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sid_guardian2020-11-14 10:50 am
china_shop) wrote in sid_guardian2020-11-14 10:50 am
Entry tags:
Focus on: SID team reviewing video of the Envoy, from episode 2
Location of scene: episode 2, 11:11 to 12:24
Scene recap
In the lab, Lin Jing, Zhu Hong and Wang Zheng are watching video of the Black-Cloaked Envoy and Zhao Yunlan on the rooftop in episode 1.
The footage is upside-down because Lin Jing had been openly filming the Shadow Man confrontation with his phone, and when the Envoy appeared, he dropped his hands to his sides. For some reason, it's also slightly distorted. (Maybe large amounts of Dixing energy bend light?) There's a small chimney or vent on the ground in the Envoy's shadow.
Lin Jing says, "Did you see that? This is very bad. Dixing's Black-Cloaked Envoy is said to be ruthless.[1] Why was he lenient towards our boss? He isn't biding time for revenge, is he?"[2]
--
[1] Said by who? Is this something Chu Shuzhi has put around, to intimidate everyone into being respectful? Did it come from Zhao Xinci via Zhao Yunlan or Professor Ouyang? Did Zhu Hong (who was the first to recognise the Longevity Dial, after all) say it based on Yashou lore? Or someone else? Regardless, this is a continuation of setting the Envoy up as a mysterious and fearsome figure.
[2] I love that everyone is fully aware of how rude Zhao Yunlan was to the Envoy, and even though they endorse his attitude (and take their cue from it), some of them are a little nervous about the consequences. They don't yet 100% trust that Zhao Yunlan can navigate these waters.
"I think you are the bad one. Do you think it's a mistake that the name 'Lao Zhao' makes even ghosts apprehensive?" says Zhu Hong.[3]
"Exactly," says Wang Zheng. "You dared to film the Black-Cloaked Envoy when he visited us?"[4]
--
[3]foxghost says here that in the novel "Zhu Hong will SAY Zhao-chu to his face and refer to him in convos and in her head with utterly foul language, so anything from asshole to bastard to motherfucker to a slur, occasionally 鬼見愁 / guijianchou / even ghosts feel horrid when they see him."
(FWIW, Zhu Hong also uses this or similar epithets for Zhao Yunlan when she delivers the laptop to Shen Wei for the "bears" scene in ep 7, under her breath when she's angry with ZYL in ep 9, and in her dream in ep 31.)
But I'm not sure what that reference to Zhao Yunlan implies here. Is she saying he can hold his own even with the Envoy? And how did Zhao Yunlan earn this reputation as an asshole/ badass?
[4] It's not clear why filming the Envoy is disrespectful. Because it was done surreptitiously, and it means Lin Jing didn't pay attention in his presence? Because they're undermining the Envoy's otherworldly mystique? Or just because secretly filming anyone would be rude?
This is the face Chu Shuzhi makes as comes in and overhears them. Really not happy.
Lin Jing shushes Wang Zheng too late. Chu Shuzhi thumps on the desk and lectures them sternly: "The Black-Cloaked Envoy is our hero. He is not gossip fodder."
"I nearly forgot. We have a huge fan of the Black-Cloaked Envoy here," says Wang Zheng, completely uncowed and somewhat teasing.[5]
Lin Jing, being corporeal and a desk jockey, is more easily frightened. "Lao-Chu, don't be mad. I'll delete it now. There, it's deleted."[6]
--
[5] I feel like calling Chu Shuzhi a fan is dismissive of both the Envoy and Chu Shuzhi, at least in Chu Shuzhi's eyes. It suggests Chu Shuzhi's dedication to the Envoy is a matter of personal taste, rather than grounded in objective reasons. But then, the SID don't know that Chu Shuzhi and the Envoy have an ongoing relationship.
[6] No one checks to make sure he's deleted it. And I presume he's already sent a copy to Professor Ouyang.
Chu Shuzhi steps into a more dramatic camera angle. The tinkly piano music of the mysterious and numinous plays. (It's the same music that plays in ep 15 when the incognito Regent is persuading an unsuspecting xiao-Guo to escort him to the SID, and it's used at other times too. I'm not quite sure what it's supposed to signify here, given we already know lao-Chu is Dixingren.)
Chu Shuzhi glares at the others coldly and changes the subject. "Anyone know why we're saddled with the newbie? He's hopelessly stupid and a coward.[7] Does Zhao Yunlan tolerate that?"[8]
--
[7] This is the first time we've seen Chu Shuzhi since xiao-Guo tried to question the Envoy about taking the Shadow Man away, so this complaint is at least partly a reaction to that. Chu Shuzhi does not want to have to look after a kid who's clueless/entitled enough to publicly critique the Envoy!!
[8] Note Chu Shuzhi isn't taking his grievance to Zhao Yunlan -- maybe because Chu Shuzhi's working at the SID on the Envoy's behalf, and he feels like he can't make trouble. Or maybe he just doesn't like talking to Zhao Yunlan because of the casual anti-Dixing bigotry.
"It's exactly the opposite," says Zhu Hong, sounding firm and reasonable.[9] "Despite his outwardly cold attitude, who knows, Lao Zhao might appreciate him. Such an innocent child in these times. Where can we find one like him?"[10]
--
[9] I love that neither Wang Zheng or Zhu Hong is scared of lao-Chu. I don't know if they trust him to be too chivalrous to hurt them, or if being a ghost and a Snake Yashou, respectively, gives them confidence.
[10] Do you think Zhu Hong really believes Zhao Yunlan might think that way? Why doesn't she pass on his theory about xiao-Guo's arrival being the result of nepotism?
Chu Shuzhi is incredulous at this defence.
"Innocent?" He scoffs and complains, "Fine, then why do I have to be the one to babysit him? I'm the only field personnel in the SID. You think I don't have enough trouble to deal with?" He stomps off without waiting for an answer.[11]
--
[11] Oddly, he doesn't go back the way he came; either there's a second exit from the lab or he came in to get something.
The others look at each other and snicker.
Great things about this scene
It's a minor scene, but there are a lot of things to enjoy about it.
Questions
As well as the various questions above, here are some discussion starters:
Feel free to answer just some (or none) of the questions and/or weigh in with your own thoughts. Share links to meta, picspams, and related fanworks, new or old! Self-recs whole-heartedly encouraged.
Scene recap
In the lab, Lin Jing, Zhu Hong and Wang Zheng are watching video of the Black-Cloaked Envoy and Zhao Yunlan on the rooftop in episode 1.
The footage is upside-down because Lin Jing had been openly filming the Shadow Man confrontation with his phone, and when the Envoy appeared, he dropped his hands to his sides. For some reason, it's also slightly distorted. (Maybe large amounts of Dixing energy bend light?) There's a small chimney or vent on the ground in the Envoy's shadow.
Lin Jing says, "Did you see that? This is very bad. Dixing's Black-Cloaked Envoy is said to be ruthless.[1] Why was he lenient towards our boss? He isn't biding time for revenge, is he?"[2]
--
[1] Said by who? Is this something Chu Shuzhi has put around, to intimidate everyone into being respectful? Did it come from Zhao Xinci via Zhao Yunlan or Professor Ouyang? Did Zhu Hong (who was the first to recognise the Longevity Dial, after all) say it based on Yashou lore? Or someone else? Regardless, this is a continuation of setting the Envoy up as a mysterious and fearsome figure.
[2] I love that everyone is fully aware of how rude Zhao Yunlan was to the Envoy, and even though they endorse his attitude (and take their cue from it), some of them are a little nervous about the consequences. They don't yet 100% trust that Zhao Yunlan can navigate these waters.
"I think you are the bad one. Do you think it's a mistake that the name 'Lao Zhao' makes even ghosts apprehensive?" says Zhu Hong.[3]
"Exactly," says Wang Zheng. "You dared to film the Black-Cloaked Envoy when he visited us?"[4]
--
[3]
foxghost says here that in the novel "Zhu Hong will SAY Zhao-chu to his face and refer to him in convos and in her head with utterly foul language, so anything from asshole to bastard to motherfucker to a slur, occasionally 鬼見愁 / guijianchou / even ghosts feel horrid when they see him."(FWIW, Zhu Hong also uses this or similar epithets for Zhao Yunlan when she delivers the laptop to Shen Wei for the "bears" scene in ep 7, under her breath when she's angry with ZYL in ep 9, and in her dream in ep 31.)
But I'm not sure what that reference to Zhao Yunlan implies here. Is she saying he can hold his own even with the Envoy? And how did Zhao Yunlan earn this reputation as an asshole/ badass?
[4] It's not clear why filming the Envoy is disrespectful. Because it was done surreptitiously, and it means Lin Jing didn't pay attention in his presence? Because they're undermining the Envoy's otherworldly mystique? Or just because secretly filming anyone would be rude?
This is the face Chu Shuzhi makes as comes in and overhears them. Really not happy.
Lin Jing shushes Wang Zheng too late. Chu Shuzhi thumps on the desk and lectures them sternly: "The Black-Cloaked Envoy is our hero. He is not gossip fodder."
"I nearly forgot. We have a huge fan of the Black-Cloaked Envoy here," says Wang Zheng, completely uncowed and somewhat teasing.[5]
Lin Jing, being corporeal and a desk jockey, is more easily frightened. "Lao-Chu, don't be mad. I'll delete it now. There, it's deleted."[6]
--
[5] I feel like calling Chu Shuzhi a fan is dismissive of both the Envoy and Chu Shuzhi, at least in Chu Shuzhi's eyes. It suggests Chu Shuzhi's dedication to the Envoy is a matter of personal taste, rather than grounded in objective reasons. But then, the SID don't know that Chu Shuzhi and the Envoy have an ongoing relationship.
[6] No one checks to make sure he's deleted it. And I presume he's already sent a copy to Professor Ouyang.
Chu Shuzhi steps into a more dramatic camera angle. The tinkly piano music of the mysterious and numinous plays. (It's the same music that plays in ep 15 when the incognito Regent is persuading an unsuspecting xiao-Guo to escort him to the SID, and it's used at other times too. I'm not quite sure what it's supposed to signify here, given we already know lao-Chu is Dixingren.)
Chu Shuzhi glares at the others coldly and changes the subject. "Anyone know why we're saddled with the newbie? He's hopelessly stupid and a coward.[7] Does Zhao Yunlan tolerate that?"[8]
--
[7] This is the first time we've seen Chu Shuzhi since xiao-Guo tried to question the Envoy about taking the Shadow Man away, so this complaint is at least partly a reaction to that. Chu Shuzhi does not want to have to look after a kid who's clueless/entitled enough to publicly critique the Envoy!!
[8] Note Chu Shuzhi isn't taking his grievance to Zhao Yunlan -- maybe because Chu Shuzhi's working at the SID on the Envoy's behalf, and he feels like he can't make trouble. Or maybe he just doesn't like talking to Zhao Yunlan because of the casual anti-Dixing bigotry.
"It's exactly the opposite," says Zhu Hong, sounding firm and reasonable.[9] "Despite his outwardly cold attitude, who knows, Lao Zhao might appreciate him. Such an innocent child in these times. Where can we find one like him?"[10]
--
[9] I love that neither Wang Zheng or Zhu Hong is scared of lao-Chu. I don't know if they trust him to be too chivalrous to hurt them, or if being a ghost and a Snake Yashou, respectively, gives them confidence.
[10] Do you think Zhu Hong really believes Zhao Yunlan might think that way? Why doesn't she pass on his theory about xiao-Guo's arrival being the result of nepotism?
Chu Shuzhi is incredulous at this defence.
"Innocent?" He scoffs and complains, "Fine, then why do I have to be the one to babysit him? I'm the only field personnel in the SID. You think I don't have enough trouble to deal with?" He stomps off without waiting for an answer.[11]
--
[11] Oddly, he doesn't go back the way he came; either there's a second exit from the lab or he came in to get something.
The others look at each other and snicker.
Great things about this scene
It's a minor scene, but there are a lot of things to enjoy about it.
- This is one of a small handful of moments that show the early internal dynamics of the SID team, absent Zhao Yunlan. (Another is the start of the popcorn scene.)
- We don't know it yet, at this stage, but all of the characters have secrets: both Lin Jing and Chu Shuzhi are spies, representatives of what will come to be opposing forces (Lin Jing may well have recorded the video for Professor Ouyang's benefit); Wang Zheng has amnesia; and Zhu Hong is badmouthing Zhao Yunlan while secretly being in love with him. For all that, Lin Jing, Wang Zheng and Zhu Hong seem to genuinely like and enjoy each other's company. Meanwhile Chu Shuzhi is on the outside, prickly, frustrated, and getting no sympathy whatsoever.
- We really get to see what Chu Shuzhi is up against. As far as he's concerned, they don't respect him or the Envoy, no one cares about his working conditions, and now he's saddled with hapless xiao-Guo, who has zero skills and speaks before he thinks. Seeing this painful beginning makes the later developments, when lao-Chu and xiao-Guo grow close and the team as a whole coheres into a family, all the sweeter.
- Given the irreverence not just of Zhao Yunlan but the whole SID, it's no wonder Shen Wei didn't want to disclose his identity at first!
- The lab. Check out all the amazing details in the set!
Questions
As well as the various questions above, here are some discussion starters:
- How would you characterise Chu Shuzhi's relationship with the SID as a whole, at this early stage? Does he feel like he's primarily working for the Envoy, or representing the Envoy on the side while working for the SID?
- Is Lin Jing afraid of Chu Shuzhi or abashed at being caught out being irreverent?
- If Da Qing had been there, would he have joined in the giggling? (In the next scene, he reports to Zhao Yunlan who's asleep on the couch that the others are gossiping in the lab.)
- Given there hadn't been many significant cases lately, what do you think the SID's general attitude to the Envoy and Dixingren is, at this time?
- What's your favourite background detail in the lab?
Feel free to answer just some (or none) of the questions and/or weigh in with your own thoughts. Share links to meta, picspams, and related fanworks, new or old! Self-recs whole-heartedly encouraged.
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The footage is upside-down because Lin Jing had been openly filming the Shadow Man confrontation with his phone, and when the Envoy appeared, he dropped his hands to his sides. For some reason, it's also slightly distorted. (Maybe large amounts of Dixing energy bend light?)
I'm laughing that he couldn't rotate the footage, lol. But about the distortion--iirc, later on he tried to listen in to a conversation in ZYL's office and couldn't. DQ commented about ZYL throwing out the bugs, but I wonder if SW's presence doesn't distort electricity somehow? Idk.
[4] It's not clear why filming the Envoy is disrespectful. Because it was done surreptitiously, and it means Lin Jing didn't pay attention in his presence? Because they're undermining the Envoy's otherworldly mystique? Or just because secretly filming anyone would be rude?
My guess is on the last one? And it's more rude when you're doing it to someone like the Envoy?
How would you characterise Chu Shuzhi's relationship with the SID as a whole, at this early stage? Does he feel like he's primarily working for the Envoy, or representing the Envoy on the side while working for the SID?
I definitely think he feels he's working for the Envoy first of all. It seems like he meets with him fairly regularly to report, too? (I wonder what he makes of the Envoy suddenly talking about ZYL every time they meet after ep 1.)
Given there hadn't been many significant cases lately, what do you think the SID's general attitude to the Envoy and Dixingren is, at this time?
I'm not sure, but I'd love to know what others think. The SID and ZYL's approach to Dixingren in early canon are really interesting.
What's your favourite background detail in the lab?
Maybe not favourite, but--what is the thing on the tripod behind LJ?
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I thought that at first, and then I wondered if they'd just been watching the Shadow Man showdown, which was right way up, and hadn't bothered fixing it since then.
but I wonder if SW's presence doesn't distort electricity somehow? Idk.
Maybe! I'm trying to think of evidence either way (other than Shen Wei's uninterest in tech. Maybe he broke the electrics in the car on the way to the mountains? But the other car didn't break down, and you'd think if it was a strong effect, people at the university and at the SID would notice. :-)
And it's more rude when you're doing it to someone like the Envoy?
Yeah, and the fact that they're gossiping over the footage now just emphasises that.
It seems like he meets with him fairly regularly to report, too?
That's true! The fact that they can arrange a meeting with just a glance suggests they have that regular meeting place, at the very least. (What would they have talked about at earlier meetings, though? I can't imagine Shen Wei being very comfortable with just lao-Chu paying tribute to his awesomeness...)
(I wonder what he makes of the Envoy suddenly talking about ZYL every time they meet after ep 1.)
Hee! Though, oh, I think Chu Shuzhi brings him up one time, maybe ep 4 when they're talking about fishing?
Maybe not favourite, but--what is the thing on the tripod behind LJ?
Ooh, I have no idea, and now I'm super-curious, too!
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Yeah, I can't see it as a regular effect because it would be too obvious. Especially with Lao-Chu at the SID! If his presence had an effect on their tech, Lin Jing would know.
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Yeah, agreed. And I think that prior to episode 1, that must have been how they got any Dixingren they caught sent back to Dixing - the Envoy didn't make a personal appearance, but Lao-Chu brought them to him.
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Dixing's Black-Cloaked Envoy is said to be ruthless. Said by who?
I've always wondered this. I like all the possibilities you listed, for different reasons. And there's always the possibility that the rumour came from more than one source, which leads me to wonder just how much is the Black-Cloaked Envoy a subject of conversation among those in the know at this point.
It's not clear why filming the Envoy is disrespectful.
To me it seems like a combination of the fact that secretly filming anyone is rude and Chu Shuzhi basically objecting to anyone looking at the Black-Cloaked Envoy wrong.
I feel like calling Chu Shuzhi a fan is dismissive of both the Envoy and Chu Shuzhi, at least in Chu Shuzhi's eyes.
I think I read this and the entire scene as being more playful than you do. They know enough about Chu Shuzhi to tease him, and his later complaint about Guo Changcheng feels like someone sharing a grievance with his co-workers. Although, of course there is the added layer of Chu Shuzhi being the only Dixingren there, and a spy at that, but all the members of the SID are different kinds of outsiders, from different backgrounds.
I'm the only field personnel in the SID.
I always forget this, and I'm amazed anew when I remember, although those roles seem to be somewhat nebulous at the SID. Also, does that mean poor Guo Changcheng is meant to be a field agent? It sure looks like he's being trained to be one with, um, varying levels of success.
1. How would you characterise Chu Shuzhi's relationship with the SID as a whole, at this early stage? Does he feel like he's primarily working for the Envoy, or representing the Envoy on the side while working for the SID?
I would say that he's primarily working for the Envoy, but now I wonder how often he met with the BEC before all this.
2. Is Lin Jing afraid of Chu Shuzhi or abashed at being caught out being irreverent?
I think he's as afraid of Chu Shuzhi here as he is of Zhao Yunlan deducting his bonus.
5. What's your favourite background detail in the lab?
I like all the light fittings. There's even a lantern-like object in the background.
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Yes, I've been wanting to post about it for ages. It's one of the reasons I suggested this scene discussion series. *g*
And there's always the possibility that the rumour came from more than one source, which leads me to wonder just how much is the Black-Cloaked Envoy a subject of conversation among those in the know at this point.
Right? I mean, Minister Gao never mentions him, that we see, nor does Zhao Xinci that I recall. And at the SID, aside from this, and Zhao Yunlan and Da Qing discussing whether he might be living in Haixing (when ZYL has reason to think so), I don't think we see any other Envoy gossip (afaicr), but maybe this is supposed to represent that.
To me it seems like a combination of the fact that secretly filming anyone is rude and Chu Shuzhi basically objecting to anyone looking at the Black-Cloaked Envoy wrong.
*nodnod* That works for me. :-)
I think I read this and the entire scene as being more playful than you do.
Ha, entirely fair! I do tend to miss the wood for the trees. I can totally see how you'd read it as Chu Shuzhi whining to his workmates in a collegial kind of way -- though otoh, they laugh at him when he's barely walked off, in an in-group kind of way, imo.
I wonder if he hangs out with them much, even at work. Oh, now I'm thinking of the scene in ep 16(?) where Zhu Hong, Lin Jing and lao-Chu are in the lab while Zhao Xinci interrogates xiao-Guo about his loyalty to ZYL. Zhu Hong and Lin Jing talk about Zhu Hong's crush, while lao-Chu sits on the other side of the room, not paying attention at all, but Lin Jing does appeal to him for an opinion. But that's after 14 eps of lao-Chu being drawn into the group. :-)
I wonder how often they have meals together, like the one where Zhao Yunlan announces Shen Wei's consultancy. Did that start before the start of the show?
although those roles seem to be somewhat nebulous at the SID.
I'm not sure. I thought when the cases started popping up, Zhu Hong and the others gradually got pushed into the field, rather than it being generally the case? Da Qing almost certainly does recon, though.
Also, does that mean poor Guo Changcheng is meant to be a field agent? It sure looks like he's being trained to be one with, um, varying levels of success.
Yup. :-D
I would say that he's primarily working for the Envoy, but now I wonder how often he met with the BEC before all this.
Right? And what they discussed! Maybe Chu Shuzhi told him about cases so the Envoy could deal with the offenders before the SID found them. They must have met often enough that they could arrange that first meeting we see with just an exchange of glances and a slight nod.
I think he's as afraid of Chu Shuzhi here as he is of Zhao Yunlan deducting his bonus.
Hee! Good point. It's a similar reaction, isn't it?
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I'd really like to think that they do have meals together before the start of the show, even if it's not that often. They look pretty comfortable with each other during the meal you mentioned.
I thought when the cases started popping up, Zhu Hong and the others gradually got pushed into the field, rather than it being generally the case? Da Qing almost certainly does recon, though.
You're right. Zhu Hong even explicitly complains about not being a field agent in episode 3. And if it was expected for her to do what are essentially field agent tasks, it's unlikely she would have said anything. I was misremembering.
Maybe Chu Shuzhi told him about cases so the Envoy could deal with the offenders before the SID found them.
I like this idea a lot.
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Maybe less official ones, with Da Qing complaining he's hungry, and Zhao Yunlan sending him out for takeout, and the others kind of gathering around like hungry pigeons? Or just more snacks and less food with actual nutritional value? Idk, I like the idea that Guo Changcheng's arrival, combined with the increase in cases and having to pull together to handle the dangers, caused a shift in the team, bringing them closer and making them more like a family and more protective of each other. I guess mostly it's that I want to have seen that develop, rather than it being already firmly established. But I'm not sure there's strong canon evidence either way. (Correct me if I'm wrong! :-)
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I really like the way you've put this. It made me realise that I prefer Guo Changcheng's arrival to work a bit differently. I prefer it as a disruption to an already established close team dynamic, rather than a catalyst for the SID members becoming closer. I like to imagine that the shift in dynamics happens primarily because they change their attitude to their job, not necessarily each other.
As for canon evidence, yeah, I don't think there's a lot either way, but I actually think your preference for the team becoming closer during the course of the show makes more sense as a reading, story-wise.
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Yes, Xiao-Guo is a field agent! See this screencap from episode 7 (38:47):
Lin Jing: 技术支持 - tech support
Wang Zheng: 人事 - human resources
Chu Shuzhi: 外勤 - field personnel
Guo Changcheng: 外勤 - field personnel
I think he's as afraid of Chu Shuzhi here as he is of Zhao Yunlan deducting his bonus.
100% agreed! :D
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That's why I like this scene. In shows perfectly in just a few moments and with a few sentences what relations between members of the SID are, and that Zhu Hong, Wang Zheng and Lin Jing are close enough that they can joke and tease each other.
And, yes, Chu Shuzhi's initial reaction to Guo Changcheng - that grumpiness and irritation, and annoyance makes observing how their relationship changes later so wonderful and rewarding.
How would you characterise Chu Shuzhi's relationship with the SID as a whole, at this early stage? Does he feel like he's primarily working for the Envoy, or representing the Envoy on the side while working for the SID?
At this stage I think that he definitely feels like he's working for the Envoy first, and for the SID second. He probably didn't want or need to become closer to his colleagues then.
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Yes, I love that! I wonder if they hang out outside of work at all, at this stage. (Though of course, Wang Zheng can't easily leave the building, and my head canon is that Lin Jing spends most of his life there, inventing things. :-)
At this stage I think that he definitely feels like he's working for the Envoy first, and for the SID second. He probably didn't want or need to become closer to his colleagues then.
Yeah. He's undercover as a SID employee, but it's really not where his loyalties lie, except by extension.
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I suspect that Chu Shuzhi feels like Lin Jing's baseline default state is disrespectful, whether he's actively filming the Black-Cloaked Envoy or not, and he needs to learn better at least as much as Xiao Guo does; except Lin Jing is a lot less motivated than Xiao Guo to clean up his act other than on a very surface level ;).
I don't think Chu Shuzhi is being actively excluded here--I feel like a considerable amount of mutual teasing is a part of SID life in general, probably deriving from Zhao Yunlan being Zhao Yunlan. (Wang Zheng and Zhu Hong are on Lin Jing's side here, more or less, but they're both highly amused whenever he gets his bonus cancelled, and Chu Shuzhi thinks it's a hoot when Zhu Hong smacks Lin Jing in episode ?16. Also I think the "Good morning, Lord Black Cloak!" thing is a way of initiating Shen Wei into this SID style in some senses...).
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You're probably right. I'm not super comfortable with a lot of the teasing, especially in a workplace context and especially Lin Jing's style of it (like his sniggering at Zhu Hong in her red dress), so I tend to interpret it more literally than it's probably intended, and as I said above, I often can't see the wood for the trees.
And of course, even if it's just the usual SID way, doesn't mean it can't fall flat or be hurtful. This makes me wonder for the first time whether the joking around in the blow-up doll scene would have been taken differently if Wang Zheng hadn't already been upset, or if it would have been over the line either way. Huh.
Also I think the "Good morning, Lord Black Cloak!" thing is a way of initiating Shen Wei into this SID style in some senses...).
Oh, that's a good way of looking at it. A very gentle, Chu Shuzhi-approved version of their usual ragging. ;-)
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Yeah, I think I would find it a lot more difficult to handle if I were there in person myself. On screen it mostly works okay for me--with some exceptions, the blowup doll thing is gross--because a) it's done against a general background of affection rather than mockery or hostility (doll aside, no one hesitates to rush off into the mountains to figure out what's going on with Wang Zheng; everyone stands up for Lin Jing when he's "fired"), and b) it's relatively even-handed--everyone comes in for some teasing at some point, it's not in-group against outsider (although as you say, it probably does feel like that to Chu Shuzhi at this point in time, even if not later).
No one right answer in this case...
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That's true, though I'd add a corollary that they've already been through several serious cases together by episode 9, when they go to the mountains, and much more by the time Lin Jing is fired. Lin Jing, in particular, really comes into his own over time. At the beginning of the face-stealer case, he's all, "This is a waste of money and manpower. Can't we just go home??" and laughing at Zhu Hong's dress-ups in a way that makes me want to thwack him.
Oh, fair point! I think that, doll aside, Wang Zheng probably gets the least of it (and the doll wasn't really about her so much as the doll itself, I think/hope). Do you know if lao-Chu get teased much after this scene? I can't remember.
I guess I'm very aware that it's still another five or six episodes till we get Zhao Yunlan admitting sympathy for the Dixing people's plight (and that just to Shen Wei, in the privacy of his office). Chu Shuzhi has been working with him for how long, watching how he and the SID treat and talk about his compatriots? Kind of hard to take teasing lightly in that environment, I'd think.
As Chu Shuzhi and xiao-Guo bond, and xiao-Guo draws Chu Shuzhi further into the family of the SID, the dynamics definitely shift and trust develops, but before that... (I may be being overly sensitive. That would not be OOC! *g*)
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You make a really good point, though, that however it seems to the others Chu Shuzhi is likely to find the office atmosphere, early on, unfriendly and even micro-aggressive (if that's a word). I can't remember him getting teased later offhand, although there's at least one moment when Zhao Yunlan is obviously shipping him and Xiao Guo :). I really like your point that Xiao Guo has a lot to do with drawing Chu Shuzhi closer to the rest of the SID, bless him.
Also I think the "Good morning, Lord Black Cloak!" thing is a way of initiating Shen Wei into this SID style in some senses...).
>Oh, that's a good way of looking at it. A very gentle, Chu Shuzhi-approved version of their usual ragging. ;-)
meant to comment again on this before but forgot, you see the SID group (minus Lin Jing ;() do something similar at...the end of episode 36? maybe? when they all meet up again in the street outside the SID, and chant "Long time no see!" It's kind of their style.
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Ye-es, though she can hardly show her hurt, can she? (I'm sure you're right, though; I'm just projecting here. :-)
I can't remember him getting teased later offhand, although there's at least one moment when Zhao Yunlan is obviously shipping him and Xiao Guo :).
Oh! And I just realised that in your "Shen Wei apologises to Chu Shuzhi" scene, Zhao Yunlan's reaction is pretty much teasing Chu Shuzhi, isn't it? That "don't forget you work for me!" And Chu Shuzhi just rolls his eyes good-humouredly and walks away. So I think by then they've attained TEAMiness. (Probably the apology from Shen Wei put Chu Shuzhi in a good mood there, too.)
you see the SID group (minus Lin Jing ;() do something similar at...the end of episode 36? maybe? when they all meet up again in the street outside the SID, and chant "Long time no see!" It's kind of their style.
*looks it up* Oh, yeah. I wonder if greeting-in-unison is a common way to show respect, or if it's just a them thing. :-)
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I think this is my take too. I feel like teasing Chu Shuzhi is actually more a way of including him than excluding him. It seems to me like he's the one who persistently regards himself as an outsider and is reluctant to join in (probably for various reasons, including just his personality not being quite as... convivial as most of the others), but they treat him like he's part of the group anyway, partly by regarding him as fair game for ribbing, the same as anyone else. Which doesn't necessarily mean he gets it (yet) or likes it, but I think it's well-intended.
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Yeah, like you say, it can be both well-intended and have an alienating/offending effect. It might well feel like just one more microaggression, in the context of the SID's general attitude to Dixingren, especially given in this instance they're being irreverent about ~the Envoy~.
But that's a good point, that the intention might be to include him. *nodnod*
(Icon love!)
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Haha, too true! :D
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Huh. I can't remember -- are the images distorted when Shen Wei turns into the Envoy in his office, on camera?
Dixing's Black-Cloaked Envoy is said to be ruthless. Said by who?
I think my assumption was that this was a common/popular rumor among Dixingren who escaped to the surface, because presumably the Envoy doesn't advertise the fact that he's usually lenient on them, and probably all they know is that if they're caught using their powers they'll be sent back to Dixing and possibly punished. I may be mostly thinking of that scene in ep. 35 shortly after Shen Wei wakes up and decides to go to the surface, where the two Dixing guys are talking and the one says "But I'm worried. I heard the Black-Cloaked Envoy has awakened and come up here to keep us under control." It would make sense for his reputation among Dixingren on the surface to be as someone who should be avoided and feared.
No one checks to make sure he's deleted it.
XD I wonder about this every time someone "deletes" something on a computer/phone/whatever. Like, guys, you know people can just click on the trash icon and hit "restore," right?
What's your favourite background detail in the lab?
I love the lab. :D You can't see it in the screencaps here, but there's a big circular vent(?) thing in the floor that I'm really curious about. And Lin Jing's chair is also pretty great.
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Yes, that makes a lot of sense to me!
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Oh, yeah, this is entirely plausible. And that rumour trickled out to other people who know about Dixing.
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No, but we only see one still frame. Also, Shen Wei doesn't actually shift into the robes. Maybe it's the display of vast powers that does the distorting? Idk.
I think my assumption was that this was a common/popular rumor among Dixingren who escaped to the surface, because presumably the Envoy doesn't advertise the fact that he's usually lenient on them, and probably all they know is that if they're caught using their powers they'll be sent back to Dixing and possibly punished.
*nodnod* That totally makes sense for Dixingren on the surface -- and maintaining that reputation was probably part of how the Envoy kept the peace, I think? But now I'm wondering if random Dixingren overstayers' attitudes would have been conveyed to the SID that way. Would the SID have taken them seriously? Would they have even listened in the first place?
In ep 15, it's Zhu Hong who explains (to Lin Jing) who the Regent is and that there are three rulers of Dixing, so perhaps some of the SID's Envoy info comes from her, too. And Zhao Xinci must have known about the Envoy and passed on his own Xinci-ish opinions. /o\
And Lin Jing's chair is also pretty great.
Yes!! I love the chair. :-D
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Yeah, that's a good point. I guess I was thinking of how pretty much the only Dixingren the SID would have encountered, apart from Chu Shuzhi, would have been people who would be afraid of the Envoy. But yeah, I can't really picture how actual verbal rumors would get passed from surface-dwelling Dixingren to the SID. I guess Lin Jing might have other sources, thanks to his work at the lab? Or, for that matter, we know how Lin Jing loves his horror stories and folktales, so he may have just heard it somewhere once and decided it was "what people say."
it's Zhu Hong who explains (to Lin Jing) who the Regent is
Oh, yeah, huh. That makes it seem like there isn't actually a briefing about Dixing for SID members. (It doesn't seem like Guo Changcheng gets much of a briefing...)
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Ahhh, now I'm imagining a small Dixing refugee writing group, who all post their thinly veiled Dixing web series about the (thinly veiled) terrifying Envoy! :-D
When I was replying to
That makes it seem like there isn't actually a briefing about Dixing for SID members. (It doesn't seem like Guo Changcheng gets much of a briefing...)
True! Did they think Lin Jing didn't need to know because he was just the lab guy? And that Chu Shuzhi would tell xiao-Guo anything he needed to know? Or is there really a paucity of info. I mean, Zhao Yunlan gloms onto Shen Wei pretty quickly when Shen Wei reveals his expertise, and it's not just because he's devastatingly pretty. ;-)
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I just rewatched this bit, and I don't think she's explaining this to him. She seems to be processing? "So this is the Regent, the third leader of Dixing next to the Black-Cloaked Envoy and the Dijun. Huh." (As in, WTF, this figure is supposed to be a Dixing leader?! Not exactly living up to the Envoy's standards!)
(Btw, I also just noticed that earlier in that scene the Regent claims they don't have beautiful girls in Dixing - I had totally forgotten that. OMG, he's such a sleaze.)
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That is possibly his worst line in the whole show! *shudders*
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Said by who?
I think it's probably partly from Dixingren the SID has apprehended in the past, partly from Zhao Xinci/the department of supervision. Zhao Yunlan and the current SID team haven't met the Envoy before, but they all know about him, so presumably there is some kind of official briefing? And Zhao Yunlan may have heard his father talking about the Envoy, back when Zhao Xinci was SID chief.
I love that everyone is fully aware of how rude Zhao Yunlan was to the Envoy, and even though they endorse his attitude (and take their cue from it), some of them are a little nervous about the consequences. They don't yet 100% trust that Zhao Yunlan can navigate these waters.
Yes! They all know how thin a line Zhao Yunlan is walking, and how easily the Envoy could take offence. I love that.
It's not clear why filming the Envoy is disrespectful.
Really? I mean, filming anyone without their permission is pretty invasive, and doing so in secret is sketchy as hell, regardless of who they are. And with the Envoy, there's the added element of disrespecting a foreign dignitary.
I feel like calling Chu Shuzhi a fan is dismissive of both the Envoy and Chu Shuzhi, at least in Chu Shuzhi's eyes.
I think it's probably meant to be teasing, but Chu Shuzhi is enough of an outsider in the SID still that it comes across as dismissive and belittling.
No one checks to make sure he's deleted it. And I presume he's already sent a copy to Professor Ouyang.
Haha, yeah! No way was that file actually deleted. (I suspect Lao-Chu knows that, too. He just can't do anything about it.)
This is the first time we've seen Chu Shuzhi since xiao-Guo tried to question the Envoy about taking the Shadow Man away, so this complaint is at least partly a reaction to that.
That is a really good point! The "coward" designation doesn't actually fit, overall, but in that scene Xiao-Guo first dares to protest against the Envoy's actions, which Lao-Chu would have hated, but might have been able to respect - but then he hides behind Lao-Chu when the Envoy actually reacts. So, stupid and a coward. *g*
Note Chu Shuzhi isn't taking his grievance to Zhao Yunlan -- maybe because Chu Shuzhi's working at the SID on the Envoy's behalf, and he feels like he can't make trouble. Or maybe he just doesn't like talking to Zhao Yunlan because of the casual anti-Dixing bigotry.
Or maybe he knows Zhao Yunlan wouldn't take him seriously, given how disrespectful he himself was.
We don't know it yet, at this stage, but all of the characters have secrets: both Lin Jing and Chu Shuzhi are spies, representatives of what will come to be opposing forces (Lin Jing may well have recorded the video for Professor Ouyang's benefit); Wang Zheng has amnesia; and Zhu Hong is badmouthing Zhao Yunlan while secretly being in love with him.
Oooh, this is such a good observation!
We really get to see what Chu Shuzhi is up against. As far as he's concerned, they don't respect him or the Envoy, no one cares about his working conditions, and now he's saddled with hapless xiao-Guo, who has zero skills and speaks before he thinks. Seeing this painful beginning makes the later developments, when lao-Chu and xiao-Guo grow close and the team as a whole coheres into a family, all the sweeter.
Yes, I love that too!
How would you characterise Chu Shuzhi's relationship with the SID as a whole, at this early stage? Does he feel like he's primarily working for the Envoy, or representing the Envoy on the side while working for the SID?
I think he's primarily working for the Envoy. He's on friendly terms with the rest of the SID but doesn't quite feel like he's part of it. I think that's for multiple reasons - general unquestioned low-level anti-Dixing sentiment (of the "going to arrest every Dixingren I find" kind), the irreverence and teasing which are very much standard SID communication style but not Lao-Chu's personal style,
Is Lin Jing afraid of Chu Shuzhi or abashed at being caught out being irreverent?
I think
Given there hadn't been many significant cases lately, what do you think the SID's general attitude to the Envoy and Dixingren is, at this time?
My impression is that in addition to the low-level anti-Dixing sentiment I mentioned above, there also seems to be fundamental level of not quite taking it all seriously? They don't seem to have faced any really dangerous Dixingren, so Dixing powers don't seem as threatening as they might be (and so the Envoy perhaps doesn't seem as awe-inspiring as he might be), and they think they're on top of things and can handle it all, which fuels the irreverence.
What's your favourite background detail in the lab?
ALL of it. I want to know what all these objects are, and I have no clue! It's amazing.
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Do you think the SID would have listened to them? I'm not sure. Oh, hey, maybe Chu Shuzhi kept correcting their terrified remarks with how powerful and impressive the Envoy is, and the SID kind of combined the two to get a general impression of austere fearsomeness (to add to the Yashou and official Haixing takes)?
doing so in secret is sketchy as hell, regardless of who they are. And with the Envoy, there's the added element of disrespecting a foreign dignitary.
*rewatches the ep 1 scene* He's openly filming the Shadow Man for science, and then the dramatic entry begins and he turns to capture that on video too, and we can't see the transition but then his hands are at his sides, and his head is bent, and he looks troubled/intimidated. I mean, he probably was aware he was still filming, but this is their first encounter, and they have zero idea what to expect. Given the display of power, I'm not even sure Lin Jing was filming the Envoy so much as the phenomenon of the Envoy, if that makes sense? (I'm just trying to gauge how strongly I should judge him for taking the video, here. *g*)
but then he hides behind Lao-Chu when the Envoy actually reacts.
Thus potentially associating himself with lao-Chu in the Envoy's eyes! Oh no!
I think he's primarily working for the Envoy. He's on friendly terms with the rest of the SID but doesn't quite feel like he's part of it. I think that's for multiple reasons - general unquestioned low-level anti-Dixing sentiment (of the "going to arrest every Dixingren I find" kind), the irreverence and teasing which are very much standard SID communication style but not Lao-Chu's personal style,
Yes, agreed. I was wondering what he would have done if the Envoy's instructions conflicted with Zhao Yunlan's orders, eg, if both of them were saying, "Catch that guy and bring him to me." And yeah, he'd follow the Envoy's instructions, wouldn't he, and make up some kind of excuse/cover story for Zhao Yunlan. (This not-implausible scenario will have got quite a lot more complicated now he has xiao-Guo following him around!)
My impression is that in addition to the low-level anti-Dixing sentiment I mentioned above, there also seems to be fundamental level of not quite taking it all seriously? They don't seem to have faced any really dangerous Dixingren, so Dixing powers don't seem as threatening as they might be (and so the Envoy perhaps doesn't seem as awe-inspiring as he might be), and they think they're on top of things and can handle it all, which fuels the irreverence.
Oh, yes, that really encapsulates the feeling I get. Like, ot1h, Dixingren are seen as dangerous and monstrous, and otoh, they don't quite seem real, and any issues that arise just seem to get magically ironed out, so... *shrugs*
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I don't think it's so much listening to them as drawing conclusions from them obviously being afraid of the Envoy. If they know they're getting handed over to the Envoy when they get caught, and they're terrified of that happening, then clearly this Envoy guy is scary and ruthless and not inclinced to mercy, right? *g*
ETA: Sorry, accidentally hit "post" ...
I mean, he probably was aware he was still filming, but this is their first encounter, and they have zero idea what to expect. Given the display of power, I'm not even sure Lin Jing was filming the Envoy so much as the phenomenon of the Envoy, if that makes sense? (I'm just trying to gauge how strongly I should judge him for taking the video, here. *g*)
You're probably right that he didn't think of it as filming someone, but an interesting phenomenon, but that's kind of dehumanising not better, you know?
But I don't think he specifically set out to film the Envoy, he was just already filming, so he didn't stop. I don't hold it aggainst him myself at all. I just think that it makes perfect sense that Lao-Chu would. *g*
I was wondering what he would have done if the Envoy's instructions conflicted with Zhao Yunlan's orders
LOL, that's not even a competition. The only time I can see him listening to Zhao Yunlan over the Envoy is if it's specifically to protect the Envoy. And even then he'd have to be pretty damn sure of himself.
(This not-implausible scenario will have got quite a lot more complicated now he has xiao-Guo following him around!)
Ha, now I want to see that happening! :D
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In his defence, the Envoy had just gone out of his way to present himself as a force of nature. Maybe Lin Jing's just keeping it rolling in case of more dramatics of scientific interest. :-)
True. It's just, you know, the Envoy placed Chu Shuzhi at the SID as a SID employee, so to some degree, being an employee -- and following Zhao Yunlan's orders -- is his mission. I think that's where I'm coming from. Or is he literally just there as a double agent? (I never thought that.)
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Sure. And I don't think of him as just a double agent, no. But it's only his mission because the Black-Cloaked Envoy says so, for as long as the Black-Cloaked Envoy says so.