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sid_guardian2025-08-24 11:09 am
china_shop) wrote in sid_guardian2025-08-24 11:09 am
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Guardian Readalong: Vol. 3, Bonus Story: Pocket Dimension
Hi, and welcome to the last installment of the Guardian novel readalong!
Here is last week's post about the Shen San extra, and you can find all previous discussions in the schedule posts (part 1, part 2, part 3, part 4, part 5), or via the !readalong tag.
In this week's extra, Pocket Dimension: Zhao Yunlan shows Shen Wei how to send red envelopes from his new phone, and Shen Wei sends bonuses to the SID team until he runs out of money. Everyone wants to work for the SID under Kunlun-jun, so Shen Wei has devised personalised applications. Mysteriously, more than twice as many applications have been returned as were sent out. Zhu Hong's Fourth Uncle disappears while visiting the South Sea Water Tribe, and Zhao Yunlan and Shen Wei go to investigate. They get caught in a vortex full of bubble AUs, each with a connection point to the real world. Zhao Yunlan escapes from eighty-one pocket dimensions and reunites with Shen Wei, who seems traumatised. Zhao Yunlan and Shen Wei take a seaside vacation. Shen Wei thinks swimming trunks are inelegant.
Excerpts:
1) Shen Wei is possibly even worse at managing money than Zhao Yunlan is
At the day-to-day level, Comrade Shen Wei showed every sign that he really knew how to enjoy life. Having turned his attention from manipulating the Three Realms to eating, dressing, and living well, he was more than prepared for the task.
Looking at the bigger picture, however, it was clear that Shen Wei had never truly engaged with the world. In tumultuous times, he’d hole up somewhere on a mountain. In times of peace, he’d rent some random place and live there for a while. Despite all his years wandering around the Mortal Realm, he had no savings or assets, never mind real estate or housing. To this day, other than his salary card, he didn’t have a single penny to his name.
As for all the famous mountains and rivers of the world, well, the government ran all of that now, and he certainly didn’t get a cut of the tourism money.
2) Shen Wei gives away all his money as SID bonuses
Zhao Yunlan put down his phone and walked over. “Hey, by the way, what kind of secret code is ‘Thank you, Shen-laoshi’? Why is everyone saying that when they come in?”
“Uh…” said Shen Wei.
“For the red envelopes he just sent us, of course,” Chu Shuzhi said. “Our bonus for the Dragon Boat Festival, right?”
Zhao Yunlan grabbed Shen Wei’s phone to find that, in the time he’d been wrapped up on a call, Shen Wei-tongxue had mastered the technique of mobile payments and diligently done some after-class practice. He’d been going down his contacts list and sending each person in the Special Investigations Bureau a red envelope.
It wasn’t the kind where you sent it into the group chat for everyone to fight over—Zhao-laoshi hadn’t reached that lesson yet. No, Shen Wei had sent each one individually, and had only made it halfway through his contacts before running out of money.
His Shen-laoshi viewed cash the same way he viewed in-game currency—and not even the kind you had to buy, but the kind the game gave you for free to start.
3) Shen Wei and Zhao Yunlan become trapped in bubbles
In an instant, it became shockingly apparent that something was deeply wrong—he and Zhao Yunlan weren’t actually touching, despite how close together they were. Shen Wei whipped his head around in shock. There was some sort of clear film in between them.
Zhao Yunlan said something, but the sound didn’t penetrate the invisible barrier. Shen Wei read the words off Zhao Yunlan’s lips. “This bubble is…”
Bubble?
Shen Wei looked around. Fourth Uncle’s lamp of life was reflected everywhere, revealing what might’ve been infinite layers of clear film, like soap bubbles clustered together. Vague mirages flickered across the surfaces of the bubbles, reflecting both Shen Wei and Zhao Yunlan an endless number of times. It was a frightening sight.
4) What are the bubbles?
The bubble that had separated him and Shen Wei just now was the same as that eleven-year cycle. Every bubble was a world set to repeat over and over for a certain span of time.
Some were simple and crude, repeating every ten minutes; some might seem incredibly real and complex, repeating only after thousands of years.
So this wasn’t some kind of artifact. It was simply all the remains of the sages’ attempts to create the Reincarnation Cycle. The waste from their experiments had been sealed in the South Sea all this time until the seal had first been disturbed by the King of the Gui and then accidentally smashed open by a great yao, leaving it exposed to the Mortal Realm.
5) Zhao Yunlan enjoys some virtual reality alernate lives with his boo
Not every dimension came straight from his memories. Some seemed like memories from a past life, but with subtle differences. Some were of bizarre worlds with just a few familiar segments flashing through them.
Zhao Yunlan rather liked the latter sort because in the course of the five thousand years he’d spent in the Reincarnation Cycle, he had very few memories of Shen Wei. When Zhao Yunlan occasionally managed to catch him, it was inevitably only a brief glimpse before Shen Wei disappeared again.
But in the fake worlds, Shen Wei was always right there at his side, playing different roles in his life. In those worlds, they spent a whole lifetime together until they both found their own connection items and broke out of the cycle…
Questions:
Did you enjoy this extra? What's your favourite thing about it? Do you have questions about what's happened in the six years between the epilogue and now? On a scale of one to ten, how terrible is Zhao Yunlan's dad? When Shen Wei and Zhao Yunlan portal to the South Sea, who does the portalling: Shen Wei, Zhao Yunlan, or both separately? We know Fourth Uncle is still alive, but what happened to him? Do you think the question of the duplicate applications was satisfactorily answered? How do you feel about the bubble AUs?
(As usual, these are all just conversation starters - feel free to answer all, some, or none, and to say as much or as little as you like! You don't have to be keeping up with the readalong!)
Finally, I just want to thank everyone who's been part of this readalong, either by hosting, commenting, or reading along! It's been such a pleasure sharing this with you all for the last nearly-ten months. And super special extra thanks to
trobadora for being an awesome co-mod! <3 <3 <3
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Not really. That's probably not a surprise, given how it's usually talked about - and I first encountered it back in the days when it was really hard to find anyone who actually liked the drama and didn't diss it, so that probably made my reaction worse. But I'm going to try my best to compartmentalise and not talk just about that in my comment. Wish me luck! *g*
Do you think the question of the duplicate applications was satisfactorily answered?
No. There's no explanation at all how you could use these bubble universes to create copies you could then take out of the bubbles - it doesn't make much sense to me at all, given what we see.
How do you feel about the bubble AUs?
I generally like AUs! I would have enjoyed seeing a bunch of different bubble 'verses! But we don't see enough of these to actually enjoy them, and instead they just seem to be used as a clumsy device to invalidate the drama.
Every last one of his passwords was set as the unit number of their home. He had absolutely no concept of cybersecurity.
I dislike this implication that SW isn't capable of grasping the concept of a secure password when he's told, so I'm choosing to believe he's trolling ZYL. *nods firmly*
In tumultuous times, he'd hole up somewhere on a mountain. In times of peace, he'd rent some random place and live there for a while.
Oh! So he has lived among people in the past! I wish we'd learned more about that. (And presumably if he "rented" he had to manage payment in some way, so I refuse to buy this whole "SW doesn't understand money" thing.)
Despite all his years wandering around the Mortal Realm, he had no savings or assets, never mind real estate or housing. To this day, other than his salary card, he didn't have a single penny to his name.
ZYL's POV suggests that it's because he's not worldly, but can't it just because he doesn't see the point? (He's the Emissary; he never expected to get a life with Kunlun - what does he care about mortal money? Nothing that actually matters to him can be bought with money. And even now - they're gods; the only reason they need any money at all is because they're sort of playing at living like mortals, but only in some ways, not in all.)
His phone had started ringing before he'd even finished speaking. Zhao Yunlan glanced at it, but he didn't want to answer, so he put the phone face down.
How does he know it's not actually something important/urgent? Especially when people keep calling? This is so irresponsible.
Overnight, the tiresome job of working at the SID became a highly coveted golden post. Now everyone wanted to get their foot in the door so his immortal aura might rub off on them.
LOL!
In the Year of Our Lord 2018
Does it really say that in the Chinese?! That sounds so weird, LOL.
I only have the Chinese version on Bilibili, which actually says it's the year 8012. (Does anyone know what calendar that is? Google was not helpful.) The fan translation has It's already 2018.
Zhao Yunlan responded in the flat monotone of someone reciting scriptures.
Ugh, his dad sucks so much, and ZYL is so done with it all.
Zhao Yunlan was close enough to Zhu Hong that he could turn her down without worrying about fake pleasantries, but the yao were family to Kunlun. He couldn't blatantly disrespect the yao elders.
Oh, that's interesting about the dynamics!
(I don't believe ZYL. He can blatantly disrespect ANYONE, it's his special talent! *g*)
He himself was essentially a walking, talking archive of lost techniques
And I like that he's putting some of that to use now! The seal/watermark business is very cool, and I love that it makes the whole thing more accessible to people from different backgrounds.
His Shen-laoshi viewed cash the same way he viewed in-game currency-and not even the kind you had to buy, but the kind the game gave you for free to start.
I feel like there are two ways of taking this, and I don't like either.
Either we're meant to think ZYL is right and SW really doesn't understand what he's doing, in which case I don't like SW being portrayed as that oblivious about giving away all his money. Or we're meant to think ZYL is wrong, in which case I don't like ZYL's patronising attitude towards SW.
Anyway, I think SW has to be trolling here. I'm choosing to believe SW is just pretending not to understand, and is in fact making sure everyone gets a holiday bonus.
(All of this money-related "comedy" is deeply unfunny to me since it's all at SW's expense.)
Chu Shuzhi's eyes bulged. "Hang on...! Each one of over 700 applications is different? And you kept a record of them all?"
"Yes." Shen Wei adjusted his glasses. "And...?"
And this is the guy ZYL thinks can't grasp the concept of using different passwords?!
(I really don't like what this says about ZYL's attitude towards SW.)
Fourth Uncle arrived at 9 University Road less than five minutes after receiving his niece's call, despite the scorching sun.
1) Can he teleport?!
2) What does the sun have to do with it? He's not a ghost, since when do yao have a problem with the sun?!
A Pangu-brand photocopier?
LOL!
From his seat up on a cloud, Zhao Yunlan cringed at the sight. He and Shen Wei couldn't even get off the cloud-the beach was so packed that there was nowhere to set foot.
That is a hilarious image!
This was a mixed-species tribe, created when the chiefs of each of the tribes had banded together to form an alliance. The one in charge was a three-thousand-year-old sea turtle, and the second-in-command was a two-thousand-year-old sea cucumber.
Oh, neat! I love all the different water tribe yao, that's so fun. There are even barracudas, hee! :D
The traces I left all over that application awakened whatever is sealed here.
Oops?
Shen Wei looked around. Fourth Uncle's lamp of life was reflected everywhere, revealing what might've been infinite layers of clear film, like soap bubbles clustered together. Vague mirages flickered across the surfaces of the bubbles, reflecting both Shen Wei and Zhao Yunlan an endless number of times.
This is a really cool image!
Kunlun-jun's body couldn't be so much as scratched; heat and cold alike posed no threat. It had been six years since Zhao Yunlan's divine spirit was awakened, and he'd nearly forgotten even the sensation of a mosquito's bite. How had he managed to sprain his ankle here in the South Sea?
Hee! That's a great way of raising the stakes for him. (Alas, it doesn't actually go anywhere.)
the cat looked like a much younger Daqing, with his neck and waist clearly defined, as Daqing's had been before he gained weight.
Awww!
It was common knowledge that time couldn't flow backward, and a person couldn't jump randomly within his own timeline. Within the same dimension, the laws of cause and effect were immutable.
Back before Kunlun-jun had been awakened, Zhao Yunlan had once traveled eleven years back to Renwu year-except he hadn't, not really. Shennong had just put an eleven-year mini-cycle into Nüwa's scale, creating a pocket dimension. It had been an illusion that was very similar to, but different from, reality. He had simply been inside that pocket dimension for a while.
1) It wasn't common knowledge in the novel when ZYL treated it very much as a real time loop!
2) NO! I was so pleased with the novel's little time-loop, you don't get to retcon it out of existence! Also, all these explanations for why it's not a time loop are way more convoluted than the actual time loop was - entirely needlessly so. I mean, seriously, why? Just to take a swipe at the drama? That's so petty.
So this wasn't some kind of artifact. It was simply all the remains of the sages' attempts to create the Reincarnation Cycle.
So basically, Shennong dumped his toxic waste there? Fun.
(Also, "sages"? Plural?! The fan translation has "the ancient gods", also plural. Checking the Bilibili Chinese version, yeah, it's plural - 先圣们. Huh.)
"Ah, Shen Wei." Zhao Yunlan caught up to his incarnation, contemplating the watch's origin. He chuckled, shaking his head. "You sneaky bastard."
Aw! Is he talking about the bubble's alternate SW, or is this something that happened the same way in reality? Since it later says not all the bubbles are based on his memories, I guess it did happen! And I like SW sneakily providing Kunlun's reincarnation with specialised tools. :D
But in the fake worlds, Shen Wei was always right there at his side, playing different roles in his life. In those worlds, they spent a whole lifetime together until they both found their own connection items and broke out of the cycle...
Wait, does that mean the real SW meets up inside the bubbles with him? I don't get it, I thought each bubble had one connection item, but this sounds like it has separate ones for each of them, and they're each separately breaking out (only to meet again in the next?).
I do like the idea of them getting to spend that much time together, though I wish we got to actually see them interacting - hard to feel like it's meaningful when it all gets glossed over like this.
(If it's not the real SW but only alternate bubble versions, then I don't like it as much - because then ZYL spends vastly more time with replacement goldfish than the real SW, and apparently doesn't mind. But it really does read to me like it's the real SW!)
Zhao Yunlan had a feeling that this dimension was the last, but he could've hardly expected that this one would last ten thousand years.
"Ten thousand years" and the self-immolation are the only things tying this to the drama. Not much to go on! LA LA LA I CAN'T HEAR YOU ...
Oh right. There was still himself.
If I take this bubble as a reflection of the drama (which it's clearly meant to be, but which I really don't want to), this would be implying that drama!ZYL burns himself not to save Dixing, not to save the world, not to complete SW's work, but just to escape a bubble universe. NO! You don't get to take this away from him and diminish his sacrifice and his achievements!
So here's my opinion: The drama doesn't need a fix-it. The ending is so hopeful and leaves open so many ways of bringing them back - if you want ZYL and SW to be alive, all it needs is an epilogue. Even if you did want to "fix" the drama's ending, this isn't a fix-it, it's a break-it - for two separate reasons. First, trying to fold the drama characters into the novel versions doesn't work since they're such vastly different people, and can only be accomplished by treating the drama versions as if they don't count. (Which, if that's your view, doesn't that already obviate the need for a fix-it?) And second, more importantly, the way ZYL escapes this bubble undermines and devalues everything about the drama's sacrifice ending, in a really mean-spirited way that makes me think less of priest.
Version comparison: just two translation differences I wanted to point out, no version differences that I saw:
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But I'm going to try my best to compartmentalise and not talk just about that in my comment. Wish me luck! *g]*
*hugs*
I would have enjoyed seeing a bunch of different bubble 'verses! But we don't see enough of these to actually enjoy them
That's true! It would have been really fun to see more of them -- I guess then it would have turned into a whole 'nother novel, though. *g*
I dislike this implication that SW isn't capable of grasping the concept of a secure password when he's told, so I'm choosing to believe he's trolling ZYL.
I feel like SW is prioritising sentimentality over security, and ZYL is implicitly teasing him about that (with love). But that does require some projection, perhaps.
I refuse to buy this whole "SW doesn't understand money" thing.
FWIW, I think it's very much the pot deliberately calling the kettle black in a lovingly teasing way. We know ZYL is canonically terrible with money, and here the novel is going, look, SW is profligate too (because money doesn't matter and has never mattered to him at all, why would it?). Like, I really don't think it's supposed to be a genuine critique or mean-spirited? And yes, he's absolutely trolling with the red envelopes, probably partly in retaliation for ZYL making him get a smartphone. *g* /my reading
How does he know it's not actually something important/urgent? Especially when people keep calling? This is so irresponsible.
We don't know who the first caller was, do we? He did look at the number -- and then assumed the next two calls were the same person. I think he's been endlessly inundated with people trying to get their friends and relatives into the SID, and he's just done with it all.
(I don't believe ZYL. He can blatantly disrespect ANYONE, it's his special talent! *g*)
LOL! I think it's more "He couldn't blatantly disrespect the yao elders (without causing offence/a fuss that would be more trouble than it's worth)"?
The seal/watermark business is very cool, and I love that it makes the whole thing more accessible to people from different backgrounds.
Yes! It's so cool! :DDD
I feel like there are two ways of taking this, and I don't like either.
Huh, I didn't read it as SW literally thinking of it as not really money (or as ZYL thinking SW thought it wasn't money) -- I thought it was just a priest way of describing frittering money away in an "easy come, easy go" sense. And yes, he's totally trolling -- and also putting ZYL in the position of having to make up the difference. (“If you run out of money, I’ll transfer you some more. Go on, finish sending the red envelopes. Ah…ha ha ha. You sure are a quick learner.”)
Oh, ZYL's pained smile about this made me realise: ZYL is profligate with money buying himself things (which fits with the general SID attitude, cf their "what's in it for you?" questions of GCC); meanwhile SW is profligate about giving money to others. So part of ZYL's edged teasing is that SW isn't being selfish enough, lol. And part of SW's motive is probably that his being broadly generous reflects well on both of them, since they're a unit now.
And this is the guy ZYL thinks can't grasp the concept of using different passwords?!
I really think he was just teasing! Like, "it's very sweet, but that's not how mortals do it, and you were the one who wanted to live like a mortal" kind of teasing. /obv you don't have to agree
2) What does the sun have to do with it? He's not a ghost, since when do yao have a problem with the sun?!
Idk about the teleporting, but I thought the sun reference was, like, no one wants to go out in the scorching sun, and if they have to, they just about melt (and probably move kind of slowly or dash from shade to shade and stop every 50 metres for an iceblock), so the fact that he came directly despite the discomfort was noteable?
Oh, neat! I love all the different water tribe yao, that's so fun. There are even barracudas, hee! :D
Yes, I loved that! A sea cucumber who's managed to cultivate to deputy tribe leader in only 2000 years!!
That's a great way of raising the stakes for him. (Alas, it doesn't actually go anywhere.)
Yeah, that's a shame.
2) NO! I was so pleased with the novel's little time-loop, you don't get to retcon it out of existence!
I know! Proof #1 that this is not canon and not to be taken seriously. ;-p
So basically, Shennong dumped his toxic waste there? Fun.
LOL! Great way to put it!
Also, "sages"? Plural?! The fan translation has "the ancient gods", also plural. Checking the Bilibili Chinese version, yeah, it's plural - 先圣们. Huh.
Huh. Who else was working with Shennong on the Reincarnation Cycle? His mortar? Kunlun for a bit? *adds new item to the mishmash pile of sundry confusingness*
And I like SW sneakily providing Kunlun's reincarnation with specialised tools. :D
Yes, that's very cool! :D (I wonder where SW got it -- or whether he made it himself.)
If it's not the real SW but only alternate bubble versions, then I don't like it as much - because then ZYL spends vastly more time with replacement goldfish than the real SW, and apparently doesn't mind. But it really does read to me like it's the real SW!
Hm, it read to me as if each SW was bubble-specific ("replacement goldfish" is such a great way to put it!). But who knows???
LA LA LA I CAN'T HEAR YOU ...
LA LA LA LA LAs along with you! <33333
Oooooh, I really love everything about your argument about why it's not a fixit. Great points, all! *co-signs* *subscribes to your newsletter* <3
The sea urchin TN is so cool! I kind of see why the translators simplified it, but it loses so much humour in the translation!!
I'm not sure which of these is right, but I think buying makes more sense?
I guess if he's selling them, it skips the step of having to buy them first (in a "you have to spend money to make money" sense). I read it as "he wanted the money as start-up for his betel nuts business." But I didn't really give it much thought.
A final thank you and giant heap of gratitude and flowers for all your work comparing the versions and posting the differences. It's added so much to the discussion -- you are a complete star!! <3 <3 <3
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Haha, yeah, it would have been! But we all know from fanfic how much you can do and imply in just a few lines, and I'd really have appreciated if priest had given us at least a little bit of AU content there.
I feel like SW is prioritising sentimentality over security, and ZYL is implicitly teasing him about that (with love). But that does require some projection, perhaps.
Maybe it's intended that way? But this and the money thing both just came across as infantilising SW to me.
because money doesn't matter and has never mattered to him at all, why would it?
This! If the text actually acknowledged that at all, it would read very differently to me.
probably partly in retaliation for ZYL making him get a smartphone. *g*
Haha, yeah, that makes sense! :D
I think it's more "He couldn't blatantly disrespect the yao elders (without causing offence/a fuss that would be more trouble than it's worth)"?
Oh, yeah, absolutely. I just thought it was funny that he was all, "oh, I can't". *g*
I thought it was just a priest way of describing frittering money away in an "easy come, easy go" sense.
I guess? It just rubs me the wrong way because to me it does read as patronising towards SW.
ZYL is profligate with money buying himself things (which fits with the general SID attitude, cf their "what's in it for you?" questions of GCC); meanwhile SW is profligate about giving money to others. So part of ZYL's edged teasing is that SW isn't being selfish enough, lol.
Aw! Good on SW. :D
Idk about the teleporting, but I thought the sun reference was, like, no one wants to go out in the scorching sun
I think the sun would make sense if it didn't seem like he teleported, LOL. But maybe he just flew super-fast?
Huh. Who else was working with Shennong on the Reincarnation Cycle? His mortar? Kunlun for a bit? *adds new item to the mishmash pile of sundry confusingness*
RIGHT????? Very good question! *joins you in confusion*
Hm, it read to me as if each SW was bubble-specific
It says, In those worlds, they spent a whole lifetime together until they both found their own connection items and broke out of the cycle… - SW is breaking out too, which has to mean he's real?
"replacement goldfish" is such a great way to put it!
Ha, yeah! It's a fantastic name for the trope. (Huh, the TVTropes article doesn't even mention one of the most common versions of the trope, which involves AU versions of characters ... I guess it's more common in fanfic than elsewhere, LOL.)
Oooooh, I really love everything about your argument about why it's not a fixit. Great points, all!
♥ ♥ ♥
(What gets under my skin the most is what it does to ZYL's sacrifice. I didn't remember that part, and it was such a punch to the gut when I realised.)
The sea urchin TN is so cool! I kind of see why the translators simplified it, but it loses so much humour in the translation!!
Yes, agreed! But also I admire the translator for making such a smoothly readable English version out of something untranslatable.
It's added so much to the discussion
Yeah, when I started I had no idea just how much there would be! /o\ It's been so interesting to see all the changes, and I appreciate a lot of them - I really think the version the official translation is using is overall a better novel! But at the same time, WHYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY so many edits! *g*
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But we all know from fanfic how much you can do and imply in just a few lines, and I'd really have appreciated if priest had given us at least a little bit of AU content there.
Yeah, if nothing else, it would have felt less pointed. ;-p
Huh. Who else was working with Shennong on the Reincarnation Cycle? His mortar? Kunlun for a bit? *adds new item to the mishmash pile of sundry confusingness*
RIGHT????? Very good question! *joins you in confusion*
Maybe there's a whole pile of minor ancient gods we never heard about? /o\
It says, In those worlds, they spent a whole lifetime together until they both found their own connection items and broke out of the cycle… - SW is breaking out too, which has to mean he's real?
Oh, yeah! I guess so, then.
(What gets under my skin the most is what it does to ZYL's sacrifice. I didn't remember that part, and it was such a punch to the gut when I realised.)
Yeah, I just wilfully glossed right over that, in the interests of enjoying the extra as its own thing. I just can't think of them as connected.
It's been so interesting to see all the changes, and I appreciate a lot of them - I really think the version the official translation is using is overall a better novel! But at the same time, WHYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY so many edits! *g*
I wonder if that's a common thing, when web novels are published -- maybe part of the lure is "we'll pay you to fix up the bits you weren't quite happy with"?
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Yeah, that's an excellent point!
I wonder if that's a common thing, when web novels are published -- maybe part of the lure is "we'll pay you to fix up the bits you weren't quite happy with"?
Yeah, I think the whole "fixing up" is common with republishing webnovels in general - like Captive Prince, which I mentioned in another comment ... somewhere ... and not just webnovels, also in a fannish context, such as kinkmeme fills that are edited before being reposted on AO3.
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Oh, true. I know some people tidy up their![[community profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/community.png)
fan_flashworks entries before they archive them. (I've been known to.) FFW is so low-traffic that it feels more like a staging area than publishing sometimes. ;-p
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100% how I see it too, fwiw. :D ♡
"ZYL is profligate with money buying himself things (which fits with the general SID attitude, cf their "what's in it for you?" questions of GCC); meanwhile SW is profligate about giving money to others."
Hm, I'm not sure about that because the only instances of ZYL wasting money I can think of were for SW (the books, the house/apartment, and the theoretical 5000 flowers), but I could definitely be forgetting something. :) And obviously buying things for SW is very different from buying things for people who are not SW, lol, even if two of these gifts were not to get in his pants. And now he's learning from SW to buy things for other people too, at least for GCC in the last scene. :D
"I wonder where SW got it -- or whether he made it himself."
It was the Guardian's existing watch that got upgraded ("When the repaired watch was returned, it was able to communicate between the worlds of yin and yang. It had become Clarity."), so I'm assuming SW did the upgrade himself. :D
"I guess if he's selling them, it skips the step of having to buy them first (in a "you have to spend money to make money" sense). I read it as "he wanted the money as start-up for his betel nuts business.""
That's how I read it too. :D
"A final thank you and giant heap of gratitude and flowers for all your work comparing the versions and posting the differences. It's added so much to the discussion -- you are a complete star!! <3 <3 <3"
*joins in with lots of extra flowers!!* :D ♡♡♡
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♥ ♥ ♥
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*high fives*
Oh, you're right about ZYL and money. I was thinking of statements like "Zhao Yunlan was an expert when it came to squandering money." (Vol 3, Ch 2.), but that was in the context of lavishly buying SW flowers. Hm.
It was the Guardian's existing watch that got upgraded
Ah, thank you! <3
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Yeah, ITA - at first I didn't even realize that the bubbles made the copies, I thought taking the application to the forbidden area and making copies were two different things, which now I see doesn't even make sense. xD My theory right now is that the bubbles could and did make copies of things before the area was awakened, so the applications were taken there to be copied too, except this time it turned out to be a bad idea. But, as is often the case, it could use one more sentence that actually explained it. :P
"And presumably if he "rented" he had to manage payment in some way, so I refuse to buy this whole "SW doesn't understand money" thing."
Fwiw, I saw it as 'he has never needed money' (he understands it in general, it even says that he has a salary card, and working at the university is clearly not his first job) - it's easy to rent when it's the only thing he spent money on and he didn't need to save it for anything else. :)
"ZYL's POV suggests that it's because he's not worldly, but can't it just because he doesn't see the point? (He's the Emissary; he never expected to get a life with Kunlun - what does he care about mortal money? Nothing that actually matters to him can be bought with money. And even now - they're gods; the only reason they need any money at all is because they're sort of playing at living like mortals, but only in some ways, not in all.)"
I wrote the comment above and then I saw that you said basically the same thing right below it, hah - yes, this! :D :D (Though I actually see ZYL's POV stating this, more or less - maybe I didn't catch the cause and effect, I just saw it as 'SW has never needed money and he has never really engaged with the world, so he never ended up earning any'.)
"I only have the Chinese version on Bilibili, which actually says it's the year 8012. (Does anyone know what calendar that is? Google was not helpful.) The fan translation has It's already 2018."
I haven't found anything either, that's a really weird number, huh! (Google translate says "in the 2020s" when you translate the 8012 sentence, and I also don't know why because it was clearly not 2020s yet. xD) Thanks for checking the expression, I was confused too!
"I don't believe ZYL. He can blatantly disrespect ANYONE, it's his special talent! *g*"
Lolol! :D :D :D PURE FACTS. This makes me think that he doesn't want to disrespect the yao because he actually does consider them family, but of course he's not going to admit that. :)
> > His Shen-laoshi viewed cash the same way he viewed in-game currency-and not even the kind you had to buy, but the kind the game gave you for free to start.
I feel like there are two ways of taking this, and I don't like either.
Fwiw, I took it a third way - treating money like in-game currency = he understands it just fine, he just spends all of it the moment he has any. :D
"I'm choosing to believe SW is just pretending not to understand, and is in fact making sure everyone gets a holiday bonus."
And this is also 100% true at the same time, imo. :D
"1) Can he teleport?!
2) What does the sun have to do with it? He's not a ghost, since when do yao have a problem with the sun?!"
I had exactly the same questions, lol! :D Well, similar questions - he can teleport (when he visits Zhu Hong on the roof, it says "Zhu Hong accepted the box, but before she could thank him, Fourth Uncle’s silhouette flashed, and he disappeared."), but I have no idea what it has to do with the sun either?? xD Maybe water snakes specifically have a problem with the sun, or maybe everyone does because it a heatwave, but idk how it affects teleporting.
"It wasn't common knowledge in the novel when ZYL treated it very much as a real time loop!"
Damn, that's a really good point! Especially the Guardian, of all people, should have known that if it was common knowledge.
"Also, all these explanations for why it's not a time loop are way more convoluted than the actual time loop was - entirely needlessly so."
Also a very good point!
"Also, "sages"? Plural?! The fan translation has "the ancient gods", also plural. Checking the Bilibili Chinese version, yeah, it's plural - 先圣们. Huh."
This confused me for a second now that you said it, but now I went back, and Kunlun says to Nüwa, "If the Reincarnation Cycle and eternal life that Shennong spoke of can’t be achieved—if we’ve failed, if we’re wrong, if we’ve created an even greater disaster…then it was simply a failed attempt in our continued struggle." So it does sound like the Reincarnation Cycle was Shennong's idea but all the gods worked on it.
"Aw! Is he talking about the bubble's alternate SW, or is this something that happened the same way in reality? Since it later says not all the bubbles are based on his memories, I guess it did happen! And I like SW sneakily providing Kunlun's reincarnation with specialised tools. :D"
Yeah, I love the idea that the slightly-off memory helped him figure out what happened in reality, and SW giving him things is the sweetest. :D (I wonder how Shen Wei felt when ZYL was using Clarity around him in early canon. ♡♡♡ There are probably no hints in the actual novel because this was invented so much later, but still. :D)
"If it's not the real SW but only alternate bubble versions, then I don't like it as much - because then ZYL spends vastly more time with replacement goldfish than the real SW, and apparently doesn't mind. But it really does read to me like it's the real SW!"
Unless fake SW can also find the item and (pretend to) break out (which is possible I guess), I'd say that "they spent a whole lifetime together until they both found their own connection items and broke out of the cycle" means it's the real SW. :) Though I also don't get how it works because other parts sound like everyone is always in their own separate bubble, but I also like the 'real SW' explanation better, so. *shrug* :D
""Ten thousand years" and the self-immolation are the only things tying this to the drama. Not much to go on! LA LA LA I CAN'T HEAR YOU ..."
Honestly (and I say it as someone who likes a part of this, though not other parts, as I said elsewhere), there's even less than that - it doesn't even say how he dies here, and he doesn't live for ten thousand years in the drama. His drama life shouldn't feel long to him at all, unless he also lived SW's life. So the only thing that actually ties it to the drama is the behind-the-scenes intention, there's nothing in the text itself as far as I can see! :)
[It would probably be wise to delete everything I said below, so feel free to ignore it completely. :D]
I wish I could see the drama ending as hopeful - I wouldn't need to cling to this solution when it doesn't even feel applicable and I don't even like 90% of it, lol. I'm not being snarky or anything, I love that you can see it as hopeful. ♡♡♡ And I know the arguments for why it could be read as hopeful, I just don't see any of these theoretical possibilities actually happening in canon, which only makes it worse because the more SW and ZYL think it's hopeful, the more heartbreaking it is to me that what they hope for just cannot canonically happen.
I don't even vibe with the concept of non-handwavy fix-it fics because even if they try very hard, some things end up being changed, and I just want Weilan back exactly as they were in exactly the same life they had, and anything else somehow manages to make everything even sadder than just letting them stay dead? (Fortunately handwavy fix-it fics are great for that. :D) (ETA: I mean post-canon fix-its in both cases. Fix-its that avert the ending are a totally different story.)
I guess I just wanted to explain that I don't hate/discard the drama ending despite it being hopeful, I simply can't see it as anything other than fully hopeless, and in a particularly cruel way too because the characters either don't know just how hopeless it is, or they know and they're both lying to make the other feel better. So maybe that's what drove Priest to do it this way - wanting to add hope that isn't there, not trying to erase it. I promise I'm not trying to convince you of anything, and really, I'm happy that you can see it differently. :) ♡♡♡ (And honestly, I would personally love to be convinced that it's hopeful, it would make for a much better experience. :D But I think I've seen every argument and every possibility that could be canonically plausible, and all they do is make everything feel even worse than 'they simply stay dead and never come back', so unfortunately it probably can't happen.)
I'm aware that this is all just about how things feel and not something that can be debated - I'm stopping now, and it's very unlikely that I will ever bring this up again. :) ♡♡♡
"[TN. 海膽 / Sea urchin is written literally "sea gallbladder." In English, you say someone with courage as having "guts," in Chinese, you say they have "gallbladder."]"
Oh, this is so fun! And the official translation did a great job - I figured it had to have something with the osmotic pressure making something swell up, and their egos works really well. :D
"I'm not sure which of these is right, but I think buying makes more sense? (批发 is just "wholesale / bulk trade", that's all it says in Chinese.)"
The official version sounded like he used the money to start a business, but just buying lots of nuts for himself would make sense too. xD
Thank you so much for comparing the versions every time! ♡♡♡
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LOL! Yeah, that theory makes complete sense; I'm adopting it too. :)
I haven't found anything either, that's a really weird number, huh! (Google translate says "in the 2020s" when you translate the 8012 sentence, and I also don't know why because it was clearly not 2020s yet. xD)
Oh, that's fascinating that Google Translate knows what it means, at least roughly! I wish regular Google were more help with finding the source, LOL.
This makes me think that he doesn't want to disrespect the yao because he actually does consider them family, but of course he's not going to admit that.
Yeah, absolutely!
he can teleport (when he visits Zhu Hong on the roof, it says "Zhu Hong accepted the box, but before she could thank him, Fourth Uncle’s silhouette flashed, and he disappeared.")
Oh, thanks for that, that had completely slipped my mind! And I'm glad I'm not the only one confused about the sun, LOL.
I went back, and Kunlun says to Nüwa, "If the Reincarnation Cycle and eternal life that Shennong spoke of can’t be achieved—if we’ve failed, if we’re wrong, if we’ve created an even greater disaster…then it was simply a failed attempt in our continued struggle." So it does sound like the Reincarnation Cycle was Shennong's idea but all the gods worked on it.
Oh, okay, I hadn't put it together but that makes sense, now that you point it out! It just feels so much like Shennong's pet project, I guess.
I wonder how Shen Wei felt when ZYL was using Clarity around him in early canon. ♡♡♡
Ooh yes, excellent point! ♥ ♥ ♥
Though I also don't get how it works because other parts sound like everyone is always in their own separate bubble, but I also like the 'real SW' explanation better, so. *shrug* :D
Yeah, I think that sentence is pretty conclusive, too, even if I don't totally understand how it works either.
Honestly (and I say it as someone who likes a part of this, though not other parts, as I said elsewhere), there's even less than that - it doesn't even say how he dies here, and he doesn't live for ten thousand years in the drama.
True, the only thing we know is that he dies deliberately, because destroying the connecting point is how shattering the bubbles works. And that's a great point that he shouldn't be experiencing 10,000 years if he's living his drama counterpart's life! I really appreciate you pointing this out. ♥
I could try and explain why/how I see the drama ending as hopeful - honestly, I really can't see it any other way; I know people do but I can't wrap my head around how you can look at it and not see what I see. *g* You said you know all the arguments, so maybe I shouldn't, LOL. But I'm not sure what you mean about non-handwavy post-canon fix-its changing things - I've seen so many different ones, but a lot of the time they do seem to slot right back into their lives?
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Yay, I'm glad it worked for you too. ♡♡♡
"I could try and explain why/how I see the drama ending as hopeful - honestly, I really can't see it any other way; I know people do but I can't wrap my head around how you can look at it and not see what I see. *g* You said you know all the arguments, so maybe I shouldn't, LOL."
AW, you can if you want to! :) If there is something that can make me feel better about the ending, I'll absolutely take it, but I can't promise that it won't just make me feel worse (since all the arguments I do know only make me feel worse, ngl) - but I can promise I will simply not reply if I'm upset, so there's no harm in saying anything you feel like saying. :) (Also I need to sleep, so I most likely won't reply anytime soon anyway, lol, but I mean in general. :D) There's also a big possibility that we simply see different things as hopeful - I can't find any hope in any variation of 'their lives or selves or reality can change and they will still be fine'; I can only see that as 'they don't get to live the life they actually wanted, they can only ever get second best and be grateful for scraps because the alternative is being dead'.
"But I'm not sure what you mean about non-handwavy post-canon fix-its changing things - I've seen so many different ones, but a lot of the time they do seem to slot right back into their lives?"
I mostly meant the explanation for how they're able to come back - I guess it automatically counts as handwavy to me when they can simply do that, because I don't see it as canonically possible, and non-handwavy when something needs to change in order for them to come back at all, which I guess could be canonically possible but also terrible so it's no longer a fix-it to me? But it's also very possible that I haven't encountered the 'right' fix-its yet so I may be unfairly prejudiced - when I have a moment to read fics I'll check out some more. :D
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I think I'll just bring it up when it becomes relevant during the slo-mo rewatch.
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It just feels so much like Shennong's pet project, I guess.
It really does! I wonder if it's because of Shen Wei begging Shennong to put Kunlun into the Reincarnation Cycle -- but I guess the other gods were already dead by then.
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