Focus on Fu You: The Yashou are a people of peace

[waterscroll]

Fu You (a drama-only character) is the Yashou High Chief and Snake Tribe leader who led the Alliance together with her human counterpart Ma Gui. In episode 34 she says that she made the Hallows, together with Ma Gui, in order to benefit all of Haixing. Her goal after the war is over is for everyone to go to different places: Humans stay where they are, Dixingians go underground and Yashou go ‘far away.’ The reason she wants this is that, as she says, the Yashou are a peace-loving people. In episode 35 she is present but almost entirely silent when Ma Gui makes the treaty with Dixing and gives them the Hallows.

In episode 34, in a conversation with Ma Gui, she asks if ‘this timeline’ will change. So she at least believes in multiple timelines, and may have seen others.

Ma Gui is in love with Fu You but (despite Zhao Yunlan’s encouragement) never quite manages to tell her. In the end she and the Yashou leave Ma Gui and the humans. Ma Gui almost tells her his feelings but she interrupts him, telling him that as leaders they are not free to indulge themselves.

In episode 37 we see a flashback to Ma Gui trying to make a seed from Fu You’s hometown grow in the hope that it will make her smile again. After Zhao Yunlan helps him grow it he gives it to her, and she says that she will pass it on to her children and her children’s children. It ends up becoming the Sacred Branch that Zhu Hong uses to become High Chief of the Yashou.

When Zhu Hong sees Fu You in episode 38 she immediately falls to her knees, showing that the Snake Tribe at least remembers her.

In episode 40 Fu You makes a last appearance to tell Zhao Yunlan how to restore the Lantern, while Ma Gui warns him that if he does this he will die.


Fu You and Ma Gui tell Zhao Yunlan how to save Dixing and what it will cost him.


I find Fu You so fascinating because she had a key role in creating the separation of peoples that gets so fraught and complicated during the series, as well as the Hallows. Between that and her comment about timelines, there seems to be a lot to explore in her character.

Some questions:

1. Does Fu You seem snake-like in any way or remind you of any fictional tropes about snakes? Des she have anything in common with the other Snake Tribe Yashou we meet? (Zhu Hong, Fourth Uncle)
2. Why did she want Humans, Dixingians and Yashou to all live separately? Why did she think that was what would bring peace?
3. How was Fu You remembered among the different Yashou tribes?
4. What was her role in making the Hallows? Why do you think she thought they were important?
5. Did she actually see any other timelines? Or try to change this one?
6. Did she love Ma Gui or was it one-sided? Do you think their relationship reflects on the Shen Wei/Zhao Yunlan in any particular way? Or on the Zhu Hong&Zhao Yunlan relationship?
7. What was her relationship with Shen Wei like? Was her relationship with Shen Wei different from Ma Gui’s? Do you think Shen Wei knew about her plan that Dixingians should return to Dixing? If so, what do you think he thought of it?

Fanworks:

Fu You is tagged in eight fics on AO3. I’ve also seen her appear untagged in other stories as part of the background in fics set during Alliance times.

Cosmic Variables by PK20 features a Fu You who knows that timelines can change and is working on making that happen.

Meeting in a Time of Peace by china_shop has Shen Wei and Fourth Uncle talk about Fu You and what she was like and what she wanted.

My ficlet Two Peoples explores the different goals that Fu You and Ma Gui had for their alliance.

Please let us know what other interesting takes you’ve seen (or written) on Fu You in fic, especially where she might not be tagged or might only have a minor role.

So - come and talk about Fu You! Share links to meta, picspams, and related fanworks, new or old! Self-recs whole-heartedly encouraged. Basically, this is the place for anything you want to say or link to about Fu You.

Important: If you're commenting with meta/discussion/thoughts, please say whether you're coming from a novel perspective, a drama perspective, or a blend of the two, so we don't end up talking past each other. Thanks!

Comments

[solo]

Great post - I never really thought about Fu You much before.

Maybe because of this, I really only have thoughts on a couple of these questions. Knee-jerk reaction type thoughts:

2. Humans and Dixingren both seem ambitous and prone to fighting over what they believe is theirs. Yashou in general (witness snake and flower tribe) seem to be more like, 'you leave me in peace and I leave you in peace' but if they hang around Humans and Dixingren, they'd constantly be encouraged to take sides, criticized for not doing so, and potentially end up as collateral damage. So... avoiding these volatile races just makes sense if you cherish peace and quiet.

(Less sure about the Crow tribe but that is solely down to Ya Qing, and who knows what drove her to wanting to 'revitalize' the tribe - maybe Humans were simply encroaching on their territory too much. And anyway, who knows if the other Crows, beyond deferring to her as leader, felt the same way.)

And 6. I think it was probably one-sided. (Poor Ma Gui.) She seeems far too 'together' when delivering that 'we can't indulge ourselves' line. If she loved him, she could be sad about it? But she's not, so I think she's probably glad she has this excuse. She likes him, he's a comrade in arms, but please no feels.

[waterscroll]

Thank you! Yeah, I've been overthinking Fu You a lot recently, so I'm glad this is useful.

She seems far too 'together' when delivering that 'we can't indulge ourselves' line. If she loved him, she could be sad about it? But she's not, so I think she's probably glad she has this excuse. She likes him, he's a comrade in arms, but please no feels.

That was my sense as well, that she sees him more as a co-worker than a potential romantic partner or even close friend. But I could also see reading it the other way.

So... avoiding these volatile races just makes sense if you cherish peace and quiet.

Yeah, it's interesting. The Snake Tribe seems to have tried to do this, at least in Fourth Uncle's time. It makes me wonder how Zhu Hong as High Chief, who knows about and respects Fu You, thinks about and interprets Fu You's legacy.

[sakana17]

I think Fu You is really interesting, and these are all great questions! I would love to know about her role in making the Hallows - like, how did she know what to make? Where did the idea for making them (in those specific objects) come from?

6. The first time I watched, I felt she did like Ma Gui, but had already made peace with the fact that they would need to separate and live apart. After rewatchings, I feel it's more one-sided on Ma Gui's part (poor guy), and Fu You valued him as an ally and colleague but not more than that.

7. The more I rewatch those scenes, the more I feel like neither Fu You nor Ma Gui were particularly close to Shen Wei. I didn't get the sense that Fu You had a different relationship with Shen Wei than Ma Gui did, but that's a really interesting idea! I'll keep it in mind when I hit those episodes during my current rewatch. Aside from Shen Wei confiding so much to Zhao Yunlan which he apparently hasn't confided to anyone else, the other thing I think about a lot is the Hallows. Fu You made them with Ma Gui, and even if they don't know exactly how they work at all times (again raising the question of why & how they made them), they seem to know more about the Hallows than Shen Wei does. In the ancient Haixing scenes, Shen Wei appears to know only that they exist & they're important, but not what they do. So I feel that Fu You and Ma Gui never told him much about the Hallows. I guess to preserve the timeline? But it makes me wonder if Shen Wei sensed he was being kept in the dark, and what he felt about it.

For question 2, I like solo's answer. Fu You wants to live in peace, and that seems to be what most Yashou want, too. Even dealing with just humans or just Dixingren, it seems inevitable that the Yashou would be drawn into conflict.

[waterscroll]

Thank you! Yes, she's so interesting.

I would love to know about her role in making the Hallows - like, how did she know what to make? Where did the idea for making them (in those specific objects) come from?

I'm very curious as well. I wonder if for her they were something of a Yashou thing, as they are all things that change the nature of the person who uses them from one thing to another. Since Yashou have the ability to change from one kind of thing to another, the Hallows are a way of giving that ability to other kinds of people. And four of them to connect to the four Yashou tribes.

(I like to think that since Fu You made them together with Ma Gui that they each made them with completely different intentions and goals, which is why they are so unpredictable.)

Fu You valued him as an ally and colleague but not more than that.

That was my sense too, but I could see reading it the other way as well.

the more I feel like neither Fu You nor Ma Gui were particularly close to Shen Wei

Yeah. He seems to be excluded from a lot of their conversations. I blame it on partly on Ma Gui crushing on Fu You and wanting to spend lots of time alone with her. I'd love to see an AU in which Ma Gui was crushing on Shen Wei instead of Fu You, I bet it would have changed a lot of history.

I didn't get the sense that Fu You had a different relationship with Shen Wei than Ma Gui did

From what I've seen they seem to relate to him together, but I do see Fu You and Ma Gui as very different people with different goals so it makes sense that they would relate to Shen Wei somewhat differently.

In the ancient Haixing scenes, Shen Wei appears to know only that they exist & they're important, but not what they do.

It's so interesting that Shen Wei isn't at all involved in making the Hallows and seems to barely understand them and yet in the end they go to Dixing. If they were for Dixing all along, why not talk to someone from Dixing about them?

(Although maybe she did and it just wasn't Shen Wei - I noticed Fu You called the Dixingian treaty-signer her friend. I am so curious about that guy.)

And I do wonder if she planned the Hallows to be for Dixing all along or if that was a last-minute change. She does say in episode 34 that she made them for Haixing, but she also says that she wants the Dixingians to go back to Dixing, which was not a good place to live. So maybe they hadn't been intended for Dixing, but as Fu You came to understand how bad things were there she realized that she could only insist that Dixingians go to Dixing if she gives them something to make life there somewhat better?

But it makes me wonder if Shen Wei sensed he was being kept in the dark, and what he felt about it.

Yes, I wonder too.

Thank you for your comment!

[china_shop]

I wonder if for her they were something of a Yashou thing, as they are all things that change the nature of the person who uses them from one thing to another. Since Yashou have the ability to change from one kind of thing to another, the Hallows are a way of giving that ability to other kinds of people. And four of them to connect to the four Yashou tribes.

Ooh, that's such an interesting thought... ♥

[trobadora]

And I do wonder if she planned the Hallows to be for Dixing all along or if that was a last-minute change. She does say in episode 34 that she made them for Haixing, but she also says that she wants the Dixingians to go back to Dixing, which was not a good place to live.

Doesn't she say something like "for the benefit of Haixing"? That could totally mean "restore Dixing so all those Dixingren will go away and leave us alone" ...

[trobadora]

The first time I watched, I felt she did like Ma Gui, but had already made peace with the fact that they would need to separate and live apart.

Can I ask what made you change your mind? If you remember, of course. I still see it that way - that she liked him, but had already decided it wasn't going to happen because she wanted something else for her people.

But it makes me wonder if Shen Wei sensed he was being kept in the dark, and what he felt about it.

I think it definitely contributed to his sense of isolation that had him react so strongly to "Kunlun". They were all three leaders of the alliance, but Fu You and Ma Gui seem to have been more of a unit, keeping Shen Wei out of a lot of things. Tbh I always thought there was some anti-Dixing prejudice involved there.

[china_shop]

They were all three leaders of the alliance, but Fu You and Ma Gui seem to have been more of a unit, keeping Shen Wei out of a lot of things. Tbh I always thought there was some anti-Dixing prejudice involved there.

Given who their enemy is, I imagine that the humans and Yashou would naturally have been suspicious when the Envoy and his men first turned up to join the alliance, and so kept him at arm's length to start with. And the young Envoy might well have taken that as The Way Things Are and held himself aloof thereafter, you know?

[sakana17]

Can I ask what made you change your mind? If you remember, of course.

I don't remember exactly, and when I rewatched the episodes, I could see it either way. I feel they're friends, but I don't get a vibe that Fu You wants more than that. I think overall, it's that I can tell Ma Gui is really sad about Fu You and the Yashou leaving, but Fu You doesn't seem sad about it. When the Yashou leave, and she says the line about being leaders and not indulging, I don't feel it's because if he confesses to her then, it would be painful/hard for her to leave him. It felt more like, she'll miss her friend.

[extrapenguin]

1. Does Fu You seem snake-like in any way or remind you of any fictional tropes about snakes? Des she have anything in common with the other Snake Tribe Yashou we meet? (Zhu Hong, Fourth Uncle)
I think that wanting to go live in peace away from all the humans etc is a very Snake Tribe trait – Fourth Uncle shares it, and Zhu Hong is explicitly said to be an atypical snake for wanting to go live in the city.

3. How was Fu You remembered among the different Yashou tribes?
Zhu Hong, at least, drops down to her knees upon seeing her on Hallows TV, so she is venerated in the Snake Tribe if nowhere else.

5. Did she actually see any other timelines? Or try to change this one?
This is an intriguing question and I'm trying to figure out a mechanism for it. Maybe this is why she thought the Hallows were important, they showed her a few alternate timelines? IDK. Sounds like a fic prompt?

6. Did she love Ma Gui or was it one-sided? Do you think their relationship reflects on the Shen Wei/Zhao Yunlan in any particular way? Or on the Zhu Hong&Zhao Yunlan relationship?
I agree with everyone else that it was one-sided on Ma Gui's part. I suspect Fu You appreciated the advantages it gave her (she and Ma Gui were definitely the leaders of the Alliance, with Shen Wei as a sort of junior partner; idk if that'd have changed if Ma Gui didn't have a crush on her) but wasn't interested in pursuing it.

7. What was her relationship with Shen Wei like? Was her relationship with Shen Wei different from Ma Gui’s? Do you think Shen Wei knew about her plan that Dixingians should return to Dixing? If so, what do you think he thought of it?
She doesn't seem to have spoken to him much/interacted with him outside the Ma Gui-Fu You unit. She might've had other Dixingian friends, or been close to a predecessor of Shen Wei's (if Shen Wei, say, got into his position at such a young age due to his superior getting killed) or some other Dixingian subfaction. I suspect there'd have been multiple points of view on what to do once the rebels were vanquished; given Fu You's preferences for segregation, I would find it very plausible if she preferred the faction that wanted all Dixingians to go back to Dixing.

[waterscroll]

Maybe this is why she thought the Hallows were important, they showed her a few alternate timelines?

Yeah, the Hallows seem...not obviously helpful, and it isn't clear why anyone thought they were a good idea, but if they helped fix the timeline (or get a better one?) they start to make sense.

I suspect there'd have been multiple points of view on what to do once the rebels were vanquished; given Fu You's preferences for segregation, I would find it very plausible if she preferred the faction that wanted all Dixingians to go back to Dixing.

I like this idea very much - that there was a segregationist faction among Dixingians and Shen Wei wasn't part of it but the treaty-signer was. Hm.

Thank you for commenting!

[extrapenguin]

Yeah, the Hallows seem...not obviously helpful, and it isn't clear why anyone thought they were a good idea, but if they helped fix the timeline (or get a better one?) they start to make sense.
Ma Gui made an offhand remark about being surprised about their function/"So the legends were true!" so ... I have no idea who actually made them, or who made the blueprints. (Maybe future discussion on the Hallows will help?) I guess they knew there were time-related properties, and Fu You wanted to affect the timeline/maybe desired to undo the meteor collision?

[plingo_kat]

I do wish we had more of Ye Olde Haixing in the show, esp Fu You and Ma Gui!

1. I actually thought she was a flower tribe Yashou, possibly because of her outfit? Possibly because she had the mystical branch/flower artifact? I didn't remember her saying she was Snake Tribe -- will have to pay more attention during a rewatch.

2. I'll second solo's interpretation here -- I think she wanted the conflict to stop. Given that they were planning to separate Dixing and Haixing, it would make sense for the Yashou to go their own way as well.

3. I do like the idea that she's their version of Ma Gui or HPS, part of the trinity of warn heroes / important historical figures. Like the first president of the US, for US history.

5. It would be totally fascinating if the answer were 'yes'! I don't necessarily think she would have tried to change the current one, given ZYL tells them it all works out, but the idea that she (and maybe Ma Gui?) lived through or saw at least one alternate timeline has a lot of fic potential...

6. I definitely read it as one-sided. Or even if she did have feelings, they weren't as strong as his. Definitely see a parallel to Zhu Hong / ZYL, where one is in love but the other just has an all-consuming higher priority (for Fu You it's her people, for ZYL it's SW). RIP Ma Gui.

7. This is an interesting question! I think that SW probably respects her more than Ma Gui, even if subconsciously, given that she seems like more of a supreme leader than Ma Gui? (Maybe some bias there about power too, possibly.) If that makes any sense? Also she's a more neutral party as Yashou than Haixingren, although SW has allied himself with Haixingren. However, like others have said, SW doesn't seem particularly close to Fa You OR Ma Gui. So it'd be a distant kind of respect, like an employee to a good boss.

[waterscroll]

In episode 37 Ya Quing says that Fu You was a Snake. But you're right, it's not something that Fu You herself says.

but the idea that she (and maybe Ma Gui?) lived through or saw at least one alternate timeline has a lot of fic potential...

Yes!

efinitely see a parallel to Zhu Hong / ZYL, where one is in love but the other just has an all-consuming higher priority

Yeah, it sort of felt like one relationship was symbolically closing the circle of the other. Especially since the end result of Zhu Hong's unrequited crush was that ZYL supported her leadership and helped the Yashou become a people of peace again.

I think that SW probably respects her more than Ma Gui, even if subconsciously,

Yeah, I could see it that way, for the reasons you say.

Thank you for commenting!

[plingo_kat]

Oh, so it was Ya Qing who said it! I will be on the lookout.

RE: fic, it would be so interesting if they lived through like, an apocalyptic scenario where HPS wasn't on hand to counter Ye Zun from taking the Hallows or something... Hm.

Yeah, it sort of felt like one relationship was symbolically closing the circle of the other.
I like the way you described that! Yes, the possibility of a relationship is closed off for something else to take its place.

[trobadora]

I actually thought she was a flower tribe Yashou, possibly because of her outfit? Possibly because she had the mystical branch/flower artifact?

I thought that too, originally! It really doesn't come through in the YOHE sequence at all; it's only later that we find out she was a Snake.

Or even if she did have feelings, they weren't as strong as his.

That's my take, yeah.

[plingo_kat]

Glad to see I wasn't the only one!

[china_shop]

This is such a great post, and I've really enjoyed reading all the comments, too. (And thank you for the rec! *beams* ♥)

1. Does Fu You seem snake-like in any way or remind you of any fictional tropes about snakes? Des she have anything in common with the other Snake Tribe Yashou we meet? (Zhu Hong, Fourth Uncle)

I agree with everyone else: she wants peace for her people, and she's an isolationist. These are both Snake tendencies. Also, I wonder whether the magic healing cream they used on Zhao Yunlan's hands was her invention, given Shen Wei says in ep 4 that "the Snake tribe excels at pharmaceuticals".

2. Why did she want Humans, Dixingians and Yashou to all live separately? Why did she think that was what would bring peace?

I think the Yashou wanted to go away to mourn their dead, rebuild their lives (and possibly their villages) after the war, and protect their traditions.

3. How was Fu You remembered among the different Yashou tribes?

The Yashou seem to have preserved their history (Fourth Uncle says, “We must look to the Black-Cloaked Envoy. After all, he brought us peace ten thousand years ago.”), and we know that the Tribe Leaders remember Fu You. Ya Qing says, "Fu You, our ancestor, was a snake." I'm not sure about the translation, but I think it's interesting that Ya Qing calls Fu You "our ancestor", not "your ancestor" when talking to Fourth Uncle. The tribes may have grown apart, but they come from one history.

And for such peace-loving people, anyone who brought them peace must be especially respected, I think?

4. What was her role in making the Hallows? Why do you think she thought they were important?

Oh, huh, for some reason I thought Ma Gui was solely responsible for making the Hallows. I think because he's the one doing the science experiments with the seed, and Zhao Yunlan likens him to Lin Jing. I must have missed something. :-)

(And really, they're supposed to be running the military. Do they have time for both of them to be making things, presumably in quite a speculative way? They have tactics to strategise!)

5. Did she actually see any other timelines? Or try to change this one?

She says, "Say, do you think this timeline will change?" and Ma Gui reassures her, saying they already know the outcome. So I thought she was worried that the future they saw in the Hallows video conference isn't fixed. She knows Zhao Yunlan time-travelled, and she's wondering whether everything really will turn out as he said in his own future, or whether things can still go wrong. That's how I read it.

6. Did she love Ma Gui or was it one-sided? Do you think their relationship reflects on the Shen Wei/Zhao Yunlan in any particular way? Or on the Zhu Hong&Zhao Yunlan relationship?

I initially thought it was one-sided, and he knew it, and that's why he didn't speak out. But I just rewatched their farewell (ep 35, 26:40) and I think she is sad to say goodbye. When she says, "We have more important missions. As a leader, sometimes we can't do our own things", I think she's speaking for herself as well as Ma Gui. That said, I don't personally think she's in love with him, but that they've grown close in their shared leadership, and she values him as a friends and his intellectual companionship. She's not just leaving him -- she's leaving an intensely challenging, emotional and quite possibly intellectually invigorating part of her life behind too.

(Doesn't she say something about wanting a life of poetry and peace? I'd love to know if any of her poetry survived the centuries!)

7. What was her relationship with Shen Wei like? Was her relationship with Shen Wei different from Ma Gui’s? Do you think Shen Wei knew about her plan that Dixingians should return to Dixing? If so, what do you think he thought of it?

I had assumed that all three leaders negotiated the Treaty between them. And it's the nameless Dixingren who says, "My fellows and I will go back to Dixing. From now, we should close all connections between Haixing and Dixing." (though it's not clear if he's saying that because it's in accordance with the Treaty he's just signed). Present-day Dixing certainly seems to see the Treaty as the Envoy's doing (or is that just Ye Zun?).

Anyway, thanks to Zhao Yunlan's confirmation in the Hallows video conference, Fu You and Ma Gui know that they win the war and secure peace in Haixing. I wonder if they told Shen Wei that. He carries the burden of his soldiers' deaths so heavily, I like to think they've given him some reassurance, but maybe they can't for some reason...

Other thoughts:

I'm interested in Fu You's backstory, and the contradiction of her being a peace-loving Yashou while also a respected war leader, sending her people (and other troops) off to fight and die for the cause. Was it her who founded the Allied Forces, or did the humans approach the Yashou first? Was she High Chief before the war (and how did she get the job, given there was no sacred wood then)? Did she discover a natural talent for military leadership, and did she enjoy the role or find it a heavy burden (or both)? I wonder what made the Yashou decide to join/form the Allied Forces -- whether the Rebels attacked them directly, forcing them out of their isolationism, or if the Yashou realised, like Fourth Uncle eventually did 10k years later, that people are only safe if they stand together.

Also, I really love her smile, her clothes, and her kindness -- as well as her fondness for Da Qing. :-)

Btw, just so you know, the "eight fics on AO3" link is broken.

[waterscroll]

Thank you for letting me know about the broken link! Some of the other links were broken too. They should be fixed now.

wonder whether the magic healing cream they used on Zhao Yunlan's hands was her invention, given Shen Wei says in ep 4 that "the Snake tribe excels at pharmaceuticals".

I was wondering that too...and since humans don't have anything like that now, that this was a significant loss to humans from the separation.

Ya Qing calls Fu You "our ancestor", not "your ancestor" when talking to Fourth Uncle

Yes, that was very interesting. I wonder if she meant ancestor in a spiritual sense or if the different tribes can intermarry in a way that a Crow could be the child of a Snake.

for some reason I thought Ma Gui was solely responsible for making the Hallows.

For some reason I thought that too! I'm not sure why though. In 34:36 Fu You says 'We made the Hallows'. But I keep wondering if there's another place that I missed where it says Ma Gui made them, since I had that impression as well.

I'd love to know if any of her poetry survived the centuries!

That sounds like a great fic idea! I'd guess she wrote fascinating poetry.

Fu You and Ma Gui know that they win the war and secure peace in Haixing. I wonder if they told Shen Wei that.

Yeah, I wonder.

I like your questions about her backstory and I'm thinking about them. I might end up writing more fic for her eventually, she's such a fascinating character.

Thank you for your comment!

[china_shop]

and since humans don't have anything like that now, that this was a significant loss to humans from the separation.

Yes! I do feel that Zhao Yunlan should have brought a jar of it back to the present with him! *g*

I wonder if she meant ancestor in a spiritual sense or if the different tribes can intermarry in a way that a Crow could be the child of a Snake.

That would be strange, but maybe Yashou genetics are just that weird! :-) (I always think that Zhu Hong is probably half-human, even though her mother is never mentioned, and that that may be why she can't transform all the way like the other snakes. After all, her father went to live with in the human city, "enjoying love and romance" there... Presumably if her mother had done the same, it would have been noteworthy?)

In 34:36 Fu You says 'We made the Hallows'.

She might not be speaking literally there. Then again, she might! I love that we have lots of room to play with interpretations.

[trobadora]

Also, I wonder whether the magic healing cream they used on Zhao Yunlan's hands was her invention, given Shen Wei says in ep 4 that "the Snake tribe excels at pharmaceuticals".

Oooh, good point!

I wonder if the Snake Tribe may even still have something like that, and they're just not sharing?

I think the Yashou wanted to go away to mourn their dead, rebuild their lives (and possibly their villages) after the war, and protect their traditions.

Agreed. And that's all understandable! But I don't understand the whole "complete segregation" idea at all, or why anyone would think it was a good idea. Do you have any thoughts on that?

Ya Qing says, "Fu You, our ancestor, was a snake." I'm not sure about the translation, but I think it's interesting that Ya Qing calls Fu You "our ancestor", not "your ancestor" when talking to Fourth Uncle.

I looked at the Chinese - she just calls her the Yashou ancestor, but that's still claiming Fu You for all Yashou, not just the Snake Tribe.

She says, "Say, do you think this timeline will change?" and Ma Gui reassures her, saying they already know the outcome. So I thought she was worried that the future they saw in the Hallows video conference isn't fixed. She knows Zhao Yunlan time-travelled, and she's wondering whether everything really will turn out as he said in his own future, or whether things can still go wrong. That's how I read it.

Yeah, me too. Like I said in my comment below, I think she's thinking about what time travel rules apply for them, and if seeing the future means it's fixed or not.

I had assumed that all three leaders negotiated the Treaty between them. And it's the nameless Dixingren who says, "My fellows and I will go back to Dixing. From now, we should close all connections between Haixing and Dixing." (though it's not clear if he's saying that because it's in accordance with the Treaty he's just signed).

I did think all three of them - Ma Gui, Fu You and Shen Wei - had plans for a treaty, but perhaps the details didn't get hashed out until Shen Wei was already gone? And I do think going back to Dixing and rebuilding would have been part of it (because why should Dixingren have to abandon Dixing if it can be restored it? but the closing of connections doesn't sound like something Shen Wei would have advocated for. Maybe his nameless successor just wanted his people to get away from everyone else now that they finally had peace, and because Fu You had a similar philosophy, it ended up encoded in the treaty in a way Shen Wei might not have approved of, had he had any say. (Though even if he was part of settling that part of the treaty, it may just mean he felt he had no other choice, given the other parties' attitudes towards Dixing ... Honestly, I always got the impressont the alliance wasn't all that friendly towards Dixingren, even the ones on their side.)

Present-day Dixing certainly seems to see the Treaty as the Envoy's doing (or is that just Ye Zun?).

I never know how literally to take it. Do people in general believe Shen Wei negotiated the treaty as it stands? Or is it just that everything he did, with the alliance and defeating the rebels, is what led up to the treaty and so he's responsible in that sense?

Fu You and Ma Gui know that they win the war and secure peace in Haixing. I wonder if they told Shen Wei that. He carries the burden of his soldiers' deaths so heavily, I like to think they've given him some reassurance, but maybe they can't for some reason...

I don't think they did, and I don't think reassuring Shen Wei would have crossed their mind. They never strike me as caring about him or what he might feel, apart from what he brings to the alliance in terms of fighting power. And of course Shen Wei himself made himself into a fearless warrior figure because he didn't feel he could let anyone see his weaknesses ...

I wonder what made the Yashou decide to join/form the Allied Forces -- whether the Rebels attacked them directly, forcing them out of their isolationism, or if the Yashou realised, like Fourth Uncle eventually did 10k years later, that people are only safe if they stand together.

I think Fu You's isolationism, like Fourth Uncle's, is strong enough that she'd need a huge incentive to start actively involving herself in a war. So an attack by the Rebels would make sense to me!

[china_shop]

I wonder if the Snake Tribe may even still have something like that, and they're just not sharing?

There was that injection Zhu Hong had that ZYL used to revive Zhu Jiu. Who knows what else they have up their sleeves?!

But I don't understand the whole "complete segregation" idea at all, or why anyone would think it was a good idea. Do you have any thoughts on that?

Maybe there was friction between the peoples that we didn't see, with humans discriminating against Yashou? Suspicious of them because they were too much like Dixingren? Or maybe the Tribe Elders were pushing for a return to isolationism and traditional life? Idk, I have some sympathy for wanting to have a separate space, though obviously cutting off ties completely is extreme and counterproductive. Perhaps that was only intended to be for a short while, until everyone had rebuilt and recovered.

Maybe once cities started sprouting up, some Yashou moved to live there, in search of new experiences. Ooh, maybe there were Yashou cities?! Ten thousand years is a long time!

I looked at the Chinese - she just calls her the Yashou ancestor, but that's still claiming Fu You for all Yashou, not just the Snake Tribe.

Thanks for checking. <3

Yeah, me too. Like I said in my comment below, I think she's thinking about what time travel rules apply for them, and if seeing the future means it's fixed or not.

Maybe even wondering if they can have their cake and eat it too (win the war AND somehow save ZYL from having to sacrifice himself to the lantern)?

because why should Dixingren have to abandon Dixing if it can be restored it?

Yes, exactly! It's their home. And again, maybe the closing of connections was supposed to be temporary. Making sure that there are no Rebel sympathisers left who might come up and make trouble, re-establishing themselves, and then easing back into more intermingling and mutual trade? After all, there are those two official portals in contemporary era, between Dixing and the Yashou territory, and Dixing and Dragon City -- they must have been installed for a reason.

ETA: Ooooh, and if that's the case -- that the shutting themselves off is only temporary -- maybe that's what happens at the end of the show, and the portals will automatically re-open after a time!?!?!?!?

Do people in general believe Shen Wei negotiated the treaty as it stands? Or is it just that everything he did, with the alliance and defeating the rebels, is what led up to the treaty and so he's responsible in that sense?

Or is it all Ye Zun propaganda, blaming Shen Wei for all the ills of the world?

[china_shop]

Btw, I just posted an excerpt from an old Fu You POV WIP, which I still hope to finish one day. :-)

[trobadora]

Great post!

In episode 35 she is present but almost entirely silent when Ma Gui makes the treaty with Dixing and gives them the Hallows.

This is an exellent observation! It's so reflective of everything that happens later, with Dixing and Haixing having relations but the Yashou apparently having no (official) connection with either.

In episode 34, in a conversation with Ma Gui, she asks if ‘this timeline’ will change. So she at least believes in multiple timelines, and may have seen others.

The way I understood it, she's asking what time travel rules their universe operates under: is it automatically a closed loop, where it's always already happened and the future and the past are locked in? Or can it be changed, for better or worse - can the loop be (deliberately or accidentally) broken?

I don't think any of the characters know this for sure, but they're all very determined to uphold the timeline that will bring them ten thousand years of peace.

I find Fu You so fascinating because she had a key role in creating the separation of peoples that gets so fraught and complicated during the series, as well as the Hallows.

Yes! Despite her part in the alliance, she is the original segregationist. Clearly Ma Gui would have been up for closer relations at least between Yashou and humans. *g* I do wonder if the whole "Hallows shutting the portals between Dixing and Haixing" is her influence, as well as part of the idea that not only should Dixingren return to Dixing (fine, IMO) but that they should keep completely separate.

1. Does Fu You seem snake-like in any way or remind you of any fictional tropes about snakes? Des she have anything in common with the other Snake Tribe Yashou we meet? (Zhu Hong, Fourth Uncle)

None of the Snake Tribe seem at all like the cliché of a "snake person", but there's a clear throughline from Fu You's to Fourth Uncle's isolationism.

Why did she want Humans, Dixingians and Yashou to all live separately? Why did she think that was what would bring peace?

I don't really understand this way of thinking. Refusing to engage with others is never going to promote peace in the long term.

How was Fu You remembered among the different Yashou tribes?

The Snake tribe seems to revere her, if Zhu Hong's reaction is any indication, and given what Ya Qing says, they all seem to regard her as their (spiritual) ancestor. After all, she is the Yashou who strongly shaped what the post-war world would look like, ten thousand years ago.

What was her role in making the Hallows? Why do you think she thought they were important?

I wonder if she and Ma Gui were just trying to make use of the meteor metal, and the result turned out a bit more than they'd bargained for.

Did she actually see any other timelines? Or try to change this one?

That would make a great premise for a fic!

Did she love Ma Gui or was it one-sided? Do you think their relationship reflects on the Shen Wei/Zhao Yunlan in any particular way? Or on the Zhu Hong&Zhao Yunlan relationship?

My impression was always that she did have feelings for him, but she'd decided early on that she had other priorities, and it wasn't going to happen.

What was her relationship with Shen Wei like? Was her relationship with Shen Wei different from Ma Gui’s? Do you think Shen Wei knew about her plan that Dixingians should return to Dixing? If so, what do you think he thought of it?

I don't think either she or Ma Gui had any close relationship with Shen Wei. The humans and Yashou seem to have worked together much more closely, while the Dixingren were a more separate ally. I'm not sure how much Fu You and Ma Gui trusted them, outside of strictly war-related things. And they clearly kept a lot from Shen Wei; he could not have missed that ...

I think going back to Dixing and rebuilding it was definitely part of the original plan that Shen Wei was part of - and with enough resources, there's no reason they should have to entirely abandon their previous home and all its history. I don't think Shen Wei was thinking of it in terms of complete separation, though.

[waterscroll]

Thank you, and thank you for all your comments!

I don't really understand this way of thinking. Refusing to engage with others is never going to promote peace in the long term.

And whatever her intentions, the effects of isolating Dixing with the Hallows seem to have been...pretty bad.

I started thinking about Fu You because I started off angry with her for all the destruction caused by the Hallows and the isolation of Dixing. And when I went looking for whose idea the Hallows and the isolation were, I found a brave, kind leader who only wanted peace. I think this is excellent writing, actually, that at the origins of all this suffering we find a basically decent person who seems to be doing the best she can under difficult circumstances to do the right thing for everyone.

But yes, the isolation of Dixing caused a great deal of suffering. And yes, in the long term it led to another war. I'm sympathetic to arguments that she didn't have a better option, and that at least this way there was ten thousand years of peace. (Or peace for Haixing, I'm not sure we can call the conditions in Dixing peaceful. But I suppose they were better early on.) Maybe this really was the best timeline out of available options.

Doesn't she say something like "for the benefit of Haixing"? That could totally mean "restore Dixing so all those Dixingren will go away and leave us alone" ...

I'm sympathetic to this reading too - that even though she calls the Dixingian treaty-signer her friend she wasn't thinking about what was good for Dixing as much as how to get Dixingians away from her people.

So yeah, I'm still somewhat angry with her, but I think I can see her perspective better. She's fascinating, anyway.