Episode 15 question: constraint on Shen Wei's powers

[china_shop]

When Shen Wei is explaining his power to Zhao Yunlan in ep 15 (timestamp 14:36), he says he's "restrained by Zhenhun token and black power itself".

Anyone know what he means by the Zhenhun token?


Complete subtitles: I only have one ability as well: learn. I can transfer the ability I see into my own. In principle, my material is endless. Actually, I am restrained by Zhenhun token and black power itself, so I can show limited power here. You thought too highly of me, if viewing me as omnipotent.




我的异能
其实也只有一种
学习
我可以将我看到的异能
纳为己用
原则上
我的素材库是无边无尽的
但是受到了镇魂令
和黑能量汰身的制约
所以我在这里
能够展现的实力相当有限
要说我无所不能
太抬举[?]了

(OCR via Google Translate, so probably wildly unreliable, sorry.)

Comments

[yantantether]

This is probably going to be one of those occasions where I accidentally mix up novel and series canon, but isn't the token something that ZYL has to show that he's the Lord of the Guardians?

I don't remember what it exactly is or if we ever see it, though.

[china_shop]

Ahhhh! *facepalm* I should have searched the subtitles before posting this! There are several references (I think mostly by the Justiciar?) to Zhao Yunlan being the Lord of the Zhenhun Token/Guardian Token.

Pretty sure they don't explain what it is or what it does, though.

So... something intrinsic to Zhao Yunlan's position is a constraint on Shen Wei's powers? Huh.

(*swoons over your icon*)

[yantantether]

something intrinsic to Zhao Yunlan's position is a constraint on Shen Wei's powers

This is *so* interesting (and an interesting potential source of conflict) and obviously we just get one throwaway line and no explanation of it!

I guess it was maybe part of some agreement between Haixing and Dixing: that the Envoy could operate in Haixing but his powers would be constrained by the token? You'd think it would have come up when Shen Wei's powers start being affected by healing Yunlan's sight and they have their whole kitchen fight...

[china_shop]

ARGH WHY DIDN'T I INVESTIGATE THIS BEFORE I WROTE MY TREATY FIC ARGH!

Ahem. Sorry.

They never really explain the "guardian" part at all in the show.

I wonder if the token was something Chief Zhao Senior insisted on. /wild speculation based on nothing

[yantantether]

Based on what we know about him, it would make sense!

[extrapenguin]

Given that Zhao senior was in all probability the person through whom Shen Wei's official ID request was passed, very likely. The Justicar/Chancellor/Regent (what's the hanzi for his title, anyway?) said he knew "just the person to ask" when Shen Wei expressed a desire to go back to the surface after waking up, and since Zhao Yunlan didn't call bullshit on Shen Wei's ID five minutes into a background check, it must've been arranged pretty high up in the Haixing government, so the Chancellor's contact must've been Zhao Xinci. (Or, on the off chance it wasn't, Zhao Xinci was consulted as the dude in charge of Dixing affairs.) Thus Zhao Xinci would both be in a position to demand concessions and be very willing to demand them.

[trobadora]

That must have been over 20 years ago, though, so it may have been pre-Zhao Xinci?

[extrapenguin]

Twenty years ago, Zhao Yunlan was about eight, which wouldn't be too far off his age in the first of the "Shen Xi yells at Zhao Xinci about how he ignores their son completely" flashbacks, thus Zhao Xinci could easily be the head of the SID. (Though my ability to estimate ages isn't that great. We do see a prop state Zhao Yunlan is currently 28!)

[trobadora]

Hm, you're right, it could work if it's only just over 20 years.

(I can never decide what to do with prop canon. I mean, this one's harmless, but then there's stuff like the lorem ipsum on Cong Bo's computer. *g*)

[china_shop]

What's the prop? (Damn, I want him to be older than that -- at least mid-thirties. ;-P)

[extrapenguin]

IIRC it's the info sheet on him Shen Wei is staring at in one of the early eps. I agree I'd rather he were older than Shen Wei, around 35 or so, though I guess 28 works better as a newishly-minted maverick of a department head. (And if he's older, Shen Wei's paperwork is still handled by Zhao Xinci.)

[china_shop]

Can you remember whether it has his date of birth or just his age? If the latter, it might be out of date. (I think I'm sticking with my headcanon on this one. *pokes out tongue at art department*)

[extrapenguin]

Can you remember whether it has his date of birth or just his age?
Alas, I can't; it was the info sheet Shen Wei lovingly stared at in episode 1 or 2, if that helps?

I think I'm sticking with my headcanon on this one. *pokes out tongue at art department*
I support your choice! :P I have my own headcanons, too, like Shen Wei only being woken up for ~14 years, despite that dude saying he'd been sent on a mission by the Black-Robed Envoy 20 years ago.

[extrapenguin]

Update: it's just the age. Screencap. Episode 1, ~26 min in. It's blurry, but reads "28".

[china_shop]

Oh, that's super-easy to handwave then, even if I decide to take it into account (old file, given to Shen Wei when ZYL first takes the position; I mean, that only makes ZYL 31, but at least puts him in his thirties). Thanks! :-D

[rheasilvia]

The head of the SID wouldn't have the power to decide something like this, I think; essentially, they are the head of a specialized police department, not someone who makes far-reaching policy decisions (as we see later on in the series). So IMO this kind of decision would go to someone considerably higher up, more on the policy side of things rather than the executive. I could imagine this might have been handled by Zhao Xinci's predecessor in his current role, and/or the previous minister. The head of the SID might be asked for their opinion, but no more than that.

BTW, I always assumed that the SID and the Envoy's agreed-upon role on Haixing were established at the same time, as complementary counterweights.

[extrapenguin]

So IMO this kind of decision would go to someone considerably higher up, more on the policy side of things rather than the executive.
Very probably, but I'd argue that 1, the request went through the SID, and 2. the higher-ups asked the SID head on his opinion, since hey here's a department that deals with the weird thing, and so Zhao Xinci would be given the opportunity to tell his opinion, and since Dixingians are weird shit, they'd likely agree to his suggestions of defensive measures.

[rheasilvia]

Sure, as I said, the head of the SID would definitely be asked for their opinion on such a matter (if the higher-ups had any sense at all) - provided, of course, the SID already existed at that time. Which is not certain; it's possible this was the event that prompted the formation of the department in the first place.

Plus, even if the SID did already exist, we don't know if Zhao Xinci was head of the SID at that time, because we don't know how long ago Shen Wei returned to Haixing. I personally like to think it was considerably more than 20 years ago. (I also like to think the SID was not founded just 20 years ago; I love imagining it several hundred years ago, and how it changed in that time, and how different directors and different teams handled things differently.)

[trobadora]

BTW, I always assumed that the SID and the Envoy's agreed-upon role on Haixing were established at the same time, as complementary counterweights.

That's been my theory as well!

[solo]

I totally agree, that's way beyond the paygrade of the head of SID.

But I think the SID has been around for like 10k years, obviously in changing shapes and forms. I think (*sigh, must watch eps again*) that gets stated somewhere in the later episodes...

[rheasilvia]

But I think the SID has been around for like 10k years, obviously in changing shapes and forms.

Oooh, really? I would love for that to be canon. Do let me know if you come across this reference again!

[extrapenguin]

I guess it was maybe part of some agreement between Haixing and Dixing: that the Envoy could operate in Haixing but his powers would be constrained by the token? You'd think it would have come up when Shen Wei's powers start being affected by healing Yunlan's sight and they have their whole kitchen fight...

Damn, now I want to include this in fic. I also recall Zhu Jiu taunting Shen Wei about how Zhu Jiu's powers aren't restrained by the token, or am I mistaken?

[china_shop]

I'm not sure about Zhu Jui, but I just found a scene in episode 35 (timestamp 36:30) where Ye Zun in disguise as the Envoy holds up a piece of paper (which apparently is the token?) and says, "The Guardian token, I am sure all of you have heard of it. I proposed the treaty 10,000 years ago, but now I find that it's just a scam." [Dixing crowd reaction] "Because of this piece of paper, we are trapped underground, living in such an environment." And then he declares it invalid and burns it.

So... really not sure how that constrains Shen Wei's power, but apparently the token is a treaty and I should have done much more research before I wrote my story, doh!. :-)

[yantantether]

I've just looked again at your transcribed subtitles and the clip, and the word used for 'token' there is ling 令, which according to my dictionary means 'order; command; decree.'

Ye Zun uses the same word for the 'token' initially in 35, and then a different word for 'treaty' which I haven't been able to pick out yet.

So, you're totally right, I guess the treaty is the arrangement between Haixing and Dixing overall, and the 'token' is just the piece of paper the treaty is written on? And does that mean that Shen Wei's powers aren't restricted in themselves, but only in the sense that it's written down in the treaty what the Envoy can or can't do?

[jo_lasalle]

This thread is so informative! Lots of stuff I hadn't picked up on yet. (The downside of introducing more and more people to the drama is that I've seen the first chunk of episodes A LOT and the second half... once.)

[china_shop]

Yay! :-)

And ha! I've only watched the whole thing through once... and then selected scenes over and over and over and over and over. I really need to rewatch the whole lot through sometime (preferably if I can find someone to watch with).

[yantantether]

I don't remember Shen Wei and Zhu Jiu's conversations in enough detail (need to do a rewatch!) but that would be super interesting, and would account for why Zhu Jiu is actually a real threat - his powers aren't being restricted and Shen Wei's are.

[trobadora]

This is a really interesting idea that hadn't occurred to me before! *takes notes*

[china_shop]

You'd think it would have come up when Shen Wei's powers start being affected by healing Yunlan's sight and they have their whole kitchen fight...

Unless the Token only stops him from hurting SID employees or something. We don't know what restriction it puts on his powers or how it works. Oh, show! :-)

[solo]

In episode 10, the Black-Cloaked envoy says (around 23:00) something about not being able to chase down Dixing people by himself on Haixing - the reasons being a) something about gravity? (I meant to ask for help with that line) and b) being able to release only half his power there.

So even before the whole life exchange thing, his power was limited on Haixing, and that could well be to do with the Guardian 'token'.

[china_shop]

So even before the whole life exchange thing, his power was limited on Haixing, and that could well be to do with the Guardian 'token'.

Yes, and there was that bit when Zhu Jiu had ZYL, and Shen Wei was teleporting everywhere to find him and fell to the ground coughing blood. Presumably he would have been fine if he'd been in Dixing.

*goes to read the comments on your post, yay*

[tinny]

Yay more meta!

Maybe this is some kind of confusion on the part of the person who first did the subtitles?

In the novel, Zhao Yunlan has a whip, and it is the token of his office as The Guardian. He can, as far as I know, also transform it into other things. I think it was called token because it represents his power of office. (But I am also just guessing here, not a novel expert.)

So maybe when the drama came around, the translator knew he had this token and used that word. But afaik there is no such token that he carries around in the drama. I haven't seen the episode with Ye Zun's speech yet, but the token being the treaty between Haixing and Dixing makes a lot of sense.

[china_shop]

Ah, I didn't know that about the novel. Maybe that's it. Thanks for weighing in! :-)