sid_guardian | How to sell Zhao Yunlan

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How to sell Zhao Yunlan

My good friend

thevetia asked me to show her Guardian, I very happily complied, we've watched through episode 13 (♥ 13! ♥) and she mentioned that she... doesn't like Zhao Yunlan much. ;__; But she wants to keep watching, so there's hope.

1.) Shen Wei is a quietly dazzling package of awesome, and I totally understand her devoting more attention and thoughts to Shen Wei because, yes.

2.) On first watch I didn't immediately love Zhao Yunlan, either, but he quickly interested me, and by this point (ep 13) I was sold. Now I love him so much I don't actually remember how I got here. :)

Through episode 13, what are Zhao Yunlan's best qualities? How would you describe his good points to someone who didn't notice them? I made an attempt, but... was not rational about it.

I don't need her to love Zhao Yunlan, of course (if she wants to watch the rest just for Shen Wei, I ain't gonna say no), but...!

Advice? Suggestions?

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It's possible she might like Zhao Yunlan more later? The second half of the show you see more of his serious, responsible side, and if she likes Shen Wei that might be something she goes for. And also, as she does like Shen Wei, Zhao Yunlan's increasingly demonstrated devotion might win her over?

(I admit, I'm coming at this from the perspective that Shen Wei is my favorite but I absolutely adore Zhao Yunlan and can't imagine watching the series not loving both of them, but...I think for me as a Shen Wei fan, Zhao Yunlan becomes ever more lovable as the series goes on, and he falls deeper in love?)

Zhao Yunlan is the kind of character who grows on you. (Also, he'll soon get a better haistyle!) His smarts and ability to plot and lead and think on his feet are things that one needs a bit more time to digest and a willingness/ability to notice them rather than just "ooh explosions" or whatever. Speaking for myself, the moment I really loved him was episode 16, when he drops the act for a while and it suddenly becomes clear just how much he's wearing a mask all the time.

He's so good with Shen Wei? He knows Shen Wei is keeping secrets and lets him. He waits so long for Shen Wei to tell him, and pushes only when said secrets have gotten people killed. And when he realizes there are even more secrets... He waits until Shen Wei is ready to talk. Literally - he tells Da Qing (who is worried and suspicious) that he knows Shen Wei will share when he's ready.

Also - he acts really brash and familiar, but he cares so deeply about his people? If you look at the beginning of the Hanga Arc, the minute he sees Wang Zheng's distress he's ready to pack up and go wherever she needs to be. And when everyone including Zhu Hong is snickering about the sex doll (which you'd think would be something Zhao Yunlan finds hilarious) he's really angry because of how it upsets Wang Zheng.

There's so many moments when you see that he's deeply emphatic and that a lot of the bluster is a mask. I mean, the reason Shen Wei passes out drinking is that Zhao Yunlan has been pressed into social drinking and is doing it with gusto for the good of their relationship with the local bigwigs, but he's also looking really drained by it.

Honestly, I've always loved Zhao Yunlan and I can't imagine not doing so, but the kindness at his core is one of the things that really get to me.

(Another example: really early on Butler Wu is dying and Zhao Yunlan is right there ready to give of his own life force through the Dial! When it doesn't work he begs the Black-Cloaked Envoy to save the guy. He CARES.)

<3 <3

Awww that's hard! I was in love with Shen Wei from the get-go, esp after seeing him as the Envoy, but I liked ZYL a lot, too. My favorite thing about him: his sheer competence. He likes to disguise it with a lot of literal handwaving and "oh wow, bro, tell me more" naivete, to make ppl underestimate him, but he is SO SMART and strategic, and uses his shamelessness like a weapon (the sleeping on SW in the car! the SECOND sleeping on Shen Wei in the car he wasn't even supposed to be in!).

Also: by the time you get to the mind-control episode, I deeply love all his attempts to make ROOM for Shen Wei to tell him the truth, which he has already figured out for himself. That little scene just after the wedding where he gets intensely unhappily quietly frustrated that Shen Wei still won't tell him, but still doesn't push him to the brink, mannnnn I feel for him so much. And then the super badass "use the gun" moment, MY HEART. They are so in tune there.

1) the haircut change really really helps.

2) in more serious vein, he plays the fool well, but the show is actually pretty good at showcasing just how sharp, competent - and invested into the wellbeing of people around him - he is. he's good at his job, he's good at rolling with the punching, he's good with digging for truth, and he cares a whole lot, way more than he's willing to admit. he's in his place, basically.

3) as people above say, he's very, very good at not taking shen wei's bullshit lies, but also not pushing shen wei when pushing him would be, like, emotionally unfair. he grinds his teeth, but does his utter best to give him space, and it's hard to do, and he is, for all his bluster and fire, pretty respectful of what's important.

4) but no seriously, the haircut REALLY helps.

Is it an active antipathy or is it just disinterest? I would say not to worry about it, honestly. She's happy to keep watching, she loves Shen Wei, and while there might be a few bumps coming up, depending on if it's disinterest or actual dislike, I think Zhao Yunlan will grow on her. Once he's in on Shen Wei's secret identity, Zhao Yunlan clearly feels safer about letting Shen Wei occasionally see beneath his masks, and I think the realization of how much of his behavior is a performance works retroactively. So, if she's not quite sold on him now, she may reach a point where he has a raw moment that hits her in the feels, and suddenly she won't even be able to remember why she didn't love him in the first place.

It may also be she does the first watch-through without really getting into him. Honestly, as someone who has had someone repeatedly try to demand that I love their fandoms—and who has a deep aversion to the fandoms and even the actors to this day, as a result—my best advice is just, now that you've stated your case once, step back and give her room to develop her own relationship with the character. You've said why you like him, now you have to have faith in the source. Don't push him at her, and I think she'll be more likely to try to figure out the appeal for herself. It may still be she ultimately remains meh, but I'm going to predict it's far more likely she will soon have her very own "GODDAMNIT JUNJIN" moment.

It's possible she might like Zhao Yunlan more later?

I'm hoping so! We're on the cusp of episode 14, and it hit me that a bunch of what I love in that episode may rub her the wrong way if she's down on Zhao Yunlan. So I wanted to have some pro-ZYL crib notes handy. :)

I think for me as a Shen Wei fan, Zhao Yunlan becomes ever more lovable as the series goes on, and he falls deeper in love

This makes total sense! Maybe she can get there, too, and not, like, think Shen Wei is in love with someone not worthy of him.

Thank you for sharing this perspective!

Zhao Yunlan is the kind of character who grows on you.

That was definitely my experience. And yeah, the hairstyle change may help... ^___^

His smarts and ability to plot and lead and think on his feet

*sigh* Yessssss. He hits my competence kink so hard (they both do).

Ohhhh, thank you for reminding me about episode 16! If I can get her through episodes 14 and 15, there's good ZYL stuff in 16 and 17 that might at least help her to see him as interesting.

Thank you!! These are all great points! I want to have them handy when we watch episode 14, because it occurred to me that what I love in that episode may bounce off of her big-time if she's bugged by Zhao Yunlan. A lot is happening in the show at any given moment and it's easy to forget certain things, and if her attention has been Shen Wei-focused she may not have even picked up on stuff like the Butler Wu moment. (Which is huge and *so* early!)

I love this comment! ♥ Zhao Yunlan!

Yes, Zhao Yunlan hits my competence kink so very much! (Well, they both do! I call them the Competence Couple.) And it's true that she may have missed some of his demonstrated smarts so far, just because a lot is going on at any given moment. She's sort of reading his strategizing as manipulating Shen Wei, though, which hmmmmm.

by the time you get to the mind-control episode, I deeply love all his attempts to make ROOM for Shen Wei to tell him the truth, which he has already figured out for himself. That little scene just after the wedding where he gets intensely unhappily quietly frustrated that Shen Wei still won't tell him, but still doesn't push him to the brink, mannnnn I feel for him so much. And then the super badass "use the gun" moment, MY HEART. They are so in tune there.

YES, all of this! How I love episode 13! She liked the episode but reacted differently to Zhao Yunlan. She felt that since he was smart enough to know that Shen Wei must have a good reason for keeping his secret, Zhao Yunlan shouldn't have let Shen Wei think he was mind-controlled in order to force him to reveal himself. I pointed out that Shen Wei keeping secrets led to a death at the wedding, but it didn't go very far. IDK. I'm hoping that now that the identity reveal is over, it'll help? It does shift Zhao Yunlan out of stalkery mode and there's good Competence Couple stuff coming up. But there are also more Zhao Yunlan Can't Keep His Mitts Off The Holy Tools moments, and someone predisposed to think less of Zhao Yunlan is unlikely to cut him any slack there.

LOL! It's true, the haircut change should help! ^___^

he plays the fool well, but the show is actually pretty good at showcasing just how sharp, competent - and invested into the wellbeing of people around him - he is

Yes to all of this! Thanks - these are all good things to mention. She said she felt like Zhao Yunlan was hiding some of his own identity behind the bro persona, and I take hope in that.

he's very, very good at not taking shen wei's bullshit lies, but also not pushing shen wei when pushing him would be, like, emotionally unfair. he grinds his teeth, but does his utter best to give him space, and it's hard to do, and he is, for all his bluster and fire, pretty respectful of what's important.

I totally agree! She felt he pushed Shen Wei unfairly in episode 13 (despite the death at the wedding), I tried to lay out just how patient he'd been, giving Shen Wei all kinds of room to 'fess up. I mean, I think it's only because of the death that he pushes. As frustrated as he's gotten by this point, I feel like if there hadn't been a death, he would've still given Shen Wei the space he needs.

As I was responding to comments, I talked to her again & she says she doesn't dislike him but doesn't understand his motivations. It's sounding way better than it did last night! *phew*

So I think you & others are right that Zhao Yunlan should grow on her, especially as more is revealed about him in upcoming episodes. She also wants to rewatch the eps we already watched, because some things will look different in retrospect. *g*

I mentioned some of the points others have made here, to set out the groundwork that there's a lot to concentrate on, and it's okay if she's missed/forgotten some Zhao Yunlan details. I think part of what seemed like a harshness earlier was maybe a fear/suspicion that she was missing something big & obvious about the character. And that's not the case -- it does take time to get to know him beyond the first impressions.

as someone who has had someone repeatedly try to demand that I love their fandoms

I hear ya. I usually don't respond well to active or pushy pimping from others, and I try very hard to avoid doing it myself. Getting

thevetia to watch Guardian was kind of an accident: I brought a USB drive of the eps to Germany to give to someone who ended up not needing it, we noticed the USB input on the hotel's TV, gave it a try and it worked. It gave us something fannish to watch at night, and I didn't have any expectations for her getting into it or not. Ha! I had underestimated the power of Shen Wei's sleeve garters! :D

I love Zhao Yunlan an inordinate amount, and I am so glad this was helpful to you - and if it might be helpful to your friends, so much the better! ♥

But yes, stuff like Butler Wu - and with Zhang Rounan (the Wang Yike case) where Shen Wei didn't realize how badly upset his own colleague was, and Zhao Yunlan took one look at her and went "Yeah, so I think she's been badly traumatized recently?" and he was right and Shen Wei's "What don't be ridiculous!" was wrong.

ANYWAY I hope you have a fun time watching Guardian together!

Yes, it was very helpful! After talking about some of the earlier Zhao Yunlan moments, it was clear she'd missed several of them because of paying more attention to the subtitles or other stuff happening, which definitely can happen with this show, especially seeing it for the first time. So she didn't remember what Zhao Yunlan was doing/saying in the Butler Wu scene, stuff like that. We watched episodes 14 and 15, and she's curious about the flashbacks Zhao Yunlan's been getting, which is a very hopeful sign. :)

Oh, my, yes, I love Zhao Yunlan's Perception Competence in that scene with Teacher Zhang. ♥ him.

Yes, we are having fun watching it together! And I'm noticing even more things that I didn't pick up on earlier, which I love.

This post is just old enough to be weird that I'm commenting on it, and new enough to be weird to use it for a Bingo fill. But I saw the line "uses his shamelessness like a weapon" and went, "YES."

Zhao Yunlan comes across as obnoxious early on in the show in the first watching. He sneezes on people! He straight up eats Shen Wei's cake in front of him!

But the more I watched him, the more convinced I was that everything he does is deliberate. He sets out to be underestimated from the start (tells people to call him "xiao-Zhao"!) When Shen Wei has an odd reaction to him (while shaking hands), ZY starts putting pressure on him. Each time he sees him, he pushes against the boundaries of proper social interaction a little more.

And none of it deters Shen Wei. Most people would quickly become fed up with Zhao Yunlan's antics, pulling back and getting irritated, but Shen Wei never does. Ironically, one of the first times he gets truly annoyed with Zhao Yunlan is when Zhao Yunlan is actively trying to impress him, with the old books. Other than that, the only times he gets frustrated are when Yunlan endangers himself (ie the Hallows).

Anyway, this is a bit of a necro on a post and probably no longer relevant, but I can see why people might find ZY annoying on the first watch through. Seeing his actions through the lens of "he's doing these things deliberately, pushing boundaries intentionally" can change the perception of him a lot, though. His shamelessness is a weapon, part of a carefully crafted arsenal.

This is a great analysis, and I'm glad you dug up this old post :D and commented!

the more convinced I was that everything he does is deliberate

I think so, too, at least for the things he's aware he's doing.

One of the interesting things about episode 31 (Zhu Hong dream ep) is how he had carelessly said things to her or acted in certain ways around her which led her down one emotional path, while he was unaware. And when confronted by it in the episode, he feels awful about it, and it's clear he had no idea.

Happily, my friend came around the more she saw of him and figured out that so much of his annoying behavior was a deliberate strategy. When she finished the series she went back to the beginning to rewatch and now sees him entirely differently than she did before. She and I have talked about how so much of what he does and how he presents himself could be interpreted as specifically designed to provoke/annoy his father.

Your point about Zhu Hong and how ZY affected her unintentionally is well-taken! I agree absolutely. I figured that there were two things going on there:

1) They've clearly known each other for awhile. I had an idea he said those things to her maybe when he was a bit younger and less aware.

2) It's possible that the only Yashou ZY had met up to that point had been Da Qing. It feels like he was treating Zhu Hong like a human girl, expecting her to react like one. He didn't tailor his approach for a snake because he'd never met one before.

I'm so glad to know that your friend came around in the end! <3

Yeah, in the early part of the dream that feels like a memory Zhu Hong has, Zhao Yunlan seems a more rough-around-the-edges version of what he's like at the start of the series, and I interpreted it as being sometime early after they started working with each other. He does seem like he's less aware than he later is -- I like the possibility that as he grew into his role as the SID chief, he focused his skills more, because he actually likes his job.

Very good point about Zhao Yunlan not being around other Yashou! I think he is treating her like a human girl, not a snake. And even though she's physically adult, there are several references to how young she is. Zhao Yunlan, even if he thought about her being a snake, would still probably think of her as more mature, equal to humans who physically look around the same.

I like the possibility that as he grew into his role as the SID chief, he focused his skills more

I like this idea too, not least because of how it parallels what we see of Shen Wei and his past mistakes as the Envoy. In a way, Zhu Hong's dream confrontation with Zhao Yunlan feels like a less drastic variation on Zhu Jiu's rooftop reveal of his first encounter with Hei Pao Shi. Zhao Yunlan had no evil twin lurking around to seize on his thoughtless throwaway comments to Zhu Hong and twist her pining into resentment, but he still did damage Shen Wei's evil twin was able to take advantage of.

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How to sell Zhao Yunlan

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