Poll: Flavours of Ye Zun (drama)

[china_shop]

Poll #33174 Ye Zun

Open to: Registered Users, detailed results viewable to: All, participants: 16

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Which flavour of Ye Zun is most frightening?

View Answers

Childhood, white robe and black hair
0 (0.0%)

With the Rebels, pre-powers: white robe, black mask, black hair
0 (0.0%)

Leading the Rebels, with powers: white robe, gold mask, white hair
3 (20.0%)

Glowy pillar
2 (13.3%)

Monologuing hologram in the park
3 (20.0%)

Seething black form with glowy eyes
2 (13.3%)

Disguised as Shen Wei (casual)
3 (20.0%)

Disguised as Shen Wei (Envoy)
3 (20.0%)

White suit, cane, mask and pony-tail
3 (20.0%)

Long white robe in the palace with energy whip
1 (6.7%)

Long white robe in the palace with bleeding forehead
4 (26.7%)

other
1 (6.7%)

Which is your favourite Ye Zun flavour?

View Answers

Childhood, white robe and black hair
0 (0.0%)

With the Rebels, pre-powers: white robe, black mask, black hair
2 (13.3%)

Leading the Rebels, with powers: white robe, gold mask, white hair
2 (13.3%)

Glowy pillar
0 (0.0%)

Monologuing hologram in the park
1 (6.7%)

Seething black form with glowy eyes
0 (0.0%)

Disguised as Shen Wei (casual)
5 (33.3%)

Disguised as Shen Wei (Envoy)
0 (0.0%)

White suit, cane, mask and pony-tail
11 (73.3%)

Long white robe in the palace with energy whip
1 (6.7%)

Long white robe in the palace with bleeding forehead
1 (6.7%)

other
0 (0.0%)

Why does modern-day Ye Zun have a shift/train rather than a billowy cloak like the Envoy’s?

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His cloak is in the wash
0 (0.0%)

It kept catching on things
1 (6.2%)

Fashions have changed in the last 10k years, and he keeps up with the trends unlike *some* people
10 (62.5%)

He doesn't like how it feels over his hair, especially with the hood up
3 (18.8%)

Ye Zun's charisma *is* his billowy cloak
6 (37.5%)

He used it as a draught-stopper in the pillar and it got crumpled
4 (25.0%)

other
0 (0.0%)

Comments

[china_shop]

Objectively, if the version of events Ye Zun believes is true was actually true? Which probably equals 'from his perspective all along', yeah, since none of what he believes is true.

Ah, okay, that's where the disconnect is.

I feel like even if Ye Zun were right that Shen Wei had deliberately abandoned him (out of carelessness, desperation, or misplaced trust in the Rebel leader), then it wouldn't logically follow that Shen Wei thinks of Ye Zun as his enemy or wants to wrong him any further. The problem is that Ye Zun is incapable of imagining that Shen Wei might have made a mistake. And that's even after he saw Shen Wei's tearful reaction to their reunion. (I'm not blaming Ye Zun for that: he's been brainwashed. I do blame him for condemning the entire world for what he perceives as Shen Wei's mistake, though.)

Anyway, what I meant upthread was that Ye Zun's believing that someone who lets you down or wrongs you one time must now hate you and be motivated to turn an entire population against you seems like a logical fallacy to me.

[trobadora]

I think even if Ye Zun were completely right and Shen Wei had abandoned him out of actual malice/deliberate cruelty, it still wouldn't follow that his followers now would necessarily have any opinion on Ye Zun. For all Ye Zun knows, Shen Wei shrugged and forgot all about him and never mentioned him at all - those Envoy fans of Shen Wei's may never even have heard of Ye Zun! (And oh, wouldn't Ye Zun seethe at the thought!)

[china_shop]

those Envoy fans of Shen Wei's may never even have heard of Ye Zun!

And if they heard some version of his story, they might well feel sorry for him (never linking it to the Envoy, or adapting it to fit their beliefs about him).

(And oh, wouldn't Ye Zun seethe at the thought!)

Right? The only thing worse that being despised is being forgotten. The ultimate insult!

[facethestrange]

"For all Ye Zun knows, Shen Wei shrugged and forgot all about him and never mentioned him at all - those Envoy fans of Shen Wei's may never even have heard of Ye Zun! (And oh, wouldn't Ye Zun seethe at the thought!)"

Omg, this has never occurred to me but YES ITA! This is such a fantastic point!! (And he really would! Maybe it did occur to him and he did seethe, damn, any possibility he could come up with would just make him more angry, not less. D:)

[trobadora]

And, you know, it is true that Shen Wei doesn't mention Ye Zun ... even if it's for entirely different reasons (aka guilt and shame and grief at not being able to save him)!

any possibility he could come up with would just make him more angry, not less

That's Ye Zun, heh. One reason why he's so hard to get off this train to mass destruction.

[facethestrange]

"Anyway, what I meant upthread was that Ye Zun's believing that someone who lets you down or wrongs you one time must now hate you and be motivated to turn an entire population against you seems like a logical fallacy to me."

And when it's put like that, I totally agree! :) The way I saw it, he's very focused on SW's actions in the past being fully malicious. So if they're not just as malicious in the present, then Ye Zun would have to in some way consider that SW has either changed in the meantime or that maybe at least some of his actions were not intentional. And if YZ could do that, there would be at least a bit less of a problem. :)

BUT trobadora is making an amazing point that I have not considered, and now I'm very in favor of that - SW could indeed be malicious and cruel AND intentionally ignore Ye Zun at the same time.

[china_shop]

The way I saw it, he's very focused on SW's actions in the past being fully malicious.

Yep.

I think the problem with the "SW subsequently ignores YZ" theory is that there's a ton of evidence against that, too: Shen Wei risks his life trying to save Ye Zun from the energy seal, and goes to talk to him at the pillar more than once in canon (and presumably many times pre-canon as well). But then, Ye Zun is a past master at ignoring any evidence that doesn't fit his worldview, so for him that's not a problem at all; he'd just read all that as gloating.

then Ye Zun would have to in some way consider that SW has either changed in the meantime or that maybe at least some of his actions were not intentional.

People do things they later regret all the time. (Sorry, I'm not even sure what point I'm trying to make anymore. That Ye Zun's grudge is illogical? Breaking News!! LOL.)

[facethestrange]

"But then, Ye Zun is a past master at ignoring any evidence that doesn't fit his worldview, so for him that's not a problem at all; he'd just read all that as gloating."

Definitely, and also he may be flip-flopping - SW not visiting him = ignoring him and/or riling up his followers against him, SW visiting him = gloating. I feel like there's nothing that can make YZ feel better and a lot of things that can make him feel worse in different ways.

(And yeah, if he considered at all that SW may be regretting what he did, the problem would also be smaller. :P)

[trobadora]

SW not visiting him = ignoring him and/or riling up his followers against him, SW visiting him = gloating

Yes, 100% this!

[china_shop]

Definitely, and also he may be flip-flopping

Oh, yes, great point! Absolutely no need for him to be consistent about any of it.