china_shop: Close-up of Zhao Yunlan grinning (Default)
The Gauche in the Machine ([personal profile] china_shop) wrote in [community profile] sid_guardian2021-10-09 11:48 am

Focus on: bb!Zhao Yunlan's mission statement (flashback), ep 39

Location: ep 39, 9:40 to 10:53 (here on Youtube)

Transcript from Viki subs, with a few tiny edits.

Context


Haixing sees Zhao Yunlan being tortured on Ye Zun’s Sky channel. Zhao Xinci looks repressedly distressed, but he turns to the Yashou tribe leaders and gives them assignments for the invasion. They run off to prepare, leaving Zhao Xinci and Zhang Shi to talk.

Zhang Shi: You've been getting more and more stubborn these past years, and I've become bossier. It's been so long since we worked together like this.
这几年你越来越固执了, 我也越来越啰嗦, 好像很久咱们没有这么齐心协力过了

Zhao Xinci: I'm just suddenly enlightened. Maybe you're right. The future is in the hands of the younger generation. For the old and conservative ones like us, it's time to step back.
我只是突然想明白了 或许你说得对 未来是孩子们的 而对于我们这些守旧的老人 应该退位了

Zhang Shi: I told you. Yunlan has been very different ever since he was a child.
我就说嘛 云澜那孩子从小就跟别人不一样

Flashback scene:

Zhao Xinci is in a hospital bed. Zhao Yunlan is in a visitor’s chair, looking through his father’s notebook.

First page of Zhao Xinci's notebook. Second page of Zhao Xinci's notebook. Third page of Zhao Xinci's notebook.
(Can anyone here read what these pages say?)

Wide shot of Zhao Xinci on his back in a hospital bed, with 12(ish)-year-old Yunlan at his bedside.

bb!ZYL: Dad, are all the Dixingren you caught bad guys?
爸爸, 你抓的那些地星人 都是坏人吗
ZXC: There's no absolute right or wrong in this world. But when a minority is harming the majority for their own benefit, they must be punished for what they've done.
这个世界上没有绝对的对与错 可是当少部分人为了自已的利益 而去损害大部分人的利益的时候 那么这些行为就必须受到惩罚

bb!ZYL: But how come the minority and the majority can't get along with each other peacefully?
那为什么少部分人不能和大部分人和平相处呢
If they ever get into a fight, won't many people die?
那万一他们打起来 岂不是会死很多人

Hospitalised Zhao Xinci is thoughtful.

ZXC: Nothing can be accomplished without norms or standards. Those who break the rules, you can't let them go easily.
没有规矩就不成方圆 对于这些破坏规矩的人 就绝对不能姑息

BB!Yunlan is defiant.

bb!ZYL: No, I don't want this. With my tolerance, my brain, and my life, I can definitely find a win-win resolution.
我不要 用宽容 用头脑 用生命 我一定有办法让他们皆大欢喜的
ZXC: You're too young to understand many things.
你还太小 很多事情不懂

A slightly mulish bb!Yunlan.
bb!ZYL’s reaction to being told he's too young to understand.

ZXC: (voice over) However, if that day does arrive, I'll be watching you, my boy.
不过 如果真的有一天 你就做给我看 儿子

As the scene transitions back to present day, we see Zhao Xinci saying those last words.

Key things about this scene


  • Even when Zhao Xinci and Zhao Yunlan were on good terms, they were in opposition. This is important because it shows Zhao Yunlan’s values aren’t just a fuck-you to his father.

  • They also aren’t a response to knowing and loving Shen Wei. Zhao Yunlan has always believed in them, deep down, even if he strayed into “arrest them all!” territory after his mother died.

  • bb!Yunlan is obviously not as much “I am a weapon” as young Shen Wei, but he did grow up determined to dedicate himself to peace. His saying “with my tolerance, my brain, and my life” suggests he was always prepared to put himself on the line for the greater good. (Which is why, in ep 15, Shen Wei has to say, “Zhao Yunlan, don’t you know how precious your life is?”)

  • I wonder if this is a (much politer and lower key) mirror to bb!Shen Wei meeting the Rebel Chief and calling him a murderer. Both of them rejecting the harsher/more violent philosophy of their elders?

Other observations and speculation


  • Timeline: this must be before Shen Xi’s death, because Zhao Yunlan and his father are on speaking terms, but it’s unclear whether it comes before or after the portal flashback where Shen Xi and Zhao Xinci fight at the SID about Xinci missing Yunlan’s graduation. (Anyone have any thoughts on that?)

  • Zhao Xinci isn’t so sick he has a heart-monitor or bustling nurses, but he is flat on his back and low-affect. I wonder if he’s sedated. There’s no hint as to why he’s in hospital, but given they’re both talking about Dixingren in generalities without any particular rancour, I’d guess it’s not work-related. (YMMV!)

  • Zhao Xinci has told bb!Yunlan about Dixingren, is showing him his notebook and trying to teach him about life. This is maybe the most functional we ever see their relationship!

  • I love the childhood hubris of Yunlan telling his sick father, “You’re doing it wrong! I could do better!” (Of course, this is an ongoing theme in their relationship, from both sides.)

  • The lead-in to this scene has Zhang Shi talking about Zhao Yunlan being different, while knowing Zhao Yunlan’s fate (from Ma Gui)—and he doesn’t breath a word of warning about that to Zhao Xinci. Ouch!


Questions


  1. When and why did Zhao Xinci first tell bb!Yunlan about Dixingren—or did Shen Xi do it? Do you think Yunlan is supposed to keep it secret from his peers, or was the existence of Dixingren more widely know back then?

  2. Why is Zhao Xinci in hospital? Heart trouble? A side-effect of having acquired Zhang Shi as a lodger? Or do you think it is work-related?

  3. What do you think of Zhao Xinci’s philosophy? Presumably this is the stance of Haixing officials, too. Is Zhao Xinci just trying to indoctrinate his son in the attitudes of his time, or are these his deeply held (pre-Shen Xi tragedy) beliefs?

  4. How do you think bb!Yunlan’s attitude changed after Shen Xi’s death? What drove him to become chief of the SID—this philosophy, or anger at Dixingren because of his mother?
velithya: (zhao yunlan - [Guardian])

Quick drive by comment

[personal profile] velithya 2021-10-09 01:59 am (UTC)(link)
I wonder if maybe this is after Shen Xi's fight at the SID with Zhao Xinci and before Shen Xi dies - because bb!Zhao Yunlan knows about Dixingren now which is a weird thing to tell a - ten year old? eleven year old? unless maybe you're trying to explain why your job is so important and why you need to spend so much time away from home/your family?

But I love that even if that's the case bb!Zhao Yunlan goes straight from Zhao Xinci's point (these Dixingren are very bad and I have a very important job catching/punishing them) to his own philosophy (surely there's a better way and I'm going to find it). I LOVE HE.

(I'll come back later!)
velithya: (zhao yunlan - [Guardian])

Re: Quick drive by comment

[personal profile] velithya 2021-10-12 04:19 am (UTC)(link)
> Though there could be a history of absence and busyness (and injury!) that leads up to this scene and that comes to a head later with the fight at the SID?

oh yeah, that's also very plausible! I guess without a confirmed chronology we just have to... decide for ourselves which order we like best hehehe

(And yes! You're 100% right and I do remember reading about his graduation having to be when he was 12 at the youngest - I just momentarily forgot ^^;; whoops!)

> imagine how frustrating for ZXC

oh absolutely. I would suspect that ZYL has stuck to his principles his whole life and ZXC has been trying to fruitlessly force him out of them for same!!

Going back to your post,

When and why did Zhao Xinci first tell bb!Yunlan about Dixingren—or did Shen Xi do it? Do you think Yunlan is supposed to keep it secret from his peers, or was the existence of Dixingren more widely know back then?

I think Zhao Yunlan is supposed to keep it a secret - I feel like the general population wouldn't forget in 15 years about a whole other race of beings living under the surface/occasionally among them. And maybe ZXC is sharing with his son in an attempt to be a form of trust / understanding / to try and bring ZYL around to his POV? (sorry ZXC, no dice!)

How do you think bb!Yunlan’s attitude changed after Shen Xi’s death? What drove him to become chief of the SID—this philosophy, or anger at Dixingren because of his mother?

I wonder if it's what ZXC wanted for him - to take over as SID chief - and whether instead of rejecting it entirely ZYL decided to lean into it and do a better job than his father ever did. And both this philosophy and his trauma re his mother would have played into it too - like he can do a better job than his dad because he's going to do things differently.
velithya: (shen wei - heipaoshi eyes [Guardian])

Re: Quick drive by comment

[personal profile] velithya 2021-10-16 08:31 am (UTC)(link)
> Though the broadcast to everyone on earth did assume some prior knowledge. But that's probably just because of the leaks to the media, right? Because you're right, no one seems to know much about them beforehand.

More evidence on this point I think is that way back in episode 1 or 2 when ZYL is talking to SW at the university, SW already knowing about Dixingren makes him inherently suspicious to ZYL!
velithya: (shen wei - YOHE [Guardian])

Re: Quick drive by comment

[personal profile] velithya 2021-10-17 01:35 am (UTC)(link)
Yeah I think it's - like if you're in the know, you're in the know, but otherwise you just Don't Speak About It! :3

heee I just cropped a few of my fav screenshots <.< He's so pretty :3
nnozomi: (Default)

[personal profile] nnozomi 2021-10-10 12:12 pm (UTC)(link)
Oh dear, so much to process in this short scene. Thank you for putting it together! A few things for the moment:

Zhang Shi: You've been getting more and more stubborn these past years, and I've become bossier. It's been so long since we worked together like this.
I wonder if this suggests there was a period when Zhao Xinci and Zhang Shi actually cooperated pretty amicably? Maybe post-Zhang Shi's appearance and pre-Shen Xi's death?

(Can anyone here read what these pages say?)
The first page just says something like "Work Notes" and Zhao Xinci's name in the bottom front corner. The other ones need someone with much better Chinese than me, but I can catch words like "crime," "corpse," "investigation," "record" and so on. Maybe not ideal reading for your kid, ZXC?

ZXC: Nothing can be accomplished without norms or standards.
This is such a clear statement of ZXC's philosophy, and runs so counter, as you point out, to Zhao Yunlan's willingness to say fuck the rules for the sake of human decency. (I don't think of it so much as a "harsher/more violent" philosophy per se, although it can obviously lead to that, as ZXC's strong need to have things orderly and organized under clear rules, and I wonder if any of that came from a need for control based in the huge loss of control of having Zhang Shi in his head.

bb!ZYL: No, I don't want this. With my tolerance, my brain, and my life, I can definitely find a win-win resolution.
*sniff*

I love the childhood hubris of Yunlan telling his sick father, “You’re doing it wrong! I could do better!” (Of course, this is an ongoing theme in their relationship, from both sides.)
Oh yes! Excellent point. And an interesting suggestion that they're kind of pointed at the same result, just with catastrophically different approaches.

The lead-in to this scene has Zhang Shi talking about Zhao Yunlan being different, while knowing Zhao Yunlan’s fate (from Ma Gui)—and he doesn’t breathe a word of warning about that to Zhao Xinci. Ouch!
On the one hand, it's hard to think what else Zhang Shi could have done. On the other, this whole issue is why I find him hard to forgive.

The chronology is very confusing. I think the major ZYL childhood incidents we know about are Zhang Shi's appearance, the lost dog, this hospital scene, the graduation fight, and Shen Xi's death, but I have no idea if that order is right for the middle three. (I did kind of assume that ZXC had been hurt in the line of work (or maybe overworked and collapsed or something? it runs in the family, ZYL) but maybe more due to accident than malice, since as you say neither of them seems directly angry about Dixingren.

I have to stop there or I'll ramble on forever; so much to think about!
awanderingcoyote: (Default)

[personal profile] awanderingcoyote 2021-10-17 01:26 am (UTC)(link)
Poor bb!ZYL! He just wants to be and do good and help people.

When and why did Zhao Xinci first tell bb!Yunlan about Dixingren—or did Shen Xi do it? Do you think Yunlan is supposed to keep it secret from his peers, or was the existence of Dixingren more widely know back then? -- That's a good question. My head cannon goes to after he acquired Zhang Shi. In case anything crazy happened to him?!

Why is Zhao Xinci in hospital? Heart trouble? A side-effect of having acquired Zhang Shi as a lodger? Or do you think it is work-related? -- I always read it as work related, like he's recouping from some mission that didn't go quite right. Though it could be from Zhang Shi too, since that for sure didn't go quite right LOL.

What do you think of Zhao Xinci’s philosophy? Presumably this is the stance of Haixing officials, too. Is Zhao Xinci just trying to indoctrinate his son in the attitudes of his time, or are these his deeply held (pre-Shen Xi tragedy) beliefs? -- Oo this is a good question. I'm a little waffling, but my feelings tend towards he was always something of a hardliner and then after his wife dies he just throws himself full force into that mode of thinking.

How do you think bb!Yunlan’s attitude changed after Shen Xi’s death? What drove him to become chief of the SID—this philosophy, or anger at Dixingren because of his mother? -- I think it cemented for ZYL that his father's ways are not the best way and when the opportunity arose to become SID chief he stepped in to change things. To try for a better way, but also to make sure no one has to go to losing their loved one like he did. Not that he can stop all bad things, but it's obviously a core part of him. To try to save everyone he can (looking at you Shen Wei, looking at you!) no matter the consequences. :D

Nice write up!!!