sid_guardian | Rabbit Hole that is this show/novel...

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Rabbit Hole that is this show/novel...

Hi, I'm new here all thanks to

bonibaru. Anyway, I posted a version of the below to my f-list earlier and thought I should share it here. Its mostly just squeeing and comparing the series to the novel.

So, I've basically disappeared down the rabbit hole that is Guardian in the last week. I started watching the show Sunday last week, finished it around Thursday night, had a bit of a crisis over it on twitter and I went back to the source material and for the first time in a looooong time, I read a Chinese novel.

Aaaaanyway, the novel? MAKES SO MUCH MORE SENSE! There were quite a few things in the show that had me going WTF, like the fact that Zhao Yunlan is the Zhenhun Ling Zhu (how was that translated in the subs??), but its never really explained WTF is the Zhenhun Ling?! At least I didn't noticed it in the series? It seemed like he was just suddenly referred to as Zhenhun Ling Zhu and that was it? But its all properly set out and explained in the novel!

And Shen Wei's necklace? That utterly WTF explanation in the TV series? Well, in the novel, Kun Lun is Zhao Yunlan's past life, and that necklace contains part of Kun Lun's eternal soul that was given to Shen Wei by Kun Lun. I mean, ADSKHASHD!!11!!?!

The thing is, the setting in the novel is completely different from the TV show. The novel is pretty much supernatural and the Chinese origins of universe mythos that is also heavily influenced by a lot of Chinese beliefs/superstitious and religious (Taoist) practices (come to think of it, quite a bit of Buddhism as well), while the TV series is definitely more sci-fi. And when you try to adapt supernatural into sci-fi, some stuff just don't translate well and as it was in this case, makes no sense. I remember I kept thinking "WTF is a Zhenhun Ling?!?" but if it was ever explained in the series, I missed it.

Also, THEY HAVE A HAPPY ENDING IN THE NOVEL AFTER ALL THAT H/C!! My god, Shen Wei is just a big huge woobie across all universes I think.

There're a few post main story small 'slice of life' type scenes set after the novel, and one of the longer ones have them trapped in alternate time-loop bubbles that Zhao Yunlan had to basically live through in a what's essentially a seriously prolonged game of "spot the difference/black cat moment" that ranges from 10 minutes to 10,000 years, and I choose to believe that the TV series adaptation is one of those time-loop bubbles that he had to live through. Sure as hell made more sense in my head! :D

So yeah, my brain is just all Zhao Yunlan/Shen Wei at this point. HELP!

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Welcome to the fandom. I can't comment on the novel because I haven't read it but I believe Zhao Yunlan was called 'Lord of the Guardians' in the subs. Since I know exactly five words in Chinese I'm not sure about that. We have people with Chinese language skills in the comm though!

I just went back to double check. The YouTube version I watched had the English as "Lord of the Zhenhun Token"... was it ever explained what it was and how he became the Lord of it?

Which episode is this? I don't remember seeing it, and I'm working my way through the subs now.

Ep 15. The ep where I remember first hearing to him being referred to as such by that regent from Dixing who came up to see him.

That bubble universe was an epilogue that Priest wrote after the drama, and said that the drama is the last bubble they have to pass through to get out. So ... your choice to believe that's what happened, is actually what happened. Priest retconned the drama into the novel-verse, and that kind of dedication to fandom is remarkable!

Ahahaha! That's pretty awesome! And it fit into that universe perfectly IMO! :D

Hello, fellow Boni victim! She sure has a seductive way about her. You'll notice a number of familiar faces about the place -- I wrote a pimping post directed at old-school slashers, because this fandom is so Relevant to Our Interests. I've added you here--I don't think we're really been in the same fandom since our SGA days.

I guess you're a Chinese speaker/reader. Good to know! I'm helping

solo put together better subtitles and we often need Chinese advice.

Oh, SGA, how I miss that crack of a fandom!

My Chinese is.... well, its not crap, but not nearly as good as people who've been educated all the way to university level in Chinese or use it for work everyday, but leisure reading is fine and I'm pretty sure I attempted to write my own Wuxia 武侠 fanfic by hand when I was 14...so I suppose it's good enough for fannish purposes...? :P

Feel free to ping me with Chinese queries, happy to help.

I have only read up to the Wattpad translations (currently at 76 or so - avoiding reading the spoilers chapters beyond that), but yes! I love the novel - I also love the show. So glad you're enjoying both!

My god, Shen Wei is just a big huge woobie across all universes I think.
So terribly true. ♥

I think I like the DaQing in the show better than in the novel, that's for sure. :D

I probably need to go back and re-read the novel at a slower pace, since I pretty much speed read my way through it and probably missed some stuff.

I am super excited to do a re-read of the novel at a more reasonable pace and also with more translations - there are bits and pieces of chapters past the Wattpad translation floating around, and I am so, so tempted to give it a go because I love the novel story.

As a queer person the way the novel deals with Zhao Yunlan's relationship with his parents and coming out to them (while being so comfortably bi around everyone else already) hits really hard, in such good ways. For a writer whose novel full of supernatural and melodramatic elements, Priest does such a fantastic job with that aspect.

And I love how much more sense the show makes when you've read the novel! Even if it isn't the full novel, it's like having a some kind of decoder ring? OH, this scene where Shen Wei wipes Zhao Yunlan's bloody nose is their take on that one time Shen Wei almost punched Zhao Yunlan for using forbidden magic in the hospital! And of course that amazing scene with Shen Wei cutting himself in the kitchen - I am VERY EXCITED because I know that comes from a book chapter too but I haven't read it yet?

I'm kinda glad I don't have to wait for the translation. There's one I've seen on AO3 but its only bits and pieces from the novel, not the whole thing. Frankly, given that a lot of the backstory/past is build around Chinese mythologies and assumes a certain level of knowledge from the readers, translating that is a seriously challenging job. As ok as I think my level of Chinese is, I wouldn't even dream of translating that whole novel...

I don't have any personal experience with coming out, but I do like Mama Zhao's reaction, which is what I imagine a liberal Chinese mum's reaction would be like.

this scene where Shen Wei wipes Zhao Yunlan's bloody nose is their take on that one time Shen Wei almost punched Zhao Yunlan for using forbidden magic in the hospital!

Seriously? I didn't made that connection, but now that you mentioned it! Hee! The only time SW gets mad is when ZYL is doing something that will hurt himself and its just.... eeeee!!! :D

with Shen Wei cutting himself in the kitchen - I am VERY EXCITED because I know that comes from a book chapter too but I haven't read it yet?

Yep, that's definitely in the novel. If you want to check it out, that chapter has actually been translated here as part of a collection of excerpts from the novel and oh god, my heart.... <3

Its mostly just squeeing and comparing the series to the novel.

Um, jsyk, some of the members of this comm are fans of just the drama, so this is kind of the opposite of squee for us. ;-p (Maybe you could mention outside the cut that you're comparing the drama unfavourably to the novel?)

Oops! Didn't mean it that way! I do like the drama as well and think that there are some parts that the drama did better than the novel (like the character of Da Qing). And frankly, a lot of the plot holes I've been trained to just...*handwave - what plot holes?* and can just ignore... but yeah, I'll go and edit the post.

HI! (^_^)/ Welcome!!!

I not read the novel (wattpad is too much for me) but definitely in there are good explanations that the drama didn't care to have. (In spanish, the language at I'd seeing the drama, don't have the verbal tenses so...Now I'm seeing it,again, in english)

I'm going to start searching for these last chapters, I'm a all for the 'slice of life' in every fandom/pair.

Thanks! I'm not sure if the epilogues have been translated into English but if you don't mind Google translate probably screwing up half of it, the first part of this can be found here.

THANK YOU!!!!
I don't mind reading with google translations, I can make up everything I want :P

Have fun! :)

While the whole novel hasn't been translated, four of the epilogues have been (a couple more than once)! You can find them here: https://dtriad.tumblr.com/post/179416163366/%E9%95%87%E9%AD%82-translations-etc-masterlist

THANKS!!!

hi, and welcome to the fandom! ahahahaha, there is no help :D but hopefully it will ease the suffering to share feels with the group! (they are magical together, aren't they? *sigh*)

there is no help

I'm starting to get that feeling....

*happy sigh*

Welcome to the comm! I am so glad to know they get a happy ending in the novel and I see upthread how the novel writer fits the drama into the novel which is very yay for me. I love the drama, but I'm pretty disappointed with the bleak ending.

I agree that parts of the show are confusing and not explained well which is often a problem with adaptations.

Thanks! And it all just kinda makes so much more sense after one reads the novel... though frankly, after the years (decade?) of being in the Stargate fandom, I've gotten pretty good at handwaving it all away and just ignore it and enjoy the pretties, but having a proper explanation does help!

Also, the happy ending definitely a huge plus! :D

Ah, yes. Handwavium Leviosa. I am also an old hand at that little trick. Heee.

Ahaha... that's the first time I've see it being referred to as Handwavium Leviosa! I usually call it the These Aren't The Droid You're Looking for Handwave.

:D

I don't think I made that up. I'm sure I heard it somewhere. LOL

The great fandom osmosis at work. *nods in approval*

Welcome to the party! \o/

I can't read Chinese at all so I'm limited to what of the novel that's been translated to English -- but that does include the epilogues, which I love, they're so sweet! And Priest making the time loop into the explanation for the drama is just beautiful, I love that she reclaimed the story from the drama and made it all her story. (I love the drama too, especially how the actors bring the characters to life -- but I am very glad to have the happy ending that wasn't subject to censorship be the 'real' one!)

And Shen Wei, eeeee!!! I love that novel Shen Wei is a full-on cannibalistic demon king and he's STILL a huge woobie, just, awwww!!

Hee! Thanks! And yes, the whole reclaiming the story thing is kinda awesome and my god, did I needed that happy ending!

I love that novel Shen Wei is a full-on cannibalistic demon king and he's STILL a huge woobie, just, awwww!!

Oh god yes, and he just can't say no to ZYL, like, at all. Sigh....

Welcome, fellow Boni victim! I have not read the novel, since I have firm opinions on some characterization choices that the novel does differently. One thing to keep in mind about the show is that more things got censored than the showrunners were actually expecting, with the end result that there are artifacts remaining in the show from worldbuilding and background plot points that got cut. This is why there's a globe on Shen Wei's office desk, even though the show isn't set on Earth, and why Wang Zheng is awkwardly referred to as an "energy being" instead of being acknowledged as a ghost. If the explanation for something veered too close to the supernatural or hinted too strongly at reincarnation/gods, it would have had to be changed or cut, and my feeling with a lot of the "Lord of the Guardians"/"Guardian token" and explanation of how Shen Wei's powers are limited or drained in Haixing versus Dixing is that they were cut, because they probably involved more than just re-dubbing dialogue. We're told it's the token that limits Shen Wei's powers, but not how, and Zhao Yunlan is "Lord of the Guardians" or "Lord of the Guardian token," but not what that means. Without an explanation, he seems to take it as the Regent's idiom for Chief of the SID, and Shen Wei never corrects that impression, at least onscreen. It's a great opportunity for theorizing. I love that the drama leaves so much room for different interpretations and theories in fanworks of all sorts.

As for the pendant, I actually love the way that plays out in the drama, that Shen Wei keeps the wrapper from the taste of literal sweetness Zhao Yunlan gives him in the midst of a pretty bleak and bitter existence, as a symbol of the metaphorical sweetness Zhao Yunlan brings into his life. Fandom has a lot of fun with those lollipops, let me tell you. A pendant with a piece of soul in it...is not as unique, let me say, to someone who has inhaled a lot of fantasy, which I have.

Ahh... the great censorship, that explains so much. It reminds me of why I tend to stick with Hong Kong/Taiwanese series instead of those from the mainland, which are generally (in my limited experience) filled with a lot of propaganda that makes me seriously uncomfortable watching.

The whole wrapper thing, I have to admit that my first thought was "Wow, I guess plastic really doesn't biodegrade even after 10,000 years!" which kinda broke the moment for me. Yeah, my brain tend to go to weird places without warning.

I suppose Shen Wei could've put some preservation spell on it or something, but seriously, plastic!! But I do like your interpretation of it though! :D

ETA: In terms of characterisation, I think my brain kinda just mapped the drama version onto the novel version, especially since I pretty much speed read through the novel, so I think I kinda just... *handwave* away some of those, but the characterisation of Da Qing I really do prefer the drama version, the novel version is sometimes funny, but a lot of the time I just kinda wanna smack him. Just out of curiosity, what are your opinions on the characterisation in the novels?

Edited 2019-05-06 14:27 (UTC)

Indeed what does it say about sustainability that the lollipop wrapper lasted 10,000 years and still looks good as new. Does Haixing have recycling? We will never know. I have not read the novel either, if it comes out in actual book form nicely translated, I might someday. I have skimmed discussions about it enough to be familiar with the basics.

Edited 2019-05-06 14:30 (UTC)

LOL! They should totally have recycling! I mean, there's only so far they can bury all the rubbish before it all ends up falling into Dixing's domain and they have trash falling out of their "sky".... (ok, ok, it probably isn't a simple thing to just dig your way to Dixing, but that's where my brain went, I've stop questioning where these thoughts come from).

Well, whoever it is who volunteers to translate it, good luck to them. Its a seriously daunting task since some parts of the text uses language that's quite similar to classical Chinese especially the bits to do with the past/mythologies etc. Trying to get those translated accurately and not lose the descriptions/imagery that the language inherently carries with it is very challenging.

I always figured, when the Hallows stuck Shen Wei in stasis during his dirtnap, everything on his person was also in stasis. Otherwise, how did his clothing survive for 10K years? Weapons, sure, but pretty much everything else he had on him would at least be in an advanced state of decay, and likely turn to dust as soon as it was exposed to air. I mean, this is a serious problem archaeologists deal with working with mummies less than half as old.

Really, even before I got to any of the secondary characters, or much into the rest of the characterization of Shen Wei and Zhao Yunlan/Kunlun, I ran straight into one of my number one pet peeves of all time: rigid top/bottom roles. I peace out of even shortish fanfic for that, and this is a novel.

That dirtnap thing was another thing that didn't quite make sense to me, but again, my handwaving-fu is quite strong, so I didn't question it too much at first go. Also, different soil/bacteria composition that don't decay as much? LOL!

rigid top/bottom roles.
Huh.... I don't really find that in the novel? From the Chinese fanfic I've managed to stomach, that seems to be an issue, but the novel itself I don't find that to be a problem? Though again, I pretty much speed read through it and its not something that I'd automatically pick up unless its really overt (like in the fanfics), so I didn't really notice it?

Frankly, we have ZYL keep referring to SW as his "wife", but then SW seemed to be the one calling the shots in the relationship most of the time IMO... Might have to do a slower re-read to see if the original source has this theme and I just missed it or something.

Having been exposed to quite a lot of Japanese BL in my time one thing I LOVED about the novel was that the top/bottom dynamics were so fluid? It's not difficult to believe the thing I heard where Priest settles on the roles by tossing a coin before she writes the fade to black scene!

I wouldn't go with "wife" in a show context where we can make Haixing a happy non-PRC place with no homophobia... But in the context of the novel, it's something I'm able to deal with. (Especially since the "wife" is an immortal demon king!)

And a lot of the time the 'wife' comment is said kinda jokingly/teasing, so I have slightly less problem with that in the novel, and frankly, in the context of the novel where it IS set in China, I'm not sure there's a word in he cultural context (yet) that gives the meaning of spouse other than 'wife'. I mean, I suppose one can say 'life partner' or 'my other half'...? I haven't really lived in Asia for a looong time, so I honestly have no idea how the LGBT community there would call their partners.

I also kinda find it hilarious that yes, 'wife' is indeed an immortal kick ass demon/ghost king, yet he's still the one picking up all the mess in ZYL's flat and cooking for him. Like, WTF ZYL?! Mama Zhao in the novel is right, SW is too good for you! :P

Huh, that's fascinating to me -- one of the main reasons I love the novel is because it so flaunts the standard heteronormative seme/uke dynamics I'm used to from Japanese BL. Having Zhao Yunlan, the enthusiastically experienced and openly bisexual pursuer, bottom to the shy, polite professor who cooks and cleans, is really not what I expected from the genre. Rumor has is that the novelist Priest flips a coin to decide who actually tops in bed, and I can totally believe it (and it makes it easy for me to imagine in switching! Easier still in Guardian when we never actually see the sex itself anyway.) Out of curiosity do you remember what part of the novel did give you such a strong sense of rigid roles?

ETA Also, apologies for just diving in here...I really enjoy the novel myself but I get why people don't, different strokes etc, I wasn't trying to come across like a challenge ^^;;

Edited 2019-05-09 23:12 (UTC)

Hello and welcome! Shen Wei and Zhao Yunlan are A LOT to deal with, it's no wonder they have totally taken over your brain! I like to think I am calming down a bit, but I'm pretty sure I stopped eating and sleeping for 2 solid months after I fell into this fandom. I watched the drama first and then read what was translated of the novel. It was so cool to see some of the parallels between the two worlds, and it seems that both the actors read it, so IDK perhaps I was projecting :D but I could see the way they were each inspired by the novel characters, even as they changed them a lot, too. I can't wait for the rest to be translated, but I think it will be a while.

Also, I noticed one of your avis is of Arthur. Are you are a Merlin fan, too?

Anyway, welcome!

Ahahaha.... oh god, its been a while since I've been sucked into a fandom this quickly. And yeah, I think I know what you mean about projecting, I'm pretty sure I've projected the drama characterisation onto the novel characters, which kinda works...?

Ah, Merlin... that was quite a few fandoms ago but yeah, I was into it for a while. I have so many fandoms... :D

I’m actually sooo happy you feel this way? It’s so exciting to watch the drama and have the things that confused your things you just see DIDN’T work be explained by the source material. For me, the most obvious is the name GUARDIAN and the story behind that. Was so BREATHLESS and excited when the explanation came up, what a neat idea! I love the drama because of the actors and think they did a job conveying Shen Wei and Yunlan’s characters, and I think the drama is charming as well, but sometimes the novel offers some eureka moments that is less frequent in the drama (wtf moments are more frequent, haha)

(Am subscribing to you as I’d love to see you’re descent in to guardian! Welcome to fandom!)

Hee! Thanks! And yep, there were a whole lot of lightbulbs going off in my head as I read through the novel.

I see that you're from Melb! Yay! Well, ok, I'm from Melb but currently in the UK. :D

I’m a little bit the opposite! Not from Melbourne but living here! Are you in the UK permanently or do you expect to come back to Melbourne? At least is the weather more predictable in the UK?

Hope you're enjoying it there in Melb! I do miss the food!

I'm in UK for work for now, but will see if I can get permanent residency in a couple of years. Not sure if I'll stay here long term, depends on work really. Also, a lot easier to travel from the UK than from Melb. Can't just pop by to Europe for a weekend when there's cheap fares. ;)

Hey, welcome!!

I watched the series first and then read the novel (up to where the translation has got to), and I think it's interesting to see the things from the novel that the show runners did manage to translate into the series, while having to handle things like the ban on supernatural content, and that Shen Wei & ZYL's relationship couldn't explicitly be acknowledged as a romance. But yeah, going from soul fire to lollipop wrapper?? Not really the same thing :D

I love a lot of things about the novel: I love all the supernatural content, and moments like Zhao Yunlan coming out to his mum. And although the translation isn't at that point yet, I've always been so happy to know that they get their happy ending!

Thank you! In terms of the novel, I do love ZYL's mum's in the novel! And his dad seemed a bit less of a dick in the novel as well, though I sometimes can't quite tell whether it was actually his dad or was he being possessed...this part was a bit clearer in the drama I think which I suppose its easier with visual cues like the eyes flashing and all that which isn't that obvious via text.

The whole supernatural thing makes a lot more sense than the sci-fi aspects in this context to be honest. I suppose with so much things they needed to change for it to even pass the censorship board, a few things slipped through that ended up not making sense.

Oh god, I seriously bow down to whoever it is who's translating this to English, it is not the easiest text to translate given that some of the language used is pretty close to Classical Chinese with all the history/context of the language imbued into each character.... Yeah, its a huge task.

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Rabbit Hole that is this show/novel...

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