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sid_guardian2020-07-03 07:36 am
waterscroll) wrote in sid_guardian2020-07-03 07:36 am
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Focus on Fu You: The Yashou are a people of peace
Fu You (a drama-only character) is the Yashou High Chief and Snake Tribe leader who led the Alliance together with her human counterpart Ma Gui. In episode 34 she says that she made the Hallows, together with Ma Gui, in order to benefit all of Haixing. Her goal after the war is over is for everyone to go to different places: Humans stay where they are, Dixingians go underground and Yashou go ‘far away.’ The reason she wants this is that, as she says, the Yashou are a peace-loving people. In episode 35 she is present but almost entirely silent when Ma Gui makes the treaty with Dixing and gives them the Hallows.
In episode 34, in a conversation with Ma Gui, she asks if ‘this timeline’ will change. So she at least believes in multiple timelines, and may have seen others.
Ma Gui is in love with Fu You but (despite Zhao Yunlan’s encouragement) never quite manages to tell her. In the end she and the Yashou leave Ma Gui and the humans. Ma Gui almost tells her his feelings but she interrupts him, telling him that as leaders they are not free to indulge themselves.
In episode 37 we see a flashback to Ma Gui trying to make a seed from Fu You’s hometown grow in the hope that it will make her smile again. After Zhao Yunlan helps him grow it he gives it to her, and she says that she will pass it on to her children and her children’s children. It ends up becoming the Sacred Branch that Zhu Hong uses to become High Chief of the Yashou.
When Zhu Hong sees Fu You in episode 38 she immediately falls to her knees, showing that the Snake Tribe at least remembers her.
In episode 40 Fu You makes a last appearance to tell Zhao Yunlan how to restore the Lantern, while Ma Gui warns him that if he does this he will die.
Fu You and Ma Gui tell Zhao Yunlan how to save Dixing and what it will cost him.
I find Fu You so fascinating because she had a key role in creating the separation of peoples that gets so fraught and complicated during the series, as well as the Hallows. Between that and her comment about timelines, there seems to be a lot to explore in her character.
Some questions:
1. Does Fu You seem snake-like in any way or remind you of any fictional tropes about snakes? Des she have anything in common with the other Snake Tribe Yashou we meet? (Zhu Hong, Fourth Uncle)
2. Why did she want Humans, Dixingians and Yashou to all live separately? Why did she think that was what would bring peace?
3. How was Fu You remembered among the different Yashou tribes?
4. What was her role in making the Hallows? Why do you think she thought they were important?
5. Did she actually see any other timelines? Or try to change this one?
6. Did she love Ma Gui or was it one-sided? Do you think their relationship reflects on the Shen Wei/Zhao Yunlan in any particular way? Or on the Zhu Hong&Zhao Yunlan relationship?
7. What was her relationship with Shen Wei like? Was her relationship with Shen Wei different from Ma Gui’s? Do you think Shen Wei knew about her plan that Dixingians should return to Dixing? If so, what do you think he thought of it?
Fanworks:
Fu You is tagged in eight fics on AO3. I’ve also seen her appear untagged in other stories as part of the background in fics set during Alliance times.
Cosmic Variables by PK20 features a Fu You who knows that timelines can change and is working on making that happen.
Meeting in a Time of Peace bychina_shop has Shen Wei and Fourth Uncle talk about Fu You and what she was like and what she wanted.
My ficlet Two Peoples explores the different goals that Fu You and Ma Gui had for their alliance.
Please let us know what other interesting takes you’ve seen (or written) on Fu You in fic, especially where she might not be tagged or might only have a minor role.
So - come and talk about Fu You! Share links to meta, picspams, and related fanworks, new or old! Self-recs whole-heartedly encouraged. Basically, this is the place for anything you want to say or link to about Fu You.
Important: If you're commenting with meta/discussion/thoughts, please say whether you're coming from a novel perspective, a drama perspective, or a blend of the two, so we don't end up talking past each other. Thanks!
In episode 34, in a conversation with Ma Gui, she asks if ‘this timeline’ will change. So she at least believes in multiple timelines, and may have seen others.
Ma Gui is in love with Fu You but (despite Zhao Yunlan’s encouragement) never quite manages to tell her. In the end she and the Yashou leave Ma Gui and the humans. Ma Gui almost tells her his feelings but she interrupts him, telling him that as leaders they are not free to indulge themselves.
In episode 37 we see a flashback to Ma Gui trying to make a seed from Fu You’s hometown grow in the hope that it will make her smile again. After Zhao Yunlan helps him grow it he gives it to her, and she says that she will pass it on to her children and her children’s children. It ends up becoming the Sacred Branch that Zhu Hong uses to become High Chief of the Yashou.
When Zhu Hong sees Fu You in episode 38 she immediately falls to her knees, showing that the Snake Tribe at least remembers her.
In episode 40 Fu You makes a last appearance to tell Zhao Yunlan how to restore the Lantern, while Ma Gui warns him that if he does this he will die.
Fu You and Ma Gui tell Zhao Yunlan how to save Dixing and what it will cost him.
I find Fu You so fascinating because she had a key role in creating the separation of peoples that gets so fraught and complicated during the series, as well as the Hallows. Between that and her comment about timelines, there seems to be a lot to explore in her character.
Some questions:
1. Does Fu You seem snake-like in any way or remind you of any fictional tropes about snakes? Des she have anything in common with the other Snake Tribe Yashou we meet? (Zhu Hong, Fourth Uncle)
2. Why did she want Humans, Dixingians and Yashou to all live separately? Why did she think that was what would bring peace?
3. How was Fu You remembered among the different Yashou tribes?
4. What was her role in making the Hallows? Why do you think she thought they were important?
5. Did she actually see any other timelines? Or try to change this one?
6. Did she love Ma Gui or was it one-sided? Do you think their relationship reflects on the Shen Wei/Zhao Yunlan in any particular way? Or on the Zhu Hong&Zhao Yunlan relationship?
7. What was her relationship with Shen Wei like? Was her relationship with Shen Wei different from Ma Gui’s? Do you think Shen Wei knew about her plan that Dixingians should return to Dixing? If so, what do you think he thought of it?
Fanworks:
Fu You is tagged in eight fics on AO3. I’ve also seen her appear untagged in other stories as part of the background in fics set during Alliance times.
Cosmic Variables by PK20 features a Fu You who knows that timelines can change and is working on making that happen.
Meeting in a Time of Peace by
china_shop has Shen Wei and Fourth Uncle talk about Fu You and what she was like and what she wanted.My ficlet Two Peoples explores the different goals that Fu You and Ma Gui had for their alliance.
Please let us know what other interesting takes you’ve seen (or written) on Fu You in fic, especially where she might not be tagged or might only have a minor role.
So - come and talk about Fu You! Share links to meta, picspams, and related fanworks, new or old! Self-recs whole-heartedly encouraged. Basically, this is the place for anything you want to say or link to about Fu You.
Important: If you're commenting with meta/discussion/thoughts, please say whether you're coming from a novel perspective, a drama perspective, or a blend of the two, so we don't end up talking past each other. Thanks!
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I agree with everyone else: she wants peace for her people, and she's an isolationist. These are both Snake tendencies. Also, I wonder whether the magic healing cream they used on Zhao Yunlan's hands was her invention, given Shen Wei says in ep 4 that "the Snake tribe excels at pharmaceuticals".
I think the Yashou wanted to go away to mourn their dead, rebuild their lives (and possibly their villages) after the war, and protect their traditions.
The Yashou seem to have preserved their history (Fourth Uncle says, “We must look to the Black-Cloaked Envoy. After all, he brought us peace ten thousand years ago.”), and we know that the Tribe Leaders remember Fu You. Ya Qing says, "Fu You, our ancestor, was a snake." I'm not sure about the translation, but I think it's interesting that Ya Qing calls Fu You "our ancestor", not "your ancestor" when talking to Fourth Uncle. The tribes may have grown apart, but they come from one history.
And for such peace-loving people, anyone who brought them peace must be especially respected, I think?
Oh, huh, for some reason I thought Ma Gui was solely responsible for making the Hallows. I think because he's the one doing the science experiments with the seed, and Zhao Yunlan likens him to Lin Jing. I must have missed something. :-)
(And really, they're supposed to be running the military. Do they have time for both of them to be making things, presumably in quite a speculative way? They have tactics to strategise!)
She says, "Say, do you think this timeline will change?" and Ma Gui reassures her, saying they already know the outcome. So I thought she was worried that the future they saw in the Hallows video conference isn't fixed. She knows Zhao Yunlan time-travelled, and she's wondering whether everything really will turn out as he said in his own future, or whether things can still go wrong. That's how I read it.
I initially thought it was one-sided, and he knew it, and that's why he didn't speak out. But I just rewatched their farewell (ep 35, 26:40) and I think she is sad to say goodbye. When she says, "We have more important missions. As a leader, sometimes we can't do our own things", I think she's speaking for herself as well as Ma Gui. That said, I don't personally think she's in love with him, but that they've grown close in their shared leadership, and she values him as a friends and his intellectual companionship. She's not just leaving him -- she's leaving an intensely challenging, emotional and quite possibly intellectually invigorating part of her life behind too.
(Doesn't she say something about wanting a life of poetry and peace? I'd love to know if any of her poetry survived the centuries!)
I had assumed that all three leaders negotiated the Treaty between them. And it's the nameless Dixingren who says, "My fellows and I will go back to Dixing. From now, we should close all connections between Haixing and Dixing." (though it's not clear if he's saying that because it's in accordance with the Treaty he's just signed). Present-day Dixing certainly seems to see the Treaty as the Envoy's doing (or is that just Ye Zun?).
Anyway, thanks to Zhao Yunlan's confirmation in the Hallows video conference, Fu You and Ma Gui know that they win the war and secure peace in Haixing. I wonder if they told Shen Wei that. He carries the burden of his soldiers' deaths so heavily, I like to think they've given him some reassurance, but maybe they can't for some reason...
Other thoughts:
I'm interested in Fu You's backstory, and the contradiction of her being a peace-loving Yashou while also a respected war leader, sending her people (and other troops) off to fight and die for the cause. Was it her who founded the Allied Forces, or did the humans approach the Yashou first? Was she High Chief before the war (and how did she get the job, given there was no sacred wood then)? Did she discover a natural talent for military leadership, and did she enjoy the role or find it a heavy burden (or both)? I wonder what made the Yashou decide to join/form the Allied Forces -- whether the Rebels attacked them directly, forcing them out of their isolationism, or if the Yashou realised, like Fourth Uncle eventually did 10k years later, that people are only safe if they stand together.
Also, I really love her smile, her clothes, and her kindness -- as well as her fondness for Da Qing. :-)
Btw, just so you know, the "eight fics on AO3" link is broken.
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wonder whether the magic healing cream they used on Zhao Yunlan's hands was her invention, given Shen Wei says in ep 4 that "the Snake tribe excels at pharmaceuticals".
I was wondering that too...and since humans don't have anything like that now, that this was a significant loss to humans from the separation.
Ya Qing calls Fu You "our ancestor", not "your ancestor" when talking to Fourth Uncle
Yes, that was very interesting. I wonder if she meant ancestor in a spiritual sense or if the different tribes can intermarry in a way that a Crow could be the child of a Snake.
for some reason I thought Ma Gui was solely responsible for making the Hallows.
For some reason I thought that too! I'm not sure why though. In 34:36 Fu You says 'We made the Hallows'. But I keep wondering if there's another place that I missed where it says Ma Gui made them, since I had that impression as well.
I'd love to know if any of her poetry survived the centuries!
That sounds like a great fic idea! I'd guess she wrote fascinating poetry.
Fu You and Ma Gui know that they win the war and secure peace in Haixing. I wonder if they told Shen Wei that.
Yeah, I wonder.
I like your questions about her backstory and I'm thinking about them. I might end up writing more fic for her eventually, she's such a fascinating character.
Thank you for your comment!
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Yes! I do feel that Zhao Yunlan should have brought a jar of it back to the present with him! *g*
That would be strange, but maybe Yashou genetics are just that weird! :-) (I always think that Zhu Hong is probably half-human, even though her mother is never mentioned, and that that may be why she can't transform all the way like the other snakes. After all, her father went to live with in the human city, "enjoying love and romance" there... Presumably if her mother had done the same, it would have been noteworthy?)
She might not be speaking literally there. Then again, she might! I love that we have lots of room to play with interpretations.
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Maybe children of mixed ancestry just end up one or the other? Since it's pretty hard to imagine being part-Crow part-Flower.
Now I'm thinking about what happens when two Crow Tribe Yashou with recessive Snake genes have a Snake baby. Or vice versa. Especially since the Snakes seem isolated not just from Humans and Dixingians but from other Yashou.
Or, okay, if we're going there: maybe it's cultural rather than genetic? Maybe Yashou babies are initiated into their tribe in a way that allows them to transform into a particular being, but all the Yashou have genetic elements of all of them?
So much worldbuilding one could do with the Yashou...
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Oooh, good point!
I wonder if the Snake Tribe may even still have something like that, and they're just not sharing?
I think the Yashou wanted to go away to mourn their dead, rebuild their lives (and possibly their villages) after the war, and protect their traditions.
Agreed. And that's all understandable! But I don't understand the whole "complete segregation" idea at all, or why anyone would think it was a good idea. Do you have any thoughts on that?
Ya Qing says, "Fu You, our ancestor, was a snake." I'm not sure about the translation, but I think it's interesting that Ya Qing calls Fu You "our ancestor", not "your ancestor" when talking to Fourth Uncle.
I looked at the Chinese - she just calls her the Yashou ancestor, but that's still claiming Fu You for all Yashou, not just the Snake Tribe.
She says, "Say, do you think this timeline will change?" and Ma Gui reassures her, saying they already know the outcome. So I thought she was worried that the future they saw in the Hallows video conference isn't fixed. She knows Zhao Yunlan time-travelled, and she's wondering whether everything really will turn out as he said in his own future, or whether things can still go wrong. That's how I read it.
Yeah, me too. Like I said in my comment below, I think she's thinking about what time travel rules apply for them, and if seeing the future means it's fixed or not.
I had assumed that all three leaders negotiated the Treaty between them. And it's the nameless Dixingren who says, "My fellows and I will go back to Dixing. From now, we should close all connections between Haixing and Dixing." (though it's not clear if he's saying that because it's in accordance with the Treaty he's just signed).
I did think all three of them - Ma Gui, Fu You and Shen Wei - had plans for a treaty, but perhaps the details didn't get hashed out until Shen Wei was already gone? And I do think going back to Dixing and rebuilding would have been part of it (because why should Dixingren have to abandon Dixing if it can be restored it? but the closing of connections doesn't sound like something Shen Wei would have advocated for. Maybe his nameless successor just wanted his people to get away from everyone else now that they finally had peace, and because Fu You had a similar philosophy, it ended up encoded in the treaty in a way Shen Wei might not have approved of, had he had any say. (Though even if he was part of settling that part of the treaty, it may just mean he felt he had no other choice, given the other parties' attitudes towards Dixing ... Honestly, I always got the impressont the alliance wasn't all that friendly towards Dixingren, even the ones on their side.)
Present-day Dixing certainly seems to see the Treaty as the Envoy's doing (or is that just Ye Zun?).
I never know how literally to take it. Do people in general believe Shen Wei negotiated the treaty as it stands? Or is it just that everything he did, with the alliance and defeating the rebels, is what led up to the treaty and so he's responsible in that sense?
Fu You and Ma Gui know that they win the war and secure peace in Haixing. I wonder if they told Shen Wei that. He carries the burden of his soldiers' deaths so heavily, I like to think they've given him some reassurance, but maybe they can't for some reason...
I don't think they did, and I don't think reassuring Shen Wei would have crossed their mind. They never strike me as caring about him or what he might feel, apart from what he brings to the alliance in terms of fighting power. And of course Shen Wei himself made himself into a fearless warrior figure because he didn't feel he could let anyone see his weaknesses ...
I wonder what made the Yashou decide to join/form the Allied Forces -- whether the Rebels attacked them directly, forcing them out of their isolationism, or if the Yashou realised, like Fourth Uncle eventually did 10k years later, that people are only safe if they stand together.
I think Fu You's isolationism, like Fourth Uncle's, is strong enough that she'd need a huge incentive to start actively involving herself in a war. So an attack by the Rebels would make sense to me!
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There was that injection Zhu Hong had that ZYL used to revive Zhu Jiu. Who knows what else they have up their sleeves?!
Maybe there was friction between the peoples that we didn't see, with humans discriminating against Yashou? Suspicious of them because they were too much like Dixingren? Or maybe the Tribe Elders were pushing for a return to isolationism and traditional life? Idk, I have some sympathy for wanting to have a separate space, though obviously cutting off ties completely is extreme and counterproductive. Perhaps that was only intended to be for a short while, until everyone had rebuilt and recovered.
Maybe once cities started sprouting up, some Yashou moved to live there, in search of new experiences. Ooh, maybe there were Yashou cities?! Ten thousand years is a long time!
Thanks for checking. <3
Maybe even wondering if they can have their cake and eat it too (win the war AND somehow save ZYL from having to sacrifice himself to the lantern)?
Yes, exactly! It's their home. And again, maybe the closing of connections was supposed to be temporary. Making sure that there are no Rebel sympathisers left who might come up and make trouble, re-establishing themselves, and then easing back into more intermingling and mutual trade? After all, there are those two official portals in contemporary era, between Dixing and the Yashou territory, and Dixing and Dragon City -- they must have been installed for a reason.
ETA: Ooooh, and if that's the case -- that the shutting themselves off is only temporary -- maybe that's what happens at the end of the show, and the portals will automatically re-open after a time!?!?!?!?
Or is it all Ye Zun propaganda, blaming Shen Wei for all the ills of the world?
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I like that idea! Wanting a separate space makes total sense, but permanent total isolation, not so much, and I don't want Fu You to have been that blinkered. So yeah, maybe she only meant it to be temporary, but then the Yashou got stuck with that as "what Fu You wanted"?
Ooh, maybe there were Yashou cities?! Ten thousand years is a long time!
I like that idea a lot!
And again, maybe the closing of connections was supposed to be temporary. Making sure that there are no Rebel sympathisers left who might come up and make trouble, re-establishing themselves, and then easing back into more intermingling and mutual trade? After all, there are those two official portals in contemporary era, between Dixing and the Yashou territory, and Dixing and Dragon City -- they must have been installed for a reason.
Yes, good point. Ma Gui did establish those two portals, so maybe he at least did want to reopen relationships. And it did happen to some degree between Dixing and Haixing, though the Yashou passage seems to never have been opened.
I do wonder what relationships between Dixing and Haixing looked during the time Dixing was doing better? Was there regular diplomatic contact, or was it only sporadic?
Ooooh, and if that's the case -- that the shutting themselves off is only temporary -- maybe that's what happens at the end of the show, and the portals will automatically re-open after a time!?!?!?!?
YES PLEASE!!!!!!!
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Or they didn't, and there have been periods throughout history where relations were closer and more distant. And then the more industrialised humans got, the more Yashou withdrew into their own spaces?
Me too! Snake City, Flower City, and Crow City, all adjoining. And Dragon City not far off, for the humans...
Oh, was that him?
Yes! And was there trade? Maybe there were occasional intermarriages, and that's why humans have these latent powers that the serum can bring out?
\o/!!! :D :D :D
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I just looked it up again. Episode 37, 11 minutes in, Da Qing says he remembers: "Back when the aliens migrated to Dixing, Ma Gui did prepare two passages. One's under the great locust tree. He passed the other to Fu You, for the Yashou to guard through the ages in case it was ever needed."
(Bit strange for Da Qing calling Dixingren "aliens". But that's apparently what 异种人 means. Huh.)
There's so much potential fwor worldbuilding regarding the different species during those 10,000 years! I want to see more of it!
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So either Da Qing had later contact with Ma Gui, or this was done as part of the settlement after the war before Da Qing left, then -- right? I'm increasingly convinced the separation was meant by all parties to be temporary. *willfully reading it the way I want to* ;-)
After all, IIRC the Treaty prohibits Dixingren not misusing their powers in Haixing, and that would be a needless provision if Dixingren were never expected to be in Haixing...
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I like your interpretation. *nods*
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I just looked up the subs for ep 35, after the time loop. First we have newly awoken Shen Wei telling the Regent, "Dixingians desire freedom and escape to the ground, is reasonable. But we can't let them use their power breaking rules and orders in the society." (original subs) or "Dixing people want freedom, and one can excuse their escape to the surface. However, we cannot allow them to flaunt their special powers and cause upheaval there." (revised subs).
But then in the (sadly extremely short-lived) BCE procedural, he tells the two purse-snatchers, "You are not supposed to live here. I will send you back."
I'm going to assume that the latter declaration has an unspoken "because you've broken Haixing laws" in it. Fair?
Gah! My earlier "prohibits... not misusing" makes no sense! Oh well... ;-p
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Haha, yes, I would have loved more of that!
I'm going to assume that the latter declaration has an unspoken "because you've broken Haixing laws" in it. Fair?
Probably! I have to think more about that. Just trying to remember all the bits and pieces of info we have regarding the treaty, but right now, the only bit that comes to mind is from episode 1, where Da Qing says they can capture Dixingren but have to hand them over to Dixing, and episode 4, where the Envoy says Lin Yusen killing Dixingren violated the treaty.
*ponders some more*
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In ep 7 when Shen Wei approaches Ying Chun, he says, "All those years ago, the defeated Dixing people were banished. The Yashou tribes, who had come to Haixing too, were able to live in peace with the humans because they supported them at war and stayed neutral thereafter."
Which seems wildly unfair, given there were Dixingren on the winning side, too, so maybe isn't the full story?
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