elenothar: (Default)
elenothar ([personal profile] elenothar) wrote in [community profile] sid_guardian2022-02-26 12:08 pm

Discussion Post - Dark Energy

Welcome to a whole post of me blathering about dark energy and definitely not at all outsourcing my many questions on the subject to everyone here. Definitely.

Caps by [personal profile] tinny and [personal profile] kernezelda, gifs very graciously supplied by [personal profile] presumenothing. This post ended up very visual-heavy, partly because I like the way dark energy looks in the show, partly because I talk about colours a lot, and partly because Shen Wei’s hands are Very Distracting.



Dark Energy and Colour

Every character seems to have their own dark energy colour, for reasons that are not entirely clear to me (beyond making it easier to tell people apart) but are fun to speculate on.

Linguistic side-jump: the subs say the original mandarin for ‘dark energy’ is 黑能量 (hēi néngliàng), which translates literally to ‘black energy’ (‘energy’ in the physics or capabilities sense, according to Pleco) – pretty close English translation, I’d say. Which is relevant because dark energy isn’t actually all that dark/black in many instances.

I keep thinking Shen Wei’s dark energy as the prototype dark energy, partly because it’s the one we see by far the most of and partly because in a chronological sense, it sort of is. It looks like this, black flecked with bits of purple and blue, for the most part, but there is variation across scenes/episodes:

Shen Wei's hand with dark energy ball

Shen Wei's hand with dark energy ball 2

Shen Wei's hand with dark energy ball 3


Interestingly, when channelled through an object, like his glaive, there seems to be more white in it:

Heipaoshi's glaive


Ye Zun’s colours, predictably, look quite similar:

Ye Zun as Shen Wei with dark energy

Ye Zun vs Zhao Yunlan with the sundial


Like Shen Wei, his energy channelled through an object (in this case, the very dramatic walking stick) also looks whiter:

Ye Zun's cane


And the colour going through Shen Wei’s chains on the pillar is also different:

Shen Wei chained to the pillar


Zhu Jiu's dark energy looks similar to the twins':

Zhu Jiu throwing people around


That’s about where the ‘blackness’ of dark energy ends, though, because we are then introduced to several Dixingren characters whose dark energy looks quite different (I did not go through the entire series to catalogue everyone’s colours, mainly for time reasons, but if someone spotted others do shout in the comments).

Zhang Danni stands out the most, with bright green:

Zhang Danni's dark energy


But even Chu Shuzhi, whose power we see more often than most, has relatively bright blue energy:

Chu Shuzhi with his strings


Sha Ya is pretty electric too:

Sha Ya's hand with dark energy ball


Wu Xiaojun, on the other hand, has almost white energy, which is interesting given the contrast between dark energy and whatever light energy Haixingren have:

Wu Xiaojun using dark energy


And then there are the Yashou. As I understand it, their abilities are also based on dark energy, yet the tribes have very distinctive colour schemes. The Crow Tribe's energy looks pretty much just black, the Flower Tribe and Cat Tribe's are golden and Snake Tribe is red:

Ya Qing transforming

Flower Tribe transformation

Da Ji's hand with energy claw

Zhu Hong with red energy


Last point – the Hallows. Three out of four have a similar golden colour to the Flower Tribe transformation sequences:

Glowing awl and sundial

Glowing guardian lamp


Yet the Merit Brush's colour scheme is much more like the dark energy we see Dixingren wield. During the rooftop confrontation it seems to take on something like Sha Ya's energy colour, and then the night sky, when affected by it, looks like this:

the sky affected by the merit brush


The golden colour always confused me a little, because it’s explicitly stated by Shen Wei that he worries about the usage of the Hallows harming Zhao Yunlan because of their dark energy. And indeed, the Merit Brush looks more like ‘prototype’ dark energy. So why are the Sundial and the Awl so golden? Do they draw on something other than dark energy? And is there a connection between the Flower Tribe and Cat Tribe gold and the Hallows gold?

So what do the different colours mean, if anything? In Doylist terms, I think it’s pretty likely that the intent was to a) make it easier to tell people and their powers apart, and b) make things look pretty (both commendable objectives). But we love to speculate about possible in-universe worldbuilding reasons in this joint, so here are some of the options I came up with:

  • the colour depends on the kind of power; this one is hard to verify, since we don’t have duplicate powers. Shen Wei and Ye Zun have similar powers and similar colours, but they’re also related – familial relation is another possibility. Mostly what I’m drawing on is Sha Ya and here electricity power that’s more or less the colour electricity is usually depicted as, and Zhang Danni’s poisonous fog (if that is her power, I’m not actually entirely sure about this) being green, a very nature-y and poison-y colour

  • almost a sub-point to the above: the colour depends on the mechanics of the power/the kind of channelling used, or access to dark energy a Dixingren has; this would depend largely on how dark energy is actually used in the specifics (on which, I believe, we have no canon evidence either). Is it all internal reservoirs that are tapped? Is there a degree of taking energy from surroundings? Are the mechanics different for Chu Shuzhi shooting strings vs Shen Wei conjuring a portal?

  • random lottery, much like which power a Dixingren gets in the first place

  • reflection of soul/character; it’s a nifty idea, but in terms of canon I don’t think there’s much there to support it


Shen Wei’s Power

I’ve already written an entire fic about my take on Shen Wei’s learning powers, but never let it be said I’m not ready to talk about Shen Wei at the drop of a hat, so let’s have a recap of that.

We know that Shen Wei’s power is ‘learning’. As far as I can recall, we never get a more specific explanation than what Shen Wei says to Zhao Yunlan in episode 15:

Zhao Yunlan: “It's like you're omnipotent.”

Shen Wei: “I also have just one power. Learning. I can make any power I see my own. In principle, my material is endless. But I am constrained by the Guardian Writ and by dark energy itself, so I can show only limited power here.”

Now, that still leaves a pretty broad range of interpretations – does the knack for learning only extend to dark energy powers? Is it enough for Shen Wei to be around someone using their power to pick it up, or does he have to do something more specific (and is there a length of exposure factor)? If he glimpses a power, has he immediately learned it? Or is it a conscious choice to learn a power? How does he keep track of it all?

Personally, I tend to think that his learning power specifically extends to learning other Dixingren’s dark energy powers, but that he’s got an affinity for learning in general, which makes him such a good academic and adaptable enough to find his way in terrible circumstances in YOHE and then after the dirtnap in modern and unfamiliar Haixing.

This post is already getting too long, so I’m not going to go through the powers we see Shen Wei use in detail ( ☹ ), but I did want to highlight one I think is particularly interesting in terms of dark energy: the Shen Wei Sonar ™

Shen Wei sonar 1

Shen Wei sonar 2


I just find the idea that he can ‘look’ or sense with dark energy fascinating. Presumably it makes him sensitive to dark energy use (and might explain how he’s so good at figuring out where the trouble is – he’s a single person keeping watch over Dragon City, after all). I’ve always wondered whether the way the surroundings go dark when he does it is a representation of the energies floating around the surroundings, or whether it’s a visualisation of his own energy flowing outwards.

One question I’ve always had re: dark energy is to what extent Dixingren can use it beyond their specific powers. Zhu Jiu can throw people around and throw up a shield against Zheng Yi’s mind control, for example; we see dark energy used to repel or push and possibly augment strength in ways that don’t seem to correspond to anyone’s power. Shen Wei himself frequently uses dark energy in pretty unspecific ways (throwing balls of it at Zhu Jiu, calming the people at the wedding, using it as a diagnostic tool on people who are ailing etc). It seems to suggest to me that to some extent dark energy is just accessible to Dixingren to do basic things with, yet we don’t seem everyone doing so. Perhaps it’s related to power levels or needing a knack for it.

Some further questions:

  • What does it mean that Dixing has more dark energy than Haixing? Is it just… floating about in the atmosphere? Imbued in the ground? Something else?

  • Can objects be imbued with dark energy? We see a few examples of something I’d call channelling dark energy (Heipaoshi’s glaive, Ye Zun’s cane, Chu Shuzhi’s puppet), but some examples are more ambiguous (the pillar & chains on the pillar, the Hallows, the dark energy gun)

  • How do you think Shen Wei’s power works?

  • A learning power seems like the jackpot of dark energy powers – do you think there are any drawbacks to having such a power?


  • Please all feel free to share any dark energy theories or headcanons you have!
china_shop: Chu Shuzhi wielding his magic blue strings. (Guardian - CSZ strings)

[personal profile] china_shop 2022-02-26 11:07 pm (UTC)(link)
This is such a great post! *standing ovation* I'll come back later with more thoughts, but here are the things at the top of my mind right now.

I’ve always wondered whether the way the surroundings go dark when he does it is a representation of the energies floating around the surroundings, or whether it’s a visualisation of his own energy flowing outwards.

I tend to read it as a visual depiction of what's happening in his head, rather than an objective outward effect. He's using "dark energy vision" rather than regular sight, and that's how they show it. (Do we ever see him use it successfully? I remember him patrolling the streets with it and using it at the DoS before his meeting with Minister Gao, but I don't know if there's an obvious instance of him detecting other energy use with it?)

Acquired dark energy headcanons
1. Throwing bolts of dark energy (and being unusually strong) is independent of the Dixingren's specific power, and anyone with sufficient "strength" can do it.
2. Zhu Jiu has a variety of powers and a lot of strength courtesy of Ye Zun, who is feeding/piggybacking on him somehow?

Questions (sorry, I know I'm supposed to try to answer questions, but I just have more/other ones)
1. How does the Guardian Token limit Shen Wei's power in Haixing? Is that just an agreement he has to abide by, or is it a physical restraint?
2. Shen Wei says in the Hanga Arc that he can't use his full powers, and also "But when I got close here, my energy was blocked to some extent" (ep 10, 27:08). What kinds of things can block his powers?
3. During the Merit Brush arc, the dark energy in Dragon City changes, so Shen Wei can't read it as well and Lin Jing's detector stops working. ???
4. Zhao Yunlan lost his eyesight due to dark energy corruption, so how does exchanging energy with Shen Wei help? Do the Hallows act as a filter, removing the harmful aspects? Does the exchange alter the balance of energies in Zhao Yunlan, allowing him to accommodate dark energy more safely? (Is Zhao Yunlan also a potential bomb?!)

Links
Fic: hold a candle by [personal profile] shadaras -- ep 20, a really interesting, quite concrete depiction of Shen Wei's healing power
Fic: Prince of Thorns by [personal profile] sylvia -- includes Shen Wei's energy having a mind of its own and just wanting to be near ZYL; super cute!
Meta: Shen Wei and his powers by [personal profile] laireshi -- lots of gifs :-)
Edited 2022-02-26 23:09 (UTC)
china_shop: Close-up of Zhao Yunlan grinning (Default)

[personal profile] china_shop 2022-03-06 01:49 am (UTC)(link)
I was having some 'first time posting in this comm wobbles' 😅

Aw, I know that feeling! *retrospective hugs* (It's so good, though!) <3

I think the use in ep 4 is successful? In that he manages to pinpoint Zhu Jiu

Oh, yes, excellent point. Thanks!

Though it does beg the question why Dixingren don't use dark energy more than they do in the show...

Given the destructive potential of some of the powers, and the fact that not all Dixingren have powers, maybe it's culturally forbidden to use dangerous powers except in extremis? Even if they have ill-intent, that might still hold them back to start with?

The Guardian Token:
The way he talks about it in the Hanga arc, I got the impression that it's physical (there's also the whole 'how long can you keep your full form in Haixing' thing), but how that could possible actually be *done* I really don't know, and we only see it affecting him very selectively...

Belatedly it occurred to me that it might be a metaphysical effect like the red stamp that allows SID members to pass through the security barrier, or the letter Shen Wei sends Zhao Yunlan that (not-quite-sure-this-is-canon) allows ZYL to pass through the portal to Dixing...

I though the implication here was that it was the Hallow inhibiting his powers somehow, which at least jives with the Hallows being both very powerful and quite undefined in what they actually do.

I guess it makes sense for a Hallow that imprisons people to also have a power-dampening effect!

Re the dark energy changing in Dragon City, I thought it was a quality of the energy that had changed. Maybe the Hallows affect the spike proteins sane quality of the energy that Lin Jing's detector and Shen Wei's dark-energy vision is calibrated for?

I always thought it was less of an exchange and more of an Shen Wei drawing the dark energy out of Zhao Yunlan into himself, but getting some of Zhao Yunlan's light energy in the bargain, which is what harms him. Plenty of scope for interpretation here too though.

Definitely! I don't have firm headcanon either way, but I'm pretty sure it's implied Zhao Yunlan is affected as well as cured by the process. He has that dark energy flare when he's kidnapped, for example.

Thanks for the fic link! :-)
china_shop: A mostly black & white silhouette of the Envoy entering a portal (Guardian - portal)

[personal profile] china_shop 2022-03-27 04:34 am (UTC)(link)
Coming back to this weeks later, hi!

given how old Dixing is, there must be some actual governance of powers somewhere that doesn't just amount to 'the people with the most power/most useful powers get to be on top'. I hope.

Yeah, it's hard to see how a place like the bar could stay in business if people weren't generally law-abiding and exhibiting some self-control. It would only take one person with a fire power to raze it to the ground if they got in an argument. (I tend to think of the bar as a proxy for "regular" Dixing society, and people seemed to be behaving themselves pretty well, there.)

XD That could be potentially quite... creepy for any Dixingren in Dragon City, if you think about it. Something that's always been constant suddenly changing like that.

Oh, good point. That could feel quite disturbing. Maybe even apocalyptic? (Does Shen Wei find it worrying or just perplexing? Maybe it shifts gradually/naturally over time, and he's not sure if this is that or a sign of something else?)
salamandras: Sunflower (Default)

[personal profile] salamandras 2022-02-27 09:22 pm (UTC)(link)
I love your ideas of why their powers are the colors they are! I especially like the idea of type of power and heredity having something to do with the color.

I’ve always wondered whether the way the surroundings go dark when he does it is a representation of the energies floating around the surroundings, or whether it’s a visualisation of his own energy flowing outwards.

I hadn't thought about it specifically before, but now that you bring it up, for me it feels like it's a representation of the energy floating around him, although I can see both being possible.

What does it mean that Dixing has more dark energy than Haixing? Is it just… floating about in the atmosphere? Imbued in the ground? Something else?

I picture it being contained under the surface of Haixing. Maybe it originally comes from the rocks or is imbued in the ground, maybe related to the original spaceship's energy source? But I definitely imagine something keeping dark energy contained to Dixing. I'm shaky on the treaty between Haixing and Dixing - does it keep dark energy from getting into Haixing, or does Shen Wei have to limit his own use of dark energy when in Dixing to keep to the treaty?

It seems to suggest to me that to some extent dark energy is just accessible to Dixingren to do basic things with, yet we don’t seem everyone doing so. Perhaps it’s related to power levels or needing a knack for it.

This works for me - it seems to make power usage abilities more consistent.

A learning power seems like the jackpot of dark energy powers – do you think there are any drawbacks to having such a power?

I feel like there must be a drawback, if for no other reason than it isn't fair to have unlimited powers in any universe. :) I remember one fic about him accidentally learning someone's glowing power and I feel like other people have explored this in fic. Maybe old and unused powers he's learned get pushed out or forgotten? I don't think I've got any ideas of my own on what drawbacks he could experience, though.
salamandras: Sunflower (Default)

[personal profile] salamandras 2022-03-01 10:41 pm (UTC)(link)
Hmm, the reason I'm not so certain about it being entirely contained in Dixing is that Dixingren clearly still have access to it aboveground. Yes, they've got internal dark energy, but there's no implication that once they use that up they need to go to Dixing to 'refuel'. But who really knows...

You are totally right, I didn't describe what I meant well about it being contained, more like ... limited? As in it gets to Haixing, but doesn't 'flow' as freely? I'm probably getting most of my interpretations from authors' descriptions and would do better to quote someone else's words!

Though, in practical in universe terms, it's a bit hard to see how a treaty could keep dark energy away from Haixing.

It does seem difficult or impossible to contain an energy source with just a written treaty.

I have to admit that the fic you're remembering is likely mine XD

Ah! I really enjoyed it, and I'm pretty terrible with comments - I'm glad you wrote it and shared it. :)
presumenothing: (monki)

[personal profile] presumenothing 2022-03-02 12:27 am (UTC)(link)

Though, in practical in universe terms, it's a bit hard to see how a treaty could keep dark energy away from Haixing.

*Shen Wei, running around Haixing, trying to arrest incorporeal wisps of sparkly energy for Trespassing Crimes*

probably when a roomba could come in handy. just hypothetically speaking

china_shop: A close-up of the Envoy's mouth and chin, with just the bottom edge of his mask in frame. (Guardian - Envoy)

[personal profile] china_shop 2022-03-02 01:59 am (UTC)(link)
Though, in practical in universe terms, it's a bit hard to see how a treaty could keep dark energy away from Haixing.

Maybe it's similar to how Lin Jing's security system protects the SID, and the red stamp lets members of the SID pass through? (Cf Changcheng's induction at the start of ep 8.) Maybe, as well as being the contract we see Ye Zun set on fire, the Guardian Token also controls the flow of dark energy, and perhaps involves a stamp or seal that has deliberate pre-determined side-effects?
Edited 2022-03-02 02:00 (UTC)
nnozomi: (Default)

[personal profile] nnozomi 2022-02-28 01:44 pm (UTC)(link)
I really don't have anything useful to say but this is a very neat post (and useful for reference!). I had not put any of this together this way. Especially the Shen Wei Sonar (TM)! Now I really want to know how that works, and/or read a fic or two centered on it, it's such an evocative concept.
nnozomi: (Default)

[personal profile] nnozomi 2022-03-03 09:49 am (UTC)(link)
... Now I'm thinking about a younger Shen Wei, who just acquired this power and doesn't really know how to work with it yet (or maybe doesn't even know exactly what it is), being caught off guard by sudden weird vision ???
oh yes! I want fic about younger Shen Wei anyway--not Kunlun-era, but when he was a college student/grad student and so on. Shen Wei getting used to Haixing life on one hand and to the weird new powers he picks up on the other (especially because that one probably works differently in Haixing and Dixing, where the base-level dark energy quantities are so different?).
awanderingcoyote: (Default)

[personal profile] awanderingcoyote 2022-03-11 10:25 pm (UTC)(link)
What a fabulous write-up!!!

I never realized - until now - that there were so many varied colors for Dixingren's powers. I had noticed it with the Yashou, but for some reason, my brain didn't latch onto the different colors. It makes me think of how psychic powers are often represented within the comic book world. The psychic power is wide-reaching in what a person can do and it's always colored by the person who's wielding it.

This makes me want to translate the dark energy powers into something similar. A combination of the person and their particular gift denoting what color their powers are.

Though you could definitely go with a family sort of lineage. Like Chu Shuzhi and his family, all have bright blue powers because of their family line, though there's potentially some room for some small differences because even people within the same families are different in their own right.

I always loved how SW's power was learning! He just goes around learning everything that he can, then my brain goes for sads and says: Until one day he realizes he's the only one who knows specific power sets because no one else has them.

AHhhh, what a great write-up!!!! Thank you!!