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sid_guardian2025-04-06 01:39 pm
china_shop) wrote in sid_guardian2025-04-06 01:39 pm
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Guardian Readalong: Vol. 2, Chapters 13 & 14
Welcome to this week's installment of the Guardian novel readalong! Here are last week's chapters, and you can find all previous discussions on the schedule post (vol. 1 part 1, vol. 1 part 2, vol. 2), or via the !readalong tag.
This week's chapters:
Chapter 13: Zhao Yunlan calls Shen Wei "Xiao-Wei" to defuse his fury at the Crows, and they leave the Yao Market. Daqing asks the Crows about his bell. The SID celebrates Lunar New Year's Eve with a party. Zhao Yunlan asks about Shen Wei's name. Chu Shuzhi leaves the SID library in a mood; Daqing tells Guo Changcheng to accompany him home. Zhao Yunlan arranges for Shen Wei to be called in to work so he can present Shen Wei with fait accompli cohabitation, but then he finds the portrait room and sends the movers away. Zhao Yunlan, Shen Wei and Daqing go to see Zhao Yunlan's parents, and Zhao Yunlan comes out to his mother.
Chapter 14: Changcheng follows Chu Shuzhi home; Chu Shuzhi tries to scare him off with cannibalism talk. Changcheng perseveres. Chu Shuzhi advises Changcheng to stop wasting time collecting so many merits; then he disappears. Zhao Yunlan tells Shen Wei he came out. Daqing tells Zhao Yunlan and Shen Wei that Lao-Chu's merit shackles were due to be removed but the Netherworld reneged. Shen Wei's knowledge and questions make Daqing suspicious about his identity. Zhao Yunlan sends a message telling Chu Shuzhi to come to the SID.
Phew! That's a lot!
The corresponding chapters in the Chinese version on JJWXC and the fan translation are:
Vol. 2 Ch. 13: ch. 64-66
Vol. 2 Ch. 14: ch. 67 and about the first fifth or so of ch. 68
Excerpts:
1. The SID Lunar New Year's Eve party
Toward the latter half of the night, after the New Year’s bell had already rung, drunk humans and ghosts alike started to run wild. Guo Changcheng flopped down on the table, sobbing loudly for some reason. After he finished crying, he tucked himself into a little corner and ignored everyone, meticulously polishing his work ID over and over with a microfiber cloth. Finally, he rolled under the table and fell into a deep sleep.
Chu Shuzhi, Lin Jing, Zhu Hong, and Daqing were gathered at a mahjong table. Other people’s chips automatically became dried fish when they arrived in front of Daqing. The cat’s expression was deadly serious. He had no choice but to keep winning, having eaten almost all his chips.
Lao-Li pulled a giant femur from out of nowhere and started pole dancing in front of everyone. Sangzan grabbed Wang Zheng’s hand, pulling her unexpectedly into his arms. He held her waist and lifted her up high; she laughed, humming a little tune from a faraway time, and danced a Hanga tribe dance with him.
2) Zhao Yunlan asks about Shen Wei's name
Zhao Yunlan silently put Shen Wei’s hand on his chest. Perhaps because of the alcohol, Zhao Yunlan’s pulse was a little fast. After a while, when Shen Wei thought he was about to fall asleep, Zhao Yunlan quietly asked, “‘Wei’… How did you come by that name?”
“It was originally the character Wei that’s made up of ‘mountain’ and ‘ghost.’” Shen Wei’s gaze dropped, seeming to gaze right through the gleaming floor; there was no knowing how far into the past he was looking. “But someone once said to me that while ‘mountain ghost’ was fitting, it was perhaps naming me into a corner. He told me that in this world, the mountains and seas are all connected, and lofty peaks stretch out endlessly. He suggested, ‘Why don’t we add a few more strokes and make it a proper name?’”
Zhao Yunlan touched his nose. This mysterious “someone” had a way of speaking that sounded rather familiar. “Who has the audacity to just randomly rename someone?”
Shen Wei smiled. “Just someone I met by chance on the road.”
3) Zhao Yunlan sees the portrait of Kunlun-jun
Eventually, the beam of light made its way to an ancient ink painting on the southern wall. It was huge, nearly occupying the entire wall on its own. The paper was as thin as a cicada’s wing, the surface as smooth as snow…and like all the others, it was a painting of a person.
The person was drawn with delicate brows and an almost lifelike expression. His long hair reached the ground, and he wore the simplest green robe imaginable. His head was tilted slightly, lips curved in the faintest hint of a smile. The brushwork was so vivid that it seemed the man might step out of the painting at any moment…and it was clearly none other than Zhao Yunlan himself!
Along the edge of the painting was a small line of text. It wasn’t modern simplified or traditional Chinese. In fact, it wasn’t any sort of writing he was familiar with. Zhao Yunlan had never laid eyes on it before. And yet, somehow, one quick look told him exactly what it said:
Laying eyes on Kunlun-jun for the first time, in the shades of the grove. A single fleeting glance and the melody of my heart faltered.
By Wei.
Was…was he, Zhao Yunlan, the Mountain God of the Great Wild…?
4) Zhao Yunlan comes out to his mother
She still seemed dumbfounded. Finally, stumbling over her words, she said, “Is he… The man you brought with you, is he…”
Zhao Yunlan nodded. He had both hands on the door, as though blocking it with his body. “I, your son, spent over half a year doing everything I could—cajoling and lying, consulting all thirty-six stratagems and seventy-two transformations… I used every trick I know. It would’ve been easier to start an uprising. And now he’s finally, finally mine. If you feel like you need to kill or maim someone, come at me, but please don’t go out there and ruin all my hard work. It’ll break my heart.”
To an onlooker, it would’ve appeared as though her soul had left her body. Her eyes far away, Zhao Yunlan’s mother began robotically wrapping dumplings without another word.
“Mom?”
His voice didn’t reach her. For a minute or two she was simply in a daze, completely unaware of what she was doing or what she had just heard. She was on autopilot.
Suddenly, after Zhao Yunlan’s repeated attempts to talk to her, she snapped out of it. Words began tumbling from her mouth before she could think. “What about your job? Will people gossip about you? What about your future? That’s right, I… I think your dad said you bought a house a few days ago. Do you still have money?”
Zhao Yunlan blinked, not at all sure how she’d jumped from him coming out to him not having money. If there was any logic there, he couldn’t see it. It seemed like she’d latched on to a few key terms and strung them into random sentences, and they all rushed out at once.
5) Chu Shuzhi gives Guo Changcheng some advice
A thick layer of glowing merits emanated from Guo Changcheng, who was about to cough his trachea into a bow. The impossibly white light seared Chu Shuzhi’s eyes.
The hand that had gripped Guo Changcheng’s neck suddenly lifted and came to rest on that messy bird’s nest atop his head. Guo Changcheng shivered instinctively. Chu Shuzhi patted the top of the man’s head, voice calmer and a bit tired now as he said, “You didn’t study properly as a kid, did you? Have you read The Injustice to Dou E? It clearly states that ‘those who act in kindness often suffer through poverty and live short lives, while those who do evil enjoy riches and long lives.’ Do you remember that?”
Guo Changcheng really wasn’t wired for studying. At the end of every year, he’d return everything he’d learned that year right back to the teacher, every last bit. So now he just squatted on the ground, looking up at Chu Shuzhi with a blank expression.
Chu Shuzhi tipped Guo Changcheng’s chin up and examined him for a while. “Your forehead is somewhat flat and narrow, which means the fate linking you and your parents is shallow. Your ears are thin, which means your youth was full of troubles. The middle third of your nose bridge protrudes a bit, which means you will lose the protection of your elders after you leave middle age, and the latter half of your life will be unpredictable.
“Overall, your face says you’ll have a hard life and ultimately won’t amount to much. There’s no point in collecting so many merits. Donating money and doing good will only make you even poorer. Try to be smarter from now on. Live in comfort like the nepo baby you are. Enjoy what you should and live a few good days while you can.”
Guo Changcheng kept looking up at him, confused.
“You really are a bit dense,” Chu Shuzhi said.
Questions:
On a scale of 1 to 10, how many feels do you have about the "Xiao-Wei" moment and how hard it mashes Shen Wei in the feels? Do you have a sense of why the Crows are breaking up with the rest of the Yao / helping Ghost Face? Thoughts on Daqing's being the one to send Guo Changcheng to accompany Chu Shuzhi, and generally taking up the mantle of leader in Zhao Yunlan's absence? Would you subscribe to the “Lord Meow Number One in the World” account? Zhao Yunlan's "Surprise! We're living together now!" plan: good idea / bad idea / it only works because it's them idea? On a scale of 1 to 10, how discomfiting is it for Zhao Yunlan to find Shen Wei's portrait room? On a scale of 1 to 10, how discomfiting is it for Shen Wei to meet Zhao Yunlan's mother? (Where is Zhao Yunlan's dad? Surely he should be there!) Zhao Yunlan's coming out speech: any notes? Does Chu Shuzhi really think Guo Changcheng's accumulating merits is a pointless waste of time, or is he just bitter because the Netherworld screwed him?
Poll #32943 SID Lunar New Year's Eve party
Open to: Registered Users, detailed results viewable to: All, participants: 6
What's your favourite detail from the SID Lunar New Year's Eve party?
View Answers
Guo Changcheng polishing his work ID with a microfiber cloth
3 (50.0%)
Chu Shuzhi, Lin Jing, Zhu Hong, and Daqing playing mahjong
0 (0.0%)
Daqing's mahjong chips turning into dried fish (and him eating them)
5 (83.3%)
Lao-Li pole-dancing around a giant femur
1 (16.7%)
Sang Zan and Wang Zheng doing their Hanga dance
1 (16.7%)
Shen Wei letting Zhao Yunlan use his thigh as a pillow
3 (50.0%)
other
0 (0.0%)
(As usual, these are all just conversation starters - feel free to answer all, some, or none, and to say as much or as little as you like! You don't have to be keeping up with the readalong!)
Our schedule for this round -- please sign up to host a post if you can!
no subject
Do you have a sense of why the Crows are breaking up with the rest of the Yao / helping Ghost Face?
Not even in the slightest!
Would you subscribe to the "Lord Meow Number One in the World" account?
Only if I knew it was the selfie account of a cat yao! :D
Does Chu Shuzhi really think Guo Changcheng's accumulating merits is a pointless waste of time, or is he just bitter because the Netherworld screwed him?
I think he's just bitter,
And here are my thoughts on chapters 13 & 14:
"How dare the Crow tribe harm you? Wretched, ungrateful things! Even death by a thousand cuts or their total extinction could never make up for-"
Major kudos to the drama for its version of this scene, getting in a credible echo! Both Shen Wei with the killing intent and Zhao Yunlan with the "Xiao-Wei" - even though everything else is different, and it's a far more personal scene. Part of that is of course because the drama has to visualise it all, and that often means personifying conflicts, so we get Ya Qing personally as the target of Shen Wei's (justified) anger, rather than the Crow Tribe in general. But also, it fits drama!Shen Wei much better, of course. :)
What had he meant by "ungrateful"?
Hee! I love Zhao Yunlan being sharp. :D
Other than the half-yao man, every member of their tribe was short, with large noses and deeply wrinkled faces.
Fascinating! Exactly none of this is similar in the drama. *g*
I have no idea what it means that the Crows are parting ways with the rest of the yao, or why they would - very good of the drama for giving us some of Ya Qing's reasons right at her first appearance!
Winter Jasmine cried out in shock. "Crow Elder!"
Fourth Uncle held her back.
Amazing! I assume this is where the script writers got the idea of personifying the conflict via Ya Qing and Ying Chun being close. And it's basically impossible to imagine the Yashou plotline without that element!
And the bit where Daqing approaches the Crows is so fascinating - I love getting to see him among other yao, and I really like that he's trying to track down what happened to his bells.
Lao-Wu happily toasted lao-Li with a stick of incense, and the other man returned the toast with alcohol in a bone china cup.
Awww! :D :D :D
Other people's chips automatically became dried fish when they arrived in front of Daqing. The cat's expression was deadly serious. He had no choice but to keep winning, having eaten almost all his chips.
1) Huh, that's so weird! Why do the chips turn into dried fish?
2) But Daqing eating them, and then having to keep winning, is so delightful! I adore it. :D
He held her waist and lifted her up high; she laughed, humming a little tune from a faraway time, and danced a Hanga tribe dance with him.
Awww, is that why they get a whole dancing scene in the drama?
Shen Wei took a seat and let Zhao Yunlan lie down and use his thigh as a pillow. He gently massaged Zhao Yunlan's temples.
So sweet!
They hope their son will be happy and at peace with a wife and kids. Bringing me over like this... How can you deny your parents a good New Year?
Ugh, I don't like this. :(
He had lived thousands of years like that, each day exactly like the one before. But somehow, after hearing Zhao Yunlan put it that way, it suddenly struck him as unfair. He was long since accustomed to passing his days like that, but now a feeling washed over him: the feeling that he couldn't bear a single day more of it.
Poor, poor Shen Wei!
This mysterious "someone" had a way of speaking that sounded rather familiar. "Who has the audacity to just randomly rename someone?"
LOLOLOL! :D
With a hmph, Daqing settled in front of a computer and turned it on with a paw. Wielding the mouse with the same paw, he opened a browser. It was no easy task.
That is an AMAZING image, and really should be fanart. :D
It looked for all the world as if text had flashed across Chu Shuzhi's face, right on his cheek, like the tattoos convicts had been forced to bear in ancient times.
Very cool! And also very awful.
The mover had never received such a weird job before, and was hesitant. "I-If the owner isn't here, shouldn't we..."
Seriously! Ugh. I'm good with ZYL being stalkery at this point, since it's entirely mutual, but involving other people makes it very not fun for me because that mover doesn't know what he's complicit in here, and is going along with it anyway, and I hate it. And I also hate that ZYL is pushing this guy into extremely unethical behaviour. He could have told him he was doing it with SW's agreement, and I wouldn't have minded! But no.
the things to be moved and the things he planned to throw out and replace for Shen Wei
And I know I just said I'm good with ZYL being stalkery, but here's where he crosses a line for me, because throwing out someone's belongings is completely beyond the pale, and someone who would even consider doing so - just, NO. So very very NO that I'm back at DNW DNW DNW for their entire relationship. :(
It wasn't modern simplified or traditional Chinese. In fact, it wasn't any sort of writing he was familiar with. Zhao Yunlan had never laid eyes on it before.
Ooh, neat! Ancient script!
Shen Wei left without a backward glance, anxious fury filling his mind with hundreds of possible scenarios. He was, after all, a gentleman. It could never have crossed his mind that someone might go to such lengths to lure him away just to move his belongings and steal a couple pairs of underwear.
More UGH, because worrying Shen Wei to this degree is also not on. ZYL is behaving appallingly in this whole episode.
As he stood frozen in the doorway, an uncontrollable desire to kill boiled up inside him. (...) With tremendous effort, he just barely managed to snap out of it.
Newsflash, Shen Wei: you just did control the "uncontrollable" desire! Stop thinking of yourself as out of control, when you never actually are!
Zhao Yunlan didn't breathe a word about the Lock of Kunlun or anything else he had seen in that bedroom.
I feel like I should be talking about that, but eh. I'd be more shocked if he actually did say something.
But given Zhao Yunlan's habit of spewing sheer nonsense, his mom didn't take him seriously at all.
LOL! She does know him.
His mom grabbed her rolling pin and swung it at him as if by habit.
SIGH. (The whole woman-with-rolling-pin thing is such a traditional stereotype here, though it's directed at husbands, not sons. Fake-"powerful" women terrorising the poor little husband, who in reality has total power over her. HAAAAATE. This has a very very similar vibe to me - a man play-acting at being cowed by a "powerful" woman.)
(And clearly she isn't actually terrorising him; the narrative describes her as "easygoing and accepting" just a few paragraphs down.)
I do like the coming-out part, though! And that it takes her a while to realise he's actually telling her something real, not just running his mouth for once, and then to process it all. And that her first worries are about the consequences for him. And then she asks him how serious he actually is.
If he's as great as you say, how could he fall for you? Can he see a thing with those glasses?"
And then she's back at her usual snark! Hee!
An "ah" escaped Guo Changcheng, as if he were intimidated, but when Chu Shuzhi turned and resumed walking, he once again heard footsteps behind him. Would nothing stop the young idiot?!
Hee! It's so fascinating that this got turned into that Dixing scene where CSZ tries to scare GCC off - and how well it works, despite the very different context!
And I love that DQ sent GCC with him, and that GCC takes it seriously and won't be sent away.
No wonder Chu-ge doesn't eat peas.
LOLOLOL! And I love that Xiao-Guo just can't manage to be afraid here.
"I don't owe a thing to the Heavens or Earth! My conscience is clean! I've been atoning for my crimes for three hundred years-I paid it all off ages ago. Who the fuck do they think they are? What right do they have to judge me?" Chu Shuzhi squeezed these final words out from between his teeth. "If that's how it is, why shouldn't I actually commit the crimes they're accusing me of?!"
Poor, poor CSZ!
I accidentally came out to her.
LOL, "accidentally". (Why does he pretend it was accidental?)
Prolonging the sentence on the merit shackles seems to be normal practice. Another century or two would be typical.
The Netherworld sucks.
This was Zhao Yunlan's first time hearing the story too. "And then what happened?" he asked.
It's so weird to me that ZYL didn't care to hear CSZ's background before! He's working with the guy - shouldn't he care about what kind of person he is? I feel drama!ZYL definitely knows as much about drama!CSZ's background as was available to him. (Drama!DQ definitely knows, just like novel!DQ - he gets cut off talking about it at one point.)
Before a little yao can cultivate a human form, the thing they most fear encountering is a child under seven.
So fascinating!
Daqing deftly tapped away at the screen with his paw pads.
:D :D :D
Version comparison - no big differences, just a few small things I noticed, though there are probably more:
But after long silence, Shen Wei only says blandly, "It's alright, I'm used to it."
The second paragraph isn't in the official translation.
This line isn't in the JJWXC/fan translation version.
Shen Wei smiles unnaturally. His back is upright and greatly tensed, like a fully-drawn bow.
This isn't in the official translation.
Official translation: Their sexuality is becoming more socially accepted these days. Why?
Fan translation: It's a normal social phenomenon, and it exists even in animals. Sooner or later, the law will recognise it... Why are you asking this?
Another bit missing from the official translation. (In the fan translation, this comes after SW explains the Netherworld's habit of adding a few centuries to a sentence.) Also, when SW asks about what happened with CSZ, the fan translation has this bit:
"I only know roughly what happened, but not the details," Zhao Yunlan replies, "you should ask Da Qing."
So in that version, he seems to know more than in the official translation! And the following bit from ZYL's POV is also not in the official translation:
No wonder Chu Shuzhi is always so on edge, he is even worse than me," this seems to be the first time Zhao Yunlan has heard of this, "I thought it was just because he is an undead. He deals with the dead every day; he is alright though when nothing gets in his way, but if he is mad he will bite anyone's head off... so what did he do to that person? Cut up the stomach and ate all the insides? Swallowed in whole?"
And likewise the following bit, with SW speaking:
His case had been decided three hundred years ago, and closed cases cannot be re-opened, otherwise I..."
Otherwise, the Soul Slayer has the power to negotiate his release, perhaps.
Zhao Yunlan hits the brakes on the side of the road. He takes out a Guardian Order from his wallet, and rapidly scribbles a few words on to the talisman... "Meet me at No. 4 Bright Avenue before midnight". Then, he folds it into a paper crane.
Before he can send it out, a traffic officer knocks on the window, "Hey, what's going on, why is your car parked here?"
Zhao Yunlan bends down and puts on an agonised pretence, "Sorry, I have a cramp in my legs. I need a minute, just one minute."
He stealthily wipes his palm on the car door, and the paper crane in his hand sublimates into a swirl of smoke, vanishing in the air.
no subject
>
> Not even in the slightest!
It's weird, isn't it? Especially given, as
Both Shen Wei with the killing intent and Zhao Yunlan with the "Xiao-Wei" - even though everything else is different, and it's a far more personal scene.
The "killing intent" here made me pause. I've always read that drama scene as Shen Wei being outraged that Ya Qing would even go so far as to threaten Zhu Hong (one of ZYL's SID, an innocent, and relatively defenceless at that stage). But thinking about it from a novel POV, how much of Shen Wei's icy anger is in response to Ya Qing's part in Ye Zun's attack on ZYL himself? (Have I just been missing this extremely obvious motivation, all this time?)
I have to admit, I prefer it if he's more widely furious about Ya Qing's actions, rather than avenging ZYL alone.
I have no idea what it means that the Crows are parting ways with the rest of the yao, or why they would - very good of the drama for giving us some of Ya Qing's reasons right at her first appearance!
Yes!! And that her reasons are not unreasonable, too.
And the bit where Daqing approaches the Crows is so fascinating - I love getting to see him among other yao, and I really like that he's trying to track down what happened to his bells.
Yes, that's all so good!!
1) Huh, that's so weird! Why do the chips turn into dried fish?
I assume it was one of Daqing's (possibly involuntary) powers.
Awww, is that why they get a whole dancing scene in the drama?
That, and so they can explicitly make the end-credits song romantic, so that we know ZYL/SW is a romance, even if the drama can't state it out loud. ;-p
> > They hope their son will be happy and at peace with a wife and kids. Bringing me over like this... How can you deny your parents a good New Year?
>
> Ugh, I don't like this. :(
It seems a natural way to think in a relatively homophobic society where marriage is (or historically has been) often as much about duty to family as it is about love, though, right? And Shen Wei has lived in that kind of society, feeling like an outsider and hating his own essential nature, for thousands of years.
And I know I just said I'm good with ZYL being stalkery, but here's where he crosses a line for me, because throwing out someone's belongings is completely beyond the pale
Right? The lack of consideration for Shen Wei's feelings and attachment to his belongings, omg!! I would be so furious at the presumption! (At least with the house-choosing and -buying, ZYL bought it for himself and offered SW a place in it. But even that made me go, no, let him have a say in where you both live!!)
So very very NO that I'm back at DNW DNW DNW for their entire relationship. :(
:-( :-( :-(
(Does that DNW come and go, scene by scene, or does it ruin the surrounding parts, too?)
Newsflash, Shen Wei: you just did control the "uncontrollable" desire! Stop thinking of yourself as out of control, when you never actually are!
I guess it's the fact that it takes tremendous effort? I can imagine I'd find it pretty unnerving, too, if I had to struggle to suppress homicidal impulses.
I feel like I should be talking about that, but eh. I'd be more shocked if he actually did say something.
Heh.
The whole woman-with-rolling-pin thing is such a traditional stereotype here
From other Chinese media? Or more generally? I can't tell how much mother-on-child violence is a culturally acceptable trait, a fictional culturally acceptable trait, and/or heightening her character to fit the rest of the novel, with its crowd of weird, often-violent characters. Like, DQ often punches and swipes at ZYL, for example, and we just brush it aside because we know the relationship underneath is solid. Admittedly, here between ZYL and his mother, that's complicated by filial piety and duty, so ZYL can't defend himself as well, but as you say, a lot of it is for show. /how it reads to me outside of the context you're bringing to it, fwiw
I do like the coming-out part, though! And that it takes her a while to realise he's actually telling her something real, not just running his mouth for once, and then to process it all. And that her first worries are about the consequences for him. And then she asks him how serious he actually is.
Yes, I liked all of that, too.
And then she's back at her usual snark! Hee!
I thought that was a great way to show her acceptance.
> > No wonder Chu-ge doesn't eat peas.
>
> LOLOLOL! And I love that Xiao-Guo just can't manage to be afraid here.
In the drama they changed it to "How are your teeth so strong?" :D
LOL, "accidentally". (Why does he pretend it was accidental?)
Maybe he doesn't want to hear any more of Shen Wei's disapproval of their relationship (vicariously, on ZYL's parents' behalf)? If Shen Wei thinking coming out to his parents on a holiday is unkind, better to keep it an accident?
> > Prolonging the sentence on the merit shackles seems to be normal practice. Another century or two would be typical.
>
> The Netherworld sucks.
So much! I think one of the difficulties in the drama adaptation is having SW more closely aligned with Dixing but still have Dixing be so terrible. It's harder to get around the "why isn't he trying harder to change/fix things?" problem -- though they do a reasonable job by implying separate jurisdictions.
It's so weird to me that ZYL didn't care to hear CSZ's background before! He's working with the guy - shouldn't he care about what kind of person he is?
I know! So weird!!
But after long silence, Shen Wei only says blandly, "It's alright, I'm used to it."
No version of Shen Wei will ever understand how upsetting those words can be. ;-p
Was...was he, Zhao Yunlan, the Mountain God of the Great Wild...?
This line isn't in the JJWXC/fan translation version.
Oh, interesting. Adding it changes the focus of the scene quite a lot, I think. Not "OMG, a shrine!?!" but instead, the realisation/confirmation about Kunlun.
Is the bit with SW & ZYL's mother before or after the coming out scene? (Also, poor SW! So awkward!)
And so interesting how they changed ZYL's mother's opinion of gay people. Huh.
As always, thanks so much for the version comparison!! <3 <3 <3
no subject
The Netherworld and Ghost Face are two different factions, though - I'm assuming the Crows are working for Ghost Face.
The "killing intent" here made me pause. I've always read that drama scene as Shen Wei being outraged that Ya Qing would even go so far as to threaten Zhu Hong (one of ZYL's SID, an innocent, and relatively defenceless at that stage). But thinking about it from a novel POV, how much of Shen Wei's icy anger is in response to Ya Qing's part in Ye Zun's attack on ZYL himself? (Have I just been missing this extremely obvious motivation, all this time?)
Haha, I think you may have! IMO his fury is about her allying with Ye Zun and being complicit in everything he's done so far, and the attack on ZYL is the most recent, most personal, and also the biggest one (since it involved Ye Zun actually breaking free of the Pillar enough to project himself to Haixing and act himself rather than through minions), with potentially far-reaching consequences (see: timeline, and Kunlun not being blind!). So I think his fury about that particular act is a big part of his reaction, yeah, and the attack on Zhu Hong is just the final straw.
(I don't think it's about avenging ZYL, though. That doesn't feel like drama!SW to me.)
And that her reasons are not unreasonable, too.
Exactly! The drama is so good at giving (almost) everyone semi-reasonable motives.
That, and so they can explicitly make the end-credits song romantic, so that we know ZYL/SW is a romance, even if the drama can't state it out loud. ;-p
Oh yeah, that's definitely why they're using the ending credits song there, and why it's so prominently "their" song in the Hanga flashbacks. Much appreciated! *g*
It seems a natural way to think in a relatively homophobic society where marriage is (or historically has been) often as much about duty to family as it is about love, though, right? And Shen Wei has lived in that kind of society, feeling like an outsider and hating his own essential nature, for thousands of years.
Yeah, and I hate it. As an outsider, he should see this stuff more clearly, and I hate it so much that he apparently hates himself enough to buy into this nonsense. :(
Right? The lack of consideration for Shen Wei's feelings and attachment to his belongings, omg!! I would be so furious at the presumption! (At least with the house-choosing and -buying, ZYL bought it for himself and offered SW a place in it. But even that made me go, no, let him have a say in where you both live!!)
RIGHT????
The house doesn't bother me as much with me because SW, if he didn't like it, could either refuse to move in, or just up the ante and buy another place for them both himself. ;) Whereas throwing out someone's belongings is just - I can't even.
(Does that DNW come and go, scene by scene, or does it ruin the surrounding parts, too?)
It comes and goes, but overall I really can't like novel!ZYL, and I'm always glad to turn back to the drama version, who I love.
I guess it's the fact that it takes tremendous effort? I can imagine I'd find it pretty unnerving, too, if I had to struggle to suppress homicidal impulses.
I feel like after thousands of years he should be used to it. :p
>>>>The whole woman-with-rolling-pin thing is such a traditional stereotype here
From other Chinese media? Or more generally?
No, I meant it's a stereotype here, where I live.
Maybe he doesn't want to hear any more of Shen Wei's disapproval of their relationship (vicariously, on ZYL's parents' behalf)? If Shen Wei thinking coming out to his parents on a holiday is unkind, better to keep it an accident?
Oh, huh, that would make sense, and also be very sad. :(
So much! I think one of the difficulties in the drama adaptation is having SW more closely aligned with Dixing but still have Dixing be so terrible. It's harder to get around the "why isn't he trying harder to change/fix things?" problem -- though they do a reasonable job by implying separate jurisdictions.
Yeah, they're doing pretty well, but it's definitely a difficult balancing act.
No version of Shen Wei will ever understand how upsetting those words can be. ;-p
RIGHT???
Oh, interesting. Adding it changes the focus of the scene quite a lot, I think. Not "OMG, a shrine!?!" but instead, the realisation/confirmation about Kunlun.
Yeah, agreed! It's such a fascinating shift.
Is the bit with SW & ZYL's mother before or after the coming out scene? (Also, poor SW! So awkward!)
Before - it's before they head into the kitchen.
And so interesting how they changed ZYL's mother's opinion of gay people. Huh.
I think the change is probably trying to tone it down during edits, for censorship purposes?
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It does say that the Netherworld hired the Crow who blinded Zhao Yunlan, to specifically do that/to use any means necessary to open his Heavenly Eye. Which obviously doesn't mean that the Crow couldn't be working for both sides, and the other side just doesn't know about it.
"with potentially far-reaching consequences (see: timeline, and Kunlun not being blind!)"
Yikes, I didn't even think of this as one of the things that could unnerve Shen Wei about it, but of course it would!
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The Magistrate thinks "some useless underling" involved the Crows and unintentially made it obvious to ZYL that the Netherworld was involved; I'm suggesting that underling isn't incompetent, but actually working for Ghost Face, and therefore not concerned with hiding the Netherworld's activities the way the Magistrate is.
but of course it would!
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Oooh, this is so neat and would explain what's happening, yes! And both sides happen to have the same goal re: Kunlun's memories, right? (This is one of the things I don't remember, so it may or may not have a canon answer. xD)
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Oh, riiight. Right right right. (You can tell I'm not reading for the politics, lol.)
Haha, I think you may have! IMO his fury is about her allying with Ye Zun and being complicit in everything he's done so far, and the attack on ZYL is the most recent, most personal, and also the biggest one (since it involved Ye Zun actually breaking free of the Pillar enough to project himself to Haixing and act himself rather than through minions), with potentially far-reaching consequences (see: timeline, and Kunlun not being blind!). So I think his fury about that particular act is a big part of his reaction, yeah, and the attack on Zhu Hong is just the final straw.
Yes, most of that is what I was thinking before. That he condemns her for working with YZ to undermine the peace, and the attack on ZH was the final straw. He says, "However unreasonable you may be, these are your tribe's matters. But you teamed up with evil forces and harmed innocent people. The peace that everyone worked so hard to keep is being ruined by selfish people like you. Even if you die thousands of times, you can't absolve yourself from this crime!" So I was thinking of all the other innocent people harmed and killed by Team Ye Zun -- not about the attack on ZYL, or that her part in ZYL's blindness was SW's final straw, and that this event might have triggered a delayed reaction/opportunity to punish her for it.
(And I still prefer it if he's acting on behalf of the general populace, and not from personal motives. ;-p)
(I don't think it's about avenging ZYL, though. That doesn't feel like drama!SW to me.)
No, you're right. Drama!Envoy is about laying down the law. He's enacting what he sees as summary justice, even if he is going outside his jurisdiction to do it. (Imagine if he'd actually executed her, though, and without any due process! How would that have affected his relationships with the Yashou, the Haixing Administration, and with ZYL?!)
The house doesn't bother me as much with me because SW, if he didn't like it, could either refuse to move in, or just up the ante and buy another place for them both himself. ;)
Except that, as you've pointed out before, novel!ZYL has so much emotional power over novel!SW that I don't think SW would do either of those things. He'd think, "This is what Kunlun wants, and I will accept it, even if it's not what I would have chosen for myself." :-(
> > I guess it's the fact that it takes tremendous effort? I can imagine I'd find it pretty unnerving, too, if I had to struggle to suppress homicidal impulses.
>
> I feel like after thousands of years he should be used to it. :p
I thought that spending time with ZYL and being close to him (which he hasn't allowed himself over the millennia) was what was triggering all these intense feelings? So he hasn't had a chance to get used to it before/lately.
No, I meant it's a stereotype here, where I live.
Oh, right. Ugh. I'm sorry. :-(
There's a lot of mother-on-child violence in Kdramas, especially mother-on-daughter violence and especially in the older Kdramas. It's usually framed as an expression of love/caring/appropriate discipline, and we're not supposed to condemn the mother for it or think it damages the relationship. (I see it's illegal now, as of Jun 2021, but it was still featured in a recent, high-profile drama.) Which, I know, is hard to read that way!! But it does make me wonder how the dynamic between ZYL and his mother would read to (or is intended to be read by) a Chinese audience.
*searches some more* This NYT article from 2016 references "a tradition of “dama jiaoyu,” or hitting-and-cursing education", but from my search, it looks like there's an ongoing campaign to outlaw child corporal punishment in China. /wildly off-topic, hi
> > Is the bit with SW & ZYL's mother before or after the coming out scene? (Also, poor SW! So awkward!)
>
> Before - it's before they head into the kitchen.
Ah, thanks. Interesting that priest cut it -- maybe she didn't want to give ZYL's mother a chance to approve of SW as a person before ZYL came out, so as to make the stakes/tension even higher...
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I think in this case the larger issue and the personal motives converge. *g* If it were just the personal, he wouldn't act on it.
Except that, as you've pointed out before, novel!ZYL has so much emotional power over novel!SW that I don't think SW would do either of those things. He'd think, "This is what Kunlun wants, and I will accept it, even if it's not what I would have chosen for myself." :-(
:( :( :(
Yeah, that's my least favourite aspect of their dynamic.
I thought that spending time with ZYL and being close to him (which he hasn't allowed himself over the millennia) was what was triggering all these intense feelings? So he hasn't had a chance to get used to it before/lately.
Not since Shen San, I guess. That makes sense, yeah - good point.
But it does make me wonder how the dynamic between ZYL and his mother would read to (or is intended to be read by) a Chinese audience.
Yeah, very good question, I'd love to know that, too!
but from my search, it looks like there's an ongoing campaign to outlaw child corporal punishment in China
Very glad to hear it!
maybe she didn't want to give ZYL's mother a chance to approve of SW as a person before ZYL came out, so as to make the stakes/tension even higher...
That would make sense, yeah!
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Hmmm, I don't really see that? And yeah, it's mostly just because it IS what he would have chosen for himself. :P But if it actually wasn't, Zhao Yunlan wouldn't wait a single second before selling it and buying a different place that Shen Wei actually likes. I don't see Shen Wei as afraid to speak up, and even if he was, Zhao Yunlan would see the hints - I feel like he's only clueless if he's actively thinking hard about something else, which is not 100% of the time generally
may be 90% of the time tho, lol.(no subject)
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Ikr, when I watched the dancing scene for the first time I was like 'oh, this scene is so long to really drive it home how much this is not at all a Weilan song *wink wink*' And the longer it went on, the more I was thinking it. xD
"It seems a natural way to think in a relatively homophobic society where marriage is (or historically has been) often as much about duty to family as it is about love, though, right?"
Yeah, the way I saw this is not that he agrees with this statement, it's that he just simply states what the situation is.
"Like, DQ often punches and swipes at ZYL, for example, and we just brush it aside because we know the relationship underneath is solid."
He's also a literal cat - I feel like there's no way to be a cat and not do that. ;D
"No version of Shen Wei will ever understand how upsetting those words can be. ;-p"
Lmao YES, he needs to stop saying that, it's too heartbreaking. :P (Well, technically in the novel he actually stopped saying that because it was cut. ;D)
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Haha, right? "LOOK HOW ROMANTIC THE SHOW'S THEME SONG IS!! IT'S ALL ABOUT LOOOOOOOOVE!!"
Yeah, the way I saw this is not that he agrees with this statement, it's that he just simply states what the situation is.
Yeah, exactly. (Plus, given his issues, I really can't imagine novel!SW thinking of himself as the ideal son-in-law who would be welcomed. I mean, aside from anything else, he knows what his presence is doing to ZYL physically. /o\)
He's also a literal cat - I feel like there's no way to be a cat and not do that. ;D
Somehow, my cat restrains herself, lol. :D :D :D
Well, technically in the novel he actually stopped saying that because it was cut. ;D
Haha, does that count as character development? ;D
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Ahhh, ouch, I didn't even think of that! Of course he doesn't say it and sticks to 'I would still not be welcome even if I was just a regular person' when Zhao Yunlan doesn't even know about the energy drain yet, but this (along with all the other reasons why he thinks he doesn't deserve good things) has to be a factor in why he talks about himself like that.
"Somehow, my cat restrains herself, lol. :D :D :D"
LOL AW, yeah, I was a bit unfair to cats - I had a few who didn't do that either. :D But for a sassy, big-personality cat like DQ, I think smacking people is just to be expected. xD
"Haha, does that count as character development? ;D"
Lolol. :D :D :D
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"Only if I knew it was the selfie account of a cat yao! :D"
Same, lol. :D But I'm happy for him that he has so many followers despite no one knowing about that - I guess he really is very cute. :D :D
"Amazing! I assume this is where the script writers got the idea of personifying the conflict via Ya Qing and Ying Chun being close. And it's basically impossible to imagine the Yashou plotline without that element!"
Ikr, they just grabbed these two tiny lines and ran with them - I love when they do that! :D
"Awww, is that why they get a whole dancing scene in the drama?"
Another thing they just ran with. :D (And yeah, also to show how much this is not a Weilan song, not even a little bit. :D)
"And I know I just said I'm good with ZYL being stalkery, but here's where he crosses a line for me, because throwing out someone's belongings is completely beyond the pale, and someone who would even consider doing so - just, NO."
In general, ITA! But in this case Shen Wei has explicitly said that he doesn't actually live in his apartment ("I only stop by here occasionally, and rarely for long when I do."), so I somehow filed this under something different than going through someone's lifetime's worth of potentially sentimental belongings and deciding which ones of them can go. Like, yeah, still ITA that asking first is always the better/correct option. But I feel like these are all purely utilitarian objects that can be replaced. (On the other hand, why would you even get the idea to replace anything in the first place, if you can just take it and save the money. :P)
"I'd be more shocked if he actually did say something."
Lol yeah, I would also be very confused if Zhao Yunlan suddenly started sharing things instead of quietly thinking about them for ages. :D
"Hee! It's so fascinating that this got turned into that Dixing scene where CSZ tries to scare GCC off - and how well it works, despite the very different context!"
I love how they somehow made it exactly the same scene while also being a completely different scene. :D
"But after long silence, Shen Wei only says blandly, "It's alright, I'm used to it.""
Ahhhh, Shen Wei, stop saying that. :P They totally took it for the drama from here, didn't they. :D
> "Was...was he, Zhao Yunlan, the Mountain God of the Great Wild...?
This line isn't in the JJWXC/fan translation version."
Oh, that is an interesting choice, I guess to just spell it out without any doubts.
"His case had been decided three hundred years ago, and closed cases cannot be re-opened, otherwise I..."
Otherwise, the Soul Slayer has the power to negotiate his release, perhaps."
I see why this would be removed - I can't see Shen Wei almost slipping up, especially for no particular reason.
"Zhao Yunlan bends down and puts on an agonised pretence, "Sorry, I have a cramp in my legs. I need a minute, just one minute.""
I see how this scene adds nothing but it was fun, lol, I'm always up for Zhao Yunlan being Zhao Yunlan. :D
(Thank you for sharing all the differences, as always! ♡)
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Me too! It's one of the things that makes the drama so brilliant, they picked up ALLLL the things from the novel and then made something similar-but-new out of them. That's such a great approach to adaptation! ♥ ♥ ♥
But in this case Shen Wei has explicitly said that he doesn't actually live in his apartment ("I only stop by here occasionally, and rarely for long when I do."), so I somehow filed this under something different than going through someone's lifetime's worth of potentially sentimental belongings and deciding which ones of them can go. Like, yeah, still ITA that asking first is always the better/correct option. But I feel like these are all purely utilitarian objects that can be replaced.
I guess I can see how ZYL might look at it that way, but you can be attached to purely utilitarian objects, and anyway they're Shen Wei's and it's not for ZYL to decide what matters to SW and what doesn't. I really hate the underlying attitude and wish this bit about throwing things out wasn't there.
(On the other hand, why would you even get the idea to replace anything in the first place, if you can just take it and save the money. :P)
Haha, yeah, that too!
I love how they somehow made it exactly the same scene while also being a completely different scene. :D
RIGHT????? :D
They totally took it for the drama from here, didn't they. :D
I thought so, too, but I don't actually remember what's in the novel's version of the kitchen scene, so for all I know it might have been moved there in the novel, too. *g*
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Ikr, I always marvel at this so much! ♡♡♡ And it looks like SUCH a complicated puzzle with so many moving parts to make it this way, and they did SO WELL (in the vast majority of cases) and I don't even know how, I'm just in awe. :D
"I guess I can see how ZYL might look at it that way, but you can be attached to purely utilitarian objects, and anyway they're Shen Wei's and it's not for ZYL to decide what matters to SW and what doesn't. I really hate the underlying attitude and wish this bit about throwing things out wasn't there."
Yeah, I can definitely see that. I would find it a whole lot worse if Shen Wei actually lived in his apartment, but it doesn't necessarily make it better that he doesn't.
"I thought so, too, but I don't actually remember what's in the novel's version of the kitchen scene, so for all I know it might have been moved there in the novel, too. *g*"
It's not in the kitchen scene in the novel. :)
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Yes! Every time I think about how they did it, I'm just stunned by it. :D
It's not in the kitchen scene in the novel. :)
Thank you, that's good to know!
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Agreed, agreed, agreed! And yet... I think it's safe to say that novel!Shen Wei's attachments are so ZYL-centric that anything ZYL bought for him would de facto outweigh his other preferences?
... okay, wait, I typed that, and then I thought "except for spatulas." And now I'm going, nope, all the kitchen stuff. I totally do not trust ZYL's kitchenware choices. Leave SW his implements!!! (Hee!)
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I think that's entirely true! But ZYL doesn't have his Kunlun memories, much less the memories of all his reincarnations, so he doesn't know which seemingly random item may be hugely emotionally charged for SW. Like a novel-verse equivalent to the lollipop wrapper - imagine ZYL throwing something like that out! /o\
(And yeah, SW doesn't really live in that flat, but he does keep his Kunlun shrine there, so ...)
I totally do not trust ZYL's kitchenware choices. Leave SW his implements!!! (Hee!)
And this! LOLOLOL! :D
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Lolol, I can't see Zhao Yunlan confidently thinking 'I totally know how to replace those', so they'd definitely stay imo, but maybe I'm overestimating him. xD :D
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Oh, that helps a bit. Thanks for the reminder! <3
(On the other hand, why would you even get the idea to replace anything in the first place, if you can just take it and save the money. :P)
From what I've seen, it's really common (and possibly expected) to buy all new appliances when moving into a new home. It's part of setting up house. (Do not quote me! My sample size is tiny!)
*searches a little* This website says, "Buy new brooms and mops. Because you are moving into a new space, you will not want to “sweep in your old troubles” with the broom from your last house." -- so it's not just appliances. (Why are search engines so terrible these days, ugh.)
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Wow, that's fascinating and not something I've ever heard of before, and hey, I'm happy for the people who have the money to do that. xD
The brooms and mops are very logical tho, and definitely what I've done too - I've never heard of the superstition, but packing up things that are always slightly dirty is just like, nah, I don't really need this. :P
(And UGH search engines just not working worth a damn anymore. *pokes them with a stick*)
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Actually, I can't find any confirmation of this on the internet, so it might just be a few people I know. [insert shrug emoticon here]
*pokes them with a stick*
Of dynamite? ;-p
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