trobadora: (Wang Zheng - *faints*)
trobadora ([personal profile] trobadora) wrote in [community profile] sid_guardian2020-04-18 05:42 pm

Focus on Wang Zheng: I know your past

I know nothing about Wang Zheng in the novel, other than that she's presumably an actual ghost rather than an energy being, so this is strictly about the drama version of our ghostly SID member/Hanga princess:

Princess Ge Lan amnesiac Wang Zheng being found SID personnel


"Wang Zheng, deduct his bonus!" - The Present


When we meet her, she's very much living in the modern world, and a part of the SID crew: she uses a computer, eats popcorn, gossips with Zhu Hong and Lin Jing, teases Chu Shuzhi about being an Envoy fanboy. But she's been in the present for at most three years: Zhao Yunlan and Da Qing found her in the mountains outside the city, without any memories, and we know everyone currently in the SID apart from Da Qing joined after Zhao Yunlan became chief.

Now she's the SID's human resources person - this cap identifies Wang Zheng's position as "人事", and she's the one always called upon to deduct Lin Jing's bonus - but she also seems to do general secretarial work like answering the phone. None of which she would have known the first thing about when she woke up in the present! I wonder if she came by her SID job in the same way Sang Zan did: by Zhao Yunlan deciding that since she clearly had no other place in the present, she needed an official one with the SID, and handing her the first not-already-taken job he could think of. *g*

She also has a weird sense of humour sometimes - in episode 30, when everyone's upset that Zhao Yunlan is kicking Lin Jing out, she says Lin Jing has been hard-working and did nothing wrong - except for being late 99 times, leaving early 44 times, being absent 18 times, and taking naps 27 times!


"I want to go home." - Regained memories


anonymous letter Wang Zheng fainted Wang Zheng/pillar


When she regains her memory, she's immediately ready to drop everything and go back for Sang Zan: "Thank you for taking care of me all this time. I will leave the SID. There is something I have to do."

Of course Zhao Yunlan tells her the SID will help her, and she's happy not to be losing her friends - but she didn't hesitate in her decision, and didn't even think to ask for help. Wang Zheng, you're fitting right in with the rest of them!

And when the disembodied spirits of her tribe are after her, she's immediately ready to meet them on her own. Lin Jing and Shen Wei protect her - but that doesn't stop her: she drugs everyone to be able to go out on her own and face what she must.

Shen Wei: "I think she does not mean to betray you, but is planning to sacrifice herself to ensure our safety."

Yep, definitely fitting right in with this bunch of self-sacrificial, must-shoulder-everything-alone heroes who are learning to be a family. *g*


"You died one hundred years and seven months ago." - Ge Lan in the Past


Princess Ge Lan Ge Lan grieving Ge Lan/Sang Zan tension


Ge Lan is sheltered and optimistic: she's completely baffled by the bad things Sang Zan says about her brother and father, but willing to listen to him. Even after the slave rebellion has started, she's still hoping to get Sang Zan and her father talking. Instead, Sang Zan kills her father and her brother - because they had killed Sang Zan's sister and brother.

Wang Zheng comments on the irony of the person who killed her father and brother becoming the only one who can protect her, and we see the strain on them in the flashbacks. The tension only breaks when Sang Zan asks her to run away with him. But of course she's executed before they can.

Sang Zan's attempt to revive her with the Mountain-River Awl leaves her as a shapeless energy being, and she watches him as he takes revenge, as the tribe turns against him, as as he uses the Awl and rocks fall break open and everyone dies.


"I waited for you for a hundred years." - Parallels


Ge Lan/Sang Zan romantic Wang Zheng reaching out Wang Zheng/Sang Zan dancing


The drama uses the Wang Zheng/Sang Zan relationship for parallels with Shen Wei/Zhao Yunlan in a lot of ways:
  • the themes of separation and reunion, remembering/not remembering, not letting go of each other in life and death

  • the drama's ending theme, which is all about lovers being separated - it's obviously about the drama's main relationship, but it's used as a Wang Zheng/Sang Zan song both in the flashbacks and in a very OTT-romantic scene in the present

  • Wang Zheng's "I waited for you for a hundred years" echoes Shen Wei's "I searched for you for ten thousand years":

    SW: 我找了你一万年 - wǒ zhǎole nǐ yī wàn nián
    WZ: 我等了你一百年 - wǒ děngle nǐ yī bǎi nián

And while the separation between Wang Zheng and Sang Zan can be mapped onto the ten thousand years between YOHE and the present, it can also be mapped onto the separation happening at the end of the drama. After all, Ge Lan was executed and buried - which means "they literally died, and that wasn't the end of their story" is already explicitly part of the show. ♥


Some questions:

  1. Once she regains her memories, do you think she thinks of herself as Wang Zheng, or as Ge Lan? Does it change after she returns to the SID with Sang Zan?

  2. Despite the tension between them before Ge Lan died, and everything she watched Sang Zan do, when they're reunited, they seem a cute, happy, conflict-free couple. Why do you think that is?

  3. Does Wang Zheng go into the mountain of her own accord, or is she being manipulated by Zhu Jiu? Rewatching, when she's going into the mountain Wang Zheng looks almost like she's in a trance. Is she going entirely of her own accord, or is she being manipulated by Zhu Jiu somehow?

  4. Disembodied Ge Lan was present and aware after her death. Do you think she had any awareness between Sang Zan being empillared, and waking up memoryless? Or did she skip the time entirely?

  5. In the past, there was always a significant power differential between Ge Lan and Sang Zan, one way or the other. When they're reunited, they're the most equal they've ever been. How do you think that affects their relationship?

  6. Energy beings! Let's talk about energy beings. Da Qing knows of them, so are there other ways for them to be created, beside the Mountain-River Awl? Or has the Awl been de-bodying people all over history? How? Any thoughts?

  7. If there are any Chinese speakers reading along, I was wondering about Wang Zheng's modern name - what would have gone into naming an amnesiac ghost 汪徵?

  8. I'm also curious about how different her story is in the novel. Anyone want to talk about that?

  9. And last, but certainly not least: What's your favourite parallel? :D

Some links


Fanfic

to recognise the heart in every person that you see by [personal profile] china_shop
Wang Zheng and Zhu Hong have a girls' night out.

Self-Defense (Won't Protect the Heart) by [personal profile] extrapenguin
Zhu Hong teaches Wang Zheng self-defence.

with their hearts open wide by [personal profile] teaotter
Wang Zheng/Sang Zan, spying on Shen Wei and Zhao Yunlan.

Awl Things, Bright and Beautiful by [personal profile] china_shop
This isn't strictly a Wang Zheng fic - it's Da Qing time-travel fix-it - but Wang Zheng has a significant part in it.

Fanart

Wang Zheng/Zhu Hong by chitsuu by [tumblr.com profile] chitsuu

Wang Zheng/Zhu Hong by kitshunette by [tumblr.com profile] kitshunette

Some icons

These are mainly from the Guardian Character Battle:

[personal profile] abyss_valkyrie [personal profile] china_shop [personal profile] enviropony [personal profile] extrapenguin [personal profile] lynndyre
[personal profile] naye [profile] tassoss [personal profile] teaotter [personal profile] tinny [personal profile] tsubame_17


So - come and talk about Wang Zheng/Ge Lan! Share links to meta, picspams, and related fanworks, new or old! Self-recs whole-heartedly encouraged. Basically, this is the place for anything you want to say or link to about Wang Zheng.

Important: If you're commenting with meta/discussion/thoughts, please say whether you're coming from a novel perspective, a drama perspective, or a blend of the two, so we don't end up talking past each other. Thanks!
china_shop: Close-up of Zhao Yunlan grinning (Default)

[personal profile] china_shop 2020-04-18 10:51 pm (UTC)(link)
This is such a great post! My thoughts are entirely drama-based.

When we meet her, she's very much living in the modern world, and a part of the SID crew: she uses a computer, eats popcorn, gossips with Zhu Hong and Lin Jing, teases Chu Shuzhi about being an Envoy fanboy. But she's been in the present for at most three years

That's a great point. I wonder who taught her about computers and modern life. I don't get the impression she and Zhu Hong are particularly close at the beginning (Zhu Hong's protective gesture during the sex doll scene seems almost performative, rather than natural), and Ling Jin would just have blinded her with science. Maybe Da Qing? He was one of the ones who found her and brought her back to the city, and I can imagine them having an easy, lowkey friendship without any expectation for more on either side.

but she also seems to do general secretarial work like answering the phone.

Is that from the start, or does it only kick in when Zhu Hong starts doing fieldwork? Maybe when the number of cases ramps up and Zhu Hong's duties expand, Wang Zheng picks up the slack?

Wang Zheng, you're fitting right in with the rest of them!

Hee!

Doesn't she spend the entire drive to the mountains staring out the car window feeling guilty and responsible? I've never been sure what she felt responsible for, other than being the patriarch's daughter, part of the cruel system by extension, and thus the reason the other tribe members turned against Sang Zan. Which, I feel like someone could explicitly talk to her about that? (Zhu Jiu, watching the ghost soldier attack, says, "No hatred without cause. Wang Zheng, don't blame me." Which suggests he thinks she's at fault, too.)

Ge Lan is sheltered and optimistic

I'd even say naive. She seems blithely unconcerned for the fate of her bodyguard when she breaks the rules, reassuring him that he doesn't need to worry because her father will listen to her, which... I am skeptical.

Once she regains her memories, do you think she thinks of herself as Wang Zheng, or as Ge Lan? Does it change after she returns to the SID with Sang Zan?

I had assumed Wang Zheng, and I still lean that way because that's the life she's living now, but Sang Zan does call her Ge Lan (I noticed, belatedly, after I wrote my story where I said the opposite ;-p).

In the past, there was always a significant power differential between Ge Lan and Sang Zan, one way or the other. When they're reunited, they're the most equal they've ever been. How do you think that affects their relationship?

I'm not sure I agree with this. Sang Zan seems almost helpless in present day, and Wang Zheng seems part lover and part parent -- or at least part teacher. I think as Sang Zan adjusts they become more equal, but doesn't he defer to her a lot? Which makes sense, given how little he knows about the modern world. I just don't know that I'd categorise it as equal. (I mean, equal in terms of external status, sure. But not in their dynamic.)


I didn't notice Wang Zheng in canon, really, until the start of the Hanga Arc, and she's so weepy and wan there, I decided she was kind of wet. Rewatching, she comes across as mischievous and definitely part of the team before that (like in the popcorn scene), which I like. ♥ I still tend to think her fanon (or maybe novel? idk!) characterisation -- of being firm with Zhao Yunlan, for example -- is more interesting than strictly drama canon characterisation, which is sometimes a bit too meek for my taste.

Thanks so much for the recs! ♥
Edited 2020-04-18 22:53 (UTC)
china_shop: Mid-shot of Wang Zheng ritually praying in the dark. (Guardian - Wang Zheng praying)

[personal profile] china_shop 2020-04-19 12:13 am (UTC)(link)
Supplementary question (re Wang Zheng coming to the SID and adjusting to modern life): do you think she has a cellphone? She never leaves the SID so technically she doesn't need one, but not having one means no texting, which could be inconvenient at times...

She spends the entire drive staring out blankly - not sure if she's feeling guilty, or sad, or just overwhelmed.

And crying. But true, I'm conflating "feeling guilty" with "feeling responsible". Presumably she's also marinating in suddenly remembered past trauma -- it's a pretty bloody history. But she feels responsible enough that she drugs everyone else and goes into the mountains alone (presumably expecting not to come out again?). Not willing to let the others help resolve the situation or take any risks on her behalf.

But she might be feeling guilty for her naiveté, which did make things worse at times. If she'd understood there was no chance of Sang Zan and her father coming to any kind of agreement ... Well, I'm not sure what that might have solved, but I could see her thinking that.

Yes. She was practically a child, then, but guilt is rarely rational, and we don't know what kind of abuse of slaves she might have ignored or taken for granted (like her bodyguard's life being on the line).

I wonder how she feels about slavery now, having grown up with it being completely taken for granted, and then learning how violent and cruel and unjust it is. If she was designing a society, what kind of society would she create?

Teacher is true, but even when she's teaching him it doesn't seem parental to me.

I was thinking in the transactional analysis sense, rather than at all literally. But fair enough. :-)

When her father was alive, she was a princess and he was a slave.

Mm, though he had worldliness. Her cluelessness left her helpless, as you say. And she didn't seem to have any social bonds beyond her family whereas he had righteousness and awareness of the way of the world, as well as all the other slaves at his back (to start off with).

...I think I'm better at thinking about relationship dynamic equality than external status equality. :-)

Digression: Speaking of their different social statuses in the past, and all their star-crossedness, in the Wang Zheng & Zhu Hong story, I had Wang Zheng say that Zhao Yunlan is the first person who's ever tried to help them stay together. I think that is a huge part of their loyalty to him, and why they're so willing to throw themselves in harm's way for him in the end.
Edited (icon!) 2020-04-19 00:15 (UTC)
maggie33: Infanta Margerita - Las Meninas, Diego Velazquez (Default)

[personal profile] maggie33 2020-04-19 06:35 am (UTC)(link)
And when the disembodied spirits of her tribe are after her, she's immediately ready to meet them on her own. Lin Jing and Shen Wei protect her - but that doesn't stop her: she drugs everyone to be able to go out on her own and face what she must.

Shen Wei: "I think she does not mean to betray you, but is planning to sacrifice herself to ensure our safety.

Yep, definitely fitting right in with this bunch of self-sacrificial, must-shoulder-everything-alone heroes who are learning to be a family. *g*


Heh... Yes, when I re-watched that episode my reaction was: “of course Shen Wei understands why she did that, of course.” :D


Once she regains her memories, do you think she thinks of herself as Wang Zheng, or as Ge Lan? Does it change after she returns to the SID with Sang Zan?

I could be wrong, but I think SID people, or at least Zhao Yunlan, still call her Wang Zheng later. And IMO she thinks of herself as Wang Zheng. I can’t remember if we ever hear Sang Zan call her by her name, but I think he would probably call her and think of her as Ge Lan. So maybe she’s Ge Lan with him and Wang Zheng for everybody else.

As for fanworks – I really liked another Wang Zheng/Zhu Hong fic by ExtraPenguin A Cottage Outside the Woods
china_shop: Mid-shot of Wang Zheng ritually praying in the dark. (Guardian - Wang Zheng praying)

[personal profile] china_shop 2020-04-19 07:28 am (UTC)(link)
In ep 12 when Tan Xiao breaks into the SID, Sang Zan calls her Ge Lan, but that's quite early in Sang Zan's arrival at the SID, so not conclusive. /data point

So maybe she’s Ge Lan with him and Wang Zheng for everybody else.

I like that idea. :-)
maggie33: Infanta Margerita - Las Meninas, Diego Velazquez (Default)

[personal profile] maggie33 2020-04-19 11:38 am (UTC)(link)
Oh, right, he does call her Ge Lan then, I forgot about that moment. Well, it made me curious. I'm doing a re-watch of the second half of the drama now, so I'll try to pay attention to their scenes and see if he calls her Ge Lan again. :)
extrapenguin: A man raising a glass protector off from above a magic device. (guardian)

[personal profile] extrapenguin 2020-04-19 01:56 pm (UTC)(link)
Drama only.

Once she regains her memories, do you think she thinks of herself as Wang Zheng, or as Ge Lan? Does it change after she returns to the SID with Sang Zan?
Given that she doesn't ask people to call her Ge Lan, it seems that she likes this chance to "start anew"/not take on the burdens of her prior life again. Internally, it'd depend on how she received the memories, I guess. It's very possible she grew attached to her life as Wang Zheng and preferred it to her life as Ge Lan enough to be Wang Zheng even inside her mind.

Does Wang Zheng go into the mountain of her own accord, or is she being manipulated by Zhu Jiu? Rewatching, when she's going into the mountain Wang Zheng looks almost like she's in a trance. Is she going entirely of her own accord, or is she being manipulated by Zhu Jiu somehow?
I always interpreted it as her going there of her own accord, and Zhu Jiu standing there cackling because he just needs to follow her in and use her as a lure. So Zhu Jiu set the thing in motion, but didn't interfere once the avalanche had started.

Energy beings! Let's talk about energy beings. Da Qing knows of them, so are there other ways for them to be created, beside the Mountain-River Awl? Or has the Awl been de-bodying people all over history? How? Any thoughts?
Da Qing was there 10k years ago, so either the Awl debodied someone unfortunate back then, or it debodied people between being carried out of Dixing and being given to the Hanga Tribe and he heard about it. I guess it could also be that debodying people was someone's Dixing power?

And thank you for the rec! :)
clevermanka: default (Default)

[personal profile] clevermanka 2020-04-19 04:44 pm (UTC)(link)
"they literally died, and that wasn't the end of their story"
It keeps on going...

I kinda wonder if Wang Zheng's patience and compassion with Sang Zan's changed person was meant to be, not necessarily a foil, but a comparison to Li Qian's attitude and regret toward her grandmother.
nnozomi: (Default)

[personal profile] nnozomi 2020-04-19 10:51 pm (UTC)(link)
Lovely post and interesting discussion. I have just a couple of points to add:

-- I really love Wang Zheng's modern-day capable office manager persona (it makes me wonder if instead of wreaking bloody revolution, Sang Zan would have been better off setting her up in charge of her tribe with himself as trophy husband/advisor). Her malicious delight in cutting Lin Jing's bonus never fails to make me giggle, it gives the impression that she has strict standards and expects the SID to live up to them, thank you very much.

-- It seems as if, explicitly or implicitly, she and Sang Zan have agreed that the awful traumas of their previous relationship have been cancelled out by the interim deaths and empillarment (?) and that they now have a clean slate to work on and can just be happy and in love (I find their Valentine's Day scene incredibly sappy, but they seem to enjoy it, so why not). If this is the case, it's interesting that they're almost the only people we see who manage to let go of all their past resentment and hurt and start fresh, while there are so many other major and minor characters who continue to be motivated by real or imagined anger and pain. As simple as the fact that they have each other again?

-- Really interested by the discussion above about who in the SID taught her to adjust to modern life. My own guess would be Zhao Yunlan himself, over a handful of brief, patient, efficient lessons interspersed by wisecracks. But (although I can never keep track of the chronology of who joined the SID when) Chu Shuzhi must have had to learn the same things at some point, and it's affecting to imagine the two of them quietly working it out together.

-- I want to know if the red dress is supposed to symbolize a wedding dress? God that dress is beautiful, as is Wang Zheng herself.