Scene discussion: Shen Wei and Zhu Hong talk to Fourth Uncle (episode 19)

[trobadora]

Location: episode 19, 24:20 - 26:53

Context:

• Lao-Chu, Xiao-Guo and Ye Huo have been kidnapped by Zhu Jiu. The SID make a plan to capture Zhu Jiu, but need to keep Ya Qing out of the way so she can't rescue him when they cut the lights and stop him from teleporting away. Shen Wei says he'll go, but he needs to borrow Zhu Hong.


• On the way to the Snake village, Zhu Hong talks to Shen Wei about her feelings for Zhao Yunlan (and Shen Wei claims to not know much about love except from a biological POV, LOL).

Then, our scene starts with Shen Wei arriving at Fourth Uncle's house, and ends when Fourth Uncle has been convinced to help detain Ya Qing. There's a lot in this scene, Yashou politics and all, but I want to focus on two aspects in particular: Shen Wei and Fourth Uncle, and the cooperation between Shen Wei and Zhu Hong.

So, let's look at this scene:

A young Snake tribe member (#1) comes running to Fourth Uncle's house and tells him someone is coming: 四叔，有客人。
Fourth Uncle, there is a guest.

Fourth Uncle comes out of his house with another young Snake Tribe member (#2).

Fourth Uncle: 是谁呀？挑着饭点就来了。
Who is it? Choosing to come here at dinner time.



Shen Wei, in Haixing clothes, walks up to Fourth Uncle. Even though we last saw him with Zhu Hong, he's approaching alone - he has left Zhu Hong somewhere, and she's agreed to his plan.

Fourth Uncle stands there meeting him, flanked by the two Snake guys. He recognises Shen Wei - he must have seen him without his mask and possibly even in Haixing clothes before, since it only takes a quick look for him to know who he is: 你不是哪个黑 ...
Aren't you the Black -

Shen Wei interrupts, talking over him and preventing him from outing him to the two young Snake tribe members (as well as Zhu Hong, who may be listening in): 我是特调处新上任的顾问。我叫沈巍。
I am the SID's new consultant. My name is Shen Wei.

Fourth Uncle lets out a little laugh as he realises the Envoy is here incognito. He plays along, using the name he's been given, but still addresses him formally: 沈大人，大驾光临，有何见教啊？
Lord Shen, we are honoured by your presence. How can I help you?



The other Snake Tribe members are naturally baffled by how formal he's being, and one of them (#1) speaks up: 四叔，对个顾问怎么这么客气呀？
Fourth Uncle, why you are so polite to a consultant?



Fourth Uncle, a bit embarrassed, turns and snaps at him: 你给我闭嘴！
Shut the hell up!

Then he turns back to Shen Wei with an apologetic little laugh. Shen Wei politely ignores this and starts explaining why he's here.

Shen Wei: 四叔，想必你已经说过了，我们特调处和野心家之间的斗争已经臻于白热化了。 可这个野心家的背后一直有一个亚兽族长老的影子。 您同为亚兽族的长老。我希望您能对她的行动稍加约束。哪怕是几个小时也好，也许可以左右整个战局。
Fourth Uncle, you must have heard already that the conflict between the SID and our ambitious adversary has heated up. Yet behind this ambitous person is always the shadow of a Yashou elder. You, sir, are also a Yashou elder. I hope you can restrain her movement a little. Even if it's just for a few hours, it could influence the entire conflict.

(He switches between addressing Fourth Uncle with informal 你 and formal 您, and he calls Zhu Jiu 野心家, a person of ambition.)



Fourth Uncle makes a face and looks down, clearly not happy to be asked to interfere, then up at Shen Wei again

Fourth Uncle: 这个说起来容易做起来难啊。再说我们蛇族一向是与世无争的，就算你们打得再激烈，跟我们蛇子蛇孙有什么关系啊。
That's easier said than done. Besides, our Snake Tribe has always been above worldly affairs. No matter how intense the conflict, what does it have to do with us Snakes?

Shen Wei lets out a little huff as he smiles and ducks his head a little - he's ready for this; he knows Fourth Uncle well enough to predict him.

Shen Wei: 我就知道您会怎么说的，所以我带了一位同事过来。
I knew you'd say this, sir, so I brought a colleague along.

He turns his head, looking behind him, where - perfectly timed! - Zhu Hong is arriving. (She looks like she's coming in from the side. How close by was she? But no one noticed her approach.) She stops several steps behind Shen Wei, outside the fence, looking at her uncle.

Fourth Uncle is clearly surprised: 阿红？
Ah-Hong?



Zhu Hong stomps in, coming in strong: 四叔，您怎么能说跟您没关系呢？
Fourth Uncle, how can you say it has nothing to do with you?

(She's also using formal 您 here! And btw, this line is one of the sources of the "Snack Tribe" moniker, from a typo in the original subtitles where this line reads: "How can you say that there is no relationship with the Snack Tribe". The other source is from episode 13, where the three tribes are named as "Crow, Flower and Snack". :D)

Fourth Uncle looks like he's going to say something, but Zhu Hong doesn't let him - she forges on (switching to 你 now): 您可别忘了我也是特调处的一份子。
Don't you forget that I'm also a member of the SID!

Fourth Uncle, not happy to be accosted like this, is already getting into the spirit of this family argument thing: 我就知道不能放你回去。 翅膀硬了胳膊肘往外拐了，现在帮着你领导来为难四叔了，是吧？
I knew I shouldn't have let you go back. You've grown up to leave your family behind and side with outsiders. Now you're coming here to help your boss embarrass your uncle, are you?



Zhu Hong and Shen Wei turn towards each other and share a long look - they're a team here, working on a pre-established script. It's only natural that they skipped that scene, but damn, I wish we could have seen how they established this plan together!

Then, clearly according to plan, Zhu Hong turns back to her uncle. She walks up to him, takes his hand and goes all cute at him, pouting and cajoling: 四叔啊，你就答应我吧。
Fourth Uncle, just agree with me.

He looks at her, mouth half open as if he's going to speak, then turns away and looks down.

One of the Snake Guys (I think this is #2) speaks up: 四叔，鸦青长老是出了名的记仇。 这次要是站错了队...
Fourth Uncle, Elder Ya Qing is famous for holding a grudge. If we stand with the wrong side ...

Fourth Uncle interrupts, snapping at him: 还用你说。
You're telling me.

Then the other Snake guy (#1) looks up: 哪来的花香啊？
Where is the floral scent coming from?

Everyone looks around and up. Yellow blossoms appear in the air, accompanied by a sound effect, and Ying Chun takes human form before them. She immediately snaps at Fourth Uncle, pointing a finger at him.



Ying Chun: 你个老长虫，真实越活越回去了，连这点胆子都没有了。
Viki: You old worm! The longer you live, the worse you get. You're acting like a coward.

Fourth Uncle snaps back: 你个臭花苞，你也有脸说我。这亚兽族族长的位置空了这么多年。这族群方针都是我们三族三长老一起定的，当年说要休养生息。你不还拍手赞成的吗？我们三 ...
You smelly bud, you're one to talk! The position of Yashou High Chief has been empty for so many years. The three elders of our three tribes decided on this policy together; we decided to recuperate and rebuild our strength. You applauded that, didn't you? The three of us -

At the end, he points at her, clearly getting agitated.

(休养生息 means "recuperate and build up strength", according to Baidu. And 我们三族三长老 is more ambiguous than I remembered about whether or not the three elders in question were the current ones or their predecessors ...)

Ying Chun interrupts him, mocking: 你三个头啊你三。鸦青跑去干什么了，你别告诉你不知道。
'The three of us'! Don't tell me you don't know what Ya Qing is doing.

The dictionary says个头 means "my arse", which explains why Zhu Hong ducks her head laughing here. :D Meanwhile Shen Wei stands there listening without much of an expression, doing his best Envoy impression without the cloak-and-mask. It's quite a thing for this internal Yashou argument to be happening in front of the Envoy - and for Ying Chun to be willing to confront another Yashou not in private, but in front of an outsider like this.

Fourth Uncle looks away - he does know, and isn't happy about it, but still hesitates to get involved.

Ying Chun continues, less aggressively: 他走错了路。 我们就得把她拉回来。
She's chosen the wrong path. We have to pull her back.

Fourth Uncle looks down. Zhu Hong, sensing his weakness, deploys her pout again: 四叔啊。
Fourth Uncle ...



Fourth Uncle looks at Zhu Hong, then at Ying Chun, who looks back expectantly. Shen Wei also looks at him, likewise willing him to agree. Under the combined force of all three of them urging him to agree, he finally caves: 好吧。
Fine.



Shen Wei looks at Zhu Hong; Zhu Hong smiles and ducks her head, amused and pleased. Their plan has paid off.

---

Shen Wei and Fourth Uncle

Shen Wei was the one who volunteered to talk to Fourth Uncle and convince him to keep Ya Qing away while the SID traps Zhu Jiu. He could have gone to meet him as the Envoy, in his robes and mask, but he doesn't. He clearly knows he can't persuade Fourth Uncle on his own, not as a representative of Dixing and not on the strength of his arguments, and so he doesn't try. Instead, he borrows Zhu Hong.

How well does Shen Wei know Fourth Uncle? He knows Fourth Uncle won't agree easily, that he's committed to his tribe's neutrality even if it's not serving them well. He judges - entirely correctly - that bringing Zhu Hong is the crucial element that will sway him, that Fourth Uncle is weak to his niece's persuasion when he isn't to other arguments. Does he know all this from having met Fourth Uncle, or from Zhu Hong, or from other SID members who've met the Snake Tribe?

Of course, Ying Chun also plays an important role in convincing Fourth Uncle. Did Shen Wei arrange her appearance, in the same way he brought in Zhu Hong? Shen Wei and Ying Chun have been friendly, and Ying Chun helped him out before in following Ya Qing when he was otherwise occupied ... Does he know more about Fourth Uncle from Ying Chun? Have they talked about how to convince him to ally with them?

(Do you think that if Ying Chun hadn't arrived, Fourth Uncle would have given in to Zhu Hong's cajoling? Do you think Shen Wei and Ying Chun could have convinced him without Zhu Hong's help? Personally I think it really did take all three of them ...)

And how well does Fourth Uncle know the Envoy? The way Fourth Uncle talks to Shen Wei/the Envoy, it doesn't seem like he knows him well, and yet he recognises him at first sight, despite the Haixing clothes and hairdo and glasses. He must have met him at least without his mask before. Could he also have met him in Haixing clothes? Under what circumstances might that have happened?

(I know of only one fic that addresses how they might have met: Meeting in a Time of Peace by china_shop)

---

Shen Wei and Zhu Hong

Here we have a scene - the only time in the drama that I can remember - where Shen Wei and Zhu Hong work together separately from everyone else. And they make an excellent team!

It's important to remember that at this time, Zhu Hong doesn't yet know who Shen Wei really is. At this point, no one on the SID side except for Zhao Yunlan knows Shen Wei is the Black-Cloaked Envoy. So what does she know? She knows Shen Wei and Zhao Yunlan are close - that they're a couple and a package deal, whatever their official relationship status may be; the conversation she has with Shen Wei about love (on the way to Fourth Uncle's place, no less!) says so very clearly. She also knows Shen Wei has been involved in a lot of the SID's cases, has been in on a conference between Zhao Yunlan and the Dixing Regent, and gone to Dixing with Zhao Yunlan. Also, Zhu Jiu's hostage note was addressed not to the SID, not to Chief Zhao, but to Chief Zhao and Professor Shen together. And for some reason, Shen Wei was the one who volunteers to go talk to the Snake Tribe leader.

So what does Zhu Hong think is happening? Who does she think he is? What does she think is the reason for his role in all of this? Does she draw any conclusions?

She won't see him in action with the Envoy's sword and therefore officially find out the truth until Zhu Jiu's capture later in this episode, for which she's also present. (Why do you think that is? Maybe because she already figured something out here?)

Also, when it comes to talking to Fourth Uncle, it was Shen Wei who explicitly said he'd need to borrow her for this. It's about her uncle, but he's taking the lead. She could easily resent him for that, but she doesn't seem to, and she seems delighted to execute this plan together with him, to play a crucial part in it. Why do you think that is? She seems happy Zhao Yunlan is putting his confidence in her, but she could easily feel much less happy about being expected to follow Shen Wei's lead.

We don't get to see how they arranged for Zhu Hong to step in at exactly the right moment. What, exactly, did Shen Wei tell her in advance, to let them cooperate so smoothly? And how did she get close enough to step in without anyone noticing her before it was time? Do you think Dixing powers were involved in hiding her? And was she listening in? Did she hear her uncle nearly blurt out "Black-Cloaked Envoy" and call him Shen-daren?

(If Shen Wei also arranged Ying Chun's appearance, did he tell Zhu Hong about it in advance?)

I love the way they look at each other, twice during this scene - once when it's time for Zhu Hong to work on her uncle, and once after they've won. I love everything about the teamwork between them; I wish we could have had more of that. They're such a fascinating duo.

Does anyone have fic recs about Shen Wei and Zhu Hong?


Come talk to me about this scene, and about Shen Wei and Fourth Uncle, and Shen Wei and Zhu Hong! :D

Comments

[nnozomi]

I just have a little to say, but this is such a great post, with a lot going on laid out so clearly.
Mostly I agree that the teamwork between Shen Wei and Zhu Hong is wonderful! Their conversation about love is so funny and so painful--poor Zhu Hong who's too smart to see anything but the truth about Zhao Yunlan (except in her deliberate dream later on). I wonder if part of her willingness to talk with Shen Wei and work with him is based on her essential trust of Zhao Yunlan's judgment, that if Zhao Yunlan is willing to let somebody in this far there must be something worth it (as it were ;( ) there.
(Also I love her expert ability to manipulate her uncle with earnestness, pouts, and so on, all judged just right, making the most of her position as his niece while still retaining her adult independence.)

I can only think of one Shen Wei & Zhu Hong fic and I like it a lot, this post-episode 33 scene by galaxysoup: https://archiveofourown.org/works/18806227.

[lunarriviera]

I can only think of scenes in fics that are between Zhu Hong and Shen Wei, but a couple I really love are in clevermanka's "The Deconstruction of Hei Pao Shi" and in "The Ordinary Human Adventures of Shen Wei, Normal Man" by ladysisyphus. But I'll keep trying to think of more!

And really, who does "Professor Shen" think he's fooling, with all this limerence-is-biochemical stuff? It's not only vaguely insulting to Zhu Hong (she just has a bad crush, while he has a millennia-long true love) but it's sort of disconcerting if he really does believe this. So just where is your epic self-renewing supply of love chemicals coming from, Shen Wei? I don't buy it for a second; he's just trying to make her feel better (and failing, probably).

[trobadora]

Right? They're fabulous! And someone should do a scene discussion for that conversation about love in particular, too, so we can look at it in detail, but just in general, totally agreed here. That conversataion is really something! She sees Zhao Yunlan pretty clearly for the most part, and she also trusts him and wants his approval and is happy when he trusts her with something. And I think you're right that all of that plays into her willingness to work with Shen Wei.

And she's a pro at manipulating her uncle, yes! She knows how to reach him, even if she doesn't always win. You can see how he's wobbling under it!

Thank you for that link, I was remembering it while writing this post but couldn't find it. It's a fabulous fic!

[trobadora]

Thank you for the links! I can also recommend the fic nnozomi links in her comment above, which is brilliant. :D

Totally agreed on Shen Wei trying to make her feel better. I also think he's deflecting because she's the one who starts talking about her feelings for Zhao Yunlan, and that's not really a topic he wants to talk about, but also he doesn't want to rebuff her, so he tries to be as kind as possible while also being as clinical about it as possible. And I think even if it doesn't make her feel better, it does help that he's being kind about it.

[china_shop]

Oh, wow, this is a great post, and there's so much going on here!! It's taken me a few days to stop just enjoying the screencaps and your commentary, and think about the scene itself and whether I have anything to say about it. :-D

Fourth Uncle lets out a little laugh as he realises the Envoy is here incognito. He plays along, using the name he's been given, but still addresses him formally

I really love how smoothly Fourth Uncle rolls with that. It speaks well of his smarts, and the fact that he's even willing to mislead his own niece shows his respect for the Envoy, I think. And I feel like Shen Wei making Fourth Uncle complicit in hiding his identity is a ZYL-level psychological ploy for starting to get him on side, like that sales principle of getting a potential customer to say "yes" to something, even if it's something really small.

He switches between addressing Fourth Uncle with informal 你 and formal 您

Oh, that's cool! Thanks so much for that clarification. <3

She's also using formal 您 here!

Are they using formal when they're referring to him as the tribe elder, and informal when they're referring to him as a person? Or is it less consistent than that?

Meanwhile Shen Wei stands there listening without much of an expression, doing his best Envoy impression without the cloak-and-mask. It's quite a thing for this internal Yashou argument to be happening in front of the Envoy - and for Ying Chun to be willing to confront another Yashou not in private, but in front of an outsider like this.

It really is! This suggests to me that Shen Wei enlisted her specifically and told her of the urgency of the plan. (I was going to suggest this, even before I saw it in your analysis! *g*) This really is the moment when the Flower and Snake tribes have to pick a side, and I think Ying Chun is very determined for the Snake tribe, as well as the Flowers, to fall the right way.

Fourth Uncle looks at Zhu Hong, then at Ying Chun, who looks back expectantly. Shen Wei also looks at him, likewise willing him to agree.

Ahhh, those screencaps! How could he possibly refuse when faced with that array of charm, conviction, and diplomatic pressure?? *g*

Does [Shen Wei] know all this from having met Fourth Uncle, or from Zhu Hong, or from other SID members who've met the Snake Tribe?

Or maybe from Ying Chun? Depends how willing she is to gossip about internal Yashou dynamics, I guess, but she seems very willing to intervene in stopping Ya Qing, so she might well have filled Shen Wei in on the third Yashou elder, don't you think?

Also, Zhu Jiu's hostage note was addressed not to the SID, not to Chief Zhao, but to Chief Zhao and Professor Shen together. And for some reason, Shen Wei was the one who volunteers to go talk to the Snake Tribe leader.

Yes, good point, and even before that, in response to the hostage video, it's Shen Wei who makes the plan -- seriously, capably, not at all the soft Professor Shen. After the video, Zhao Yunlan doesn't say anything. Da Qing says, "What should we do?" And it's Shen Wei who answers, "The Hallows can't end up in their hands, but we have to rescue Xiao Guo and Lao Chu. The only way is to arrest Zhu Jiu and ask for the location."

I also wonder how much the hypnotism incident during the Hanga arc subconsciously changed Zhu Hong's view of him, as someone powerful and, hm, measured? Authoritative?

What, exactly, did Shen Wei tell her in advance, to let them cooperate so smoothly?

Okay, my headcanon which I just made up because of this post is that Shen Wei told her about confronting and recruiting Cong Bo, and how Shen Wei and Zhao Yunlan took a kind of good cop/stern cop approach there. And he suggests they do the same here, with Zhu Hong as the good cop, using her familial connection and charm while Shen Wei applies mostly silent pressure (nominally on behalf of the SID and Haixing authorities? but actually on behalf of the SID and Dixing?). And they adapt the approach to include Ying Chun, as well.

So I think despite the urgency of the situation, part of what she's enjoying about it is playing the Zhao Yunlan role, and knowing how that goes. The whole endeavour makes her feel capable and trusted to get the job done.

And how did she get close enough to step in without anyone noticing her before it was time?

The magic of television! *g* Or, maybe Shen Wei asked her to wait a minute on the periphery, maybe talking to another sentry, so she could make an effective entrance, and he skillfully timed it just right (possibly with the aid of super-sensitive dark energy hearing).

But as to what Zhu Hong thinks about Shen Wei taking the lead on what is essentially a diplomatic mission, I have no idea what she thinks of it. Zhao Yunlan did have a bleeding nose, so maybe she thought he had to stay back and rest. Maybe Shen Wei even said as much?

I have another fic that's partly about Shen Wei and Zhu Hong, The Martial Serpent. And I was going to link to galaxysoup's In Vino Veritas, but nnozomi got there first. *g*

[china_shop]

I wonder if part of her willingness to talk with Shen Wei and work with him is based on her essential trust of Zhao Yunlan's judgment

Oh, yes, I like that. And absolutely agreed about how wonderful it is to see them working together! :D

I can only think of one Shen Wei & Zhu Hong fic

Ha, I had that open in a tab to link to, too. Snap! <3

[china_shop]

I don't buy it for a second; he's just trying to make her feel better (and failing, probably).

I wonder if he's partly trying to make himself feel better, too. He doesn't want her to get hurt, he doesn't want them to be competing for Zhao Yunlan. Maybe he's hoping Zhu Hong's feelings are just a passing crush (she must seem so young to him!) and taking refuge in science to reassure himself? (But yeah, there's definitely a little hypocrisy there. Imagine if she'd tried that line on him!)

[china_shop]

but also he doesn't want to rebuff her, so he tries to be as kind as possible while also being as clinical about it as possible. And I think even if it doesn't make her feel better, it does help that he's being kind about it.

Yes, agreed!

[trobadora]

♥ ♥ ♥

I really love how smoothly Fourth Uncle rolls with that. It speaks well of his smarts, and the fact that he's even willing to mislead his own niece shows his respect for the Envoy, I think. And I feel like Shen Wei making Fourth Uncle complicit in hiding his identity is a ZYL-level psychological ploy for starting to get him on side, like that sales principle of getting a potential customer to say "yes" to something, even if it's something really small.

Oooh, yes, that is an excellent observation! Right from the start it makes it the two of them together on the same team ...

Are they using formal when they're referring to him as the tribe elder, and informal when they're referring to him as a person?

Yeah, that seems to be mostly it!

This suggests to me that Shen Wei enlisted her specifically and told her of the urgency of the plan. (I was going to suggest this, even before I saw it in your analysis! *g*) This really is the moment when the Flower and Snake tribes have to pick a side, and I think Ying Chun is very determined for the Snake tribe, as well as the Flowers, to fall the right way.

Yes, agreed! I hadn't really thought about it much before I looked at this scene more closely, but if Ying Chun had any reservations, if she still thought of it as Yashou vs. Dixingren vs. Haixingren, she definitely wouldn't be arguing with Fourth Uncle in front of the Envoy. I wonder how much she and Shen Wei have been in touch behind the scenes ...

How could he possibly refuse when faced with that array of charm, conviction, and diplomatic pressure?? *g*

Right? They're really ganging up on him. :D

Depends how willing she is to gossip about internal Yashou dynamics, I guess, but she seems very willing to intervene in stopping Ya Qing, so she might well have filled Shen Wei in on the third Yashou elder, don't you think?

Yes, that's very possible! If they talked about what to do about Ya Qing, the third tribe's stance would definitely be relevant.

Yes, good point, and even before that, in response to the hostage video, it's Shen Wei who makes the plan -- seriously, capably, not at all the soft Professor Shen.

Idk if I'd describe Professor Shen as soft, especially not from Zhu Hong's POV considering her early experience with him in the interrogation room, but otherwise, yes! It's got to be really weird to everyone else. :D

I also wonder how much the hypnotism incident during the Hanga arc subconsciously changed Zhu Hong's view of him, as someone powerful and, hm, measured? Authoritative?

Could be! Tbh I was never sure how much of the hypnotism incident she consciously remembered, since she didn't say anything despite how suspicious it was. If she'd had reason to think Shen Wei might be a threat, surely she wouldn't hide it.

Okay, my headcanon which I just made up because of this post

Hee! :D

Shen Wei told her about confronting and recruiting Cong Bo, and how Shen Wei and Zhao Yunlan took a kind of good cop/stern cop approach there. And he suggests they do the same here, with Zhu Hong as the good cop, using her familial connection and charm while Shen Wei applies mostly silent pressure (nominally on behalf of the SID and Haixing authorities? but actually on behalf of the SID and Dixing?). And they adapt the approach to include Ying Chun, as well.

Ooooh, that is lovely, and I agree that Zhu Hong would definitely love playing the Zhao Yunlan role!

The whole endeavour makes her feel capable and trusted to get the job done.

Yes! :D

But as to what Zhu Hong thinks about Shen Wei taking the lead on what is essentially a diplomatic mission, I have no idea what she thinks of it. Zhao Yunlan did have a bleeding nose, so maybe she thought he had to stay back and rest. Maybe Shen Wei even said as much?

Yeah, I don't have a well-formed headcanon for this either. I can totally see Shen Wei saying Zhao Yunlan needs to rest, though!

I have another fic that's partly about Shen Wei and Zhu Hong, The Martial Serpent.

Oh, yes, that's another great one! ♥

[lunarriviera]

(she must seem so young to him!)

And truly she is young by comparison—I love this Shen Wei who doesn't want her to be hurt, and is hoping she'll recover soon, almost a parental kind of wishful thinking, because she is indeed a baby. A baby in black leather and stilettos, maybe, but a relative infant nonetheless.

(And I love her line at the end of the series, when she reminds the assembled Yashou that after all she is the one who had a crush on the Lord Guardian! it having become a point of pride rather than shame).

[china_shop]

And truly she is young by comparison

Yes! Even Zhao Yunlan thinks she's young, heh.

I love this Shen Wei who doesn't want her to be hurt, and is hoping she'll recover soon

He's very thoughtful of people. It's one of the things I love about him.

(And I love her line at the end of the series, when she reminds the assembled Yashou that after all she is the one who had a crush on the Lord Guardian! it having become a point of pride rather than shame).

Yes, that's such a great emotional place for her to end up! I think she says she was the Black-Cloaked Envoy's rival, too! :D

[china_shop]

I wonder how much she and Shen Wei have been in touch behind the scenes ...

I'm trying to imagine them going out for tea, but I can't see Ying Chun in a Haixing tea shop. *g* Maybe Shen Wei brings a thermos and they talk on campus, or he invites her into his office for a tete-a-tete? A tea date as cover for a political strategy session? (I feel like Ying Chun is probably fully on board from ep 13(?) when she tells Shen Wei she'll run interference while he tries to find ZYL, though... she's definitely committed to trying to stop Ya Qing's involvement, but she may not be willing to take sides in the matter of Ye Zun vs Everyone Else yet, at that stage? Not sure.)

If they talked about what to do about Ya Qing, the third tribe's stance would definitely be relevant.

Yes! Especially since the Snake tribe seems to have almost as many young people of fighting age as the Crows.

Idk if I'd describe Professor Shen as soft, especially not from Zhu Hong's POV considering her early experience with him in the interrogation room

That's true. He hasn't really hidden his cool composure from the SID. And he is suspicious in so many ways.

Tbh I was never sure how much of the hypnotism incident she consciously remembered, since she didn't say anything despite how suspicious it was. If she'd had reason to think Shen Wei might be a threat, surely she wouldn't hide it.

I don't think he was threatening during the incident though? Advising her not to use her hypnotism again if she didn't have to came from a place of concern, and she was influenced enough to take that advice, so maybe some sense of "Shen Wei is authoritative/capable/trustworthy" lingered too? Not consciously, but maybe a feeling?

[trobadora]

I'm trying to imagine them going out for tea, but I can't see Ying Chun in a Haixing tea shop. *g*

Yeah, agreed! And I can't really see her in his office either, not outside of an emergency. So they might talk outside, somewhere on campus, yeah, or meet up somewhere else in a park.

I agree she's on board since that time she agrees to go after Ya Qing, but at that point from her perspective it's probably still be more about preventing an all-out fight? Idk where exactly the point is when she decides they really need to actively do something beyond trying to talk sense into the Crows, but she's clearly there now.

I don't think he was threatening during the incident though? Advising her not to use her hypnotism again if she didn't have to came from a place of concern, and she was influenced enough to take that advice, so maybe some sense of "Shen Wei is authoritative/capable/trustworthy" lingered too? Not consciously, but maybe a feeling?

He didn't just give her advice, though. He hypnotised her, made her fall asleep and forget about him until ZYL's return. I think if she remembered that, it would have felt very threatening at that time.

Yeah, his advice does linger - and agreed, I could see that extending to a sense of Shen Wei being someone worth listenting to as well. It makes sense to me that it would, subconsciously.

[china_shop]

So they might talk outside, somewhere on campus, yeah, or meet up somewhere else in a park.

This is making me wonder if she has other friends (other than Ya Qing). Do plants even want friends? Do they have families and relatives?

Idk where exactly the point is when she decides they really need to actively do something beyond trying to talk sense into the Crows, but she's clearly there now.

I'm not sure? There's an isolationist stance that says, "All Yashou should stay out of it, and I'll do what I have to to stop Ya Qing being involved in harming anyone else." And there's a non-isolationist stance of actually taking a side and fighting for it. I'm not sure where she is, at this stage, because detaining Ya Qing fits with both of those. (I may need to go back and re-read the Ying Chun character post.)

He didn't just give her advice, though. He hypnotised her, made her fall asleep and forget about him until ZYL's return. I think if she remembered that, it would have felt very threatening at that time.

True... though she was trying to hypnotise him in exactly the same way. And her tribe seems quite happy to drug each other at the drop of a hat, so maybe that's within her... not comfort zone, exactly, but normal mode of interacting? The fact that it's Shen Wei is clearly an issue, but he doesn't hurt her at all.

[trobadora]

Idk about plants having friends, but I always assumed Yashou procreated in their human form. Not that that is necessarily the case, which could get pretty interesting with the Flower Tribe! :D

There's an isolationist stance that says, "All Yashou should stay out of it, and I'll do what I have to to stop Ya Qing being involved in harming anyone else." And there's a non-isolationist stance of actually taking a side and fighting for it. I'm not sure where she is, at this stage, because detaining Ya Qing fits with both of those.

That's a good point! But once they're actively interfering with Ya Qing's alliance with Ye Zun, they've put themselves into the conflict one way or another, and I think Ying Chun is very aware of that. Idk if she'd be willing to physically fight yet, but she's definitely taking a risk.

And her tribe seems quite happy to drug each other at the drop of a hat, so maybe that's within her... not comfort zone, exactly, but normal mode of interacting?

Haha, I love that way of looking at it! :D

[china_shop]

But once they're actively interfering with Ya Qing's alliance with Ye Zun, they've put themselves into the conflict one way or another, and I think Ying Chun is very aware of that. Idk if she'd be willing to physically fight yet, but she's definitely taking a risk.

Yeah, definitely a risk, but it does give her a position to argue neutrality from. If Ye Zun were a reasonable person (ha), and she convinced Ya Qing to quit his alliance, there's the possibility of retreat -- further into the woods/mountains or whatever.

I feel like her determination to intervene shows how much she believes in Ya Qing, believes that this is a wrong move Ya Qing is taking out of frustration, rather than where she was always inevitably heading. (I'm definitely projecting a lot there! And Ying Chun could be deluded or wrong about her childhood friend. But you know?)

[trobadora]

If Ye Zun were a reasonable person (ha)

Yeah, that's a pretty big "if"! I don't think anyone expects that at this point in time. *g*

I totally agree with everything oy say about her faith in Ya Qing and Ya Qing's general character and intentions! I just think that she's gone beyond "extricate Ya Qing, go back to isolating ourselves" here. I think at this point she's at least willing to consider interfering beyond this, becuase she knows the people Ya Qing has allied with won't stop, even if Ya Qing herself stopped, and she's seen that fighting them hasn't been easy for the Envoy and the SID. Though I'm sure she's hoping they'll manage to defeat Ye Zun without the Yashou having to do more, I don't think she's counting on it.

[china_shop]

Yeah, that's a pretty big "if"! I don't think anyone expects that at this point in time. *g*

This made me go, do any of them know about Ye Zun at this point? The SID knows there's someone behind Zhu Jiu, and Shen Wei must have an inkling/foreboding suspicion who it is, but maybe, as far as Ying Chun is aware, it might start and end with Zhu Jiu? Maybe she's hoping the SID capturing Zhu Jiu will put a stop to the mischief and give her a chance to convince Ya Qing to try another way?

(Or you might be completely right, and she's ready to fight at this stage. Do we get much indication of her arc? There's the bit where she talks to Shen Wei about the Flower Tribe's isolationism and maybe leaving town to avoid the coming conflict, and then she helps him in the fight with Zhu Jiu -- oh, maybe that's her turning point? that early on?)

[trobadora]

I don't think she knows about Ye Zun, but I do think she probably knows there's someone behind Zhu Jiu. That's just a feeling, though, you're right - as far as I can remember there's nothing definite in canon either way.

I think that first interference in Shen Wei's fight with Zhu Jiu is definitely a turning point for her, but I feel like it's more of a start than her already being there all the way? I feel like at least the first time we see her talking to Ya Qing she's still hoping there's an easy solution.

[china_shop]

I don't think she knows about Ye Zun, but I do think she probably knows there's someone behind Zhu Jiu.

*nodnod* And it's someone who was prepared to put Zhu Jiu in charge of things, so any expectation of reasonableness ends there, I guess. ;-p

I think that first interference in Shen Wei's fight with Zhu Jiu is definitely a turning point for her, but I feel like it's more of a start than her already being there all the way?

*nodnod* That makes sense. She's more willing than the other Yashou leaders to blur the edges of isolationism. I wonder if that's because Shen Wei approached her first, respectfully, to ask for info.

[trobadora]

Haha, too true about putting Zhu Jiu in charge!

I wonder if that's because Shen Wei approached her first, respectfully, to ask for info.

I'm sure that must have helped! And maybe also the fact that the fight was happening right in front of her. Much easier to keep out of something that's happening elsewhere ...

[satsuma]

And I feel like Shen Wei making Fourth Uncle complicit in hiding his identity is a ZYL-level psychological ploy for starting to get him on side, like that sales principle of getting a potential customer to say "yes" to something, even if it's something really small.

Oooh yeah I can definitely see that! A v clever tactic if he's doing it intentionally, for sure

[china_shop]

It might be more intuitive than Zhao Yunlan's calculated approach, but I suspect a certain amount of "treat him like an ally to convince him to be one" makes sense here? :-)

[awanderingcoyote]

What a lovely write-up about this particular scene!! :D

I always liked the byplay between Zhu Hong and Shen Wei in this scene when confronting Fourth Uncle. They may not always see eye to eye (when it concerns Zhao Yunlan and their respective feelings for him) but they both see eye to eye in making sure they needed to do what needs to be done, to try and make things better.

Here we have a scene - the only time in the drama that I can remember - where Shen Wei and Zhu Hong work together separately from everyone else. And they make an excellent team! - I agree they make an excellent team. I enjoyed the silent communicative looks the two had between each other as they tried to get Fourth Uncle to do what needed to be done! :D

So what does Zhu Hong think is happening? Who does she think he is? What does she think is the reason for his role in all of this? Does she draw any conclusions? - This is such an interesting question and one I hadn't really considered until you mentioned it! I think I always put her thoughts of Shen Wei into the 'rivalry' category and never really dug beneath the surface of that, but watching the scene again there's definitely some kind of trust there that she has for Shen Wei, otherwise, I don't think she'd have gone through with the plan. So, while, she may not yet know he's HPS, I think she knows there's something more to him than just Professor Shen Wei rivalry to ZYL's affection. I also don't see her trusting him just because Zhao Yunlan does either. She always struck me as the type not to believe in something/someone until they satisfied her standards. Hm, I think I rambled away from the question, sorry! XD

She could easily resent him for that, but she doesn't seem to, and she seems delighted to execute this plan together with him, to play a crucial part in it. - I always read this as her understanding of how best to get her Uncle to acquiesce to what they need from him. Going head on at him as just his 'niece' would only get him to be like: Oh you younglings today (or something along those lines!) and he could ignore her and absolve himself of having to put himself and the Snake Tribe in the line of fire, but when you bring Shen Wei in it and then have her come in to back him up it becomes harder for Fourth Uncle to say no. Especially, since Zhu Hong definitely knows how to bring in the emotional guns XD

I love the way they look at each other, twice during this scene - once when it's time for Zhu Hong to work on her uncle, and once after they've won. I love everything about the teamwork between them; I wish we could have had more of that. They're such a fascinating duo. - Same same! I love their silent communication in this scene :D

This was an awesome write-up and I really enjoyed reading it and seeing the lovely screencaps as well :D Thank you for writing and sharing it!!

[trobadora]

Thank you! ♥

They may not always see eye to eye (when it concerns Zhao Yunlan and their respective feelings for him) but they both see eye to eye in making sure they needed to do what needs to be done, to try and make things better.

Yes, that's a great way of putting it!

but watching the scene again there's definitely some kind of trust there that she has for Shen Wei, otherwise, I don't think she'd have gone through with the plan

Yes, agreed! And also on Zhu Hong not being the type to believe in someone without good reason. She must know there's more to him by now, but I'd really love to know what's going on in her head during all of this.

Going head on at him as just his 'niece' would only get him to be like: Oh you younglings today (or something along those lines!) and he could ignore her and absolve himself of having to put himself and the Snake Tribe in the line of fire, but when you bring Shen Wei in it and then have her come in to back him up it becomes harder for Fourth Uncle to say no.

Very good point! Yeah, I think she must have known she couldn't do it on her own, and she did agree that it needed doing, so ... :)

[awanderingcoyote]

Yes, agreed! And also on Zhu Hong not being the type to believe in someone without good reason. She must know there's more to him by now, but I'd really love to know what's going on in her head during all of this. - I agree it would be interesting to know what's going on in her head!