Naming conventions

[bonibaru]

I know this was discussed before but I'm just doing a pulse check for preferences in fanfiction. I read the various posts on formal/informal addresses and how readers of Chinese fiction are used to seeing names, and that was all very helpful.

Am writing a very ... long ... story that switches POV between Zhao Yunlan and Shen Wei for different sections.

Shen Wei is always Shen Wei no matter whose POV it is or who is addressing him.

Chu Shuzhi and Shen Wei are close allies/friends in this story, so I usually refer to him as Chu Shuzhi when writing in Zhao Yunlan's point of view, and Lao Chu when in Shen Wei's point of view (unless he names him when speaking to another person, and then he is Chu Shuzhi - also when Shen Wei addresses him by name in front of another person he is Chu Shuzhi). Is this OK/correct? Should he be Chu Shuzhi always? Is Lao Chu too informal/disrespectful for two men who were basically raised together and work together closely in the backstory?

Zhao Yunlan is Zhao Yunlan at all times, except when I've been writing from his POV I've been writing "Yunlan" mostly just so I can keep the sections straight when I'm jumping around in the story. In the final edit for publishing, is it OK to leave it as Yunlan when we are reading from his POV, or do I have to go back and find/replace to Zhao Yunlan through the whole thing?

Examples:

Zhao Yunlan point of view:

Yunlan hoped that things would go back to normal soon. He felt bad that they had barely seen each other for a week; he found himself missing Shen Wei’s idle chatter, and the way his face would light up when he was happy about something. Shen Wei had only really ventured out of his bedroom in the evening to join him for dinner, and he insisted on always preparing Yunlan’s tea himself, an effort which was genuinely appreciated.

Shen Wei point of view:

Lao Chu’s disapproving silence lasted the full length of their walk back, but as soon as they were inside and the door had closed behind them, he crossed his arms over his chest and opened his mouth to speak. Shen Wei held up a hand to forestall him. “Don’t,” he said. “It had to be done.”

When they returned, Shen Wei apologetically disappeared into his bedroom with the excuse that he needed to write down his plans before he forgot them all. Zhao Yunlan did not seem to mind it, only telling him that he had sent for dinner and that he would call Shen Wei when the food arrived. He proposed that they eat together, and Shen Wei politely accepted the invitation.

Seeing Zhao Yunlan waiting for him at the gate had been a surprise, though not an unpleasant one.

Comments

[mecurtin]

I get the impression (from the posts, and from watching the eps) that Chinese people are more fluid and code-switchy with names than English-speakers are used to.

So, for instance, if they grew up together I don't think Shen Wei would call (or think of) Chu Shuzhi as Lao-Chu a lot of the time, because CSZ isn't older or more senior than him. He might call him that in a group at the SID, but he might well call him Chu-dì.

Basically, either go with what you're doing or get a Chinese-speaker to help, I'm talkin' out my butt here.

[bonibaru]

In my AU Chu is a little older, though not much, and they grew up together. So Lao Chu is an affectionate nickname Shen Wei uses for him in his own POV only and in fact now that I think about it, rarely do they address each other by any particular name. Shen Wei has a formal title that Chu uses and SW doesn't really ever call Chu by a name unless he's talking to someone else about him and he never uses the nickname, only the formal name, in that context. I wonder if Chu-ge would be more apt, but it felt TOO familiar for them mostly because of Ye Zun and Shen Wei not really wanting to use -ge for a friend when he already has a -di.

[jo_lasalle]

I find just 'Yunlan' a little distracting (though would probably get used to it on a fic basis); I tend to prefer a 'neutral' sounding name in people's own POV, and to me that's 'Zhao Yunlan' (by now). I don't think anyone including Zhao Yunlan when he talks about or to himself ever uses 'Yunlan' in the series except... Ye Zun. *g*

Just answering on 'preferences', though; if you're primarily asking for 'correctness based on same use as in Chinese media' (I wasn't sure) I've got no data.

[extrapenguin]

anyone including Zhao Yunlan when he talks about or to himself ever uses 'Yunlan' in the series except... Ye Zun. *g*
Shen Wei does, too! Mostly at the end of the series. (Ye Zun calls him "my xiao-Yunlan", which is OTT and excessive, much like Ye Zun himself.)

[jo_lasalle]

Oh, right! It's just That Special Time though, isn't it?

[extrapenguin]

Shen Wei says "Yunlan" on several occasions, IIRC, but yes, Ye Zun only says "my xiao-Yunlan" the once. (Though now I want the crackfic where he says it every time he adresses Zhao Yunlan, lol!.

[asya_ana]

LOL I floved that part <3

[bonibaru]

I started it because this story is 40k and will be 70-90k before it's done and switching headspaces was easier when writing if I just used Yunlan when he's in his own POV. But I can find/replace all of them in the final edits before posting; if I do one chapter at a time it won't be so bad lol.

[jo_lasalle]

FWIW, just to be compulsively completist, if I'd known this was a fantasy-ish, floofy-history-ish AU, my answer would have looked different. In an AU that is likely to have an impact on a character's self-perception, I'm much more likely to just roll with the author's choice of what the guy is going to call himself in this universe. I mean, maybe not "Sparkleprince Yunlan", but by and large, it can be part of the worldbuilding.

Not that this is terribly relevant, but see above!

[bonibaru]

dying at sparkleprince yunlan

[extrapenguin]

My gutfeel is that I'd switch the lao-Chu and Chu Shuzhi around, so that it's Zhao Yunlan who calls him lao-Chu as a sign of distance. Of course, I'd also always call him Chu Shuzhi in marration and lao-Chu only in dialogue. Same for "Yunlan" - Zhao Yunlan in narration, Yunlan only in dialogue.

[bonibaru]

In the setting of this AU, Zhao Yunlan is royalty and no one would call him just Yunlan in dialogue except his very close childhood friends when speaking to each other about him. Zhao Yunlan would not be that distant or familiar with Chu, they do not have a relationship prior to meeting in the AU. Chu is in effect Shen Wei's bodyguard and they grew up together and work closely together on a secret thing; I didn't make that setting clear, my apologies.

[extrapenguin]

Ah! In that case, Zhao Yunlan for his-POV narration and his title (the Emperor, the Crown Prince, the Lord of Zhao, etc) for other-POV narration (swapping to Zhao Yunlan at some suitably dramatic point). And Chu Shuzhi always, unless Zhao Yunlan would know him with a title, in which case Marshal Chu or whatever his title is.

[jo_lasalle]

OMG the story is THAT ONE? And it's halfway there?? :DDD

[bonibaru]

If this isn't at least halfway I'm going to be writing this to my GRAVE

[asya_ana]

*squeaks along with you*

[solo]

I have no idea about most of this, but using just Yunlan when in Zhao Yunlan's own head would seem plausible to me.

[bonibaru]

it did to me when I started writing, lol

[zeest]

If Shen Wei refers to CSZ as Lao Chu and Zhao Yunlan uses Chu Shuzhi, I would interpret it as an AU where Shen Wei and CSZ have known each other for a long time and are quite close, and that Shen Wei is (or was) comfortable enough around CSZ to drop the formalities. Also, their shared history does not include ZYL (and other SID members, if they too do not use Lao Chu). If that’s your intention, then it works for me :D I don’t think it’s too informal, but Shen Wei being Shen Wei, it would indicate that there’s some significant history there.

I have a slight preference for Zhao Yunlan remaining Zhao Yunlan in his POV, but it’s a small thing that I would probably get over and not notice after a while.

[bonibaru]

You have hit the backstory right on the head. That is precisely who they all are to each other.

This thing is going to end up between 70k-90k words and I just was dreading the find/replace to set it all back to ZYL in his own POV sections, but it really wouldn't be that much work, I suppose.

[asya_ana]

I think the novel is a good index, because you can see what the characters are calling themselves in their own heads (not that in reality we ever call ourselves anything in our own heads -- I am not sitting around being like "ASYA HANGRY" lol). But yes, in the novel he's Zhao Yunlan. As I mentioned in my language post, it's only one character more, so in Chinese it doesn't feel like a big deal, and also the characters are said as kind of smush, so in terms of time it takes to speak, it goes by fast.

In terms of writing, I've been doing a lot of ZYL and SW, and then doing a find and replace at the end. It's definitely a PITA and it's not always perfect (make sure you make your F&R case sensitive! I learned the hard way lol).

Also I think you're using Scrivener? If so, I think they have a customizable autocomplete tool you could use for character names to save you some typing. I might have to look into that....

Does SW call Lao Chu "Lao Chu" in the show? *scans sadly through poor memory*. My hunch would be that's odd, but since your AU is different anyway, you should do what's right for that! It sounds like ZYL would be more formal and maybe SW could calls LC "Lao Chu". The real question is, who calls him Chu-ge? ;)

[bonibaru]

I have other projects in Scrivener but this one in a G-doc since there are two sort of co-authors who have been rolling along in the process with me. But I do really want to get back to Scrivener for future projects. I got used to having a corkboard for writing, so much so that I've been pasting images into this G doc to keep me from getting bored with all the WORDS.