How to sell Zhao Yunlan

[sakana17]

My good friend thevetia asked me to show her Guardian, I very happily complied, we've watched through episode 13 (♥ 13! ♥) and she mentioned that she... doesn't like Zhao Yunlan much. ;__; But she wants to keep watching, so there's hope.

1.) Shen Wei is a quietly dazzling package of awesome, and I totally understand her devoting more attention and thoughts to Shen Wei because, yes.

2.) On first watch I didn't immediately love Zhao Yunlan, either, but he quickly interested me, and by this point (ep 13) I was sold. Now I love him so much I don't actually remember how I got here. :)

Through episode 13, what are Zhao Yunlan's best qualities? How would you describe his good points to someone who didn't notice them? I made an attempt, but... was not rational about it.

I don't need her to love Zhao Yunlan, of course (if she wants to watch the rest just for Shen Wei, I ain't gonna say no), but...!

Advice? Suggestions?

Comments

[marycrawford]

Awww that's hard! I was in love with Shen Wei from the get-go, esp after seeing him as the Envoy, but I liked ZYL a lot, too. My favorite thing about him: his sheer competence. He likes to disguise it with a lot of literal handwaving and "oh wow, bro, tell me more" naivete, to make ppl underestimate him, but he is SO SMART and strategic, and uses his shamelessness like a weapon (the sleeping on SW in the car! the SECOND sleeping on Shen Wei in the car he wasn't even supposed to be in!).

Also: by the time you get to the mind-control episode, I deeply love all his attempts to make ROOM for Shen Wei to tell him the truth, which he has already figured out for himself. That little scene just after the wedding where he gets intensely unhappily quietly frustrated that Shen Wei still won't tell him, but still doesn't push him to the brink, mannnnn I feel for him so much. And then the super badass "use the gun" moment, MY HEART. They are so in tune there.

[sakana17]

Yes, Zhao Yunlan hits my competence kink so very much! (Well, they both do! I call them the Competence Couple.) And it's true that she may have missed some of his demonstrated smarts so far, just because a lot is going on at any given moment. She's sort of reading his strategizing as manipulating Shen Wei, though, which hmmmmm.

by the time you get to the mind-control episode, I deeply love all his attempts to make ROOM for Shen Wei to tell him the truth, which he has already figured out for himself. That little scene just after the wedding where he gets intensely unhappily quietly frustrated that Shen Wei still won't tell him, but still doesn't push him to the brink, mannnnn I feel for him so much. And then the super badass "use the gun" moment, MY HEART. They are so in tune there.

YES, all of this! How I love episode 13! She liked the episode but reacted differently to Zhao Yunlan. She felt that since he was smart enough to know that Shen Wei must have a good reason for keeping his secret, Zhao Yunlan shouldn't have let Shen Wei think he was mind-controlled in order to force him to reveal himself. I pointed out that Shen Wei keeping secrets led to a death at the wedding, but it didn't go very far. IDK. I'm hoping that now that the identity reveal is over, it'll help? It does shift Zhao Yunlan out of stalkery mode and there's good Competence Couple stuff coming up. But there are also more Zhao Yunlan Can't Keep His Mitts Off The Holy Tools moments, and someone predisposed to think less of Zhao Yunlan is unlikely to cut him any slack there.

[glymr]

This post is just old enough to be weird that I'm commenting on it, and new enough to be weird to use it for a Bingo fill. But I saw the line "uses his shamelessness like a weapon" and went, "YES."

Zhao Yunlan comes across as obnoxious early on in the show in the first watching. He sneezes on people! He straight up eats Shen Wei's cake in front of him!

But the more I watched him, the more convinced I was that everything he does is deliberate. He sets out to be underestimated from the start (tells people to call him "xiao-Zhao"!) When Shen Wei has an odd reaction to him (while shaking hands), ZY starts putting pressure on him. Each time he sees him, he pushes against the boundaries of proper social interaction a little more.

And none of it deters Shen Wei. Most people would quickly become fed up with Zhao Yunlan's antics, pulling back and getting irritated, but Shen Wei never does. Ironically, one of the first times he gets truly annoyed with Zhao Yunlan is when Zhao Yunlan is actively trying to impress him, with the old books. Other than that, the only times he gets frustrated are when Yunlan endangers himself (ie the Hallows).

Anyway, this is a bit of a necro on a post and probably no longer relevant, but I can see why people might find ZY annoying on the first watch through. Seeing his actions through the lens of "he's doing these things deliberately, pushing boundaries intentionally" can change the perception of him a lot, though. His shamelessness is a weapon, part of a carefully crafted arsenal.

[sakana17]

This is a great analysis, and I'm glad you dug up this old post :D and commented!

the more convinced I was that everything he does is deliberate

I think so, too, at least for the things he's aware he's doing.

One of the interesting things about episode 31 (Zhu Hong dream ep) is how he had carelessly said things to her or acted in certain ways around her which led her down one emotional path, while he was unaware. And when confronted by it in the episode, he feels awful about it, and it's clear he had no idea.

Happily, my friend came around the more she saw of him and figured out that so much of his annoying behavior was a deliberate strategy. When she finished the series she went back to the beginning to rewatch and now sees him entirely differently than she did before. She and I have talked about how so much of what he does and how he presents himself could be interpreted as specifically designed to provoke/annoy his father.

[glymr]

Your point about Zhu Hong and how ZY affected her unintentionally is well-taken! I agree absolutely. I figured that there were two things going on there:

1) They've clearly known each other for awhile. I had an idea he said those things to her maybe when he was a bit younger and less aware.

2) It's possible that the only Yashou ZY had met up to that point had been Da Qing. It feels like he was treating Zhu Hong like a human girl, expecting her to react like one. He didn't tailor his approach for a snake because he'd never met one before.

I'm so glad to know that your friend came around in the end! <3

[sakana17]

Yeah, in the early part of the dream that feels like a memory Zhu Hong has, Zhao Yunlan seems a more rough-around-the-edges version of what he's like at the start of the series, and I interpreted it as being sometime early after they started working with each other. He does seem like he's less aware than he later is -- I like the possibility that as he grew into his role as the SID chief, he focused his skills more, because he actually likes his job.

Very good point about Zhao Yunlan not being around other Yashou! I think he is treating her like a human girl, not a snake. And even though she's physically adult, there are several references to how young she is. Zhao Yunlan, even if he thought about her being a snake, would still probably think of her as more mature, equal to humans who physically look around the same.

[ranalore]

I like the possibility that as he grew into his role as the SID chief, he focused his skills more

I like this idea too, not least because of how it parallels what we see of Shen Wei and his past mistakes as the Envoy. In a way, Zhu Hong's dream confrontation with Zhao Yunlan feels like a less drastic variation on Zhu Jiu's rooftop reveal of his first encounter with Hei Pao Shi. Zhao Yunlan had no evil twin lurking around to seize on his thoughtless throwaway comments to Zhu Hong and twist her pining into resentment, but he still did damage Shen Wei's evil twin was able to take advantage of.