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sid_guardian2022-03-04 10:51 pm
Focus on: Da Qing and Zhu Hong gossiping about Zhao Yunlan, Ep 8
Hello everyone! This is my first time posting one of these and I'm super excited!
Context: Zhao Yunlan, Zhu Hong and Da Qing are hanging in the main room of the SID when Zhao Yunlan gets a phone call from the DCU student (unbeknownst to Zhao Yunlan at this point) who is selling Zhao Yunlan the old books for that disaster of a scene that gives us all secondhand embarrassment. Da Qing and Zhu Hong proceed to gossip about him.
The scene is from Episode 8, and starts at around 6:40.
The Scene
(For the translation of the dialogue, I started off with the Youtube subtitles but ended up changing a bunch to my own. Happy to hear any alternative translations as well)
Just before this conversation/series of events begin, Zhao Yunlan is talking about getting Lin Jing to make Xiao Guo his electric baton weapon, and Zhu Hong is looking at him with stars in her eyes. 
The phone rings, and it's the DCU student asking if Zhao Yunlan still wants to buy her books.
Zhu Hong looks unhappy at hearing the girl's voice. (Which seems kind of excessive since any woman could presumably be calling Zhao Yunlan for any reason? The only reasonable explanation I can think of for this reaction — other than, you know, the insultingly stereotypical one — is that maybe that's his personal phone and nobody ever calls him on it.) But anyway, for how this scene is being set up, that's pretty predictable.
But I hadn't noticed Da Qing's expression until I rewatched the scene for this. Look at him! That's the look of someone smelling delicious, delicious gossip.
Zhao Yunlan hangs up, looking very pleased with himself.
Zhu Hong turns away, we visibly see him noticing this before walking away to the staircase. Da Qing watches him walk away, then immediately hops onto the couch and starts talking to Zhu Hong, the very picture of a nosy, gossipy coworker.
Da Qing:
我的天哪，是个女孩儿，都主动找上门儿了。
My god, it's a girl, looking for him.
(The literal translation of the last part of this sentence is "she's actually coming to the door to look for him". I haven't found a good way to translate this, but basically he's saying that she seems to be very enthusiastic in connecting with Zhao Yunlan)
Zhu Hong:
这有什么好奇怪的，你第一天认识他？
What's strange about that? Is this your first day knowing him?
Da Qing looks thoughtful as he gives himself a neck scritch.
The scene cuts to Zhao Yunlan calling Dragon City University asking for Shen Wei. Meanwhile, Da Qing looks absolutely tickled by this turn of events.
Zhu Hong:
沈巍？老赵怎么最近跟他杠上了？
Shen Wei? Why is Lao Zhao hanging around him?
Da Qing:
想给咋们特调处添新丁呗。
He's trying to get us some new blood in the SID.
The scene cuts to Zhao Yunlan talking to Shen Wei about having some old books for him. (Look at how happy he is at getting a chance to impress his crush!)
Zhu Hong:
这么积极主动惦记一个人，以前可从来没有过。
So actively thinking about someone...this has never happened before.
(I found this another hard one to translate. 积极主动 indicates a high degree of initiative and enthusiasm. The Youtube subtitles translate 惦记 as "concerned about" — which is one of the meanings — but Zhao Yunlan isn't exactly concerned about Shen Wei here per se, which is why I went with the more general "thinking". But 惦记 isn't just plain old having a couple of stray thoughts about somebody, it's like, thinking about them a lot.)
Da Qing:
老赵你还不知道，皮厚心黑，满肚子坏水，被他惦记上能有什么好事啊？
Don't you know Lao Zhao? He's got a thick skin and a black heart, and he's full of bad intentions. Being thought of by him is not a good thing.
It's interesting that this seems like a sort of callback to what Zhu Hong had said earlier, "Is this your first day knowing him?" The two of them are speaking from an apparently mutual understanding of "what Zhao Yunlan is like".
Another interesting choice is that we get Da Qing's disdainful expression above as he says the first part of the sentence. Then as he says "full of bad intentions", we cut to Zhao Yunlan looking absolutely thrilled after his call with Shen Wei, his silhouette outlined by bright sunlight, and in general not looking like he's got any bad intentions at all (well, he's certainly got some intentions all right, and he may be a little bit cocky, but mostly he's just genuinely happy.)
Zhu Hong:
可我总觉得这次不一样，套路用多了，保不齐哪天把自己给套进去
But I feel like this time is not the same. If he makes too many plays, one day he'll end up playing himself.
(I translated 套路 as "play" here in the Barney Stinson sense, which has a similar vibe.)
Zhu Hong's not buying Da Qing's glib comments. By now she doesn't just look jealous, she looks worried and sad. She's definitely got an inkling about what Shen Wei is/will become to Zhao Yunlan.
In the background, Da Qing makes a disbelieving sound and stretches nonchalantly, and the scene ends.
Some thoughts on Zhao Yunlan and his relationships
I find this scene interesting for a few reasons. Firstly, it's one of the references we get that gives a hint of what Zhao Yunlan's past history with romantic/sexual relationships might be — the others being Lin Jing and Chu Shuzhi's references to him being a "beast", and what Zhao Yunlan himself says later about being 五行缺爱 (I'm going to translate this as "not made for love" but I think I've seen a discussion on here about the meaning of this before — if anyone remembers feel free to link it!). I think that often, we see drama Zhao Yunlan's relationship history / approach to relationships being based on what it is in the novel, and I think that definitely works based on what we hear about Zhao Yunlan including in this scene. For reference, I'm going to pull out a couple lines from the novel from Chapter 21 that discusses this (translation is my own):
赵云澜一直觉得自己不算“同”，只能说审美范围比一般人宽广了一些，也比一般人更不要脸一些——漂亮男人和漂亮女人都能引起他的兴趣。
好在他虽然生冷不忌，但是人品还算马马虎虎地过得去，虽然不挑嘴，但也不至于饥不择食，有一个算一个，一段时间里绝对只有一个人，绝对不拈三惹四，是个好聚好散的模范情人。
不过此时距离他结束上一段关系，已经过了小半年的时间，沈老师又是这么一个对他胃口的类型，赵云澜心思不可避免地浮动了片刻。
是直接下手，还是放过？
沈巍是个一看就让人觉得“他很认真”的人。
赵云澜非常清楚自己是个什么货色，工作非主流不说，每天还有没完没了的应酬等着他，在外面花天酒地，自己的日子过得一塌糊涂，可谓是开名车，住狗窝。他不是什么能沉下心来，好好经营一段感情的良配，找个小幺蛾子无牵无挂地玩玩也就算了，估计许不起人家天长地久。最好少去招惹这种良家的好人，不过……
Zhao Yunlan has never considered himself gay, only that his taste is a bit broader than most people's, and that he is a bit more shameless than most — he is attracted to both beautiful men and women.
Although he likes all people, his character is more or less decent. He isn't picky, but he isn't desperate either. If he is with someone then he is with them; he is never with more than one person at a time and never cheats. He's a model lover who gets together and breaks up amicably.
However, it's been a while since his last relationship ended — almost half a year — and Professor Shen is exactly his type, so he can't help but think in that direction.
Should he go for it, or let him go?
Shen Wei looks like a very serious type of person.
Zhao Yunlan knows exactly what he himself is like. His job is unusual, and he is always out on social engagements full of drinking and debauchery. His life is a mess, what some would call "driving a fancy car and living in a pigsty." He isn't someone who can settle down and build a serious relationship. It's fine if he just has some fun with someone who is also not serious, but he can't really promise anyone "forever and always". So it's best that he doesn't mess with good, respectful people, but...
I think it's interesting that Zhu Hong says that she's never seen him so actively thinking about someone before. If we stay with the general outlines of the novel description, this could mean that he's just never been all that emotionally invested in any of his past relationships or hook ups. Or maybe it means he's not usually the one who's doing the pursuing, or at least consistently pursuing someone over this length of time.
But if we put the novel aside for the moment, there are also a couple of other possibilities: maybe he's always got people who's interested hanging around him, but he never takes them up on it. Or maybe he's always flirting but without any real intention behind it.
Either way, the evidence points to Zhao Yunlan not really having had a serious relationship before Shen Wei — at least not to the SID's knowledge, and if he had, it probably hadn't been a very good experience. The thing that makes Zhao Yunlan's relationship history in the drama really interesting to me is the sheer amount of emotional baggage he must have about intimacy. I mean, given what happened with his parents, and his distant/antagonistic relationship with his dad, I would be more surprised if he didn't have issues with intimacy. None of this is explicitly shown in the show, nor the impacts this might have had on his relationship with Shen Wei, and I just want to know!
The other interesting thing about this scene is Da Qing's words and actions. When I first watched it, I wasn't sure if Da Qing was being extremely dense about Zhu Hong's feelings, or if he was trying to discourage her. Either way, I thought what he said about Zhao Yunlan to be strange and unnecessarily harsh. Da Qing is supposed to be the person who has the closest and longest-lasting relationship with Zhao Yunlan, and knows him personally as well as professionally. Is this really what he thinks about him? Does any of the SID actually believe he's black-hearted (though thick-skinned is a given) and that being liked by him is a bad thing?
Later, after re-watching it and remembering what Zhao Yunlan says to Zhu Hong in Episode 31 when they finally talk about her feelings for him, I realized they are pretty similar in tone:
Zhao Yunlan:
你看啊，我这个人吧，嘴贫人贱，脾气还不好，温柔体贴装不了三天就原形毕露。而且我特别的败家，那过日子的事，根本就跟我没有半毛钱关系，闯起伙来是一套一套的，连我爹都嫌弃我。
Look at me, I'm glib, a jerk and bad-tempered. I can't fake being sweet and considerate for more than three days before my true colours show. I'm terrible with money, and I'm not someone who can settle down. I'm an expert at causing trouble, and even my dad can't stand me.
So now my theory is — is Da Qing "helping" Zhao Yunlan reject Zhu Hong here, using a method he might have seen Zhao Yunlan himself use? Has he done this before, even something that he does often? I find this kinda hilarious — Da Qing being Zhao Yunlan's anti-wingman.
Summary and Questions
I find this a really fun scene for several reasons. I think my favourite thing is how nosy Da Qing is and his absolute delight at seeing what Zhao Yunlan is getting up to. When you're a ten-thousand-year-old cat, you gotta get your entertainment from somewhere, ya know?
I love that Da Qing and Zhu Hong are just openly gossiping about their boss's personal life, while in the same room as him. I also generally (with one exception) like how the show deals with Zhu Hong's feelings for Zhao Yunlan. It's neither "she's a single girl in the main group, so obviously she likes the male lead", nor does it seem to come out of nowhere. It also generally (again, with one exception) treats her and her feelings with respect.
And finally, I just love Zhao Yunlan's expressions here. It's such light-hearted, giddy joy! (which is going to be crushed in the next scene, but shhh let me just enjoy it here)
- Do you think gossiping is a common past-time at the SID?
- How much do you think Da Qing and Zhao Yunlan know about Zhu Hong's feelings for Zhao Yunlan at this point?
- How much do you think the SID (in general, and Da Qing in particular) knows about Zhao Yunlan's personal life? What is he open about with them, and what does he hide?
- What do you think Zhao Yunlan's relationship history has been like? How do you think he feels / how aware is he of what he feels about Shen Wei at this point in the series?
- Why is Shen Wei collecting old books? Is it just an interest of his, or do you think he's looking for something (Hallows-related maybe)?
Any other thoughts? I would also love any fics or other fanwork recs about this scene or related themes! Thanks everyone <3
(I'm also using this post for the "Flirt" square on my Guardian Bingo card.)
no subject
Zhu Hong looks unhappy at hearing the girl's voice. (Which seems kind of excessive since any woman could presumably be calling Zhao Yunlan for any reason? The only reasonable explanation I can think of for this reaction — other than, you know, the insultingly stereotypical one — is that maybe that's his personal phone and nobody ever calls him on it.)
Li Qian and Shen Wei called him in episode 1 when the shadow man attacked, but that might have been unusual. Or maybe it's just obvious from his reaction that this isn't a work call? And he is arranging a meet-up with this mysterious woman. But I agree that Zhu Hong's reaction is over the top.
The literal translation of the last part of this sentence is "she's actually coming to the door to look for him". I haven't found a good way to translate this, but basically he's saying that she seems to be very enthusiastic in connecting with Zhao Yunlan
Maybe "chasing him"?
What's strange about that? Is this your first day knowing him?
I'm not sure here whether she's saying it's not strange that it's a girl (implying he's been interested in women in the past, and therefore she herself has a chance), or it's not strange that the woman has called him (implying he's attractive/worth chasing, and her own feelings are justified). What do you think?
He's trying to get us some new blood in the SID.
This makes me wonder how much Da Qing knows (or has deduced) about ZYL's feelings, intentions and scheme. Maybe Da Qing was there when ZYL cleared the appointment with Minister Gao?
(Look at how happy he is at getting a chance to impress his crush!)
Awwwww! :D :D :D
But 惦记 isn't just plain old having a couple of stray thoughts about somebody, it's like, thinking about them a lot.
Would "obsessing" fit?
Then as he says "full of bad intentions", we cut to Zhao Yunlan looking absolutely thrilled after his call with Shen Wei, his silhouette outlined by bright sunlight, and in general not looking like he's got any bad intentions at all (well, he's certainly got some intentions all right, and he may be a little bit cocky, but mostly he's just genuinely happy.)
Hmm, he is planning a con, so it's possible some of that happiness/self-satisfaction is the glow of a plan coming together -- buying the books and presenting them to Shen Wei as if he just had them lying around. Which is deceitful, whatever feelings have prompted it. (I think it's also the pleasure of hearing Shen Wei's voice and anticipating seeing him, though. *g*)
(I've written probably half a dozen different fics that end with ZYL starting to plan the book scheme, because I love the dramatic irony of him thinking he's being so clever when the reader knows he's going to crash and burn. Hee!)
But I feel like this time is not the same. If he makes too many plays, one day he'll end up playing himself.
(I translated 套路 as "play" here in the Barney Stinson sense, which has a similar vibe.)
This proves true almost immediately, in terms of the book con, but also works on an emotional level, I think. The more ZYL hangs around Shen Wei, the more obsessed he becomes. And the fact that Shen Wei isn't taken in by his plays only makes Shen Wei more alluring. :-)
(Damn, I can't find the link for the "not made for love" discussion either. Hopefully someone will!)
Oh, thanks for including that novel excerpt! *appreciates very much*
His life is a mess, what some would call "driving a fancy car and living in a pigsty."
LOL, that's him to a T.
The thing that makes Zhao Yunlan's relationship history in the drama really interesting to me is the sheer amount of emotional baggage he must have about intimacy. I mean, given what happened with his parents, and his distant/antagonistic relationship with his dad, I would be more surprised if he didn't have issues with intimacy.
Right? It's amazing he lets Da Qing so close, considering! I definitely feel like he's holding the SID at arm's length for the first half of the show.
I find this kinda hilarious — Da Qing being Zhao Yunlan's anti-wingman.
LOL! I love that! That makes so much sense. *g*
I think my favourite thing is how nosy Da Qing is and his absolute delight at seeing what Zhao Yunlan is getting up to. When you're a ten-thousand-year-old cat, you gotta get your entertainment from somewhere, ya know?
Hee! Absolutely.
It also generally (again, with one exception) treats her and her feelings with respect.
Can I ask what the exception is? (Is it her reaction to the phone call at the start of this scene, or something else I'm not thinking of right now?) No worries if you'd rather not say.
Do you think gossiping is a common past-time at the SID?
I think so. There's a scene in episode 1 where Zhu Hong and Lin Jing are gossiping about the Envoy, too. I think they have a normal level of idle chatter about each other. :-) But at the same time, I think this is probably as indiscreet as Da Qing gets about Zhao Yunlan. I doubt there's any "he brought someone home last night" kind of talk. (Now I'm wondering whether the rest of the team know about the state of ZYL's apartment, ha!)
How much do you think Da Qing and Zhao Yunlan know about Zhu Hong's feelings for Zhao Yunlan at this point?
I think Zhao Yunlan is too observant to have missed it, but he tries to ignore it and hopes it'll burn itself out. Da Qing has probably poked him about it and had it been brushed aside. I don't think Da Qing's in any doubt that Zhao Yunlan doesn't return her feelings.
How much do you think the SID (in general, and Da Qing in particular) knows about Zhao Yunlan's personal life? What is he open about with them, and what does he hide?
I think... at this stage, probably not much? Zhao Yunlan is leading through manipulation and threats-to-bonuses, and that works better if he's seen as an authority figure. The more people know about his personal life, the harder that kind of dynamic is to maintain, I think.
What do you think Zhao Yunlan's relationship history has been like? How do you think he feels / how aware is he of what he feels about Shen Wei at this point in the series?
I really like the ambiguity around ZYL's romantic history in the drama. I started off following the fannish trend of making him experienced (as per the novel) in fic, but I do like mixing it up a bit, and I've written fic where he's a virgin. I can totally buy either reading of him. I think his saying in episode 40 that he's stayed single for 20 years (implied: so he won't leave a grieving family behind when he inevitably dies on the job) explains why he might have abstained from relationships, or why he might just have avoided serious ones. :-)
I think he also has core feelings of worthlessness in interpersonal relationships, stemming from what happened with his mother and his father being who he is, and that is A LOT for anyone else to deal with.
As for his feelings for Shen Wei, I think at this point he's very much enjoying the flirtation and pursuit, and he doesn't realise how serious it is for him until he strikes out with the books -- at which point it hits him in a sickening oh crap! moment, and he goes and makes himself sick to try to climb back into denial. *pets him*
Why is Shen Wei collecting old books? Is it just an interest of his, or do you think he's looking for something (Hallows-related maybe)?
That's an excellent question! Maybe both? Maybe he's specifically looking for mentions of Dixingren/the Envoy/Kunlun, too? Idk!
Thanks again for this excellent post!! (Sorry this comment got so long...)
no subject
Maybe "chasing him"?
Ooh I like that!
Also, similar to what we were saying about Zhu Hong, Da Qing's response is kinda off here too. Like literally he is being, Oooh Yunlan just got a call from a GIRL! As if they are in middle school or something xD To me it only seems to make sense if he is trying to provoke Zhu Hong on purpose here, but then again Zhu Hong's response seems to confirm this means something...
Actually here's a new thought — do you think Da Qing already knows that Zhao Yunlan is planning the book con at this point, and that's why he is so sure this is gossip worthy?
I'm not sure here whether she's saying it's not strange that it's a girl (implying he's been interested in women in the past, and therefore she herself has a chance), or it's not strange that the woman has called him (implying he's attractive/worth chasing, and her own feelings are justified). What do you think?
Good point! I hadn't thought that it was referring to him being interested in women — I had kinda just taken for granted that the entire SID knew about his sexuality already. I've always thought it meant that there was always people chasing after him, so it isn't surprising to see that there's one more.
This makes me wonder how much Da Qing knows (or has deduced) about ZYL's feelings, intentions and scheme. Maybe Da Qing was there when ZYL cleared the appointment with Minister Gao?
Yeah this is an odd one, since in the next scene it sounds like ZYL is telling DQ about recruiting SW for the first time?
Would "obsessing" fit?
Hmm 惦记 is a softer feeling than obsessing. It doesn't have to be romantic either. It speaks to a level of care, and I would say even longing in a sense.
But at the same time, I think this is probably as indiscreet as Da Qing gets about Zhao Yunlan. I doubt there's any "he brought someone home last night" kind of talk. (Now I'm wondering whether the rest of the team know about the state of ZYL's apartment, ha!)
Yes I agree! I think Da Qing is similar to ZYL in the way that he appears really nonchalant but does put care into things (although more so for ZYL on the latter point, I think). But I do think DQ would absolutely complain to the SID about ZYL being a slob xD
I really like the ambiguity around ZYL's romantic history in the drama. I started off following the fannish trend of making him experienced (as per the novel) in fic, but I do like mixing it up a bit, and I've written fic where he's a virgin. I can totally buy either reading of him. I think his saying in episode 40 that he's stayed single for 20 years (implied: so he won't leave a grieving family behind when he inevitably dies on the job) explains why he might have abstained from relationships, or why he might just have avoided serious ones. :-)
I think he also has core feelings of worthlessness in interpersonal relationships, stemming from what happened with his mother and his father being who he is, and that is A LOT for anyone else to deal with.
Yes I also like the fact that we have room to play around with his romantic history. I find experienced and shamelessly flirty ZYL VERY fun to write, but I also like exploring the opposite as well. (Or well, I think he flirts a lot either way, but it depends if he does it with genuine intent or not.)
The idea of him avoiding relationships because he thinks he's going to die on the job is interesting. When I watched the scene, I had thought he was just being his usual glib self and playing off the risk as not that significant, but now that I think about it I can see this too. It matches, too, with what he tells Zhu Hong about not having expected things to end well for him since he took over as SID chief. Given what Zhao Xinci's SID job did to his parents, I can absolutely see him thinking this way. (Which brings to question why he became SID chief in the first place, and whether it was a position he applied for or if he was picked for it.)
The way that I read ZYL is that his lack of success with serious relationships was not really his choice. I felt like there was a kind of resignation when he talks about himself not being made for love that suggests he may have tried but it never worked out (probably because of the ton of emotional baggage, poor boy) — although you could definitely interpret that a number of different ways.
As for his feelings for Shen Wei, I think at this point he's very much enjoying the flirtation and pursuit, and he doesn't realise how serious it is for him until he strikes out with the books -- at which point it hits him in a sickening oh crap! moment, and he goes and makes himself sick to try to climb back into denial. *pets him*
OH! I had never thought of drinking himself to being sick as being a reaction to the failure with the books. I like this idea. I think of him waking up the next morning to find SW has been there as an "aha" moment, and I think this makes that even more fun — he gets himself drunk to hide from his feelings, only for it to lead him directly back to SW and more feelings.
Edit: Oops I meant to respond to this too, not sure how I missed it when writing the post.
Can I ask what the exception is? (Is it her reaction to the phone call at the start of this scene, or something else I'm not thinking of right now?) No worries if you'd rather not say.
It's the scene in the car where SW and ZYL says that she's still immature. There is no basis for that? What's the immaturity — that she likes someone who doesn't like her back? I love weilan of course, but is waiting for someone for 10,000 years and stalking your romantic interest more mature?
no subject
I generally don't do this, but in this case, I think it's probably down to narrative causality. Like, the show wanted them to gossip about this, and that was the thing that prompted them to.
Actually here's a new thought — do you think Da Qing already knows that Zhao Yunlan is planning the book con at this point, and that's why he is so sure this is gossip worthy?
Hm, I think that would make the fact that it's a girl selling the books even less relevant, wouldn't it?
I hadn't thought that it was referring to him being interested in women — I had kinda just taken for granted that the entire SID knew about his sexuality already.
This is making me go, "But what if they didn't??" *g*
Hmm 惦记 is a softer feeling than obsessing. It doesn't have to be romantic either. It speaks to a level of care, and I would say even longing in a sense.
That's such a lovely description, even if I don't have a good word to encapsulate it. <3 <3 <3
But I do think DQ would absolutely complain to the SID about ZYL being a slob xD
And they'd all think he was exaggerating... until he brought photographic evidence. *g*
It matches, too, with what he tells Zhu Hong about not having expected things to end well for him since he took over as SID chief. Given what Zhao Xinci's SID job did to his parents, I can absolutely see him thinking this way. (Which brings to question why he became SID chief in the first place, and whether it was a position he applied for or if he was picked for it.)
I think it's a mirror image of young Shen Wei, isn't it? He sees what needs to be done and figures he should be the one to do it: "otherwise it's better not to live in this world." And because he's committed to that, he doesn't let himself have nice things (except the car and the motorbike).
The way that I read ZYL is that his lack of success with serious relationships was not really his choice. I felt like there was a kind of resignation when he talks about himself not being made for love that suggests he may have tried but it never worked out (probably because of the ton of emotional baggage, poor boy) — although you could definitely interpret that a number of different ways.
I love that it can be read in so many ways. I tend to read it as his not having had those deep feelings before. Like, his heart isn't made to love that hard, in that committed family way... and he kind of puts Shen Wei into a difference category of, basically, soul mate, so that saying it isn't even a contradiction in ZYL's eyes? Idk.
he gets himself drunk to hide from his feelings, only for it to lead him directly back to SW and more feelings.
Yes! Plus the embarrassment of having Shen Wei see what a disaster he is, when he's already super-embarrassed about the con.
It's the scene in the car where SW and ZYL says that she's still immature.
Oh, yes, that. I guess I've always hoped that was a mistranslation of, like, "she's young, it's a crush." But also, they both have agendas in that conversation, about each other and their relationship, and downplaying Zhu Hong's feelings might be part of that? Or they might just be being sexist... ;-p
no subject
I really appreciate the translation notes, I always find that sort of thing very interesting, so thank you for those!
Do you think gossiping is a common past-time at the SID?
Even setting aside the oodles of fic where it is, I think so, yes. The SID group very much gives off that vibe, and they seem to like teasing each other, which is easier accomplished with gossip.
Why is Shen Wei collecting old books? Is it just an interest of his, or do you think he's looking for something (Hallows-related maybe)?
My money would be on it being an interest of his - putting up a notice at the university doesn't seem like a very targeted attempt at Hallows research, since Haixingren aren't even supposed to know about them and randomly finding a useful book this way seems quite unlikely. Maybe he has space on his bookshelves after getting rid of this batch of read books. Or maybe it's part of his 'I'm very human, definitely' cover - he doesn't really seem to have much in the way of hobbies beyond cooking, and academics are generally nosy in each other's direction; I could easily see people asking him what he likes to do with his time and him going '... read?' because that's an easy one and he does enjoy it.
How much do you think the SID (in general, and Da Qing in particular) knows about Zhao Yunlan's personal life? What is he open about with them, and what does he hide?
I think the SID in general doesn't actually know that much - Zhao Yunlan strikes me as someone who appears to be constantly sharing personal details without ever actually letting anything all that relevant slip out. Like, they probably all know exactly how he'd rate lollipop flavours, but not what he does at home in his spare time. Da Qing, on the other hand, I think knows a lot. He lives with Zhao Yunlan, and seems to be a bit of a confidante throughout, so it's more a question of what he can be bothered to be curious about. I do think both he and Zhao Yunlan know about Zhu Hong's feelings even at the beginning of the series, though perhaps not quite how serious she is about them - not that that means they're dealing with it in a useful adult manner...
no subject
Ooh, yes! Beautifully put. :-)
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My money would be on it being an interest of his - putting up a notice at the university doesn't seem like a very targeted attempt at Hallows research, since Haixingren aren't even supposed to know about them and randomly finding a useful book this way seems quite unlikely. Maybe he has space on his bookshelves after getting rid of this batch of read books. Or maybe it's part of his 'I'm very human, definitely' cover - he doesn't really seem to have much in the way of hobbies beyond cooking, and academics are generally nosy in each other's direction; I could easily see people asking him what he likes to do with his time and him going '... read?' because that's an easy one and he does enjoy it.
I was thinking that this is around the time that he is looking into the Mountain River Awl, but yeah it wouldn't be very efficient. I can definitely see both of those though — it being a genuine interest as well as a cover. In one of my WIPs, I have him using the cover excuse to justify it with himself, when in fact he just really likes books.
Da Qing, on the other hand, I think knows a lot. He lives with Zhao Yunlan, and seems to be a bit of a confidante throughout, so it's more a question of what he can be bothered to be curious about.
Haha that's true. I think he just can't be bothered with some stuff. Although it seems like ZYL's romantic dalliances is definitely a subject of interest xD
I do think both he and Zhao Yunlan know about Zhu Hong's feelings even at the beginning of the series, though perhaps not quite how serious she is about them - not that that means they're dealing with it in a useful adult manner...
I like this point! It's quite obvious that she has feelings for him, but I think ZYL was also surprised by the lengths she was willing to go, and definitely by how much his words and actions have affected her (as he learns in the dream).
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Da Qing looks thoughtful as he gives himself a neck scritch.
Such a cat moment ;)
The thing that makes Zhao Yunlan's relationship history in the drama really interesting to me is the sheer amount of emotional baggage he must have about intimacy. ...None of this is explicitly shown in the show, nor the impacts this might have had on his relationship with Shen Wei, and I just want to know!
Yes! One wonders if, as the novel passage you provided suggests, Shen Wei is so different from any of the people he's been (casually or otherwise) involved with before that it kind of touches a new and different place in him...
Da Qing is supposed to be the person who has the closest and longest-lasting relationship with Zhao Yunlan, and knows him personally as well as professionally. Is this really what he thinks about him?
I like reading this scene as very much Da Qing being a cat--sure, Lao Zhao has all these bad qualities, but that has nothing to do with Da Qing's affection for him, humans work that way but they're weird.
I also generally (with one exception) like how the show deals with Zhu Hong's feelings for Zhao Yunlan. ... nor does it seem to come out of nowhere. It also generally (again, with one exception) treats her and her feelings with respect.
Agree! Zhao Yunlan, for all his messed-up-ness, is admirable and attractive and Zhu Hong is smart enough to see it, and she copes with her feelings pretty much like an adult.
Not much useful here on my part but thank you for a very thoughtful post!
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Such a cat moment ;)
I love it all of Da Qing's little cat mannerisms in human form!
Yes! One wonders if, as the novel passage you provided suggests, Shen Wei is so different from any of the people he's been (casually or otherwise) involved with before that it kind of touches a new and different place in him...
Good question! In the novel there really is this kind of mystical connection, like his soul just knows even if he doesn't at first. But for the drama, I like playing with this in fics. It could also be that unexplainable kind of connection as well (and I like how Bai Yu says it in the podcast, about how there are some people in life that you just trust). I also like the idea that actually, Zhao Yunlan is just the type of person who falls fast and hard, and it's often come with heartbreak, but Shen Wei is just as intense and yes, Zhao Yunlan likes him a bit more than all the others before too.
I like reading this scene as very much Da Qing being a cat--sure, Lao Zhao has all these bad qualities, but that has nothing to do with Da Qing's affection for him, humans work that way but they're weird.
Like above — I love Da Qing being very Cat so I can vibe with this!
Agree! Zhao Yunlan, for all his messed-up-ness, is admirable and attractive and Zhu Hong is smart enough to see it, and she copes with her feelings pretty much like an adult.
Yes! I like how the show shows that her feelings matter even if they're not returned. And she struggles with it but she still deals with it pretty maturely.
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But I hadn't noticed Da Qing's expression until I rewatched the scene for this. Look at him! That's the look of someone smelling delicious, delicious gossip. His expression is so like that! I always like how Chu Shuzhi is in the background probably playing Solitare like: I can't hear any of this or see any of this, but Da Qing is all: My whiskers are tingling!
Another interesting choice is that we get Da Qing's disdainful expression above as he says the first part of the sentence. Then as he says "full of bad intentions", we cut to Zhao Yunlan looking absolutely thrilled after his call with Shen Wei, his silhouette outlined by bright sunlight, and in general not looking like he's got any bad intentions at all (well, he's certainly got some intentions all right, and he may be a little bit cocky, but mostly he's just genuinely happy.) OH! I never noticed this dichtomy! That's excellent!!!
Zhu Hong's not buying Da Qing's glib comments. By now she doesn't just look jealous, she looks worried and sad. She's definitely got an inkling about what Shen Wei is/will become to Zhao Yunlan. I agree! I think she understands just how different ZYL is acting and how this relationship is going to be different for him!!
So now my theory is — is Da Qing "helping" Zhao Yunlan reject Zhu Hong here, using a method he might have seen Zhao Yunlan himself use? Has he done this before, even something that he does often? I find this kinda hilarious — Da Qing being Zhao Yunlan's anti-wingman. I'm down with anti-wingman!! DQ all: ZYL will thank me for this later.
Do you think gossiping is a common past-time at the SID? Yes, yes I do think they gossip LOL.
How much do you think Da Qing and Zhao Yunlan know about Zhu Hong's feelings for Zhao Yunlan at this point? I always felt that had some sense of it, enough that they tried to head it off before it went anywhere.
How much do you think the SID (in general, and Da Qing in particular) knows about Zhao Yunlan's personal life? What is he open about with them, and what does he hide?
What do you think Zhao Yunlan's relationship history has been like? I always felt he played up the flirtatious side of himself and only let the SID crew see the superficial side of it when he taked about relationships.
How do you think he feels / how aware is he of what he feels about Shen Wei at this point in the series? HMMM. This is such a good question. I think perhaps he knows there's something different here, but not quite admitting it to himself yet.
Why is Shen Wei collecting old books? Is it just an interest of his, or do you think he's looking for something (Hallows-related maybe)? Yes, I always assumed it was hallows related. Or maybe Dixingren knowledge related!
OMG what an awesome write-up! Thank you so much for sharing this episode breakdown!!!! :D
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I always like how Chu Shuzhi is in the background probably playing Solitare like: I can't hear any of this or see any of this, but Da Qing is all: My whiskers are tingling!
Hehe yes he probably is! In the novel CSZ is obsessed with minesweeper, iirc. Though I also think it would be pretty funny if CSZ is actually listening with rapt attention, he just doesn't want to show it because it would ruin his reputation xD
I always felt he played up the flirtatious side of himself and only let the SID crew see the superficial side of it when he taked about relationships.
I agree! Which makes it hard for us to figure out, when they're talking about him, what's real and what's just their perception. I think also the SID even realizes to some extent — if not at the beginning of the series then definitely as things get going — that the person ZYL portrays himself to be is a bit of a mask, they're just not going to say it and break his illusion.
HMMM. This is such a good question. I think perhaps he knows there's something different here, but not quite admitting it to himself yet.
The question is whether he knows his own "investigations" are bullshit yet or if he's still clinging to plausible deniability xD
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Ha, this is such a key question. He does get very smiley and dreamy in the next scene, when he's telling DQ what fun it is to work with Shen Wei -- but then, people are so good at deluding themselves... :-)
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Zhu Hong: Old Zhao looks passionate and friendly, but he has a cold heart.
咱们老赵啊 外表热情 内心冷漠
This is my first time seeing him so concerned about someone.
从来没见他对谁那么上过心
And it's towards Professor Shen.
怎么就偏偏对这沈教授 这么来劲呢
(And then Guo Changcheng butts in to say: Well, I... think... Chief Zhao is nice to people.
那个 我 我觉得 赵处对 对人还是挺好的
*pets him* :-)
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Something to look out for during the rewatch. :D
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Yes, 200%. They're very teasing and bantery with each other, gossipping fits right into the vibe, and we see them do it a couple times! Iirc lol
How much do you think Da Qing and Zhao Yunlan know about Zhu Hong's feelings for Zhao Yunlan at this point?
I actually think Da Qing is a bit more oblivious to her feelings than Zhao Yunlan, by the end of the scene he almost reads "wait, why are you jealous?" to me. Or maybe it's more like "why should you care?" because Da Qing is very cat in his relationships, who Zhao Yunlan is dating/banging doesn't really matter to him (probably too because it never was really serious before, so he's still in that mindset this early on. He doesn't yet know that Shen Wei will matter long-term I'm their lives, unlike Zhu Hong who has an inkling.) Relationships come and pass for Da Qing, so he just goes along with the flow.
OTOH I think Zhao Yunlan is aware but thinks more of it as an unfortunate crush and hopes it'll pass soon if he keeps ignoring her.
How much do you think the SID (in general, and Da Qing in particular) knows about Zhao Yunlan's personal life? What is he open about with them, and what does he hide?
Da Qing probably knows the most just due to living with Zhao Yunlan
and having helped raise him, but otherwise I think Zhao Yunlan is more of a private person? He plays a part more than being open and vulnerable, hence the black heart impression. I doubt any of them know of his insecurities or reasons. Emotions, feelings, all the deep stuff? Paste some laughter and misdirection over it. And be shameless with what doesn't bother him as a defence mechanism to hide the vulnerabilities. (I'm curious if they know about him being bi though. It feels like something he wouldn't bother hide, and Zhu Hong certainly takes Shen Wei as a serious rival.)What do you think Zhao Yunlan's relationship history has been like? How do you think he feels / how aware is he of what he feels about Shen Wei at this point in the series?
At this point I'm unable to disentangle novel canon from his characterisation in this aspect. I distinctly remember thinking of him much more as a playboy before reading the novel, a lot more one night stands and casual sex. Since the novel, I see him more as a serial monogamist, constantly changing partners as he's searching for /something/ that's missing, trying again and again until he's tired and ready to give up, not sure what he's doing wrong. Going through all the right gestures, but his heart isn't in it until Shen Wei (and Shen Wei will only accept the genuine stuff from him, hence his early rejections of Zhao Yunlan's flirting-with-ulterior-motives).
Why is Shen Wei collecting old books? Is it just an interest of his, or do you think he's looking for something (Hallows-related maybe)?
Because he's ten thousand years old and a
nerdscholar 😂