarm/concern.

Zhao Yunlan reacts to Shen Wei's look.

He rubs against his nose. Shen Wei angrily moves forward. Zhao Yunlan looks down at his hand. There is blood smeared on his face.

Shen Wei grabs Zhao Yunlan's lapels. Zhao Yunlan is surprised.

Screencap of Zhao Yunlan and Shen Wei from Guardian episode 19

Shen Wei aggressively stares at him.

Zhao Yunlan rubs his face again, and there's more blood on his fingers. He gives Shen Wei puppy-dog eyes.

Shen Wei releases his lapels so forcefully Zhao Yunlan rocks backward.

Screencap of Zhao Yunlan and Shen Wei from Guardian drama episode 19

Shen Wei steps back, turns away, and angrily slams his hand against the metal pipe railing (the ladder that goes to the floor above).

Zhao Yunlan reacts like he's not sure what Shen Wei is so upset about.

And continues rubbing blood from his nose. Shen Wei clutches the metal pipe and breathes heavily.

He turns around to look at Zhao Yunlan.

Who is not reacting with the same level of seriousness.

Shen Wei pulls a handkerchief out of his coat pocket and goes over to wipe Zhao Yunlan's nose for him, not gently.

Zhao Yunlan grabs the handkerchief from him. They exchange looks of mutual frustration at each other.

Shen Wei: "You touched them again, didn't you?" (你是不是又动圣器了？) Zhao Yunlan acts as if Shen Wei is overreacting.

Zhao Yunlan, in "it's no big deal" mode, says he thought he would get lucky and the Tools would help them deal with Zhu Jiu. But he didn't expect they'd be so useless. (我这不是抱着侥幸的态度想看看圣器能不能帮助咱们对付烛九。没想到没什么屁用。)

Shen Wei turns his head, steps back, and looks at Zhao Yunlan.

He asks what Zhao Yunlan feels now. (你现在什么感觉？) Zhao Yunlan says he doesn't feel anything, but he thinks he had a dream about Lao Chu, Xiao Guo, and Yehuo. (没什么感觉啊。噢，刚才好像做了一个梦。) There's a brief clip of the vision he had earlier.

Zhao Yunlan: "They all seemed to be dead." (梦见老楚、小郭还有野火好像都死了。) At first, Shen Wei reacts as if this is worthless information (or, at least, was not worth the risk Zhao Yunlan took). But then he grows serious.

Shen Wei: "Dead? This may not be just a dream." (死了？你这也许不只是一个梦。) Zhao Yunlan also looks serious.

Shen Wei paces back a few steps, rubbing the back of his neck. Zhao Yunlan stands up from the examination table.

Shen Wei: "Last time, I consulted a lot of books in the Dijun Palace archives. They were all about normal humans infected with dark energy. One example reported that, after infection, the victim suffered from temporal dysfunction. Sometimes he could hear or see scenes outside the timeline. It could be the past, or it could be the future. So the dream you had is probably a kind of prediction." (上一次在地君殿的档案室里我查阅了很多典籍，都是关于普通人感染了黑能量之后的反应。其中有一份案例说明，受害者感染了黑能量之后产生了时间性紊乱的症状，他偶尔听见或者看见时间线以外的场景，也许是过去，也许是…未来。所以你刚才做的梦很可能是一种预知。)

Zhao Yunlan looks alarmed.

I love the physicality and body language in this scene. For such an impactful scene, there's not that much dialogue in it, but we see their reactions and interactions so clearly. It says a lot about their relationship, bringing in the recurring themes: Shen Wei's concern for Zhao Yunlan, Shen Wei warning Zhao Yunlan away from the Tools, Zhao Yunlan ignoring the warning, Zhao Yunlan trying to joke his way out of trouble. But once the possibility that the dream is a prediction and members of the SID team could be dead, Zhao Yunlan takes it seriously. He doesn't seem bothered about effects to himself, but he cares if something's happened to his team.

I love Shen Wei's aggressive caretaking with the handkerchief: you can't be trusted to take care of yourself so I have to do it, and right now I'm furious about it. And Zhao Yunlan is startled by Shen Wei's ferocity, but still seems to think Shen Wei is overreacting. (Zhao Yunlan, why are you like this?)

Questions: What happened after Zhao Yunlan collapsed and before this scene begins? We can assume Shen Wei found him, and what must've going on in Shen Wei's mind at that point! Thoughts/theories? Fic ideas/recs?

Has Zhao Yunlan seen Shen Wei this upset/angry at him before? If he hasn't, what is Zhao Yunlan feeling now? (And if he has, did the puppy-dog eyes work on Shen Wei before...)

Is Shen Wei telling the truth about consulting books in the palace archives? What and why was he researching? I want the backstory about the normal human infected by dark energy who suffered from temporal dysfunction!

Any headcanons, theories, ideas, thoughts, reactions, squee, fanwork recs, etc. about this scene are welcome!

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

I always think of this as "the nosewiping scene"! It's one of my absolute favourite scenes.

you can't be trusted to take care of yourself so I have to do it, and right now I'm furious about it

YES THIS!!!! It's a thing of beauty. :D :D :D

(This is a fantastic post! I have a deadline tonight, but I'll comment properly tommorrow.)

It's one of my absolute favourite scenes.

One of mine, too! <3 It's so intense.

I adore the handkerchief bit.
Shen Wei is angry and frustrated – yet it doesn’t even occur to him not to take care of Zhao Yunlan. He could just let him sit with his bloody nose, but no, he absolutely HAS to wipe his nose for him immediately. At most he won’t be very gentle about it.
And isn’t that a broader theme with Shen Wei? “I will take care of you whether you want me to or not”?

I wonder if Zhao Yunlan genuinely doesn’t understand why Shen Wei is upset, or if he is just pretending and joking as his default deflection method.

The implications of people seeing the future being a more or less common (or at least known) occurrence are wild. You would think such a thing would make more waves than some footnotes in the library.

or if he is just pretending and joking as his default deflection method.

My feeling is that he's doing his best to disarm Shen Wei's fury by trying each of the tools in his toolbox in turn: glib, puppy eyes, distraction, etc. None of which are particularly sincere, so of course they don't defuse the situation at all. *noogies him* :-)

100% agreed! None of it works because all of it is the exact opposite of what Shen Wei wants. *g*

And isn’t that a broader theme with Shen Wei? “I will take care of you whether you want me to or not”?

Yes, that certainly fits Shen Wei!

I wonder if Zhao Yunlan genuinely doesn’t understand why Shen Wei is upset, or if he is just pretending and joking as his default deflection method.

That's a good question. Up to now, Zhao Yunlan doesn't seem to see the Tools' effects on him as legitimately serious. I keep recovering, right? seems to be his attitude. And I think Zhao Yunlan still isn't used to Shen Wei genuinely being concerned about him, and isn't quite sure how to react to it. He just did something Shen Wei told him not to, is confronted by Shen Wei's displeasure, and it probably feels natural for Zhao Yunlan to slide into joking deflection and see if that'll work.

The implications of people seeing the future being a more or less common (or at least known) occurrence are wild. You would think such a thing would make more waves than some footnotes in the library.

Exactly. It raises so many questions!

Shen Wei is angry and frustrated – yet it doesn’t even occur to him not to take care of Zhao Yunlan. He could just let him sit with his bloody nose, but no, he absolutely HAS to wipe his nose for him immediately.

RIGHT??? It's glorious. :D

Yeah, I think this is the first time Zhao Yunlan has seen Shen Wei in aggressively-protective mode like this - he'll see more during the blindness arc - and he doesn't quite get it yet here.

Totally agreed about the future visions - I wonder if they ever tried to deliberately induce this kind of black energy corruption, after they knew it could have this effect?

Yeah, I think this is the first time Zhao Yunlan has seen Shen Wei in aggressively-protective mode like this - he'll see more during the blindness arc - and he doesn't quite get it yet here.

He doesn't know what he's in for just yet <3

Totally agreed about the future visions - I wonder if they ever tried to deliberately induce this kind of black energy corruption, after they knew it could have this effect?

That would be the obious thing to do, right?
Maybe they did but it turned out difficult or unreliable?
I doubt they would be held back by ethical concerns...

Maybe they did but it turned out difficult or unreliable?
I doubt they would be held back by ethical concerns...

Yeah, I completely believe both of that.

Yessss, the nosebleed scene! A fave.

Your screencap of the moment after Shen Wei has released Zhao Yunlan so forcefully that he rocks backward, is perfect because it shows my favorite tiny detail from that moment: Shen Wei's hand lowers to touch/brace Zhao Yunlan's thigh, which would protect Zhao Yunlan from going too far backward, losing his balance, even potentially falling off the table.

It's a perfect tiny and even unconscious thing, that Shen Wei simply can't stop himself from protecting Zhao Yunlan--that even though he himself has just almost shoved him backward (with all the frustration, seeing how Zhao Yunlan is so careless of his own health and safety), he won't let anything happen to him.

Sigh!

I adore the fraught character stuff going on in this scene. Shen Wei is in high PROTECC mode, whereas Zhao Yunlan, like he does, is in high self-sacrifice (or at least complete lack of caring about what might happen to him, because of the importance to him of protecting others) mode. And I'm always privately yelling at Shen Wei, like, "Oh does it bother you that he's being so self-sacrificing that he suffers for it? JUST LIKE YOU??"

They do say that sometimes what bothers us most in others is something that exists in ourself! But I feel like neither of them can fully see it--BOTH of them can get into that "Yooooou're not allowed to suffer/self-sacrifice, you must be protected, only Iiiii am allowed to suffer/self-sacrifice". The way Shen Wei's love/protectiveness/fear for ZYL is expressed with so much frustration here, is the way ZYL's same feelings for SW are expressed with so much frustration in the kitchen scene! The way ZYL is all laughing/puppy eyes in this scene to brush past what he sees as unimportant harm done to him, is the way SW is all sweetly-smiling "fortunately I'm used to it" in the kitchen scene!

I want to lovingly bonk their heads together. :D

And I'm always privately yelling at Shen Wei, like, "Oh does it bother you that he's being so self-sacrificing that he suffers for it? JUST LIKE YOU??"

Hee! Though in Shen Wei's defence, his self-sacrificial moves are generally planned and calculated and (I think he'd argue) extremely necessary, whereas this is reckless, ill-thought-out and has a poor chance of getting the desired result. (Contrast his reaction here to when ZYL gave up his newly restored eye-sight, which hurt Shen Wei but didn't make him mad.)

The way Shen Wei's love/protectiveness/fear for ZYL is expressed with so much frustration here, is the way ZYL's same feelings for SW are expressed with so much frustration in the kitchen scene! The way ZYL is all laughing/puppy eyes in this scene to brush past what he sees as unimportant harm done to him, is the way SW is all sweetly-smiling "fortunately I'm used to it" in the kitchen scene!

Ahhhh, this is a fantastic parallel!! *rolls around in it*

Though in Shen Wei's defence, his self-sacrificial moves are generally planned and calculated and (I think he'd argue) extremely necessary, whereas this is reckless, ill-thought-out and has a poor chance of getting the desired result.

Yes, this is a good point, though clearly in that moment Zhao Yunlan feels like it's worth the risk. (I feel it matters that for all the times Zhao Yunlan touches the Hallows, I can't think of a single instance - not one - where it actually gains him anything useful.)

Hmm. In the Hanga caves he uses the Dial to find Wang Zheng (ep 10, 25:48). And before that, when he tries to save Wu Tian'en, it looks like it might work (it just might cost him a lot), but the Envoy takes it off him before he can be sure. Oh, and he's holding the Dial when Li Qian's grandmother projects out of it. That's all I can think of, but it might be enough to give him some confidence they can be useful?

Oh, that's a good point about finding Wang Zheng, I had forgotten about that! Idk if the Wu Tian'en instance counts, because there's no telling whether he could have done anything useful with it, but I can see how it would feel that way to him.

What strikes me, though, is that all three instances you name are with the Sundial. Why doesn't he try it again later, and instead go for the Awl? Do you ahve any theories?

Not any good theories. ;-) Maybe he thought the Envoy had only warned him off the Sundial? Maybe because the Dial had never given him visions, and that's what he's after? Maybe out of curiosity ("Show me what you've got!")? As I said...

Hee! The vision thing does make sense, though.

It's a perfect tiny and even unconscious thing, that Shen Wei simply can't stop himself from protecting Zhao Yunlan

*siiiigh* is right! <3 That's one of my favorite tiny details, too! And I worked hard to get the right screencap because I *had* to include that. It just says so much about Shen Wei that he won't let Zhao Yunlan topple over, even in the midst of being angrily frustrated at him.

And I'm always privately yelling at Shen Wei, like, "Oh does it bother you that he's being so self-sacrificing that he suffers for it? JUST LIKE YOU??"

SAME. I love that about them, though! Shen Wei and Zhao Yunlan have different modes of displaying/carrying out their self-sacrificing, but it's cut from the same cloth, I feel. I think Shen Wei's comes across as more convincing, perhaps, because he acts like he's always in control of the situation, but for me, I don't think it's a great sign of control if self-sacrifice is kinda your go-to solution... Maybe the difference between them, at least at this point, is that Zhao Yunlan's self-sacrifice feels more haphazard/unplanned. But it's still goal-oriented, just like Shen Wei's is. And they both downplay what they're doing to themselves, just in very different ways.

The way Shen Wei's love/protectiveness/fear for ZYL is expressed with so much frustration here, is the way ZYL's same feelings for SW are expressed with so much frustration in the kitchen scene! The way ZYL is all laughing/puppy eyes in this scene to brush past what he sees as unimportant harm done to him, is the way SW is all sweetly-smiling "fortunately I'm used to it" in the kitchen scene!

Ouch, YES. Oof, the parallels are clear. I also want to lovingly bonk their heads together. :D

Your screencap of the moment after Shen Wei has released Zhao Yunlan so forcefully that he rocks backward, is perfect because it shows my favorite tiny detail from that moment: Shen Wei's hand lowers to touch/brace Zhao Yunlan's thigh, which would protect Zhao Yunlan from going too far backward, losing his balance, even potentially falling off the table.

YES OMG that is glorious! I love these little details that say so much. ♥ ♥ ♥

And I'm always privately yelling at Shen Wei, like, "Oh does it bother you that he's being so self-sacrificing that he suffers for it? JUST LIKE YOU??"

I really, sincerely love this about the two of them, how very much they're both "do as I say, don't do as I do" when it comes to self-sacrifice. *g* It's part of why they fit so well, because (once they get there) they understand each other perfectly.

The way Shen Wei's love/protectiveness/fear for ZYL is expressed with so much frustration here, is the way ZYL's same feelings for SW are expressed with so much frustration in the kitchen scene!

Ooh, that's a great parallel/contrast! I hadn't thought of it that way before, but you're ocmpletely right!

I love them both so much. :D

It's absolutely called the Nosebleed Scene in my head too.

I LOVE your screencaps, they're so good and they both look so luminous. And as

dorinda said, that moment where Shen Wei is so mad he shoves Zhao Yunlan and yet slinks a hand down to his thigh to make sure he doesn't fall is chef's kiss, and you caught it perfectly. Also I love "glib" as a verb, and all of Zhao Yunlan's adorable puppyfaces. They're so good, and so maddening! What is a man who adores him to Do?!

that moment where Shen Wei is so mad he shoves Zhao Yunlan and yet slinks a hand down to his thigh to make sure he doesn't fall

I worked hard to get that screencap (it's literally like 3 or 4 frames where Shen Wei's fingers actually touch him...) so I am happy you approve! :D I love that moment so much.

They're so good, and so maddening! What is a man who adores him to Do?!

Zhao Yunlan is really banking on that here.

They're so good, and so maddening! What is a man who adores him to Do?!

RIGHT???? :D :D :D

Ahhh! I love this sceneeeee! It is one of the bestest scenes!!!

Zhao Yunlan rubs his face again, and there's more blood on his fingers. He gives Shen Wei puppy-dog eyes. - SUCH PUPPY DOG EYES. It is definitely: I am innocent-person-who-never-jumps-headfirst-into-trouble-never XD

Shen Wei releases his lapels so forcefully Zhao Yunlan rocks backward. - That hand on the leg though. HAND ON THE LEG. To make sure ZYL doesn't over balance. So many feelings from that.

Zhao Yunlan reacts like he's not sure what Shen Wei is so upset about. - Is this the first time ZYL has seen SW *truly* angry? I mean he's seen 'angry/stern' HPS, 'stern/chastizing' Professor Shen, but I think this might be the first time he's seen angry/angry-upset SW. Totally agree ZYL looks uncertain about how to deal with this SW. And then comes the handkerchief wiping which annoys both of them and puts both more into a serious mood (for a minute, at least, until he tries to play off the hallow touching XD).

I love the physicality and body language in this scene. For such an impactful scene, there's not that much dialogue in it, but we see their reactions and interactions so clearly. It says a lot about their relationship, bringing in the recurring themes: Shen Wei's concern for Zhao Yunlan, Shen Wei warning Zhao Yunlan away from the Tools, Zhao Yunlan ignoring the warning, Zhao Yunlan trying to joke his way out of trouble. But once the possibility that the dream is a prediction and members of the SID team could be dead, Zhao Yunlan takes it seriously. He doesn't seem bothered about effects to himself, but he cares if something's happened to his team. - All of this, yes yes! :D I agree whole-heartedly. Like you said there wasn't a ton of dialogue, but the *tension* in the scene was heavy.

What happened after Zhao Yunlan collapsed and before this scene begins? We can assume Shen Wei found him, and what must've going on in Shen Wei's mind at that point! Thoughts/theories? Fic ideas/recs? - Oo what a great question. I always assumed SW found him, which is why SW was in a very bad mood . Worry/anger/worry all sloshing together while he waited for ZYL to come back to his senses. I don't think I've seen any fics for the interlude between collapse and this scene, so there's definitely a nice add-on that could be written! :D I am always for SW princess carrying ZYL to the exam table XD

Has Zhao Yunlan seen Shen Wei this upset/angry at him before? If he hasn't, what is Zhao Yunlan feeling now? (And if he has, did the puppy-dog eyes work on Shen Wei before...) - I don't think he has? Not that I can remember. Not this type of personal I am really really upset (but underneath it scared too!) anger from Shen Wei. So, I'm sure it's shocking and I always thought when ZYL was uncertain how to handle things he usually resorts to playing things off. Or playing his 'got no cares' attitude up (which obviously made SW even more upset XD).

Is Shen Wei telling the truth about consulting books in the palace archives? What and why was he researching? I want the backstory about the normal human infected by dark energy who suffered from temporal dysfunction! - Oo I really love this idea too! My HC has always been that a normal human staying in Dixing too long would get hurt by the dark energy, because of how often SW has mentioned it in conjunction with ZYL touching the hallows. Though now my brain is like: What if it's because of the hallows? Maybe the hallows corrupt the dark energy and only a Dixingren can manage to deal with the corrupted dark energy (I mean I doubt that's the case but my brain offers this idea up). I think it would be interesting to expand upon the whole normal person impacted by the dark energy.

This was a wonderful write-up and awesome screen captures of a great scene :D SQUEE such goodness, thank you so much for writing it!!

Is this the first time ZYL has seen SW *truly* angry? I mean he's seen 'angry/stern' HPS, 'stern/chastizing' Professor Shen, but I think this might be the first time he's seen angry/angry-upset SW. Totally agree ZYL looks uncertain about how to deal with this SW.

Ohh, now I'm wondering how much his uncertainty is his bone-deep belief that he's not worth the fuss... which maybe starts to crystalise here, and finally gets verbalised during the kitchen knife scene... ?

Ohh, now I'm wondering how much his uncertainty is his bone-deep belief that he's not worth the fuss... which maybe starts to crystalise here, and finally gets verbalised during the kitchen knife scene... ? - AHHH YES! That makes total sense. Now I am having feelings. So many feelings!

Oh, OUCH. Yes. That makes perfect sense to me!

That hand on the leg though. HAND ON THE LEG. To make sure ZYL doesn't over balance. So many feelings from that.

Same for me! <3

Is this the first time ZYL has seen SW *truly* angry? I mean he's seen 'angry/stern' HPS, 'stern/chastizing' Professor Shen, but I think this might be the first time he's seen angry/angry-upset SW.

Yes, that's a great point. He hasn't seen Shen Wei truly angry like this before, and Shen Wei is angry at *him*.

I'm sure it's shocking and I always thought when ZYL was uncertain how to handle things he usually resorts to playing things off. Or playing his 'got no cares' attitude up (which obviously made SW even more upset XD).

Yes, I think so, too! Zhao Yunlan's default when he's uncertain seems to be play it off/joke/deflect, and this time it really backfires with Shen Wei.

Maybe the hallows corrupt the dark energy and only a Dixingren can manage to deal with the corrupted dark energy

Oooo, this is a cool idea! We don't know all that much about the hallows, and what we do know is unreliable (in my opinion, anyway...). That would be a really interesting complexity to the whole question of how any normal human handles dark energy vs. how Zhao Yunlan handles it.

SQUEE such goodness

<3 I love this scene! <3

Yes, that's a great point. He hasn't seen Shen Wei truly angry like this before, and Shen Wei is angry at *him*. - Exactly!! And not just exasperated but really angry (and worried can't forget that XD) but ZYL definitely is like a moment of ZYL.exe has stopped worried, default to sarcasm XD

Yes, I think so, too! Zhao Yunlan's default when he's uncertain seems to be play it off/joke/deflect, and this time it really backfires with Shen Wei. - It so does backfire! Totally agree 100% with this!!!

Oooo, this is a cool idea! We don't know all that much about the hallows, and what we do know is unreliable (in my opinion, anyway...). That would be a really interesting complexity to the whole question of how any normal human handles dark energy vs. how Zhao Yunlan handles it. - Thanks! :D I think it'd be interesting to world build on. What if some regular humans deal with dark energy better than others, possibly a quirk of their own biology, or maybe somewhere in the past they had a Dixing ancestor. So many different ways you could go!

Again an awesome awesome post! Thank you for posting it :D

Is this the first time ZYL has seen SW *truly* angry? I mean he's seen 'angry/stern' HPS, 'stern/chastizing' Professor Shen, but I think this might be the first time he's seen angry/angry-upset SW.

Yes, I think you're right! And he's definitely never seen him so angry he starts literally hitting things (the ladder). It's not like Shen Wei does that often!

So, I'm sure it's shocking and I always thought when ZYL was uncertain how to handle things he usually resorts to playing things off. Or playing his 'got no cares' attitude up (which obviously made SW even more upset XD).

Yes! Definitely has to be pretty startling for Zhao Yunlan. No wonder he retreats into his usual defence mechanisms ...

My HC has always been that a normal human staying in Dixing too long would get hurt by the dark energy, because of how often SW has mentioned it in conjunction with ZYL touching the hallows.

I do think the Hallows are a different matter, because Shen Wei at one poit says they're not good for Dixingren either ...?

The changing of the hairstyle really adds to the puppydog eyes, I'm so glad it was after instead of before.

Such a good scene! So much said with so little actual dialog. I love it.

The changing of the hairstyle really adds to the puppydog eyes

XD It does!

So much said with so little actual dialog

I hadn't really noticed how little dialogue is in the scene until I wrote the post. It's so well done. Such a great scene!

The changing of the hairstyle really adds to the puppydog eyes, I'm so glad it was after instead of before.

Oh wow, I never thought about that before, but you're so right! Just trying to imagine this with his early hairstyle is all wrong!

Ahhh, a fantastic choice of scene, and your commentary and screencaps are glorious, as always! <3 <3 <3

He's sitting on the laboratory's examining table.

I always wonder how he got there. I guess Shen Wei must have propped him up and then, when ZYL started showing signs of consciousness, backed off so he wouldn't wring ZYL's neck before he had a chance to thoroughly scold him. *g*

Shen Wei grabs Zhao Yunlan's lapels. Zhao Yunlan is surprised.

I love this so much, especially the fact that Shen Wei is standing between ZYL's thighs and grabbing him like that, omg! asdklfasdfad JUST KISS SOME SENSE INTO HIM ALREADY! YOU KNOW YOU WANT TO! I mean, they're alone, and there's a horizontal surface right there!!!

Shen Wei steps back, turns away, and angrily slams his hand against the metal pipe railing (the ladder that goes to the floor above).

I always wish he'd bent the metal. I think that would've been a really nice touch.

One example reported that, after infection, the victim suffered from temporal dysfunction. Sometimes he could hear or see scenes outside the timeline. It could be the past, or it could be the future.

This makes me think of the portal visions (Zhao Yunlan's memories of his mother). I wonder if he makes the same connection, too -- and whether other people also see portal visions, or if it's specific to him.

What happened after Zhao Yunlan collapsed and before this scene begins? We can assume Shen Wei found him, and what must've going on in Shen Wei's mind at that point! Thoughts/theories? Fic ideas/recs?

I wrote a brief Shen Wei POV version of this scene as part of Getting to Know You (an AU with repeated Envoy reveals and consensual mindwipes; link goes to the relevant chapter).

Has Zhao Yunlan seen Shen Wei this upset/angry at him before? If he hasn't, what is Zhao Yunlan feeling now? (And if he has, did the puppy-dog eyes work on Shen Wei before...)

I feel like it's very similar energy to Shen Wei's reaction to Zhao Yunlan's flat in ep 8, you know? Especially the part where he snatched the pills off ZYL before ZYL could dry-swallow them. Of course, ZYL was even more out of it then, so he might not have registered quite how angry Shen Wei was at that time.

Is Shen Wei telling the truth about consulting books in the palace archives? What and why was he researching? I want the backstory about the normal human infected by dark energy who suffered from temporal dysfunction!

I always wondered about that, or whether it could maybe have been an oblique reference to Kunlun handling the Hallows and being unmoored in time. (ETA: No, I take that back; Shen Wei's account sounds way too specific to be that.) But it would make perfect sense for him to be researching the timeline and "timeline dysfunction" (how much do I love that phrase?! *gg*), given what he must have deduced about ZYL's future.

Another thought: I wonder if Shen Wei's reaction to ZYL's vision of the others' deaths is intensified by feeling responsible for Chu Shuzhi. He's concerned for all of them, of course, but CSZ is his particular responsibility. This is super personal for both of them, and once they've realised it could happen, the scolding and byplay are immediately set aside in favour of Competent Battle Couple. ♥ ♥ ♥

Btw, I made a picspam of this scene early last year, with captions and a little discussion in the comments. :-)

Oh, and I know there's glorious fanart of a kiss during this scene by

musicalluna_draws, but I can't find it now, gah. ETA: Aha! Found it! :D

Edited 2022-11-06 11:37 (UTC)

This makes me think of the portal visions (Zhao Yunlan's memories of his mother). I wonder if he makes the same connection, too -- and whether other people also see portal visions, or if it's specific to him.

I've also wondered if the portal visions are specific to Zhao Yunlan or not.

I wonder if Shen Wei's reaction to ZYL's vision of the others' deaths is intensified by feeling responsible for Chu Shuzhi. He's concerned for all of them, of course, but CSZ is his particular responsibility.

Oh, yeah, that's an interesting point. And, definitely, once there's a chance that Zhao Yunlan's vision could be a premonition, they're both on the same page again and ready to work together.

Thanks for the links!

I guess Shen Wei must have propped him up and then, when ZYL started showing signs of consciousness, backed off so he wouldn't wring ZYL's neck before he had a chance to thoroughly scold him. *g*

Hee!

I love this so much, especially the fact that Shen Wei is standing between ZYL's thighs and grabbing him like that, omg! asdklfasdfad JUST KISS SOME SENSE INTO HIM ALREADY! YOU KNOW YOU WANT TO! I mean, they're alone, and there's a horizontal surface right there!!!

YES PLEASE. :D

(And thank you for reccing musicalluna's art! It's perfect! ♥

I feel like it's very similar energy to Shen Wei's reaction to Zhao Yunlan's flat in ep 8, you know? Especially the part where he snatched the pills off ZYL before ZYL could dry-swallow them. Of course, ZYL was even more out of it then, so he might not have registered quite how angry Shen Wei was at that time.

I feel like the frustration is similar, but the scene in episode 8 entirely lacks the physical aggression. To me, that scene always feels like Shen Wei is vibrating with suppressed frustration, but it remains suppressed and his physical actions are all much more deliberate.

But it would make perfect sense for him to be researching the timeline and "timeline dysfunction" (how much do I love that phrase?! *gg*), given what he must have deduced about ZYL's future.

Oooh, yes, that is true too! I always thought he came across it while researching the Hallows, but of course the time travel is where Kunlun and the Hallows intersect ...

I wonder if Shen Wei's reaction to ZYL's vision of the others' deaths is intensified by feeling responsible for Chu Shuzhi. He's concerned for all of them, of course, but CSZ is his particular responsibility. This is super personal for both of them, and once they've realised it could happen, the scolding and byplay are immediately set aside in favour of Competent Battle Couple. ♥ ♥ ♥

Yes, that feels very true to me!

I feel like the frustration is similar, but the scene in episode 8 entirely lacks the physical aggression. To me, that scene always feels like Shen Wei is vibrating with suppressed frustration, but it remains suppressed and his physical actions are all much more deliberate.

*nodnod* Maybe it's cumulative? Plus the degree to which it's expressed is proportional to how close they are? There's intimacy in fully expressing one's feelings, even if the feelings are "OMG, GAAAAH!" [1]

Like, in ep 8, pre-Envoy reveal, they're still circling each other (and ZYL just lied during the failed book con, leading to Shen Wei walking off without a word). Plus ZYL is being careless of his health but not, like, ignoring an expressly stated warning, and not making light of it. So openly aggressive caretaking would have been pretty WTF, then, I think? (I just re-watched, and I think Shen Wei's hands might be shaking slightly as he fills the kettle? Idk.) In ep 14, when Shen Wei shakes off ZYL's touch, that's also very controlled -- they're at odds then, too. Here, they're finally on the same page, and the closer they are, the more upsetting it is when ZYL takes stupid risks. So finding ZYL passed out in the lab, plus the exasperation that Shen Wei warned him about this and he didn't listen, short-circuits Shen Wei's control and collapses any distance that might be left between them (on his side, at least)? But also, maybe there's a feeling that suppressing his anger is pointless. ZYL doesn't listen to reason anyway! Or something? Idk.

Oh, plus this is after ZYL's encounter with Ding Dun that nearly killed him (after ZYL insisted on going to Dixing against Shen Wei's strong objection). That has to factor in, I think.

(I do love that Shen Wei has a temper. He's so controlled a lot of the time (has to be because he's so powerful and keeping so many secrets) that it's easy for me to forget how furious he can get.)

[1] It's such a good contrast with Shen Wei lambasting the Regent in ep 16, too. That was indignation and politics; this is exasperation and personal and full of concern. "I'm standing in judgement" versus "I love you, you idiot, so stop taking stupid risks, argh!"

/this may be a bit incoherent; sorry!

That's a great point - I think you're right, it's both cumulative and an expression of how close they are. See all the frustrated manhandling in the blindness arc!

Here, they're finally on the same page, and the closer they are, the more upsetting it is when ZYL takes stupid risks.

Yes! And the more he allows himself to express his upset, too. Early on, he's still (somewhat) trying to hide just how important ZYL is to him; the closer they get, the less reason he has to pretend he cares less. And the more ZYL knows him, the less he has to worry about coming on too strong. (He still comes on plenty strong as it is! It's a fine line! *g*)

So finding ZYL passed out in the lab, plus the exasperation that Shen Wei warned him about this and he didn't listen, short-circuits Shen Wei's control and collapses any distance that might be left between them (on his side, at least)?

This rings very true to me.

(I do love that Shen Wei has a temper. He's so controlled a lot of the time (has to be because he's so powerful and keeping so many secrets) that it's easy for me to forget how furious he can get.)

Yes! He may have waited for 10,000 years (figuratively), and decades of actually lived life, but Shen Wei is not some sort of infinitely patient figure! He has a temper - and even though he also has a hell of a lot of self-control when needed, he doesn't always restrain himself so tightly. And I love all of that about him. ♥ ♥ ♥

It's such a good contrast with Shen Wei lambasting the Regent in ep 16, too. That was indignation and politics; this is exasperation and personal and full of concern. "I'm standing in judgement" versus "I love you, you idiot, so stop taking stupid risks, argh!"

Yes! That is a great contrast! ♥

And the more ZYL knows him, the less he has to worry about coming on too strong. (He still comes on plenty strong as it is! It's a fine line! *g*)

Oh, yes! That. And also, the more Shen Wei knows this!here!ZYL, with all his particular un-Kunlun-y flaws and strengths, the more real it all gets, too. ZYL is so patently mortal and physically vulnerable.

Ooh, yes, that, too! The reality of Zhao Yunlan.

So, somehow it took me almost a week to come back to this ... Sorry! /o\

Shen Wei is very, very Not Pleased.

I love that expression on him, and your screencap captures it perfectly. :D

As if keeling over randomly is nothing to worry about? Oh, Zhao Yunlan.

They really are two of a kind, even if they express it differently. Both so dismissive of their own health!

Shen Wei aggressively stares at him.

YESSSS, gorgeous moment and gorgeous screencap! Seriously, the sheer amount of aggression this man can project ...

Zhao Yunlan reacts like he's not sure what Shen Wei is so upset about.

Another thing they both do, in very different expressions but with the same kind of sentiment. "Nothing to see here, everything's fine, no need to be upset about anything!" OH, THESE TWO. ♥ ♥ ♥

Shen Wei pulls a handkerchief out of his coat pocket and goes over to wipe Zhao Yunlan's nose for him, not gently.

THIS. Shen Wei aggressively wiping Zhao Yunlan's nose is my favourite thing. Seriously amazing. It delights me so much. And he grips him by the arm so he won’t back away! :D

"You touched them again, didn't you?" (你是不是又动圣器了？)

动 is use, not touch, right? And Zhao Yunlan did try to use the Awl.

刚才好像做了一个梦

Entirely irrelevant, but I love that in Chinese you do/make a dream, rather than have it. :D

They were all about normal humans infected with dark energy.

He just says 普通人, ordinary people – could that apply to Dixingren without powers as well? Though idk if they can be "infected" with black energy, since Dixingren all should have some kind of it, shouldn't they? Still, they could be infected by black energy not their own internal one ... But if it's all humans, that speaks to a significant amount of Dixing/Haixing contact and interaction, which is fascinating too.

I love the physicality and body language in this scene. For such an impactful scene, there's not that much dialogue in it, but we see their reactions and interactions so clearly. It says a lot about their relationship, bringing in the recurring themes: Shen Wei's concern for Zhao Yunlan, Shen Wei warning Zhao Yunlan away from the Tools, Zhao Yunlan ignoring the warning, Zhao Yunlan trying to joke his way out of trouble. But once the possibility that the dream is a prediction and members of the SID team could be dead, Zhao Yunlan takes it seriously. He doesn't seem bothered about effects to himself, but he cares if something's happened to his team.

Yes, all this! It's a glorious scene, and I love it to pieces.

What happened after Zhao Yunlan collapsed and before this scene begins? We can assume Shen Wei found him, and what must've going on in Shen Wei's mind at that point! Thoughts/theories? Fic ideas/recs?

Shen Wei must have found him collapsed, and propped him up on the examination table rather than laying him down. Possibly because he was already waking up?

Has Zhao Yunlan seen Shen Wei this upset/angry at him before? If he hasn't, what is Zhao Yunlan feeling now? (And if he has, did the puppy-dog eyes work on Shen Wei before...)

I don't think he has any idea how to deal with it because he’s never seen Shen Wei this angry before. Shen Wei hits the ladder! He's so frustrated he's getting physically aggressive! It has to be pretty overwhelming, and Zhao Yunlan does what he does when he doesn’t know what to do – he defaults to deflecting and trying to charm and joke his way out of it. Which only makes it worse, because the very thing that is frustrating Shen Wei is that Zhao Yunlan doesn't seem to take things seriously enough. Which makes me wonder how much of Shen Wei's anger would have been defused if Zhao Yunlan had said something like, "I know it was a risk, but I thought it was worth it for potentially getting a clue for how to save Lao-Chu and Xiao-Guo"?

Is Shen Wei telling the truth about consulting books in the palace archives? What and why was he researching? I want the backstory about the normal human infected by dark energy who suffered from temporal dysfunction!

I mean, he's been looking for the Hallows for ages – we know the expedition Butler Wu was involved in, 20 years ago, had something to do with the Hallows. So it only makes sense that he’d research everything he could find in the archives about the Hallows, in the hopes of finding a clue how to track them.

ETA: Sorry, missed half my thought here. I meant that I always thought he found these particular reports when he was researching the Hallows, because he was looking for weird black energy effects, because that is one thing the Hallows definitely do ...

I would love to hear about these cases he found that involve ordinary people infected by black energy, not just the one with the temporal dysfunction!

Question: I remember at one point seeing a gif from this scene where Shen Wei walking away from Zhao Yunlan to slam his hand against the ladder was reversed, so it looked like he was striding over and stepping between Zhao Yunlan's legs and moving in for a kiss. I looked, but I couldn't find it again. Does anyone know what I mean?

Edited 2022-11-11 19:46 (UTC)

Which makes me wonder how much of Shen Wei's anger would have been defused if Zhao Yunlan had said something like, "I know it was a risk, but I thought it was worth it for potentially getting a clue for how to save Lao-Chu and Xiao-Guo"?

Ooh, good question. I think it might have helped a lot, if only to know that ZYL is taking the aftereffects seriously.

I wonder if ZYL's airy dismissal of the danger, as well as being his go-to strategy for defusing tension, is because Shen Wei is so powerful and so emotionally upset, and any serious explanation might feel like ceding to Shen Wei's authority. Politically, they're on an equal footing, right? ZYL isn't actually answerable to the Envoy. But Shen Wei has the advantage in a lot of ways (age, knowledge, power), and the lines between their personal and official relationships are blurry. I think (as well as not valuing his own well-being) ZYL wants to protect his independence in both spheres (or isn't yet ready to admit he doesn't want to?), and he does that (or covers) by minimising.

Question: I remember at one point seeing a gif from this scene where Shen Wei walking away from Zhao Yunlan to slam his hand against the ladder was reversed, so it looked like he was striding over and stepping between Zhao Yunlan's legs and moving in for a kiss. I looked, but I couldn't find it again. Does anyone know what I mean?

That sounds amazing!! *wants*

Edited 2022-11-11 22:49 (UTC)

I wonder if ZYL's airy dismissal of the danger, as well as being his go-to strategy for defusing tension, is because Shen Wei is so powerful and so emotionally upset, and any serious explanation might feel like ceding to Shen Wei's authority.

Subconsciously, maybe? I think in that moment he mostly reacts on instinct, reaching for his usual defusing strategies. I think all of what you say about Zhao Yunlan wanting to protect his independence does play into his reactions, but it's not a conscious decision here.

(It's still early days for them, in a lot of ways - a lot of boundaries between them only get done away with during the blindness arc, right?)

That sounds amazing!! *wants*

It was! I wish I could find it again! (I thought for sure I had saved it, but ... /o\)

I think all of what you say about Zhao Yunlan wanting to protect his independence does play into his reactions, but it's not a conscious decision here.

Yeah, agreed. I think it shapes his defence mechanisms/defusing strategies (and how much of that dates back to growing up with ZXC? /wildly off-topic now /o\).

It's still early days for them, in a lot of ways - a lot of boundaries between them only get done away with during the blindness arc, right?

Yes! The blindness arc and the bomb-defusing scene. <3 <3 <3

and how much of that dates back to growing up with ZXC?

I think a lot of his issues around authority and autonomy and nonconformity go back to ZXC! And it's not at all off-topic, since it relates to his behaviour in this scene.

Actually, that's a good point about this scene: because ZXC's go-to would be scathing criticism, right? But Shen Wei's seething silence is "[this space intentionally left blank]" where criticism would otherwise go. He doesn't catalogue ZYL's flaws or say "You always..." or anything like that, the way ZXC would. In fact, the first verbal "criticism" in the scene is ZYL's incoherent protest at Shen Wei's rough treatment with the handkerchief.

When Shen Wei does finally speak, he just confirms the facts and asks how ZYL feels. I think the absence of character critique must really stand out as different from ZYL's experience with ZXC (subconsciously, if not consciously).

That's a good point! When it eventually comes, "you touched the Hallows again" is of course criticism, but there's so much silent seething frustration before that, and Zhao Yunlan doesn't know how to handle that. And even the implied "you didn't listen to me and did something reckless" hass a completely different vibe than the same thing would have from Zhao Xinci!

(Later, during the blindness arc, Shen Wei doesn't wait to speak any more - "are you suicidal" and all - but I feel like by then, Zhao Yunlan knows what's beneath it. He still deflects, but it doesn't have any of the "trying to get a handle on what's going on" feel from this scene.)

动 is use, not touch, right?

Thanks! I only have the English fansubs and for whatever reason that version says "touch."

I meant that I always thought he found these particular reports when he was researching the Hallows, because he was looking for weird black energy effects, because that is one thing the Hallows definitely do

That would make a lot of sense.

I would love to hear about these cases he found that involve ordinary people infected by black energy, not just the one with the temporal dysfunction!

I want to know about this, too!

Edited (ETA: typed the wrong word *facepalm*) 2022-11-12 02:02 (UTC)

Looking up 动 (which I should have done yesterday, sorry), apparently it can be "use" or "touch", so either way the translation is right.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

Scene discussion: The Nosebleed Scene

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject