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sid_guardian2021-05-09 12:00 am
trobadora) wrote in sid_guardian2021-05-09 12:00 am
Entry tags:
Focus on: Professor Ouyang attempts to recruit Shen Wei (episode 1)
Location of scene: episode 1, 5:04 - 6:59
Context
This is at the very start of the show, before we know anything about anyone: there's the opening narration ("Haixing ... an ancient planet ...") explaining the set-up; then there's Shen Wei holding a lecture ("Investigating Species Variation from a Genetic Standpoint"), and then comes this scene, with Professor Shen, Professor Ouyang and Li Qian after the lecture:
After that, we're introduced to Guo Changcheng and Zhao Yunlan and the SID, but this comes first.
The Scene
Professor Ouyang has unexpectedly come to listen to Professor Shen's lecture. ("I didn't know you were coming today," says Shen Wei.) They don't seem to know each other well, and engage in some mutual complimenting and deflecting of compliments while Li Qian stands there in the background, zoning out.
Ouyang: "I have a favourite pupil of my own. When there's a chance, maybe you can talk to each other."
(A rewatch easter egg: it's an irrelevant aside at first, but in retrospect you realise he's talking about Lin Jing. :D)
Shen Wei smiles and agrees. Professor Ouyang makes as if to leave, then prompts Shen Wei to send Li Qian away so they can talk in private. (Well, semi-private, because Ouyang's driver is standing only a few metres away. *g*) Shen Wei has to call Li Qian's name twice to get her attention - something is clearly going on with her.
Ouyang: "Shen Wei, you and I both have access to first-hand information. I won't beat around the bush. You should be clear, that your supposed genetic mutations have already appeared in reality. They've been here for a long time. If I told you that your teacher and I are in the middle of investigating this, would you be willing to join us?"
Professor Ouyang is, unknowingly, attempting to recruit the Black-Cloaked Envoy for an investigation into Dixingren. :D
Here's what I find really interesting: Professor Ouyang makes it clear he knows what's really going on, and that he knows Shen Wei knows it too - but more than that, he hints at how they know. They both have access to information that others apparently don't.
And Shen Wei, in the face of being told that a) Professor Ouyang knows these things, and b) there's a group of scientists actively looking into this subject, either has very little reaction, or else has a pretty good poker face going on. All he does is swallow visibly, once. And then he smiles and refuses Ouyang's offer.
Shen Wei: "Professor Ouyang, you jest. I am just an ordinary scholar," he says (his go-to phrase, apparently, not just for deflecting Dixing-related suspicion, aschina_shop recently discovered), "doing research as part of my job. This path you mention is not for me."
He's very blunt - he's essentially politely slamming the door in Professor Ouyang's face. Ouyang is clearly not expecting this response - he says Shen Wei is the first person to reject him like this.
Ouyang: "Lao-Zhou is right, no one knows what you're thinking."
Our Shen Wei clearly has a bit of a reputation as a mystery, and/or as an eccentric. :D
Ouyang makes no second attempt; he essentially shrugs and tells Shen Wei, "fine, just keep doing whatever the fuck you're doing, kthxbai" (except more politely), and gets into his car to drive away. Shen Wei looks after him with a serious expression.
Some random things
There is a lot going on in this scene! Some of it is immediately relevant for this episode - something's wrong with Li Qian; Shen Wei knows things and something's up with him - but other things won't be relevant for many episodes: the entire plotline with the Ministry lab, and Lin Jing's connection to Professor Ouyang. It's a great scene that works both as an introduction to Shen Wei (his professor persona, his deflection, the fact that there's clearly something else going on under the surface) and, on rewatch, offers additional rewards. I love these things. :D
What I also love is how smooth Shen Wei and self-possessed is in this scene - he must find what Ouyang tells him about research into Dixingren concerning, and he shows none of it. He also very firmly and calmly he rejects Professor Ouyang's offer, even though it must be unexpected. He's very good at being politely distant, and at firmly insisting on his own path - I wonder how much practice he's had at all of that. And of course it matters that we see him like this first, before he gets completely knocked sideways by encountering Zhao Yunlan. That scene wouldn't work nearly as well as it does without the contrast!
Also, trivia: The car Professor Ouyang drives off in has a red 特 tè in its number plate - it's an official car. The same 特 as in 特别调查处, aka the SID! However, Zhao Yunlan's jeep and the other car they're using in episode 18 both appear to have a red 调 in their number plates instead.
(Normal cars have blue number plates with a 龙 lóng at the start (for 龙城, Dragon City).
Questions
So, come and talk to me about this scene! Or share links to meta, picspams, and related fanworks, if you have them - I couldn't think of any that directly referenced this scene, but there must be some. ♥
Context
This is at the very start of the show, before we know anything about anyone: there's the opening narration ("Haixing ... an ancient planet ...") explaining the set-up; then there's Shen Wei holding a lecture ("Investigating Species Variation from a Genetic Standpoint"), and then comes this scene, with Professor Shen, Professor Ouyang and Li Qian after the lecture:
After that, we're introduced to Guo Changcheng and Zhao Yunlan and the SID, but this comes first.
The Scene
Professor Ouyang has unexpectedly come to listen to Professor Shen's lecture. ("I didn't know you were coming today," says Shen Wei.) They don't seem to know each other well, and engage in some mutual complimenting and deflecting of compliments while Li Qian stands there in the background, zoning out.
Ouyang: "I have a favourite pupil of my own. When there's a chance, maybe you can talk to each other."
(A rewatch easter egg: it's an irrelevant aside at first, but in retrospect you realise he's talking about Lin Jing. :D)
Shen Wei smiles and agrees. Professor Ouyang makes as if to leave, then prompts Shen Wei to send Li Qian away so they can talk in private. (Well, semi-private, because Ouyang's driver is standing only a few metres away. *g*) Shen Wei has to call Li Qian's name twice to get her attention - something is clearly going on with her.
Ouyang: "Shen Wei, you and I both have access to first-hand information. I won't beat around the bush. You should be clear, that your supposed genetic mutations have already appeared in reality. They've been here for a long time. If I told you that your teacher and I are in the middle of investigating this, would you be willing to join us?"
Professor Ouyang is, unknowingly, attempting to recruit the Black-Cloaked Envoy for an investigation into Dixingren. :D
Here's what I find really interesting: Professor Ouyang makes it clear he knows what's really going on, and that he knows Shen Wei knows it too - but more than that, he hints at how they know. They both have access to information that others apparently don't.
And Shen Wei, in the face of being told that a) Professor Ouyang knows these things, and b) there's a group of scientists actively looking into this subject, either has very little reaction, or else has a pretty good poker face going on. All he does is swallow visibly, once. And then he smiles and refuses Ouyang's offer.
Shen Wei: "Professor Ouyang, you jest. I am just an ordinary scholar," he says (his go-to phrase, apparently, not just for deflecting Dixing-related suspicion, as
china_shop recently discovered), "doing research as part of my job. This path you mention is not for me."He's very blunt - he's essentially politely slamming the door in Professor Ouyang's face. Ouyang is clearly not expecting this response - he says Shen Wei is the first person to reject him like this.
Ouyang: "Lao-Zhou is right, no one knows what you're thinking."
Our Shen Wei clearly has a bit of a reputation as a mystery, and/or as an eccentric. :D
Ouyang makes no second attempt; he essentially shrugs and tells Shen Wei, "fine, just keep doing whatever the fuck you're doing, kthxbai" (except more politely), and gets into his car to drive away. Shen Wei looks after him with a serious expression.
Some random things
There is a lot going on in this scene! Some of it is immediately relevant for this episode - something's wrong with Li Qian; Shen Wei knows things and something's up with him - but other things won't be relevant for many episodes: the entire plotline with the Ministry lab, and Lin Jing's connection to Professor Ouyang. It's a great scene that works both as an introduction to Shen Wei (his professor persona, his deflection, the fact that there's clearly something else going on under the surface) and, on rewatch, offers additional rewards. I love these things. :D
What I also love is how smooth Shen Wei and self-possessed is in this scene - he must find what Ouyang tells him about research into Dixingren concerning, and he shows none of it. He also very firmly and calmly he rejects Professor Ouyang's offer, even though it must be unexpected. He's very good at being politely distant, and at firmly insisting on his own path - I wonder how much practice he's had at all of that. And of course it matters that we see him like this first, before he gets completely knocked sideways by encountering Zhao Yunlan. That scene wouldn't work nearly as well as it does without the contrast!
Also, trivia: The car Professor Ouyang drives off in has a red 特 tè in its number plate - it's an official car. The same 特 as in 特别调查处, aka the SID! However, Zhao Yunlan's jeep and the other car they're using in episode 18 both appear to have a red 调 in their number plates instead.
(Normal cars have blue number plates with a 龙 lóng at the start (for 龙城, Dragon City).
Questions
- Does anyone remember watching this scene for the first time? I'm so curious about what people thought about Shen Wei, based on this. *g*
- Given that Professors Ouyang and Zhou are working together at the lab, why is it Ouyang and not Shen Wei's teacher himself who's trying to recruit him here? (Besides introducing a villain for later in the show, that is.)
- What "first-hand information" is Ouyang referring to that he has access to, that he knows Shen Wei has access to, and that would have given both of them the knowledge of what's really up with Shen Wei's supposedly-theoretical mutations?
The Viki subs translate this not as "first-hand information" but as "top secret information," but the phrase in question is 接触第一手资料, literally access to first-hand information. And even if we go with the "top secret" interpretation, that clarifies nothing. Indeed, it only throws up further questions regarding why a professor of bioengineering with no government affiliation should have, and be known to have, such access! - Also, at this point, do they both know they're talking about Dixingren (and Yashou), or does Ouyang at this point only know that people with mutant powers exist? I always thought that in this conversation they both know they're talking about Dixingren-related research, but now I'm not so sure.
- Building on this - do you think it's possible the existence of people with mutant powers, or even the existence of Yashou and Dixingren, is more widely known in scientific circles? Professor Ouyang doesn't mention it until Li Qian has left, and even with Shen Wei the way he talks suggests this is generally not spoken of, but is it spoken about behind closed doors? To what extent is that possible without leaking and eventually blowing up in public?
- More generally, who knows what, in Haixing, outside the Ministry? Clearly the university's chancellor has no idea, and it's not meant to be common knowledge - but at the same time, there are people like Tan Xiao and Cheng Xinyan who are close with Dixingren (Zheng Yi and Zu Ma respectively) and know they're unusual, and we don't get many people being genuinely shocked.
- Is Shen Wei's minimal reaction to Professor Ouyang's research group due to his well-practiced "ordinary professor" mask, or is it because he already knew there were people working on related research, even if he wasn't aware of this particular project?
- What do you think Professor Zhou means when he says no one knows what Shen Wei is thinking?
- Professor Ouyang seems to shrug off Shen Wei's refusal very quickly. Is that him saving face, or was he just not very invested in recruiting Shen Wei? Was it mostly mostly Professor Zhou behind this recruitment attempt? (After all, much later at the ministry lab we'll hear Professor Zhou bring up Shen Wei at every turn, wishing he were there with them. *g*)
Or was Professor Ouyang not planning to recruit him at first? Was he just checking him out based on Professor Zhou talking about him a lot? Was he genuinely about to leave and then changed his mind? - What is Shen Wei thinking at the end as he watches Professor Ouyang's car drive away? Is he worried? Does he sound out Professor Zhou when he goes out drinking with him a few episodes later? Why doesn't he investigate in more depth, since the serum the lab develops is clearly a surprise to him?
(I would love to read the AU where Shen Wei finds out about the lab and what it's up to much earlier ... I have no idea what domino effect could result from there, but it would be very cool to find out!)
So, come and talk to me about this scene! Or share links to meta, picspams, and related fanworks, if you have them - I couldn't think of any that directly referenced this scene, but there must be some. ♥
no subject
I love those easter eggs moments that made no sense the first time through!! One of the things I find interesting about that line in retrospect is that it implies that Shen Wei and Lin Jing are of approximately equal status (by virtue of being Professor Zhou's and Professor Ouyang's proteges, respectively?), whereas we never see that equality in their interactions: Professor Shen clearly has higher social standing than Lin Jing, and is probably older too, and they never seem to bond as fellow scientists (that we see). I wonder if that's because Lin Jing is so techy and Shen Wei's so not.
I also wonder if Prof Ouyang feels a bit competitive with Prof Zhou, or defensive on Lin Jing's behalf every time Prof Zhou sings Shen Wei's praises, so he came specifically to check Shen Wei out (and because the lecture is relevant to his interests, after all), and then he's so impressed by what he sees that he can't help throwing out a recruitment lure. Or maybe the recruitment attempt is kind of a test?
Haha, excellent point! And Shen Wei has SO MANY reasons for refusing.
I love how absolutely sure of himself and unapologetic he is about it. It sets a precedent for his refusing ZYL's recruitment attempts, too. :-) And no doubt fuels Prof Ouyang's aggravation with Prof Zhou going on and on about Shen Wei. He must be thinking, "Why do you keep fussing about him when he refuses to work with us?"
Oh, that is such a good point! I love that. He's just so different with ZYL than he is with anyone else.
That is an excellent question! Perhaps there was an incident with a Dixingren during Shen Wei's undergrad days? Or perhaps Prof Zhou shared some of his research with Shen Wei, or got him to help with some of it?
Oh, I just remembered: Teacher Zhang, too. She doesn't seem shocked by Wang Yike's power, just sympathetic and practical. (Aw!)
Ooh, that's such a good subtext for his going not-drinking with Prof Zhou! I love that! But in general, I think he can't investigate in depth because it's a government lab, and any attempt to bypass their security protocols by a foreign dignitary would be a hostile act, wouldn't it? Don't any inquiries have to be done through diplomatic channels?
(Speaking of which, I have a fic that partly deals with unsavoury goings on at the DoS lab, and Shen Wei's trying to get to the bottom of it: astringent, spicy, sour, sweet.)
no subject
Oooh yes, that is an excellent point! I do think you're right that Professor Ouyang is playing up his own protegé, and that him checking out Professor Zhou's fave is part of why he's there. I just can't decide whether he came with the actual intention to recruit (unless Shen Wei's lecture turned out crap, obviously), or whether that was a last-minute decision.
and they never seem to bond as fellow scientists (that we see). I wonder if that's because Lin Jing is so techy and Shen Wei's so not.
Yeah, that's probably a big reason, and also the fact that at first Shen Wei keeps his distance to keep his secrets (all the most interesting things he could contribute would raise questions about how he knows them), and then he's The Black-Cloaked Envoy™ and they never get the chance to interact as scientists before plot gets in the way. But I would really love to see what a scientific collaboration between them might look like!
Or maybe the recruitment attempt is kind of a test?
A test for what?
I love how absolutely sure of himself and unapologetic he is about it. It sets a precedent for his refusing ZYL's recruitment attempts, too. :-)
Yes! This is a guy who is not shy about turning people down, and probably has turned down a hell of a lot of them. ♥
That is an excellent question! Perhaps there was an incident with a Dixingren during Shen Wei's undergrad days? Or perhaps Prof Zhou shared some of his research with Shen Wei, or got him to help with some of it?
Yeah, that's an option - that Professor Zhou got him involved in something classified. (Damn, I want to know more about Shen Wei and Professor Zhou!)
Oh, I just remembered: Teacher Zhang, too. She doesn't seem shocked by Wang Yike's power, just sympathetic and practical. (Aw!)
Yes! That's an excellent point. There are a lot of people around being very blasé about totally out-there things. They may not know about Dixing and all the context, but they're not nearly as surprised by weird mutant powers as they should be if it really were all completely hidden.
When Zhao Yunlan made that worldwide broadcast, and then when the whole Ye Zun crisis went public, I wonder how many people were like, "OH, now it makes sense". *g*
But in general, I think he can't investigate in depth because it's a government lab, and any attempt to bypass their security protocols by a foreign dignitary would be a hostile act, wouldn't it? Don't any inquiries have to be done through diplomatic channels?
Unless he decides the lab's activites are themselves a hostile act, I guess? Which I guess they aren't right now, and Shen Wei presumably has some amount of trust in Professor Zhou - but lateron they do get to that point.
Thanks for linking your fic too! I wish more people linked theirs on these posts. ♥
no subject
And maybe Lin Jing keeps his distance a little, once he knows Professor Shen's other identity, because it's one thing to spy on the SID and quite another to covertly surveille the BCE?
Yes, that would be fascinating!
Willingness to see Dixingness as something to be studied and mastered, willingness to align with the state's approach vs taking his own path, how biddable he is... something like that?
Do you think? Even later on, all they're doing is giving humans powers. If having powers is akin to being weaponised, then most Dixingren are de facto weaponised, but I don't know if it is (and I don't think Shen Wei wants to think it is?). Xiao-Guo's power isn't a weapon. The fact that Professor Ouyang later on intends it as weaponising doesn't change the fact of what they're doing, does it? Idk...
Me too! ♥
no subject
Yeah, that makes sense!
Willingness to see Dixingness as something to be studied and mastered, willingness to align with the state's approach vs taking his own path, how biddable he is... something like that?
Oh yeah, I see what you mean. I think that must absolutely be at least a part of it.
Do you think? Even later on, all they're doing is giving humans powers. If having powers is akin to being weaponised, then most Dixingren are de facto weaponised, but I don't know if it is (and I don't think Shen Wei wants to think it is?). Xiao-Guo's power isn't a weapon. The fact that Professor Ouyang later on intends it as weaponising doesn't change the fact of what they're doing, does it? Idk...
I think it definitely becomes hostile when the purpose of the lab becomes all about weaponising their research, yeah. YMMV.
no subject
Even then, I'm not sure investigating the lab as the Envoy would be justified, unless diplomatic relations have broken down to the point they're effectively at war. Which I don't think is the case? (Team Ye Zun doesn't represent Dixing, after all; they're insurgents in their own land, too.) I mean, I think the Envoy portaling into the lab and poking around would be seriously crossing a line, and maybe Shen Wei thinks taking a job there without disclosing his identity would be a bit like that.[1] Investigating the lab as part of the SID, otoh, seems less escalatory/boundary crossing, given that Zhao Yunlan has clearly decided the SID's remit is "whatever he thinks is important to protect everyone"... idk...
[1] assuming he even wanted to, which I don't think he does.
no subject
(Totally agreed that he doesn't want to take the job in the first place.
no subject
Professor Ouyang is, unknowingly, attempting to recruit the Black-Cloaked Envoy for an investigation into Dixingren. :D
LOL. Possibly it would have been advantageous for Shen Wei to say yes? as you say, in terms of being in on the investigation and not getting so blind-sided by the serum...
All he does is swallow visibly, once.
I think there is a meta to be written on when Shen Wei swallows instead of saying something out loud, honestly; it's a thing he does when there's a lot going around in his head (see also: classroom scene while Zhao Yunlan is blind, etc.).
He's very good at being politely distant, and at firmly insisting on his own path - I wonder how much practice he's had at all of that.
I would imagine that these are well-used tools in his practice of keeping up his "who me not even a little bit Dixingren" guise; not getting too close, not letting other people control the narrative so that he can't choose what to be involved in, etc.
Given that Professors Ouyang and Zhou are working together at the lab, why is it Ouyang and not Shen Wei's teacher himself who's trying to recruit him here?
Really more a response to
(Poor Li Qian who is just miserable and spacing out. I wonder if Shen Wei would have paid more attention to worrying about her if not distracted by Ouyang...).
no subject
It would probably have been useful, yes! But it makes sense to me that he doesn't, for multiple reasons. (It would be espionage, which is something the Black-Cloaked Envoy of all people definitely shouldn't get involved in; a classified research lab would probably mean more oversight which would make it difficult to maintain his double identity; also, he doesn't want to change jobs.)
I think there is a meta to be written on when Shen Wei swallows instead of saying something out loud
Oooh, yes, someone should definitely write that meta! An ode to Shen Wei's Adam's apple. :D
keeping up his "who me not even a little bit Dixingren" guise
Yeah, but what strikes me is that he's using it in a completely mundane context too, for deflecting praise and unwanted offers. I like that a lot.
I have a theory that the generations are staggered--Professor Zhou is notably older than Professor Ouyang, pushing retirement, and more of an uninvolved supervisor than an active participant in the lab project, while Professor Ouyang is an active senior academic. This means that their 愛弟子 are similarly staggered in age/seniority
Oh, yeah, that would make a lot of sense to me! Going by actors' age Shen Wei and Lin Jing woould only be two years apart, but they don't really read that way, do they?
(Poor Li Qian indeed!)
no subject
*nodnod* And obviously any age gap would bring with it some distance, but I do feel like if their personal styles and scientific approaches were more aligned, they'd be closer, you know? (Now I'm wondering if we even see them interact much before the "you have to kill me" scene...) (This is my only Lin Jing icon, which, yeah.)
no subject
Does anyone remember watching this scene for the first time? I'm so curious about what people thought about Shen Wei, based on this.
I remember reading a meta somewhere (either here or on Tumblr) that the cinematography and music in this scene can make the viewer believe that the show is hinting that Shen Wei could be an antagonist. My friend thought this, and she asked me if Shen Wei was the show's main villain. That initial first reading makes sense to me, especially on repeat viewings after knowing what Shen Wei knows and is hiding about the entire plot. However, while the air of mystery is undeniable, I personally read Shen Wei as very suspicious in the beginning (when I wasn't gushing over his scholarly persona and gorgeous looks).
(That meta poster even speculated if the show intentionally played up the suspicion because Shen Wei and Ye Zun are identical twins with very different personalities and moral compasses, which I also entertain. I'll link it if I can find it ;_;)
What "first-hand information" is Ouyang referring to that he has access to, that he knows Shen Wei has access to, and that would have given both of them the knowledge of what's really up with Shen Wei's supposedly-theoretical mutations?
It's possible that there is a niche, yet influential portion of the scientific community that has found concrete, consistently testable evidence of "theoretical mutations" that the government allows but will deny knowledge of if anything they believe "leaks" into mainstream circles. Some members could answer to the government directly (like Professor Ouyang with the serum lab), but others could be only related by knowing acquaintances with such affiliations with others (like a contract employee technically is not an employee, so to speak). No idea how that system would work in detail, but maybe Shen Wei obtained access to this knowledge by being Professor Zhou's mentee but decided to take a different route with his research. Shen Wei seems far more interested in educating people towards being open-minded towards Dixingren and Yashou by drop-feeding information carefully.
But this is all just me brainstorming possible ideas. No doubt there are weird sub-circles in major social institutions in real life that thrive beneath the notice of the everyday person, so I find it possible here as well.
More generally, who knows what, in Haixing, outside the Ministry?
I have no idea. The show is both consistent and inconsistent about this, so one can go either way. I do think it's interesting that despite Haixingren, Yashou, and Dixingren openly working together 10,000 years in the past, a lot of mainstream knowledge about Dixingren is gone and Yashou seem to be a question mark.
How much history has disappeared over so many millennia? Has much of it been swept under the "it's all just mythology" rug? The fact that Zhao Yunlan makes a global livestream to make Dixingren openly known when everything's going pear-shaped tells me that Haixingren and/or Yashou have made efforts over time to erase Dixing and Dixingren as much as possible for what they perceive as "peace" and "stability".
And why are Yashou - who are descendents of aliens like Dixingren are - exempt from being viewed as mutants? Is it because they don't have dark energy? Are the existence of Yashou common knowledge or just less obscure than Dixingren?
(Sorry for asking so many questions. It's all stuff that I've been wondering for a while.)
no subject
Oh yes! I think it's more in the previous bit, with the lecture - but that first moment, of him turning away from the blackboard and smiling, that's such a villain intro moment. And the rest definitely all makes him look very suspicious! I think that also came up in
I hope you do find the meta you remember - I'd love to read it. It sounds fascinating, especially the Shen Wei/Ye Zun angle.
It's possible that there is a niche, yet influential portion of the scientific community that has found concrete, consistently testable evidence of "theoretical mutations" that the government allows but will deny knowledge of if anything they believe "leaks" into mainstream circles.
I think that would probably be very hard to contain, but it doesn't seem impossible. Agreed that Shen Wei seems far more interested in educating people, so him finding out via Professor Zhou but then going a different route would make sense to me, yeah.
I do think it's interesting that despite Haixingren, Yashou, and Dixingren openly working together 10,000 years in the past, a lot of mainstream knowledge about Dixingren is gone and Yashou seem to be a question mark.
Yeah, and it's interesting that the Yashou are fully aware of their history, remembering Fu You and having traditions that go back all the way to that time! What happened that humans didn't pass on that knowledge? It's so fascinating, these different histories! And yeah, I could totally see it ending up as mythology for Haixingren - I'd totally read a fic about Haixing myths. *g*
And why are Yashou - who are descendents of aliens like Dixingren are - exempt from being viewed as mutants? Is it because they don't have dark energy? Are the existence of Yashou common knowledge or just less obscure than Dixingren?
I think they do have dark energy - or at least the transformation effect for the crows and Da Qing uses the same black energy CGI. *g* And I'm not sure how well known they are - I don't think most ordinary people know about any kind of superpowers existing, whether they be Dixingren or Yashou. But there are definitely different attitudes at play - the Yashou seem to be mostly ignored, whereas Dixingren are seen as a threat, even before things come to a head with Ye Zun. And no one can tell me that no Yashou ever acted up among humans ...
(Sorry for asking so many questions. It's all stuff that I've been wondering for a while.)
Never be sorry for asking questions! That's half the fun for speculating, having people bring up new questions!
no subject
My impression is that the Yashou mostly keep to themselves, and when they do mix with human society, they pass as human (or as snakes, flowers, or crows). Fourth Uncle talks about Zhu Hong's father going to live in a human city as if it's an unusual and rebellious thing to do, and tries to get Zhu Hong to come home and get married, and Ya Qing calls the dying crow girl eccentric for being interested in human society. Plus there's the way lao-Li reacted to Da Qing's shapeshifting when they first knew each other -- shock and violence.
By the authorities in the know, I suspect Yashou are seen as less of a threat just because there's so few of them and they're so isolationist. And there might be an element of "they live on the surface, in sunlight like we do, so they're more like us" prejudice, too, maybe?
no subject
That's such a good point! I hadn't previously thought about it, but it definitely is a character beat that is, in retrospect, quite important.
To be honest, my recollection of watching this scene is very... one-dimensional. It was a) the first time I saw Zhu Yilong on screen, and let's be real, that man is entirely too beautiful, and b) the first time I ever fell in love with a character within, like, the first ten minutes of a show. I absolutely wasn't paying attention to all the lovely details you pointed out here XD
More generally, who knows what, in Haixing, outside the Ministry? Clearly the university's chancellor has no idea, and it's not meant to be common knowledge - but at the same time, there are people like Tan Xiao and Cheng Xinyan who are close with Dixingren (Zheng Yi and Zu Ma respectively) and know they're unusual, and we don't get many people being genuinely shocked.
Honestly, I don't think the show is hugely consistent about this. But given the kind of 'Dixingren incidents' we see throughout the show, it's more believable that quite a few people know than not, I think. They're not exactly subtle, and given how much people like a good conspiracy theory... We might end up with a division along the lines of 1) people who know nothing, 2) Government officials who know for sure, 3) people who've seen some stuff, but don't know for sure, 4) people who think it's all some hoax/conspiracy theory. But I can't really imagine it being as much of a secret as it's sometimes implied in canon. That also includes it apparently not raising much in the way of official flags that Shen Wei clearly knows about Dixing. I'd quite like it to be an open secret in academia actually - that would bode well for any theoretical integration of the two cultures in a happier fix it world.
What do you think Professor Zhou means when he says no one knows what Shen Wei is thinking?
Shen 'Man of Mystery' Wei strikes again :P
(I would love to read the AU where Shen Wei finds out about the lab and what it's up to much earlier ... I have no idea what domino effect could result from there, but it would be very cool to find out!)
... Oh no, brain Do Not do this. *glares at piles of WIP ideas already cluttering up everything*
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Haha, at first sight I actually found Bai Yu more attractive! But then I also think Zhu Yilong looks more gorgeous without glasses. And he has the kind of face that just becomes ... more ... beautiful???? the longer you look at it?! I have no idea how he's even real.
Honestly, I don't think the show is hugely consistent about this. But given the kind of 'Dixingren incidents' we see throughout the show, it's more believable that quite a few people know than not, I think. They're not exactly subtle, and given how much people like a good conspiracy theory... We might end up with a division along the lines of 1) people who know nothing, 2) Government officials who know for sure, 3) people who've seen some stuff, but don't know for sure, 4) people who think it's all some hoax/conspiracy theory.
Yeah, agreed. The show really doesn't offer a consistent explanation (or any kind of clear explanation), but going by what we see, and taking into account that at the start of the show the SID has been in a lull for a while, I can totally buy that plenty of people have no clue, but also plenty of others know at least something, if not the full details about Dixing.
Zhao Yunlan is pretty surprised when Shen Wei turns out to know about Dixing, whereas one of the police guys in episode 1 openly explains to the other about the SID taking weird cases, so I wonder if perhaps so I wonder if the existence of people with weird powers is pretty much an open secret, but the actual details (Dixing being a separate underground realm, Dixingren being a separate species descended from aliens, that sort of thing) are still an actual for-real secret that only very few people know about.
... Oh no, brain Do Not do this. *glares at piles of WIP ideas already cluttering up everything*
I like the way your brain works. :p
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I wonder if the existence of people with weird powers is pretty much an open secret, but the actual details (Dixing being a separate underground realm, Dixingren being a separate species descended from aliens, that sort of thing) are still an actual for-real secret that only very few people know about.
That'd be a neat approach! Leaves wriggle-room, and is quite realistic in terms of, well, people noticing odd things, but not having access to the information that would clarify things. And then there's the Yashou as well, who seem to just be living not far from the city and not making all that much of an effort to blend in, from what we see.
Either way, for fic writing purposes, it's helpful because you can basically just decide what you want to go with each time.
I like the way your brain works. :p
That makes one of us... I never had this many WIPs/story ideas for any fandom before, it's discombobulating and I can't keep up. Even just thinking about all the plot bunnies I'll never get round to is making me sad. (Then again, having this much inspiration is wonderful and I shouldn't complain.)
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Hee! He definitely deserves it. :D
Either way, for fic writing purposes, it's helpful because you can basically just decide what you want to go with each time.
Yeah, I like the openness of it! You can do so many different things with it, and none of it contradicts canon. &heartsM
That makes one of us... I never had this many WIPs/story ideas for any fandom before, it's discombobulating and I can't keep up.
Haha, I'm always like that - too many WIPs, too little tme/energy. At least you won't run out of things to write any time soon!
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I agree that Professor Ouyang is ultimately in charge, yeah.
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This is such a great point/observation! They really set up all the characters so well that we can *see* them get more complex with each interaction :D well done!
Given that Professors Ouyang and Zhou are working together at the lab, why is it Ouyang and not Shen Wei's teacher himself who's trying to recruit him here?
I always thought Professor Zhou knew Shen Wei would decline! Either he'd talked about it casually before to gauge his reaction or even offered, or he just knows Shen Wei well enough. Shen Wei isn't in this for fame and accolades, he wants a quiet life and imo I think Shen Wei enjoys teaching - something that gets harder for him to do with extracurricular activities *nods at the dean* So even if Prof Zhou isn't aware of the Shen Wei's view re: Dixingren (being one himself), he'd glean that this isn't something Shen Wei wants to pursue, so he'd leave off being pushy so as not to abuse Shen Wei's gratitude towards him as a mentor? (I'm making a lot of assumptions here whoops)
What "first-hand information" is Ouyang referring to that he has access to, that he knows Shen Wei has access to, and that would have given both of them the knowledge of what's really up with Shen Wei's supposedly-theoretical mutations?
That's a very interesting question, and I'm not sure! I'd guess Professor Ouyang actually has "specimen" or readings of "specimen" to study, but that's the sort of access he's offering Shen Wei here, isn't he? My best theory is that Ouyang makes assumptions based on Shen Wei's clear, concise and *accurate* research. It's too on the nose to not be first-hand experience kind of deal?
I always thought that in this conversation they both know they're talking about Dixingren-related research, but now I'm not so sure.
This has also been my view!
Building on this - do you think it's possible the existence of people with mutant powers, or even the existence of Yashou and Dixingren, is more widely known in scientific circles? Professor Ouyang doesn't mention it until Li Qian has left, and even with Shen Wei the way he talks suggests this is generally not spoken of, but is it spoken about behind closed doors? To what extent is that possible without leaking and eventually blowing up in public?
I don't think so, not the way it's established in the show's worldbuilding. I think it's more likely that Professor Ouyang has special privileges due to his position as a well-renowned researcher into the right kind of areas - he very well might've been recruited for this knowledge by Xingdu Bureau's director(s) at some point. Clearly, Haixing Labs is closely connected to the government (especially considering Zhao Xinci comes by to check their progress regularly-ish, and they kind of answer to him). I think it's this close and high-up connection that gives Ouyang and his team access. Why he thinks Shen Wei has access *shrugs* same as why he thinks he knows about them? (He can't know Shen Wei is Heipaoshi, which would be another high level secret and the only other idea I have... but maybe he overheard/gleaned something close enough that gave him the impression? Or did Zhang Shi tell him to recruit Shen Wei? but why??? Zhao Xinci is very determined to have this research finished, but I doubt he'd tolerate the Envoy working on it...)
there are people like Tan Xiao and Cheng Xinyan who are close with Dixingren (Zheng Yi and Zu Ma respectively) and know they're unusual, and we don't get many people being genuinely shocked.
Yeah, that's a rub. Idk. I assume we're meant to read them as a handful of people who are in close contact and keep Dixingren's secrets to protect them? I really need to rewatch Zu Ma's episode to say more tho.
Is Shen Wei's minimal reaction to Professor Ouyang's research group due to his well-practiced "ordinary professor" mask, or is it because he already knew there were people working on related research, even if he wasn't aware of this particular project?
I wonder! I want to say he didn't know but might've suspected... but he also really doesn't do anything with this knowledge, to investigate or have countermeasures in place or... idk. He doesn't know the extent of their research of course but it should ring some warning bells, right?
What do you think Professor Zhou means when he says no one knows what Shen Wei is thinking?
That Shen Wei isn't easy to influence/bribe because he's not interested in the usual things (women, money, fame). Plus Shen Wei has an A+ poker face, he's very unreadable and faultlessly polite always, keeping people at arms' length, even people he's supposed to be closer to. So he's hard to predict. (Also he's happy staying in a teaching position because that's his passion, and I'm sticking with this headcanon xD)
Professor Ouyang seems to shrug off Shen Wei's refusal very quickly. Is that him saving face, or was he just not very invested in recruiting Shen Wei? Was it mostly mostly Professor Zhou behind this recruitment attempt?
I think Professor Zhou's constant praise made Ouyang curious, so he went to check Shen Wei out and found him a good fit on the basis of his lecture. But the resolute and blunt way Shen Wei refuses, not leaving any room for negotiations throws him. I don't think he's even considering a second attempt after that because it had such a... final ring to it? Shen Wei plants himself and won't be moved. And while Professor Ouyang is looking to recruit more people, there's many talented, up-and-coming scientists who would throw themselves at his feet for the chance, he has no need to go begging. I think he sees himself as something of a benevolent benefactor offering this grand opportunity to Shen Wei, he's not fussed to convince him. (Overall, my impression of Ouyang is of being overconfident and self-impressed lol)
Does he sound out Professor Zhou when he goes out drinking with him a few episodes later? Why doesn't he investigate in more depth, since the serum the lab develops is clearly a surprise to him?
Yes! and I have no idea, I cannot make heads of tails out of it. Maybe because the plot thickened and escalated so quickly he was too busy with Dixingren/Zhu Jiu/the Hallows and had to put it on the backburner? After all, he didn't know it was *that* serious, they were just looking into things... (I would like to think he would've eventually, though!)
And yes to more Serum fics! Of all kinds :D I love playing with Haixing Labs as an Antagonistic Force
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Right? It's done so well, I love it!
I always thought Professor Zhou knew Shen Wei would decline!
Oooh, that never occurred to me, but I love it! So Professor Zhou is just wistfully sighing to himself, "ah, if only Shen Wei were here ...", and Professor Ouyang is the one who takes the step towards attempted recruitment - that would make sense to me!
Also, I really like the idea of Professor Zhou being pushy with Shen Wei about inconsequential things like drinking alcohol (scolding him for not drinking!) but not pushing when it's something that actually matters. ♥
That's a very interesting question, and I'm not sure! I'd guess Professor Ouyang actually has "specimen" or readings of "specimen" to study, but that's the sort of access he's offering Shen Wei here, isn't he? My best theory is that Ouyang makes assumptions based on Shen Wei's clear, concise and *accurate* research. It's too on the nose to not be first-hand experience kind of deal?
Hmmm. Agreed about what Professor Ouyang has access to and is offering Shen Wei, but it sounds to me like the supposed "first-hand information" is not just something Professor Ouyang deduced from Shen Wei's research, but actively knows, probably from Professor Zhou. I wish the show had gone more into the research side of things, so we'd know more!
I think it's more likely that Professor Ouyang has special privileges due to his position as a well-renowned researcher into the right kind of areas - he very well might've been recruited for this knowledge by Xingdu Bureau's director(s) at some point.
Yeah, I think Professor Ouyang's lab is clearly government-sponsored at least, or (more likely IMO) outright government-run. He's the scientific head, but he answers to Xingdu Bureau.
(He can't know Shen Wei is Heipaoshi, which would be another high level secret and the only other idea I have... but maybe he overheard/gleaned something close enough that gave him the impression? Or did Zhang Shi tell him to recruit Shen Wei? but why??? Zhao Xinci is very determined to have this research finished, but I doubt he'd tolerate the Envoy working on it...)
Tbh I can't see any of those. I don't think anyone knows about Shen Wei being the Envoy outside of two or three people at Xingdu Bureau, and they want him far away from this.
Actually, I think the information Shen Wei is supposed to have access to is also information Professor Ouyang knows Professor Zhou has access to ... but what exactly it is or where it comes from, I don't have a good theory on (yet).
I assume we're meant to read them as a handful of people who are in close contact and keep Dixingren's secrets to protect them?
That definitely makes sense!
I want to say he didn't know but might've suspected... but he also really doesn't do anything with this knowledge, to investigate or have countermeasures in place or... idk. He doesn't know the extent of their research of course but it should ring some warning bells, right?
I think it does ring warning bells, but it's never anywhere near the top of his priority list, and he mainly thinks of it as research that may prove troublesome in the long term, not research that will lead to immediate danger for anyone. He's underestimating how far they'll go at the lab, but to be fair by the time the lab starts really pushing it Shen Wei is very busy with other threats. Like you say later in your comment, things escalate very quickly. Which makes me wonder what he might have done if things had moved more slowly and he'd had more time to look into things ...
That Shen Wei isn't easy to influence/bribe because he's not interested in the usual things (women, money, fame). Plus Shen Wei has an A+ poker face, he's very unreadable and faultlessly polite always, keeping people at arms' length, even people he's supposed to be closer to. So he's hard to predict.
I love that description of him. ♥ ♥ ♥
(Also he's happy staying in a teaching position because that's his passion, and I'm sticking with this headcanon xD)
My headcanon too! Tbh I think it's pretty strongly supported by canon. He loves teaching, and he loves his students, and he wants to do right by them.
Shen Wei plants himself and won't be moved. And while Professor Ouyang is looking to recruit more people, there's many talented, up-and-coming scientists who would throw themselves at his feet for the chance, he has no need to go begging.
Very true! ♥
(And you're so right about Professor Ouyang's self-image! Which makes me wonder a lot about his dynamic with Lin Jing, before all this. Because Lin Jing isn't generally the sort to (convincingly) flatter anyone's ego ...)
And yes to more Serum fics! Of all kinds :D I love playing with Haixing Labs as an Antagonistic Force
Yes! It's great, there's so much you can do with it!
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Right? I think the vibe is different, too - Professor Zhou at most would've brought the project up in private as a nudge nudge-wink wink offer without forcing Shen Wei to outright refuse. But scolding him for not drinking is part of his mentorly duties, as drinking is a large part of social networking and Shen Wei is supposed to make those connections to help his career. Working for Haixing Labs on the other hand is a big career decision he leaves to Shen Wei, because it would change a lot for him and the direction he's going. Networking he'll always have to do <3
I wish the show had gone more into the research side of things, so we'd know more!
It really doesn't follow up on the details! Staying vague helps set up the vibes without contradicting itself later, but yes, what if we knew... :( xD
or (more likely IMO) outright government-run. He's the scientific head, but he answers to Xingdu Bureau.
Agreed! That's the reading I lean towards, too.
Actually, I think the information Shen Wei is supposed to have access to is also information Professor Ouyang knows Professor Zhou has access to ... but what exactly it is or where it comes from, I don't have a good theory on (yet).
Hm, good point! Maybe Professor Zhou is a bit secretive of how he got access to some information (which he has from Shen Wei, maybe? I can't see Shen Wei trusting Professor Zhou with his Dixingren status, it's too big a secret he keeps like you said, there's maybe 2-3 higher ups in government who know and to everyone else he's just 'normal'.) But where else would they get that info? Unless it's through the government, in which case, does Professor Ouyang insinuate Professor Zhou ilegally shared top secret research with his student!? He wouldn't work with Haixing Labs if he did! And Shen Wei apparently gets away with insinuating his knowledge (his prior presentation about "let's ignore the facts we think we know and assume there is something like this out there"...) Ngggh, I'm gonna keep nibbling at this until there's a good theory, too x'D
He's underestimating how far they'll go at the lab, but to be fair by the time the lab starts really pushing it Shen Wei is very busy with other threats.
Fair enough!
(And you're so right about Professor Ouyang's self-image! Which makes me wonder a lot about his dynamic with Lin Jing, before all this. Because Lin Jing isn't generally the sort to (convincingly) flatter anyone's ego ...)
His dynamic with Professor Ouyang is fascinating once he returns to Haixing Labs. He calls out Professor Ouyang once or twice iirc when Ouyang has his descent into mad scientist... So their relationship seems to be close enough to allow for that, but not for Lin Jing's concerns to carry weight. Maybe Prof Ouyang is so easy to flatter that Lin Jing's dramatic compliments are enough? XD
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Hee! I love that distinction. :D
Hm, good point! Maybe Professor Zhou is a bit secretive of how he got access to some information (which he has from Shen Wei, maybe? I can't see Shen Wei trusting Professor Zhou with his Dixingren status, it's too big a secret he keeps like you said, there's maybe 2-3 higher ups in government who know and to everyone else he's just 'normal'.) But where else would they get that info?
I can't see Shen Wei sharing this kind of info lightly, so he'd need a very good reason. But perhaps the actual source isn't Shen Wei, but a case like Zu Ma's, a Dixing person who grew up in Haixing and whose weird symptoms were investigated by various doctors and eventually ended up with geneticists? A Dixing kid who perhaps was separated from their parents as a baby and didn't even know they weren't human, and so didn't know there was anything to keep secret? And depending on what was found when researching this, and which doctors/researchers were involved, something might well have ended up classified. That's my current theory, at least.
His dynamic with Professor Ouyang is fascinating once he returns to Haixing Labs. He calls out Professor Ouyang once or twice iirc when Ouyang has his descent into mad scientist... So their relationship seems to be close enough to allow for that, but not for Lin Jing's concerns to carry weight. Maybe Prof Ouyang is so easy to flatter that Lin Jing's dramatic compliments are enough? XD
Hee! Great observation about their dynamics, and yeah, maybe Professor Ouyang likes it when Lin Jing goes all OTT? *g*