Focus on Ya Qing: I drowned myself in darkness

[trobadora]

Ya Qing: Crow Tribe chief, would-be revitaliser of the Yashou, villain - and the only one who doesn't wind up dead one way or another. For the majority of the drama she's working against the heroes, but turns around at the end and changes sides. For me, she's one of the most fascinating side characters in the drama - and and of course it doesn't help that she's gorgeous! All in black, with feathers and veil and a fantastic pair of gloves, she definitely left an impression on me. Not to mention her flair for the dramatic - who else can eat an apple quite as aggressively as she does when talking to Zhu Jiu? *g*



Note: I know nothing about her in the novel - I'm not even sure she exists there. (Can anyone confirm/add more info?)

Revitalising the Yashou: the end justifies the means

From her first appearance, Ya Qing makes it clear that everything she's doing is in service of one goal: revitalising the Yashou tribes. She doesn't seem to hate humans the way Zhu Jiu does - or at least, the way she talks about Dong Nan doesn't sound like it; she sounds more bemused by it than disapproving:

Ya Qing: "I watched Dong Nan grow up. She was eccentric from childhood. Rather than rise with the Yashou she wanted to live like a human." (episode 26)

But she's deeply dissatisfied with the current state of affairs. The drama isn't very explicit on what exactly the source of her dissatisfaction is, but my interpretation is that she feels her people are being pushed further and further back while humanity advances - that as human population grows and civilisation expands, there's less and less space for the Yashou to live independently.

And from her perspective, both the isolationist Snake Tribe and the intensely non-interventionist Flower Tribe are utterly useless in combatting this state of affairs. In addition, Fourth Uncle mentions "decades of disintegration" among the Yashou (in episode 21). So it's to Ye Zun that she's turned in order to gain the power she believes she'll need.

We don't know how far back this goes. Ying Chun, who knew her from childhood, says she's changed - and now she's fully dedicated to her goal, willing to do anything from murder to breaking the treaty that forbids the three races from interfering in each other's affairs:

Ya Qing: "Following those old rules, the Yashou will never be revitalized." (episode 13)

She works with Zhu Jiu and later with Wang Xiangyang, but but doesn't seem to think highly of either of them. She does also talk directly to Ye Zun, though, addresses him as "boss", and kneels to him. She follows his plans, and works to free him, all because she believes it'll aid her own goals. She's walking into her villainy with eyes open.

And she's not acting alone - her tribe is with her. Her Crows play a big part in keeping an eye on events, spying and delivering information, and when Shen Wei and Zhao Yunlan confront some Crow Tribe men, they're firm in their support of their leader:

Crow: "Elder Ya Qing works hard towards the revival of the Crow Tribe. We believe in her." (episode 28)

For a long time, she holds on to the belief that working for Ye Zun will gain her what she wants - and that that goal justifies any means:

Ya Qing: "As long as the Yashou become strong again, I'm making the right choice." (episode 30)

Until, of course, she has to realise she's chosen the wrong path.

Turning back: not too late

Ya Qing, unlike the other villains with the exception of Sha Ya, is seen having doubts right from the start. When Ying Chun confronts her in episode 13 and begs her to reconsider, she's visibly affected, and her clenched fist is shaking when she says "It's too late." And when she's talking directly to Ye Zun in episode 30, Ya Qing thinks it again: "I can't turn back any more." But it's not in fact too late, even if her turning point doesn't come until she's holding the sacred branch and it fails to sprout.

Ya Qing: "Ancestors of the Yashou Tribes, if you recognize my efforts to revitalize the Yashou Tribes, please make this Sacred Branch sprout! - How is that possible? In order to revitalize the Yashou tribes, I even drowned myself in darkness. Is even that not enough?" (episode 37)

Until that moment, even though she's turned away from Ye Zun and his Dixingren after realising they are only using her, she truly seems to still believe her efforts were correct and will be rewarded. But of course Da Qing is right when he tells her the problem isn't that she didn't do enough - what she did was just fundamentally wrong from the get-go. Not only has her end failed to justify its means - all her efforts did nothing to further her goals, and instead led to near-disaster as she aided Ye Zun who's about to bring destruction on them all.

Her change of sides, when it comes, is decisive. Soon we see her fighting side by side with the Snake and Flower Tribe leaders and Zhao Xinci/Zhang Shi, and when offered the opportunity to retreat, she refuses and takes responsibility:

Ya Qing: "I have to fix the problems I caused myself." (episode 39)

And the last image we see of her is in a meeting with the other Yashou leaders, everyone laughing/smiling, her included. Of the villains, she's the only one who gets to change her mind and live, ending up in a good place. Thematically speaking I think that's pretty important - showing at least one instance where it's not only not too late to turn back, but where that change of heart also doesn't equal death. Where turning back means living with the consequences of her choices, and actually having to try and make up for them. Personally, that's one reason why I appreciate Ya Qing's story so much.)

Convictions: loyalty, dignity, gratitude

Ya Qing is very "end justifies the means", yes - but that's not all we know about her convictions.

• She's unhappy with Zhu Jiu's fanaticism, and appalled when Zhu Jiu won't support Bao Laosan even though they're both Dixingren. Of course, on the other hand, she does kill Jia-ge, the Snake Tribe boy who's guarding the entrance to the restricted area, and she threatens Zhu Hong's life, even though they are Yashou too. But loyalty is an important part of her worldview. As she says to Sha Ya:
  
  Ya Qing: "Now you've chosen your side, you should be loyal for life." (episode 28)
  
  Not that it turns out to work like that for her - when it turns out her loyalty isn't returned, she eventually does turn away from Ye Zun.


• Ya Qing also has limits to what she's willing to let someone suffer, as we discover with Kong Jing. He's been begging to die so he won't hurt anyone any more, and she kills him even though that will will undo the personality virus and revert the SID people to normal, aiding her enemies:
  
  Ya Qing: "It wasn't necessary to destroy his last shred of dignity." (episode 25)
  
  I think it's also significant that we see her capable of showing kindness here, even if it takes this form - it's more than we see from Zhu Jiu, Wang Xiangyang or Ye Zun.


• She is willing and able to be grateful to an enemy, to the point of offering a boon when Guo Changcheng is there for Dong Nan as she dies:
  
  Ya Qing: "We are opposing forces, but I still want to thank you for being with her in these last moments."
  
  She is clearly fond of Dong Nan, and grateful Guo Changcheng could make her smile in her final days. She also seems indulgent of Dong Nan's eccentric behaviour, wanting to "live like a human" (episode 26) - she's not all "us versus them", the way Zhu Jiu is, and she's not isolationist the way the Snake Tribe seems to be. She must be well versed in human technology, given that she knows how to use Cong Bo's computer to make all the SID info public, which also speaks to her not being closed off from the modern human world.

Some questions:

1. How do you think Ya Qing ended up working for Ye Zun? Given her low attitude towards Zhu Jiu - in episode 13 she calls him a psycho and tells him she wouldn't give him the time of day if it wasn't for Ye Zun's orders - I doubt it was via Zhu Jiu ...


2. I mentioned my own interpretation above, but how do you see Ya Qing's urgent desire to revitalise the Yashou - what's the cause of her dissatisfaction, and what other options could have been open to her?


3. Outside of the near disastrous results, do you think Ya Qing regrets any of what she did? She's been, not merrily, but unapologetically, aiding and contributing in murder and mayhem left and right - and what she says in episode 37 makes it clear she knows that was pretty damn dark. But does she feel any guilt over it, or only over buying into what Ye Zun was selling?


4. Several years ago (the subtitles say "decades", but the Chinese only has 这么多年 "so many years"), the three leaders of the three Yashou tribes agreed to leave the seat of the High Chief empty:
   
   Fourth Uncle: "We haven't had a High Chief for so many years. At the time, the three of us decided for our three tribes to take time out from worldly things." (episode 19)
   
   (休养生息 means "recuperate and build up strength", according to Baidu.)
   
   Did Ya Qing agree because she'd already given up on the Yashou tribes working together to revitalise them? Was that the last straw? Or did the issue not feel quite as urgent at the time?


5. Relatedly - did Qing have her eye on the position of High Chief prior to the scene where she agrees to the election? She seems very convinced the ancestors would approve of her actions, but my own impression was that she'd actually given up on the Yashou alliance as a unified body until the subject of an election was brought up. What do you think?


6. Given that her tribe willingly followed her, and clearly bought into her "revitalising the Yashou by any means" strategy - how do you think they're reacting to her turnaround, and the realisation she's nearly led them right into causing the end of the world? Will she have to work hard to convince them to continue following her, or will they continue to trust her regardless?


7. And speaking of the future: how will Ya Qing deal with Zhu Hong becoming High Chief? Will she genuinely be willing to listen to Zhu Hong? Will she try and gain Zhu Hong's trust, or will she not care? (Or will she merely pretend to not care? *g*)


8. Ya Qing's interactions with Ying Chun are very slashy, with Ying Chun runs after her, shouting "Qing-jie!", appealing to her better self and their former closeness, and Ya Qing clearly regretting the loss even as she is the one to turn away. But I also think the intersection of Zhu Hong's coming into her own as Yashou Chief with the aftermath of Ya Qing's terrible choices would make for an amazing dynamic - and Ya Qing might be just Zhu Hong's type, with her superficial cockiness and sincere intentions underneath, no matter how misguided. Who do you ship Ya Qing with, if anyone?

Some links

Fanfic

hidden costs by spookykingdomstarlight
An introspective Ya Qing piece about how she ended up on Ye Zun's side.

Protect your heart, protect your head by china_shop
This is Zhu Hong-focused gen, but Ya Qing has an excellent role in it, with a great use of the show's theme of misdirected blame.

The Marriage of Lightning and the Lake by Branch
Ya Qing/Zhu Hong. I haven't read this since it's set in a novel fusion AU, which isn't my thing, But I skimmed it before linking it here, and it looks so good, OMG.

You Once Were, You Someday Will Be, You Are Now by wrote_and_writ
Zhu Hong and Ya Qing, pre-series.

Welcome, Spring by ExtraPenguin
A sweet Ya Qing/Ying Chun scene.

And my own: Listen (it's late, it's late, but listen) by Trobadora
Ya Qing/Ying Chun set during episodes 39/40, with Yashou politics.

Meta

There's some interesting discussion about the Crow tribe in general, and Ya Qing in particular, in the Dong Nan discussion post.

Fanart

I've only found one piece of artwork, but it's gorgeous:

Ya Qing art by abyss_valkyrie

Some icons

I wasn't able to find many - anyone have more? These are from the Guardian character battle and from here:

abyss_valkyrie	china_shop	naye

So - come and talk about Ya Qing! Share links to meta, picspams, and related fanworks, new or old! Self-recs whole-heartedly encouraged. Basically, this is the place for anything you want to say or link to about Ya Qing.

Important: If you're commenting with meta/discussion/thoughts, please say whether you're coming from a novel perspective, a drama perspective, or a blend of the two, so we don't end up talking past each other. Thanks!

Comments

[extrapenguin]

How do you think Ya Qing ended up working for Ye Zun? Given her low attitude towards Zhu Jiu - in episode 13 she calls him a psycho and tells him she wouldn't give him the time of day if it wasn't for Ye Zun's orders - I doubt it was via Zhu Jiu ...
I'm pretty sure Zhu Jiu recruited her, since he rubs her nose in the fact that the boss directly recruited him but not her at one point. Perhaps it started off better, but Zhu Jiu grew more arrogant as they started seeing Hallows and Ya Qing ran out of ability to tolerate his shit?

Outside of the near disastrous results, do you think Ya Qing regrets any of what she did?
Ya Qing doesn't seem to be the guilt type – she'd shrug and move on, instead of being consumed by regret. (This is apparently also in line with how IRL birds work.)

As for ships, well, Ying Chun is a free space, and everyone looks good with Zhu Hong. *g* I think that's the extent of the canon characters I ship her with, though a pragmatic no-nonsense OFC would work as well.

(Thank you for the rec!)

[trobadora]

I'm pretty sure Zhu Jiu recruited her, since he rubs her nose in the fact that the boss directly recruited him but not her at one point.

Oh! I'd forgotten that - do you remember where it happens?

Perhaps it started off better, but Zhu Jiu grew more arrogant as they started seeing Hallows and Ya Qing ran out of ability to tolerate his shit?

Maybe! In episode 13 they must have been working together for some time, even if it's the first time we see her.

Ya Qing doesn't seem to be the guilt type – she'd shrug and move on, instead of being consumed by regret. (This is apparently also in line with how IRL birds work.)

... Are there IRL animals that are consumed by regret? (I agree with you about Ya Qing. Above all she strikes me as supremely pragmatic.)

[extrapenguin]

Oh! I'd forgotten that - do you remember where it happens?
It might be the place where we get the first flashback to Zhu Jiu's backstory? Or sometime else in the warehouse chatting.

... Are there IRL animals that are consumed by regret? (I agree with you about Ya Qing. Above all she strikes me as supremely pragmatic.)
Okay, well, not regret, but birds are surprisingly non-grudgy compared to other creatures of equivalent intelligence. If it's not murdertime, then whatever, even if it was murdertime yesterday.

[tinny]

I have made three Ya Qing icons:



As to novel references, the only thing I remember about the crow fairies is that their leader is female. They never get a name, afaik. They appear in chapter 63/64/65 at the Fairy Market.

Here's the relevant quote that describes them:

The leader of the Crow Tribe is a woman, but in this tribe, apart from the half-fairies, all members are of small stature, with big noses and wrinkled faces. One simply cannot tell whether they are young or old, pretty or ugly.

Her eyes are slanted and it is hard to tell whether she is impassively looking at Zhao Yunlan or simply glancing in his general direction. Her dark eyes sparkle with a subtle light.

[trobadora]

Icons! Thank you so much for linking them - I went looking through yours for a bit but couldn't find any. I love the colour in the third one especially.

And that's interesting about the novel - so Ya Qing and everything about her was entirely written for the drama! No wonder it all resonates so beautifully with the drama's themes. :D

[sakana17]

This is a great post! Ya Qing is such an interesting character and I always wanted to know more about her. (But speculating is fun, too!) I was glad to see her at the end, seemingly reconciled with the other Yashou leaders. I like to think she and they really did reconcile.

Will she have to work hard to convince them to continue following her, or will they continue to trust her regardless?

Her Crow Tribe followers always seemed loyal to her and her goal of revitalizing the Yashou. I felt they would continue to trust her, especially if the Yashou tribes are now working together in ways they weren't before, even though she had made bad choices. But she admitted she did, and took responsibility for them in that she was willing to fight side by side with the other Yashou at the end, and risk her life.

There's a lot of research about the intelligence of crows and the corvid family of birds they belong to, but one of the most fascinating ones I've read about is a study of crows that remembered humans who fed them and humans perceived as threats. Here's a quote from an article about the study:
[The crows] need only one experience to form a long-lasting memory of who can be trusted and who can't--essential knowledge when you're dealing with humans who might either feed you or shoot you. Crows also share information, allowing individuals to adapt to rapid environmental changes much faster than if they learned on their own.
This reminded me of Ya Qing, and made think about why she allied with Ye Zun. One idea I had was that humans had done/been doing harmful things to the Yashou over time (such as destroying Yashou lands), intentionally or not, and Ya Qing wanted to be a leader who pushed back or fought back. Since the other Yashou tribes were not going to get involved or back her up, she felt she'd found an effective ally in Ye Zun. Maybe kind of a "the enemy of my enemy is a friend" situation. Her interactions with Zhu Jiu must've been better in the past. But it's interesting to think how Ye Zun might have appeared to Ya Qing. I felt that as time went on, she was more concerned that Ye Zun's endgame might not align with hers, but she remained loyal until it was clear she couldn't trust him.

Also: Yes, Ya Qing's outfit is stunning!

[trobadora]

Thank you! I think of something new every time I rewatch her parts ...

I felt they would continue to trust her, especially if the Yashou tribes are now working together in ways they weren't before, even though she had made bad choices. But she admitted she did, and took responsibility for them in that she was willing to fight side by side with the other Yashou at the end, and risk her life.

I feel the same way! Both because in a bizarre and roundabout way, Ya Qing did make a difference, and because she did admit her mistakes. But I also think it would totally make sense if at least some of her people went, "wait, how do we know the next thing you want us to do isn't going to end up like that again?" and started challenging her more.

Crows are so fascinating! And that definitely works as a parallel for Ya Qing and her tribe. And "the enemy of my enemy" really does fit with her approach.

I felt that as time went on, she was more concerned that Ye Zun's endgame might not align with hers, but she remained loyal until it was clear she couldn't trust him.

Yeah, that's my impression too. She did see the warning signs, but kept believing/hoping for the best until she couldn't. Does that mean that in her own way, she's actually an optimist? *g*

Also, speaking of warning signs - from a trope POV it's kind of hilarious that she's talking to a giant pile of black swirly stuff with glowing eyes without recognising it's evil, but I love that in-universe it totally makes sense with black energy. Yashou use black energy to transform - of course they don't see it as bad!

[trobadora]

Adding this here for findability:

a) I have a Ya Qing picspam here.

b) Forgot to mention Ya Qing addresses Ye Zun with the formal you rather than the normal/informal one - 您 nín rather than 你 nǐ. See for example episode 31, 11:53:

[china_shop]

This is such a great post, and I love the screencaps you've chosen as well! (And thanks for the rec! ♥!)

She doesn't seem to hate humans the way Zhu Jiu does

She doesn't openly despite them, but I don't think she has warm feelings towards them either. In that same conversation, she says to Guo Changcheng, "Humans after all aren’t all selfish, coldblooded animals" (ep 25, 40:47), as if he exceeded her expectations just by being kind. It would be fascinating to know which other humans she's had dealings with -- particularly given the Yashou seem very aware of their history, so she must know they were once allies.

Wrt what she says about Dong Nan, maybe she distinguishes between hanging out with humans (bad) versus being interested in how humans live (eccentric, but okay)?

I mentioned my own interpretation above, but how do you see Ya Qing's urgent desire to revitalise the Yashou - what's the cause of her dissatisfaction, and what other options could have been open to her?

I agree with you on the cause of her dissatisfaction. And there don't seem to be any particular ties between the Envoy and the Yashou leaders, pre-canon. She could have tried approaching the SID, possibly via Zhu Hong, but I doubt the SID has the clout to a difference to things that would affect the Crows.

But does she feel any guilt over it, or only over buying into what Ye Zun was selling?

I don't see any guilt in her -- which I think is one of the reasons I don't really connect with her. She behaves more like a military leader than a ZYL-style team leader. Which might be a Yashou thing. Neither of the other tribe leaders seem very interested in whether their tribes people agree with their political stances either.

I'd like to have seen her make recompense or at least apologise to Jia-ge's family, in fic if not in the show.

Given that her tribe willingly followed her, and clearly bought into her "revitalising the Yashou by any means" strategy - how do you think they're reacting to her turnaround, and the realisation she's nearly led them right into causing the end of the world? Will she have to work hard to convince them to continue following her, or will they continue to trust her regardless?

I think most of them will continue to trust and follow her. There might be one or two who get uppity and want to challenge her leadership because of her change of heart, but I imagine the others would put them in their place. (It's coming up on election season here, so... I might be projecting. *g*)

Who do you ship Ya Qing with, if anyone?

I enjoyed your Ya Qing/Ying Chun fic very much, and it sold me on that ship. And I've actually been thinking, as I've been putting my Fourth Uncle post together, that Ya Qing, Ying Chun and Zhu Hong's father might have been in a similar kind of closeknit, complicated triangle to Sha Ya, Hua Yuzhu and Gu Ban. And that when Zhu Hong's father left to live with the humans, maybe Ya Qing went with him for a while and that's when she picked up some of her computer skills. Maybe his premature death (or his forming a relationship with a human woman?) was what soured her on humans in general? Entirely my fancy, but I like the idea of it.

She must be well versed in human technology, given that she knows how to use Cong Bo's computer to make all the SID info public, which also speaks to her not being closed off from the modern human world.

My other thought about that was that it could be a skill bestowed by the Merit Brush before Wang Xiangyang died, in anticipation of this next move. It could have been part of what sapped his life force? Idk.


Randomly, I like how in ep 19, when Fourth Uncle and Ying Chun are trying to detain Ya Qing, they try political persuasion and it doesn't work, and then Fourth Uncle convinces her to hang out with them because it's the Reunion Festival, and that's when she stops trying to leave. She clearly still has warm feelings for them, even if she's put herself at odds with them.

[trobadora]

She doesn't openly despite them, but I don't think she has warm feelings towards them either. In that same conversation, she says to Guo Changcheng, "Humans after all aren’t all selfish, coldblooded animals" (ep 25, 40:47), as if he exceeded her expectations just by being kind. It would be fascinating to know which other humans she's had dealings with -- particularly given the Yashou seem very aware of their history, so she must know they were once allies.

Agreed, she doesn't think well of humans, just not to the degree Zhu Jiu does. She's not a fanatic. And she is willing to recognise it when someone doesn't act as she expected - she's not so clouded in her own sense of purpose as to become blind to reality.

I do wonder what her actual interactions with humans may have been like, and under what circumstances she acquired her computer knowledge!

Wrt what she says about Dong Nan, maybe she distinguishes between hanging out with humans (bad) versus being interested in how humans live (eccentric, but okay)?

Or she thinks it's okay if the occasional eccentric wants to do that kind of thing, especially if it's someone who's ill and doesn't have long to live, but it's a different matter under other circumstances?

And there don't seem to be any particular ties between the Envoy and the Yashou leaders, pre-canon.

Yes! And the Yashou don't seem to have diplomatic ties with humans either. That's probably by design since the Yashou wanted to be left alone - but it didn't serve any of them in the end. I hope that post-series all that can be improved - long-term and not just while Zhu Hong is at the helm.

I don't see any guilt in her -- which I think is one of the reasons I don't really connect with her. She behaves more like a military leader than a ZYL-style team leader. Which might be a Yashou thing. Neither of the other tribe leaders seem very interested in whether their tribes people agree with their political stances either.

Good point about the other Yashou leaders! They don't seem to be very democratic societies, no. And I agree that guilt isn't her thing, but she does recognise her mistake and take responsibility for fixing it. Personally I find actions more meaningful than feelings when it comes to this kind of thing, if that makes sense to you.

We really only get a tiny glimpse of her on the show after the fighting is done, and we have so little fic about her, but I agree, her taking further steps to make recompense, including for Jia-ge, would be great to see.

I enjoyed your Ya Qing/Ying Chun fic very much, and it sold me on that ship.

Hee! Thank you. If I ever end up writing Ya Qing/Zhu Hong, maybe I'll be able to convince you of that, too?

And I've actually been thinking, as I've been putting my Fourth Uncle post together, that Ya Qing, Ying Chun and Zhu Hong's father might have been in a similar kind of closeknit, complicated triangle to Sha Ya, Hua Yuzhu and Gu Ban. And that when Zhu Hong's father left to live with the humans, maybe Ya Qing went with him for a while and that's when she picked up some of her computer skills. Maybe his premature death (or his forming a relationship with a human woman?) was what soured her on humans in general? Entirely my fancy, but I like the idea of it.

That's a fascinating idea! I would love to see that in fanfic.

My other thought about that was that it could be a skill bestowed by the Merit Brush before Wang Xiangyang died, in anticipation of this next move.

Can the Merit Brush bestow mundane skills? I wouldn't have thought so, but I may be forgetting something ...

Randomly, I like how in ep 19, when Fourth Uncle and Ying Chun are trying to detain Ya Qing, they try political persuasion and it doesn't work, and then Fourth Uncle convinces her to hang out with them because it's the Reunion Festival, and that's when she stops trying to leave. She clearly still has warm feelings for them, even if she's put herself at odds with them.

Yes! And it's not just Ying Chun. She doesn't want to be on the outs with them, but she's convinced she's doing the best for all of them, so she'll do it. She hasn't turned away from them because she stopped caring.

[china_shop]

Or she thinks it's okay if the occasional eccentric wants to do that kind of thing, especially if it's someone who's ill and doesn't have long to live, but it's a different matter under other circumstances?

Maybe! I wonder how she would have reacted if one of her Crow soldiers had expressed an interest.

And I agree that guilt isn't her thing, but she does recognise her mistake and take responsibility for fixing it. Personally I find actions more meaningful than feelings when it comes to this kind of thing, if that makes sense to you.

It does, but I kind of need both. I don't like people who wallow in guilt instead of doing something about it, but I do prefer some indication of remorse. But that's just me. :-)

If I ever end up writing Ya Qing/Zhu Hong, maybe I'll be able to convince you of that, too?

My kneejerk reaction is that it's the opposite of my kind of ship, but... I like your writing, so who knows?

Can the Merit Brush bestow mundane skills? I wouldn't have thought so, but I may be forgetting something ...

Oh, good point. Scratch that theory, then.

[china_shop]

I’ve been thinking about when the Yashou leaders discovered Shen Wei is the Envoy, and that he’s actively involved in the conflict. Shen Wei had to introduce himself to Ying Chun; Fourth Uncle recognised him on sight (because they’d met before? I just checked, and he starts, “Aren’t you the Black--?” Shen Wei interrupts and introduces himself as SID consultant Shen Wei, and Fourth Uncle then calls him “Shen Daren.” So maybe Ying Chun told Fourth Uncle?); but when did Ya Qing find out? Do you think Zhu Jiu told her, or did she learn from her own spying/scouting? And when she found out, did it give her pause? If the Yashou still remember and revere Fu You, surely they have a lot of respect for the Envoy, too!

[trobadora]

Oooh, cool questions!

I imagine Ya Qing heard it from Zhu Jiu going on a lengthy rant about the evils of the Envoy, after Zhu Jiu found out. Zhu Jiu really hates him, after all. *g* But she could also have discovered it on her own, from spying, and would likely have sooner or later if she hadn't known already.

Ying Chun and Fourth Uncle both are very respectful towards Shen Wei when they first meet him on screen, and it definitely gave me the impression the Yashou hold him in high regard. As for Ya Qing, she did to some extent buy into Ye Zun's and Zhu Jiu's revolutionary spiel about wanting things to be better, and they definitely would have painted Shen Wei in a bad light. Either she believed that and dismissed traditional Yashou attitudes based on that, or if not, she likely extrapolated from the Envoy enforcing the treaty she had already decided was holding the Yashou back. She likely thought of the Envoy as someone who's actually invested in the status quo - and, like the Snake and Flower tribes, maybe well-intentioned but still wrong.

[china_shop]

Do we know when she joined up with Zhu Jiu/Team Ye Zun? Was she with him from the start? I remember there was a crow in the web novelist case, but I can't recall one before then.

But she could also have discovered it on her own, from spying, and would likely have sooner or later if she hadn't known already.

*nodnod* That's what I figured. I'd love to read fic of her finding out, however she does...

or if not, she likely extrapolated from the Envoy enforcing the treaty she had already decided was holding the Yashou back. She likely thought of the Envoy as someone who's actually invested in the status quo - and, like the Snake and Flower tribes, maybe well-intentioned but still wrong.

And she's not wrong, there. Shen Wei doesn't give any indication of being up for revolution (as we've discussed elsewhere, that's not necessarily a bad thing), and the Yashou are not his priority... They're pretty much an afterthought for most humans and most Dixingren. :-/

[trobadora]

Hm. The webnovelist case is the first I can remember, too.

I'd love to read Ya Qing finding out too! I'd love to read fic about everyone finding out.

(I want a whole fest dedicated only to fic/art about people finding out! *g*)

They're pretty much an afterthought for most humans and most Dixingren. :-/

True, and given that the Yashou are for the most part deliberately keeping away, they can't even be blamed for that.

There really should have been proper diplomatic contact between all of them.

[china_shop]

(I want a whole fest dedicated only to fic/art about people finding out! *g*)

The Guardian Envoy Reveal Fest! :D :D :D

There really should have been proper diplomatic contact between all of them.

LOL! Now I'm imagining the Yashou tribe leaders, the Regent and Zhao Xinci all sitting around a conference table at the DoS, and some huffiness about the Yashou having three representatives, and them trying to explain that they don't have a High Chief atm... *g*

[trobadora]

The Guardian Envoy Reveal Fest! :D :D :D

The Great Envoy Reveal Party! :p

And haha, yeah, that would he hilarious.

[china_shop]

The Regent and Zhao Xinci might team up just out of self-defence! /o\

The Great Envoy Reveal Party! :p

Do it! There hasn't been a fest in weeks! ;-)

[trobadora]

I don't have time right now, but I'll keep it in mind!