A couple of fic-writing related questions

[likealeafonthewind]

Hi all, I'm wondering if there's a fandom consensus on a couple of things:

1. what to call the different groups of people that occupy Haixing
    a. Haixingren/Dixingren/Yashouren
    b. Haixingian/Dixingian/(Yashou...?)
    c. Other

 

2. how to tag fics that take place in the past so that they can be more easily found by readers who may be looking specifically for them
    a. War Era (an existing tag but not specific to Guardian)
    b. Ten Thousand Years Ago (not currently an established tag but could be if enough people use it)
    c. Other


ETA: I'm going to try to summarize the discussion from the comments:

1. It sounds like most people would go with Dixingren and Yashou, but Haixingren vs humans seem to be pretty evenly split.

2. I think the general consensus is that the novel and the drama should have their own, separate fic tags for the past, because their backstories and timelines are so different. And anyone writing a blended fic could use both tags. So maybe Ten Thousand Years Ago or Old Haixing/Ancient Haixing/Ye Olde Haixing for the drama history fics (yeah, I know, it hasn't been narrowed down at all)? Not many suggestions so far for the novelverse fics specifically but I personally think Kunlun Era (from qikiqtarjuaq works well for it, since IIRC, Kunlun precedes almost everyone and everything else there, including Shen Wei). So basically...still an open, ongoing discussion.

Comments

[xparrot]

1) I don't have a preference myself, though I've taken to using "Haixing/Dixing" as adjectives as well as placenames, and then "Haixingren/Dixingren" for the people.

2) I was just looking for a tag for that myself! Ten Thousand Years Ago has potential ("War Era" maybe wouldn't apply either for fic set before the war started, or for canon-AUs set in the past (I don't know if either exist, but they might?)

[mecurtin]

What do you think of Young Shen Wei Era, for the long-ago parts of either novel or drama?

[china_shop]

Is there an advantage to having one tag for both canons?

[ranalore]

1. It hasn't come up in my fic yet, but I'll be using Haixingren/Dixingren/Yashouren for the people when it comes up, and "Haixing/Dixing/Yashou" as adjectives, most likely.
2. Huh. That's a very good question. I don't think I actually tagged my fic with anything except "spoilers through episode 36," which I figured gave people the context to know the era in question, but that doesn't actually help if what you're writing doesn't deal with the canon timeline. I'd be inclined to go with Ten Thousand Years Ago, because it's more specific, and allows for non-War Era work (planetfall, for example, though that was actually much farther back than ten thousand years ago).

[qikiqtarjuaq]

I prefer a) or sometimes I just write "Haixing citizen" or "people from Haixing" which is... a bit more wordy.

I don't believe we have a tag for the past! Kunlun Era maybe?

[china_shop]

I don't believe we have a tag for the past! Kunlun Era maybe?

Ooh! *hearts* But would that include pre-Kunlun fic, like earlier Shen Wei or Ye Zun backstory?

And now I'm wondering about "bb!Shen Wei Era" as an alternative and am a little ambivalent.

[qikiqtarjuaq]

Hmm, yeah, there's no real catchy way to encompass the much earlier canon points. When exactly did the meteor hit? I can't remember if bb Shen Wei and bb Ye Zun had ever lived pre-meteor? But that might be a useful time marker if that were true.

[melannen]

There is one AO3 tag so far that references Xiao Shen Wei! I couldn't tell if it was referring to an era or a kink dynamic, but "Xiao Shen Wei Era" sounds adorable.

[mecurtin]

An Era doesn't have to match a person's life, specifically, so Kunlun Era would work.

I would say Old Haixing Era, except Haixing isn't in the novel.

Young Shen Wei Era would be a name to cover both the afore-times of the novel and of the drama.

[bonibaru]

What if Kunlun isn't in the story?

[china_shop]

1. I tend to say Dixingren, Yashouren (or just Yashou; yes, horribly inconsistent /o\), and Human. I've never thought of using Haixingren for people of Haixing. If I did, I wouldn't be sure if it included Yashou (and the occasional naturalised Dixingren-in-hiding), since they live in Haixing too...

2. I like "Ten Thousand Years Ago", but I'm not sure if it would work for people writing novel canon (which is why we used the more general "historical canon setting" for the 520 Exchange). Does anyone know if the historical parts of the novel are set 10,000 years ago too?

[starandrea]

1. I tend to say Dixingren, Yashouren (or just Yashou; yes, horribly inconsistent /o\)

I'm with you on the question of Dixingren vs Yashou, though! Dixing is a place, and Yashou is a type of person, so even though using -ren (or any English version of the "people" suffix) is correct for both in Chinese, I feel like it's more common in English to use a -"people" suffix for natives of a location and less common to use it for people with a particular characteristic. Like saying "Califnornians" versus "Blondes."

I've never thought of using Haixingren for people of Haixing. If I did, I wouldn't be sure if it included Yashou (and the occasional naturalised Dixingren-in-hiding), since they live in Haixing too...

I also feel affinity for this! :) Since the shows says there were people on Haixing before the arrival of the spaceship, I feel like there's an argument that could be made for "Haixingren" as a label for the descendants of those original pre-spaceship people specifically, but also a more inclusive "we're all one people" argument for welcoming everyone on the planet (who can after all trace their family history on Haixing back 500 generations, give or take) under that name.

[mecurtin]

The historical (or more properly mythical) parts of the novel are set 5000 years ago, which is my big objection to "Ten Thousand Years Ago" as a tag.

[trobadora]

Huh, that's interesting! I've been using Haixingren and humans interchangeably myself.

[melannen]

In my head I call Dixing people "Earth Masters" and Yashou people "Shapechangers" but that is just because I have the Riddle-Master Trilogy deep in my personal mythology.

More seriously, I like either "Yashouren" or "Yashou people" or maybe even "Yashou folk", parallel to things like "fairy folk" or "mountain folk" in Anglo fantasy, depending on how well that would work with your other translation choices.

In terms of tags - I would actually suggest promoting something that is Guardian-specific. Does the war have a name? Or can we come up with a name for it? Like " Old Dixing War Era" or something? Kunlun Era might work! (I don't know canon on that well enough to have good ideas, alas.)

Among other reasons, "fandom-specific" tags (that will probably never be used in any other fandom) are treated differently in the backend than "multi-fandom" tags, and are much more likely to become canonical right now (even more specifically, making new multi-fandom tags canonical is a very slow process right now because reasons, and making new canon-specific tags canon is a lot easier and faster for the wranglers.)

[melannen]

Also, I have just checked, and there is no fandom-specific era tag that's been used more than once on AO3 (including, afaict, the chinese ones). So the field's open!

And honestly, we don't even have to be consistent - we just have to use ones that are specific enough that it's clear what's meant, and that are clearly Guardian-specific, and the tag wrangler will figure out how to turn them all into one canonical.

[solo]

For fic, I'd use Dixingren, Human (because clearly that's what the standard Haixingren like Zhao Yunlan are meant to represent), and Yashou.

For the subs, Human and Yashou are the same, but I've picked 'Dixing people' or sometimes 'this guy from Dixing' because I didn't like the prevalent 'Dixingians' and found Dixingren too inaccessible for people new to the series.

[extrapenguin]

1b) Dixingian, Haixingian, Yashou. In Chinese, I am a 芬兰人 with the 人 meaning -ian, -ese, -ish, or one of the other demonymic endings English is afflicted with. Based on my principle of "which option sounds least ridiculous" I would call the people Dixingians. (Were they to speak a separate language, OTOH, I think I'd call that Dixingese? Hmm.)

2c) Past Era.

[bonibaru]

Past Era is simple and covers all canons.

[likealeafonthewind]

Your point about the language is interesting - I agree that I'd call it Dixingese but it makes me wonder why there isn't a language specific to their group, especially if they've been living separately for 10k years. At the very least, even just a regional dialect difference? A difference in accent and slang?

[lannamichaels]

#2: What about "Guardian Historical Era"?

works for me

[mecurtin]

This is good, I endorse!

Or Guardian Past Era, that works too.

[likealeafonthewind]

Oh, that could work! It's both specific to Guardian and general enough to apply to both novelverse and dramaverse fics.

[mekare]

I have no real preference for 1) though I prefer Yashou over Yashouren.

Re 2) yes please please there NEEDS to be a tag for BB Shen Wei so I can find fic more easily. I like Guardian 10.000 years ago, I also like Guardian past era. I am in favour of having separate tags for novel and drama canon since the backstories are so different (and I am already not liking the arbitrary tagging with novel or drama fandom when a fic clearly is one or the other).

Though I love the idea of Kunlun era, I think it would be confusing if an author uses it in fic for pre-Kunlun events and Kunlun never actually appearing (which is something I’d expect if I read fic with that tag).

[likealeafonthewind]

(which is something I’d expect if I read fic with that tag)

Good point! Though now I'm wondering if we should also tag Kunlun as a character for fics that do feature him, even though he's actually Zhao Yunlan in disguise....