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sid_guardian2021-12-05 12:34 am
trobadora) wrote in sid_guardian2021-12-05 12:34 am
Entry tags:
Focus on: the episode 1 intro narration
Location of scene: episode 1, 2:09 - 4:00
The very first bit of the drama, after the opening credits! It sets the scene, provides basic worldbuilding context for the drama's world, and satisfies censorship, framing the drama explicitly as sci-fi rather than the novel's fantasy from the start.
(It's hard to say at which point this genre switch was decided on, since IIRC when they started working on it the supernatural had not yet been banned. We do know Dixing was named "Dixing" very late in the game, dubbing the name over whatever they used in the original dubbing, and it may have been renamed more than once. Rumour was that it was originally 地府 - Difu, aka Hell - but what's certain is that at this trailer has it as 地界 - Dijie. 地星 "Dixing", with 星 - star, which is a component in all Chinese planet names, is definitely the more sci-fi name. *g*)
At any rate, let's get started!
Haixing, an ancient planet. Tens of thousands of years ago, an alien race came to this planet on a spaceship.
海星，一颗古老的星球。几万年前一群外星异族乘坐天外飞船 来到这个星球上。
Notably, it's "an ancient planet" and not just "a distant planet" - putting our setting at a quasi-mythic remove, a bit like "a long, long time ago in a galaxy far, far away" ... *g* At any rate, whether 几万 is a rhetorical exaggeration or not, this arrival is clearly meant to be a long time before the meteor strike.
And we don't see any continents on this planet, so it's entirely possible Haixing is far more covered by ocean than Earth. *g*
(I'm not sure whether 一群外星异族 is just "a group of aliens" or whether the phrasing implies they're all the same species - 异族 means "different tribe" according to my dictionary; Baidu says it also means "alien races". This will become relevant in a moment. *g*)
Among them, some of the aliens' genes fused with Haixing's plants and animals, and mutated, giving them the same traits as those the plants and animals. They even evolved so far that they could shapeshift at will. We call them Yashou Tribespeople.
其中，一部分外星异族的细胞，与海星的动物，植物，发生了基因序列的融合，重组，使得他们拥有着与动物相同的习性。甚至进化至，能够随意变形的能力。我们称他们为 亚兽族人。
(Note the narrator's "we"! This will also become relevant in a moment. *g*)
First off, this is phrased passively - we don't know whether the ancestors of Yashou chose this gene fusion or whether it unexpectedly happened to them.
Second, the shapeshifting ability is illustrated with familiar faces: a woman who is probably Ya Qing (though she can't be seen very clearly) transforming into a crow; Ying Chun transforming into her half-morphed tree-woman form (not her full winter jasmine form), and finally Da Qing (with his YOHE look) transforming into a cat.
Notably, the Snake Tribe (who we never see transform during the drama) does not appear here either, even though it's one of the three tribes that will be relevant as a group over the course of the story, from Fu You to Zhu Hong.
And another portion of the aliens chose to settle deep underground on the planet. Thus, they are called Dixing people. The climatic conditions there caused a fascinating chemical reaction in them, which prompted those Dixingren's genes to produce equivalent mutations.
而另一部分外星异族，则选择定居在星球的地底深处。地星人因此得名。那里的气候条件与他们产生了奇妙的化学反应，促使了这些地星人的基因 同样产生了变异重组。
This (one portion, another portion) very much makes it sound like the aliens were one group that split in two, one part staying on the surface and another going underground - I promised to come back to this, and here we go: when this subject comes up in episode 34, Da Qing says that when the spaceship came to Haixing, half of its passengers were Dixingren, the other half Yashou, as if they were already separate groups. (He may only mean that half of them were the ancestors of Dixingren, the other half the ancestors of Yashou, but still, I thought I'd point it out.)
Very interestingly, while settling underground is framed as a deliberate choice, the mutation here is definitely described as due to their environment, not something deliberately sought. The narration also makes note that both species developed equivalent powers, which does make you wonder whether that's something that was already latently present in their ancestors.
(Of course we do eventually find out that Haixingren are also capable of having such powers, but for them it takes deliberate intervention with a serum derived from research on Dixing powers.)
Also interesting: the illustration we see here of ancient Dixing being settled doesn't look much different from modern-day lightless Dixing, with the fire aesthetic and all. *g*
Although their appearance was similar to ours, the powers inside them began to awaken, so they could manipulate rainwater, thunder and lightning, break down natural elements and even control people's minds, or all kinds of other abilities.
虽然他们和我们有着相似的容貌，但是他们体内的能量开始觉醒，可以操控雨水雷电，分解自然元素 乃至掌握人心，或是其他形形色色的能力。
It's literally "energy in their bodies" awakening, which works great with the whole concept of black and white energy. *g*
We see far less direct illustrations for Dixing powers here than we do for the Yashou transformation - perhaps because such things are less easily shown in a glance, but at the same time, we see a lot of Dixingren with varied powers over the course of the show. And here, again unlike with the Yashou, we're shown no familiar faces. (There is one person in a black robe, but they are not clearly visible.)
We were once afraid of this phenomenon, but because there were far fewer of them than of us, and everyone lived in different places, they lived in harmony.
我们曾经惧怕过这种现象，但因为他们人数上远沅少于我们，大家也曾分地而居，相安无事。
Here's where I want to bring up the question of POV! This narration starts out sounding as if it's a neutral outside observer, but here it's explicitly "we" and "us", the narrator aligning himself with Haixingren, which sort of colours the whole narration in retrospect.
However, with the impact of a giant meteor, everything changed. This meteor destroyed Haixing's ecosystem; Haixing's underground resources began to be scarce.
然而因为一颗巨型陨石的冲击 这一切统统改变了。这颗陨石摧毁了海星的生态体系，海星哋底深处的资源开始匮乏。
I'm not sure about the connection between the ecosystem being destroyed and specifically underground resources growing scarce. You'd think resources would be scarce everywhere.
One by one, Dixingren escaped to the surface. Some ambitious Dixingren began to invade the lands of Haixingren and Yashou for their natural resources. Finally, war broke out.
地星人纷纷逃上地面。其中一部分心怀野心的地星人 为了抢夺资源 开始向海星人亚兽族人活动的范围侵略。战争终于爆发。
Here we see scenes that bear no resemblance whatsoever to what we'll see later during the flashback episodes: horses, huts with thatched roofs, battle scenes involving bows and arrows and swordfighting. But interestingly, there as here, what we don't see is a war being fought with Dixing powers.
It wasn't until Haixingren drew energy from the meteor and forged four Holy Tools that they finally defeated the Dixingren.
直到海星人通过吸取陨石能量 打造了四件圣器 才最终打败了地星人。
Two things that are remarkable about this: one, this makes it sound like a unilateral effort - strictly Haixingren defeating Dixingren. There is no mention of an alliance, or even of Yashou being involved in any of this (even though we're told their lands were also invaded).
This story of Dixingren being defeated comes up several more times. I remember two instances in particular. First, later in episode 1, when Da Qing explains the situation to Guo Changcheng, he tells him that when the Dixingren were defeated back in the war, Haixingren and Dixingren signed a peace treaty. There's no mention of Yashou at all. And second, in episode 6, when Shen Wei talks to Ying Chun, he also mentions defeated Dixingren being driven out, and even specifically says that the Yashou who came to Haixing along with Dixingren could still live peacefully with Haixingren because they stayed neutral during the war.
None of this fits with the flashback episodes, where we see a very different picture - an alliance of Haixingren, Yashou and Dixingren against rebel Dixingren. On the one hand, this is clearly an inconsistency - Da Qing's memory may be unreliable, but Shen Wei certainly knows what actually happened, and his words don't fit. On the other, not being as they seem, and stories being unreliable, is a major thematic strand in the drama, and in episode 34, Zhao Yunlan does remark on one part of this inconsistency. He says he wasn't aware the Yashou played such an active part. (Da Qing tells him that extremists are undermining peace between the three species, so of course they have to deal with it together!)
(Also, as usual, the Guardian Lantern has no wick here.)
Haixingren, Yashou tribespeople, and Dixingren established a peace agreement between the three parties. From then on, they lived in harmony ... until today.
海星人，亚兽族人，地星人三方缔结和平协议。从此相安无事直到今天。
Love the ominous "until today" at the end. :D
Questions:
So, let's talk about this scene! Tell me any and all of your thoughts, I would love to hear what everyone thinks!
The very first bit of the drama, after the opening credits! It sets the scene, provides basic worldbuilding context for the drama's world, and satisfies censorship, framing the drama explicitly as sci-fi rather than the novel's fantasy from the start.
(It's hard to say at which point this genre switch was decided on, since IIRC when they started working on it the supernatural had not yet been banned. We do know Dixing was named "Dixing" very late in the game, dubbing the name over whatever they used in the original dubbing, and it may have been renamed more than once. Rumour was that it was originally 地府 - Difu, aka Hell - but what's certain is that at this trailer has it as 地界 - Dijie. 地星 "Dixing", with 星 - star, which is a component in all Chinese planet names, is definitely the more sci-fi name. *g*)
At any rate, let's get started!
Haixing, an ancient planet. Tens of thousands of years ago, an alien race came to this planet on a spaceship.
海星，一颗古老的星球。几万年前一群外星异族乘坐天外飞船 来到这个星球上。
Notably, it's "an ancient planet" and not just "a distant planet" - putting our setting at a quasi-mythic remove, a bit like "a long, long time ago in a galaxy far, far away" ... *g* At any rate, whether 几万 is a rhetorical exaggeration or not, this arrival is clearly meant to be a long time before the meteor strike.
And we don't see any continents on this planet, so it's entirely possible Haixing is far more covered by ocean than Earth. *g*
(I'm not sure whether 一群外星异族 is just "a group of aliens" or whether the phrasing implies they're all the same species - 异族 means "different tribe" according to my dictionary; Baidu says it also means "alien races". This will become relevant in a moment. *g*)
Among them, some of the aliens' genes fused with Haixing's plants and animals, and mutated, giving them the same traits as those the plants and animals. They even evolved so far that they could shapeshift at will. We call them Yashou Tribespeople.
其中，一部分外星异族的细胞，与海星的动物，植物，发生了基因序列的融合，重组，使得他们拥有着与动物相同的习性。甚至进化至，能够随意变形的能力。我们称他们为 亚兽族人。
(Note the narrator's "we"! This will also become relevant in a moment. *g*)
First off, this is phrased passively - we don't know whether the ancestors of Yashou chose this gene fusion or whether it unexpectedly happened to them.
Second, the shapeshifting ability is illustrated with familiar faces: a woman who is probably Ya Qing (though she can't be seen very clearly) transforming into a crow; Ying Chun transforming into her half-morphed tree-woman form (not her full winter jasmine form), and finally Da Qing (with his YOHE look) transforming into a cat.
Notably, the Snake Tribe (who we never see transform during the drama) does not appear here either, even though it's one of the three tribes that will be relevant as a group over the course of the story, from Fu You to Zhu Hong.
And another portion of the aliens chose to settle deep underground on the planet. Thus, they are called Dixing people. The climatic conditions there caused a fascinating chemical reaction in them, which prompted those Dixingren's genes to produce equivalent mutations.
而另一部分外星异族，则选择定居在星球的地底深处。地星人因此得名。那里的气候条件与他们产生了奇妙的化学反应，促使了这些地星人的基因 同样产生了变异重组。
This (one portion, another portion) very much makes it sound like the aliens were one group that split in two, one part staying on the surface and another going underground - I promised to come back to this, and here we go: when this subject comes up in episode 34, Da Qing says that when the spaceship came to Haixing, half of its passengers were Dixingren, the other half Yashou, as if they were already separate groups. (He may only mean that half of them were the ancestors of Dixingren, the other half the ancestors of Yashou, but still, I thought I'd point it out.)
Very interestingly, while settling underground is framed as a deliberate choice, the mutation here is definitely described as due to their environment, not something deliberately sought. The narration also makes note that both species developed equivalent powers, which does make you wonder whether that's something that was already latently present in their ancestors.
(Of course we do eventually find out that Haixingren are also capable of having such powers, but for them it takes deliberate intervention with a serum derived from research on Dixing powers.)
Also interesting: the illustration we see here of ancient Dixing being settled doesn't look much different from modern-day lightless Dixing, with the fire aesthetic and all. *g*
Although their appearance was similar to ours, the powers inside them began to awaken, so they could manipulate rainwater, thunder and lightning, break down natural elements and even control people's minds, or all kinds of other abilities.
虽然他们和我们有着相似的容貌，但是他们体内的能量开始觉醒，可以操控雨水雷电，分解自然元素 乃至掌握人心，或是其他形形色色的能力。
It's literally "energy in their bodies" awakening, which works great with the whole concept of black and white energy. *g*
We see far less direct illustrations for Dixing powers here than we do for the Yashou transformation - perhaps because such things are less easily shown in a glance, but at the same time, we see a lot of Dixingren with varied powers over the course of the show. And here, again unlike with the Yashou, we're shown no familiar faces. (There is one person in a black robe, but they are not clearly visible.)
We were once afraid of this phenomenon, but because there were far fewer of them than of us, and everyone lived in different places, they lived in harmony.
我们曾经惧怕过这种现象，但因为他们人数上远沅少于我们，大家也曾分地而居，相安无事。
Here's where I want to bring up the question of POV! This narration starts out sounding as if it's a neutral outside observer, but here it's explicitly "we" and "us", the narrator aligning himself with Haixingren, which sort of colours the whole narration in retrospect.
However, with the impact of a giant meteor, everything changed. This meteor destroyed Haixing's ecosystem; Haixing's underground resources began to be scarce.
然而因为一颗巨型陨石的冲击 这一切统统改变了。这颗陨石摧毁了海星的生态体系，海星哋底深处的资源开始匮乏。
I'm not sure about the connection between the ecosystem being destroyed and specifically underground resources growing scarce. You'd think resources would be scarce everywhere.
One by one, Dixingren escaped to the surface. Some ambitious Dixingren began to invade the lands of Haixingren and Yashou for their natural resources. Finally, war broke out.
地星人纷纷逃上地面。其中一部分心怀野心的地星人 为了抢夺资源 开始向海星人亚兽族人活动的范围侵略。战争终于爆发。
Here we see scenes that bear no resemblance whatsoever to what we'll see later during the flashback episodes: horses, huts with thatched roofs, battle scenes involving bows and arrows and swordfighting. But interestingly, there as here, what we don't see is a war being fought with Dixing powers.
It wasn't until Haixingren drew energy from the meteor and forged four Holy Tools that they finally defeated the Dixingren.
直到海星人通过吸取陨石能量 打造了四件圣器 才最终打败了地星人。
Two things that are remarkable about this: one, this makes it sound like a unilateral effort - strictly Haixingren defeating Dixingren. There is no mention of an alliance, or even of Yashou being involved in any of this (even though we're told their lands were also invaded).
This story of Dixingren being defeated comes up several more times. I remember two instances in particular. First, later in episode 1, when Da Qing explains the situation to Guo Changcheng, he tells him that when the Dixingren were defeated back in the war, Haixingren and Dixingren signed a peace treaty. There's no mention of Yashou at all. And second, in episode 6, when Shen Wei talks to Ying Chun, he also mentions defeated Dixingren being driven out, and even specifically says that the Yashou who came to Haixing along with Dixingren could still live peacefully with Haixingren because they stayed neutral during the war.
None of this fits with the flashback episodes, where we see a very different picture - an alliance of Haixingren, Yashou and Dixingren against rebel Dixingren. On the one hand, this is clearly an inconsistency - Da Qing's memory may be unreliable, but Shen Wei certainly knows what actually happened, and his words don't fit. On the other, not being as they seem, and stories being unreliable, is a major thematic strand in the drama, and in episode 34, Zhao Yunlan does remark on one part of this inconsistency. He says he wasn't aware the Yashou played such an active part. (Da Qing tells him that extremists are undermining peace between the three species, so of course they have to deal with it together!)
(Also, as usual, the Guardian Lantern has no wick here.)
Haixingren, Yashou tribespeople, and Dixingren established a peace agreement between the three parties. From then on, they lived in harmony ... until today.
海星人，亚兽族人，地星人三方缔结和平协议。从此相安无事直到今天。
Love the ominous "until today" at the end. :D
Questions:
- Do you remember what you were thinking the first time you saw this? Did it surprise you, or did you already know about it? And is it just me, or is the narrator speaking very fast? (Why? Could they not spare a few more seconds? :p)
- I have to admit, even though it's censorship-caused I really like what the script did with the sci-fi framing of the drama. I love aliens, and that approach - making Dixingren a different species - opens up some of the themes of the drama which are very important to me. (Everything about refugees and immigration and bigotry, and people being people ...) How do you feel about it?
- What do you think about the ancestors of Dixingren and Yashou? One group or two? Any speculation on why they came to this planet and settled here - or why some of them chose to live underground? (The environment doesn't look all that hospitable!) Or why they were so susceptible to mutation?
- What happened to their spaceship? The visuals suggest it didn't actually land, but instead beamed people down - is it still around somewhere?
- For the war, I wish we'd have seen something more like this in the flashbacks! Something that felt more like there was actual fighting going on. Do you think these fight scenes were what they had planned for originally? (I alwasy wondered if the script for the flashback episodes had to be cut down to bare essentials at the last moment ... they're so condensed!)
- About the inconsistencies about who fought and who won - on the one hand, given that the narrator of this intro explicitly aligns himself with Haixingren, you could take this for the official Haixing narrative. That would account for a lot of discrepancies and also the focus on Haixingren winning! But on the other, Shen Wei definitely knows better, and Fu You is still revered among the Yashou, so you'd think Ying Chun would, too. Is there a way to reconcile this, if only for the purpose of fic? (Help! *g*)
- Conversely, if things had been more like it's suggested here, the flashbacks would have had to be very different. What would Shen Wei's role have been, in a world with no alliance? Any thoughts?
So, let's talk about this scene! Tell me any and all of your thoughts, I would love to hear what everyone thinks!
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And initially I did think that I just got it wrong and the novel Guardian was based on was sci-fi, but soon after I read more and found out it was because of censorship.
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Even though, like you said, it's because of censorship, I'm also fond of the sci-fi framing. It's just really rich, thematically and from a worldbuilding perspective.
And speaking of worldbuilding, all the things about Dixing losing the war don't necessarily read as inconsistencies to me, because:
a) at no point in the flashback does Shen Wei seem like an equal partner in the Alliance,
b) but mostly because we have Shen Wei's Dixing troops and the rebels, but are those all the Dixingren? Which ones are representative of the Dixing people? And I think there are several possible answers to that. The Treaty was signed by one of Shen Wei's people and that's the official Dixing faction. Or maybe, most Dixingren supported the rebels, or even were only opposed to the Alliance, so the end of the war and the signing of the Treaty signified a defeat, and that's what Shen Wei is referencing.
As for the Yashou, Fu You's intention was to retreat from Haixingren, so maybe that's a deliberate alteration in the narrative. In their conversation, both Shen Wei and Ying Chun know better, but they're adhering to the official version of events.
In any case, I like the ambiguity of it all.
Thank you for the write-up!
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Right? I love what they did with it - they really went and ran with it, making the most out of it. Which they did with everything, to be fair! It's pretty impressive. ♥
That's an excellent point about the Dixing side of the alliance not feeling like an equal partner, and who counts as representative of Dixingren. Da Qing's YOHE opinion probably isn't everyone's! So from that side of things, it definitely isn't necessarily inconsistent.
The Yashou side is a bit tougher, but that's an excellent thought that this is the "official version" Shen Wei is referencing, rather than actual historical fact. He knows Fu You was one of the main leaders of the alliance, but Fu You did want to retreat, and Yashou have maintained that distance for apparently 10,000 years. So it probably wouldn't have been very politic to say anything else to Ying Chun. (And also, it's no guarantee that current-day Yashou even know how central Fu You was in the war ...)
Thank you so much for helping me work out how to approach this! The more I think about it, the more I like the ambiguity as well.
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I totally agree - I had to replay it a number of times, and I was thinking, "I'm never going to remember all this!" It would have been better to leech this information into the first few of episodes, so we would have an idea of the characters who represented each group before getting the info-dump.
I mean, I guess it's a bit like the beginning of "Monkey" or "The Water Margins", in the sense of the initial scene-setting, but the situation is far more complicated.
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I really loved the switch to sci-fi, and I co-sign all your thoughts on Dixingians being a different species and the immigration themes that enabled. It was great! I loved it!
I think I've settled on "two (political?) groups of the same species", possibly related to colonization policies. While the underground doesn't seem that hospitable, it's also an enclosed area, similar to the spaceship. So perhaps the idea was geothermal energy + terraforming to live underground
and not violate the Prime Directive when they realized Haixing was already inhabited. I've read some interesting fic where the spaceship was still around, either in orbit/hidden or the ship became Dixing.The flashbacks were shot on location, which is apparently expensive, so ... probably.
I ended up liking the flashback/time travel sequence as is, but based on what we got at the start (Shen Wei's conversations with Ying Chun especially), I had imagined that Shen Wei would be the defeated enemy general, who'd surrendered to Kunlun (perhaps with some extremely homoerotic kneeling) and that part of his unwillingness to advocate for more was that he knew he was in part responsible for the treaty (he fought the war, he lost, he signed it) and that advocation from his part would be treated with extreme hostility. As for how he ended up 10k years in the future, well, I guess I thought he slept? Stasis, as part of his punishment? IDK. I do like my version, though, even if it doesn't match canon.
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That's a good point about the underground environment being enclosed, like a spaceship! It makes a lot of sense, especially if it was a generational ship.
Our ids are a bit opposite (LOL) but I think Shen Wei being the defeated enemy general could have been done in a way that would have appealed to me too - especially if it had heavily leaned into the losing side nevertheless wrangling a treaty that maintained their autonomy and avoided retaliation (the whole "we can arrest them and send them back to Dixing but we're not allowed to do anything else to them" bit from Da Qing's speech on the rooftop). But as you say, happily I do like the flashback sequence as it is, too!
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I think I prefer Dixingren and Yashou having the same ancestors, diverging due to choice where to live (or some other sort of faction-building). I think it makes a little bit more sense re: both of them being so affected by dark energy, and I just plain old like the idea of there being real kinship there, however distant.
Side note - do we know that Fu You is Snake Tribe? For some reason I always thought she was Flower Tribe, but I can't recall it being stated either way. I really need to rewatch those later episodes...
What would Shen Wei's role have been, in a world with no alliance?
I could easily imagine him as a rogue cultivator analogue, roaming around the countryside and occasionally helping out others where he can. I can't imagine him sitting by entirely idly when other people are fighting/getting hurt, and he'd still have been searching for Ye Zun as well.
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Hee! That's really cool! I love this kind of connection. :D
I do wish they'd done more with the worldbuilding, but most stuff I would have especially wanted more of would have required more of a budget. (The spaceship, and Dixing, mostly.)
and I just plain old like the idea of there being real kinship there, however distant.
Yeah, that's a great point! I like that a lot, too.
Side note - do we know that Fu You is Snake Tribe?
When Ya Qing tries to become Yashou High Chief, she says Fu You was a Snake. IIRC that's the only time it's mentioned; it never does come up in the YOHE episodes.
I could easily imagine him as a rogue cultivator analogue, roaming around the countryside and occasionally helping out others where he can.
I like that! Totally agreed that he wouldn't just stand by; he'd try to do what he could no matter what.
Regarding Ye Zun, he thought he was dead, though, didn't he? As far as I can remember we never do learn how he comes to that conclusion (though I always figured he was deliberately misled by the rebel leader), but after a certain point he wouldn't have been searching any more,
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Ah, I'd forgotten that.
Regarding Ye Zun, he thought he was dead, though, didn't he? As far as I can remember we never do learn how he comes to that conclusion (though I always figured he was deliberately misled by the rebel leader), but after a certain point he wouldn't have been searching any more
I suppose so. I always wondered why he was so certain, whether it was a way to protect himself after years of fruitless searching (a little unlikely, given his stubborness), or if a Rebel (wouldn't even have to be the leader) told him so when interrogated. But there'd still have been some years where he was searching, I think, even if he didn't have much hope.
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Yeah, totally agreed! He would have started out searching, and wouldn't have given up easily. Probably not at all until he got seemingly reliable info from somewhere. (I just really like the parallelism of the rebel leader telling Shen Wei that his brother is dead while telling Ye Zun that his brother gave him away ...)
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that approach - making Dixingren a different species - opens up some of the themes of the drama which are very important to me. (Everything about refugees and immigration and bigotry, and people being people ...)
YES YES YES. I still want more fic focusing on all this.
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You and me both! ALLLL the fic, please!
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Do you remember what you were thinking the first time you saw this?
I'd heard that Guardian was modern-day fantasy, so the introduction sequence surprised me but in a good way! I liked the sci-fi aspect of it, which I wasn't expecting, and I love the worldbuilding aspect. It would've been cool to see more of that in the show, especially in the ancient Haixing/YOHE scenes, but it's a great springboard for fic. :D I like the artwork/animation of the introduction, too.
opens up some of the themes of the drama which are very important to me. (Everything about refugees and immigration and bigotry, and people being people ...) How do you feel about it?
For me, this is one of the attractions of Guardian. Those themes layer into the plots and storylines so well. +1 on more fic exploring those themes! :D
What do you think about the ancestors of Dixingren and Yashou? One group or two?
I lean toward it being one group, but there are so many questions about why they settled where they did and how they were affected differently! More fertile ground for fic and speculation.
Great post! The intro sequence hooked me into wanting to watch the show to find out what it was. The characters and stories made me fall in love with the show. ♥
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And I kept meaning to reply to your comment, but time ... /o\
Yeah, the artwork and the whole style of the intro is really nice!
For me, this is one of the attractions of Guardian. Those themes layer into the plots and storylines so well.
Right???? It's one of the things I latched on to immediately. and I just love it SO MUCH.
The intro sequence hooked me into wanting to watch the show to find out what it was. The characters and stories made me fall in love with the show. ♥
Exactly as it should be! :D :D :D
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I actually dislike the change to sci-fi, although I obviously understood why they did it. But I feel like if they were going to do that, they should have actually changed some of the plots? It feels to me like after that intro, we never ever mention another planet or anything like that (please correct me if I'm wrong). Also, urban fantasy is my favourite genre, so I would have preferred it to have gone that way!
I hadn't thought about the spaceship, but now I very much am. Maybe it broke apart, scattering into pieces. Maybe the pieces affect Dixingren, like kryptonite? What if someone found it and realised its importance? Could they use it to bribe someone (Shen Wei?). Could the spaceship be made spaceworthy again?
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The spaceship is mentioned in the YOHE episodes, but I think that's the only time it comes up. My feeling is that the drama has a very sci-fi sensibility overall, what with the mutant powers and species discrimination themes (which I associate heavily with sci-fi, not fantasy - probably due to the fandoms/canons I've been into before) and the (censorship-mandated) stress on a "scientific" approach ... but it's not as if they couldn't have leaned into the sci-fi trappings harder. Either way, I'm happy with the drama as it is, so I'm not complaining. *g*
Those are all excellent questions about the spaceship! Whether it's intact or there are pieces around somehwere, there's so much you could do with it. One day I'm going to actually do that ...
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I will look forward to you thinking more about the ship pieces... And I'll try not to feed my own plot bunnies too much with the idea.
(What if the SID was secretly set up with a secondary purpose - to find any remaining pieces of the ship?)
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(And/or! What if some of the weird tech they have is actually derived from analysing remnants of the ship?)
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Here's where I want to bring up the question of POV! This narration starts out sounding as if it's a neutral outside observer, but here it's explicitly "we" and "us", the narrator aligning himself with Haixingren, which sort of colours the whole narration in retrospect.
That's really interesting -- thanks for highlighting it. I think it aligns the Haixingren narrator with the human audience, too, so we experience the revelation of powers, etc, from that naive perspective (like GCC).
But interestingly, there as here, what we don't see is a war being fought with Dixing powers.
I came up with a reason for this in one of my fics: that the Rebels wouldn't use powers in battle because Hei Pao Shi would instantly be able to learn them and retaliate in kind, and that Shen Wei didn't use them because that just leads to a terrible bloodbath.
Do you remember what you were thinking the first time you saw this? Did it surprise you, or did you already know about it?
I don't remember. I think I was just letting it flow over me, going, "I'm never going to remember all this!" :-) But I do really love that it's SF for all the themes and reasons you say. (And because I'd choose time travel over reincarnation every time, and I prefer the drama version of Shen Wei (going by the little I've heard of the novel). Those are just personal preferences, obviously.)
Any speculation on why they came to this planet and settled here - or why some of them chose to live underground? (The environment doesn't look all that hospitable!) Or why they were so susceptible to mutation?
I was going to say "space ship" even before I saw
Re the horses and battles -- ot1h, that would have been epic and amazing, but otoh, it would have necessarily involved a larger cast and extra plottiness, and I really love the intimacy of the YOHE scenes. They're so much about the three characters we already love, plus Fu You and Ma Gui, and I adore how much quiet focus they all got. That makes it more meaningful to me than a big battle sequence would have been, you know? (Still, though, horses... *wistful*)
*leaves a heap more kudos for good measure* :-D
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That's really interesting -- thanks for highlighting it. I think it aligns the Haixingren narrator with the human audience, too, so we experience the revelation of powers, etc, from that naive perspective (like GCC).
Yeah, that's a great point! And it eases the audience into the complexity of the situation, by starting out firmly in the human POV.
I came up with a reason for this in one of my fics: that the Rebels wouldn't use powers in battle because Hei Pao Shi would instantly be able to learn them and retaliate in kind, and that Shen Wei didn't use them because that just leads to a terrible bloodbath.
Yeah, I really like that interpretation because it makes a lot of sense with Shen Wei's power! Also the other version you wrote once, with the black energy dead spots. Very cool! :D
And because I'd choose time travel over reincarnation every time
Haha, you and me both! :D
I was going to say "space ship" even before I saw
Yeah, the "underground environment to mimic familiar spaceship surroundings" concept does make sense! And oooh, that's a great thought about their time in space affecting them and making them more susceptible to mutation!
Re the horses and battles -- ot1h, that would have been epic and amazing, but otoh, it would have necessarily involved a larger cast and extra plottiness, and I really love the intimacy of the YOHE scenes.
I love the intimacy too! But I wish we could have focused on those moments of intimacy against a more complex background, if that makes sense ...
Sorry again for the very late reply!
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I always thought the Dixing woman developing powers kinda looks like Sha Ya, personally XD just. The hairstyle and colour choice, I think? And we do get a very blink-and-you'll-miss-it moment of Shen Wei superimposed on the left! (his image actually lingers into the next set of images for a half second lol)
Here's where I want to bring up the question of POV! This narration starts out sounding as if it's a neutral outside observer, but here it's explicitly "we" and "us", the narrator aligning himself with Haixingren, which sort of colours the whole narration in retrospect.
It really does! Puts everything less into the fact and more in interpretation of history (or possibly even propaganda!) category. (also, question, do we know who did the voice-over? Because my brain keeps hearing Da Qing)
I'm not sure about the connection between the ecosystem being destroyed and specifically underground resources growing scarce. You'd think resources would be scarce everywhere.
Maybe it's because Dixing has less natural resources to start with? *ponders* Or the impact of the meteor happened directly above Dixing and thus as part of the impact zone, they were more affected for the harshest effects, while Haixing has more space so there are spaces that were less effected/out of range of the initial impact, and only slowly dealing with the spreading consequences? Hmmm.
But interestingly, there as here, what we don't see is a war being fought with Dixing powers.
That *is* interesting! I always get stuck on the "ambitious" adjective, personally. Because starving people looking for resources elsewhere isn't necessarily ambitious, imo? It's a fight for survival. So either there were some ambitious people taking advantage of the unrest to conquer land for themselves and create a following, grabbing at power (like the rebel chieftain possibly did?) or this is after all a propaganda version of history that favours Haixing's counter-attack as just and righteous and *defending* their property, and the subsequent forcing of Dixingren to remain in Dixing no matter what as equally justified? (Of course there's more possible layers to it, it's a whole spectrum of possibilities.)
And yes! Like you say, there's no mention of the Dixingren joining the Alliance! Which for me gives weight to the revised history/propagandized version of it theory :')
Zhao Yunlan does remark on one part of this inconsistency. He says he wasn't aware the Yashou played such an active part
Hmmm I wonder if that was part of the deal Fu You made during the peace treaty signing? Like, she's taking the Yashou away to be isolationist and segregated from Haixingren similarly to how Dixing are to stay in Dixing and away from Haixing... Perhaps one of the things she asked for was to be stricken from history so as to better vanish into nature? Or else it was later interepreted as such since Yashou *always* remain neutral between Haixing-Dixing conflicts following? Or are neutral in modern day? *ponders* Shen Wei's line makes no sense tho.
Do you remember what you were thinking the first time you saw this?
I remember my brain blue-screening at the infodump and just not. Taking a lot in. Like, "okay there's humans, mutants, and shapeshifters, got it, there was meteor and there was war, blah blah, whatever" xD I was here for the Weilan! I wanted to get to it! (at that point I was also convinced it'd be a reincarnation story because I vaguely recalled that plot point, not realizing it's in the novel rather than the drama, or that there were such major differences between the two lol. Guardian was only my second cdrama, after Untamed! I totally got the wrong impression from that xD)
(Everything about refugees and immigration and bigotry, and people being people ...)
I love those themes, too! At the beginning, it felt very X-Men to me in vibe :) I generally prefer fantasy over sci-fi, so I don't lean too much intothe sci-fi aspects usually, but there's a breadth of potential there.
What do you think about the ancestors of Dixingren and Yashou? One group or two?
I prefer the one group which then developed into two different races - explains why both carry dark energy. At the very least they must've be two species from the same planet, imo, they're too similar not to be, imo. Being adaptable seems like a good indicator too, since they both mutated to adapt to their environments!
What happened to their spaceship? The visuals suggest it didn't actually land, but instead beamed people down - is it still around somewhere?
I know there's a headcanon where the space-ship beamed itself below ground and is thus the ceiling/buffer between Dixing and the surrounding natural phenomenon. I like that one! But now I'm thinking, what if Haixing has like two moons, only it turns out the second is the ancient Dixing spaceship... xD
For the war, I wish we'd have seen something more like this in the flashbacks! Something that felt more like there was actual fighting going on. Do you think these fight scenes were what they had planned for originally?
Same!!! and it would make sense to be for budget reasons, period costumes and props tend to be more expensive, so when cuts had to be made... it's a shame though, I liked the implication of that original setting. Probably why I have so many WIPs set in a YOHE AU that's slightly different from canon xD (and also Canon AUs that are just. Different when ZYL arrives lol). The change of Haixingren vs Dixingren to Haixing-Yashou-Dixing alliance vs rebels especially is... hm. A big change? I do like the idea of it being passed down through history wrong, simplifying the conflict. But in that case I would've loved to see what the rebels are rebelling against. Also, not to make them purely Dixingren but an alliance of rebels against the system, or maybe like a roving tribe of people trying to steal from poor people to amass riches themselves, which the Alliance then opposed.
Conversely, if things had been more like it's suggested here, the flashbacks would have had to be very different. What would Shen Wei's role have been, in a world with no alliance? Any thoughts?
Shen Wei, leader of a troupe of Dixingren trying to find somewhere peaceful to settle on Haixing, fighting off unwarranted attacks and just trying to survive with his people. Then Kunlun!Zhao Yunlan shows up and brokers peace between the parties, giving Zhao Yunlan a moment to shine with his social skills (he's so good at negotiations!! LET HIM HAVE THIS) and Shen Wei being all starry-eyed at how deftly Kunlun handled the treaty signing... and then Ye Zun shows up to destroy everything, pretending to be Heipaoshi to pin the blame on him. Or something along those lines :3
I need to write this now, don't I? *sighs* *adds it to WIP list*
Thoughts from the Rewatch
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Huh! Their facial structure looks very different to me.
And we do get a very blink-and-you'll-miss-it moment of Shen Wei superimposed on the left!
Yes, great point, I should totally have mentioned that!
Puts everything less into the fact and more in interpretation of history (or possibly even propaganda!) category.
Right? And that's so fascinating in retrospect, because so many of the pieces of history we have don't really fit together, and it only makes sense if everything we don't see "live" on screen is distorted by time and agenda and so on. I'm really glad that there's actually support for that interpretation in the narrative itself - makes it easier to come up with a workable headcanon!
(also, question, do we know who did the voice-over? Because my brain keeps hearing Da Qing)
I have no idea who did the voiceover, but he doesn't sound like Da Qing to me.
Maybe it's because Dixing has less natural resources to start with? *ponders* Or the impact of the meteor happened directly above Dixing and thus as part of the impact zone, they were more affected for the harshest effects
Yeah, true, either could work!
That *is* interesting! I always get stuck on the "ambitious" adjective, personally. Because starving people looking for resources elsewhere isn't necessarily ambitious, imo?
100% agreed! They were essentially refuges. I did interpret it as some of them decided to take advantage of the situation and grab power for themselves, and that does seem to be what the Rebel Chieftain does - everything we see of him and his band of people is pretty nasty and not at all "people just trying to survive". But I also think that the focus on those people taking advantage, while eliding the probably many, many more who were just trying to get by however they could, is essentially a Haixing-flavoured propaganda version.
Hmmm I wonder if that was part of the deal Fu You made during the peace treaty signing?
Oooh, that's a brilliant thought, I love it! Fu You wanting to retreat with her people, and withdrawing so completely, her part in the entire thing was also "withdrawn", i.e. hidden. So, revisionist history and propaganda from the Yashou side - "we have always been neutral, nothing to see here ..."
I remember my brain blue-screening at the infodump and just not. Taking a lot in.
Haha, it IS a lot! I don't think I processed mroe than "spaceship, mutants, ancient war" either. Though I did go "yay, mutants" because I love that kind of thing. :D
Guardian was only my second cdrama, after Untamed! I totally got the wrong impression from that xD
Hee! It was my first, and I had no idea what to expect beyond the Weilan-centric spoilers I'd heard.
At the beginning, it felt very X-Men to me in vibe :)
Yes! It's got plenty of elements in common, not just the mutant powers but also the discrimination and bigotry themes. ♥ ♥ ♥
I generally prefer fantasy over sci-fi, so I don't lean too much intothe sci-fi aspects usually, but there's a breadth of potential there.
Here's a question - do you file X-Men under fantasy or sci-fi? (It's definitely sci-fi to me.)
I prefer the one group which then developed into two different races - explains why both carry dark energy.
Yeah, same here. I wish we knew more about their background and the planet they came from! Or that people wrote more fanfic about it. Because as you say, their adaptability is fascinating, and it would be really interesting to see what their species might have looked like in their native habitat.
I know there's a headcanon where the space-ship beamed itself below ground and is thus the ceiling/buffer between Dixing and the surrounding natural phenomenon. I like that one!
Oh, cool! I like that as well, now that I think about it. It would definitely make sense if their spaceship was used to build the new environment of Dixing ...
But now I'm thinking, what if Haixing has like two moons, only it turns out the second is the ancient Dixing spaceship... xD
That would be delightful! *grabby hands*
and it would make sense to be for budget reasons, period costumes and props tend to be more expensive, so when cuts had to be made... it's a shame though, I liked the implication of that original setting.
Right? *sighs for the budget*
(Seriously, most of the complaints about Guardian's budget don't really affect anything I strongly care about - it's cosmetic. Better sets for Dixing would have been great, for example! But better sets wouldn't change the narrative. Whereas with the flashbacks, a budget could have made a LOT of difference.)
The change of Haixingren vs Dixingren to Haixing-Yashou-Dixing alliance vs rebels especially is... hm. A big change? I do like the idea of it being passed down through history wrong, simplifying the conflict.
Yeah, me too!
But in that case I would've loved to see what the rebels are rebelling against. Also, not to make them purely Dixingren but an alliance of rebels against the system, or maybe like a roving tribe of people trying to steal from poor people to amass riches themselves, which the Alliance then opposed.
Hm, I don't think that would have worked as well for me. IMO the "rebels" as a Dixingren warband reaching for power have a strong racial supremacy subtext, which is part of why they work well for me in contrast to a multi-species alliance ...
Shen Wei, leader of a troupe of Dixingren trying to find somewhere peaceful to settle on Haixing, fighting off unwarranted attacks and just trying to survive with his people. Then Kunlun!Zhao Yunlan shows up and brokers peace between the parties, giving Zhao Yunlan a moment to shine with his social skills (he's so good at negotiations!! LET HIM HAVE THIS) and Shen Wei being all starry-eyed at how deftly Kunlun handled the treaty signing... and then Ye Zun shows up to destroy everything, pretending to be Heipaoshi to pin the blame on him. Or something along those lines :3
Oh, OUCH! :( :( :(
Is it still a peace agreement, if one side defeats the other?
I mean, yes? That's pretty typical for a peace agreement after a war ... How well it goes in the aftermath depends on how the victors treat the defeated party, of course.
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Huh! Their facial structure looks very different to me.
I'm partially faceblind (not bad, just terrible at recognising faces if I don't see them A Lot recently), so my brain tends to associate less with facial structure and more with hairstyle, posture, clothing :'D
Right? And that's so fascinating in retrospect, because so many of the pieces of history we have don't really fit together, and it only makes sense if everything we don't see "live" on screen is distorted by time and agenda and so on. I'm really glad that there's actually support for that interpretation in the narrative itself - makes it easier to come up with a workable headcanon!
Me too! And I kinda wanna do something with this (if only I had time for one more WIP... ^^") The idea of different factions having different ideas about what happened Back Then is fascinating. It does pull up the question what's up with the Flower Yashou and Shen Wei's talk about it early drama - and do different Yashou tribes remember their history differently? How has it evolved over the years? Why does Shen Wei play along (re, Yashou having remained neutral in YOHE)?
100% agreed! They were essentially refuges. I did interpret it as some of them decided to take advantage of the situation and grab power for themselves, and that does seem to be what the Rebel Chieftain does - everything we see of him and his band of people is pretty nasty and not at all "people just trying to survive". But I also think that the focus on those people taking advantage, while eliding the probably many, many more who were just trying to get by however they could, is essentially a Haixing-flavoured propaganda version.
Yeah, same! I wonder if "rebel" is a poor translation/word choice for the leader (iirc Zei Qiu translates more to traitorous chief? but I speak no Mandarin). Because to me, rebels need something to rebel against, whereas the Dixingren "rebels" more seem like a band of marauders or raiders taking advantage of the bad situation *ponders*
Here's a question - do you file X-Men under fantasy or sci-fi? (It's definitely sci-fi to me.)
Hmmm I think it doesn't feel like hard sci-fi to me? Like, yeah it's more on the technological/biological advancement of the end, but you could easily see it as a modern reskin for fantasy, depending on what source you rely on (my favourite was the X-Meno: Evo cartoon lol). So, to answer, soft sci-fi? Like, if I think about it I have to agree on sci-fi, but it has a lot of fantastical elements to it, too.
Better sets for Dixing would have been great, for example! But better sets wouldn't change the narrative. Whereas with the flashbacks, a budget could have made a LOT of difference.
Hard agree!
I mean, yes? That's pretty typical for a peace agreement after a war ... How well it goes in the aftermath depends on how the victors treat the defeated party, of course.
Fair enough! But the power is definitely in favour of the Alliance, and knowing Shen Wei wasn't involved due to later dirtnap (which still kinda feels like a retcon to me ngl) I wonder if Dixingren were disadvantaged between it being rebels of their people being the aggressor and not having a strong leader to advocate for their end during the treaty negotiations. I wonder too how much of this Fu You and Ma Gui had previously discussed with Heipaoshi!
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I'm partially faceblind (not bad, just terrible at recognising faces if I don't see them A Lot recently)
Same here, but video source has the advantage that I can put two pics directly next to each other for comparison. *g*
Me too! And I kinda wanna do something with this (if only I had time for one more WIP... ^^")
Haha, the eternal problem!
It does pull up the question what's up with the Flower Yashou and Shen Wei's talk about it early drama - and do different Yashou tribes remember their history differently? How has it evolved over the years? Why does Shen Wei play along (re, Yashou having remained neutral in YOHE)?
Yeah, all very good questions! It's so fascinating to think about, and Shen Wei having to grapple with everyone's different ideas of the history he lived through, and having to decide which versions to go along with and which to contest (and when trying to correct people is worth it, and when it isn't) would be really interesting to play with ...
I wonder if "rebel" is a poor translation/word choice for the leader (iirc Zei Qiu translates more to traitorous chief? but I speak no Mandarin). Because to me, rebels need something to rebel against, whereas the Dixingren "rebels" more seem like a band of marauders or raiders taking advantage of the bad situation *ponders*
I just checked, and he's variously called 贼酋 zéi qiú, traitorous chieftain, and 反抗团的首领 fǎnkàng tuán de shǒulǐng, leader of the rebel group, and similar expressions. I agree that "rebel" is a slightly weird term given the context, but it's in the original.
Hmmm I think it doesn't feel like hard sci-fi to me?
Oh, yeah, absolutely not hard sci-fi! But that sounds to me like for you, soft sci-fi is closer to fantasy than it is for me. *g*
I wonder if Dixingren were disadvantaged between it being rebels of their people being the aggressor and not having a strong leader to advocate for their end during the treaty negotiations. I wonder too how much of this Fu You and Ma Gui had previously discussed with Heipaoshi!
Yeah, it seems very likely that were disadvantaged to some degree! Ma Gui and Fu You clearly did mean well - they handed the Hallows over to Dixing; that's not a small thing - but even so. And they never did seem to share very much with the Envoy, so I wonder how much of it was even discussed ...