What the characters call themselves and each other

[mecurtin]

I just put a link in the Resources post about a great post from foxghost about What characters call each other (and themselves) in Guardian [the novel], including the fact that Daqing basically uses the royal We, while Zhao Yunlan plays around with pronouns and names based on his mood.

I yearn for some of you native speakers to do the same for the drama. What pronouns do the characters use for themselves? And what do they call each other? Apparently in the novel ZYL uses an array of cringe-worthy endearments for Shen Wei; does he do anything at all similar in the drama?

Comments

[lynndyre]

asya_ana had a post with most of the nicknames actually! Here.

I think the only endearment in the drama is that single 'Xiao Wei' in ep 21, though.

[mecurtin]

Yes, that post has the nicknames, but not who uses them ... although they seem to be much more consistent in the drama, there aren't as many variations.

Are all the pronouns modern & conventional? It's really a pity they didn't keep Daqing using the Emperor's pronoun.

Only one endearment, but I just re-watched the scene and they sure make it count!

[extrapenguin]

The Envoy calls himself 本使 ("this Envoy") and we hear Chu Shuzhi use his own name in stead of a pronoun once when speaking to the Envoy. I'll keep an eye out during the rewatch!

[trobadora]

Oh, cool! I'm going to have to pay attention to that.

[qikiqtarjuaq]

The more I think about the single Xiao Wei, the more I am upset over the fact that Zhao Yunlan's blindness meant he never got to see Shen Wei's priceless "my brain has short-circuited" look at that nickname. No doubt if he'd seen that reaction, he'd have used that nickname a lot more!

[naye]

Also that they didn't add any Xiao Wei in the flashback, which was what I thought they were setting up for!

[kaminikaku]

definitely! I suppose once they compressed the flashback into the ambiguous time length they couldn't have the meet cute, the smile for me, the lollipop shoving and ....yeah there was definitely time for a xiao wei, they just forgot!

[mecurtin]

My theory is that when ZYL used it in the long-ago they were both naked, so it couldn't be shown in the flashback. Logic!

[kaminikaku]

I am on board with this logic. Definitely a reason!

[trobadora]

That's what everyone thought, I'm sure!

(I think at one point we speculated that there was another scene in the time travel sequence that was cut. IIRC we arrived at that idea because it's cut so weirdly that it makes it look as if it all takes place in one day, and a missing bit in between might change that. But really, it was so obviously set up for ZYL to call him Xiao-Wei in the past! And then ...)

[firestar]

Oh, no doubt. We wuz robbed, *robbed* I say. XD

[yantantether]

Omg you're so right!

[trobadora]

No doubt if he'd seen that reaction, he'd have used that nickname a lot more!

Heh. I'm sure he would! Though it does lose effectiveness with repetition, so I'm almost glad he didn't?

[lynndyre]

Oh man. Yes, now I really wish that. <3

[mecurtin]

Does SW call ZYL plain "Yunlan" at any point, do you recall?

[solo]

IIRC only once, in his head, when he gets recaptured in Dixing after helping Zhao Yunlan get away (or so he thinks).

[naye]

Seconding very much needing this kind of resource! The drama definitely doesn't have as much in the way of endearments, but there's definitely patterns in what the characters call each other? For example I think Xiao Guo calls Zhu Hong "Hong-jie", but I think Zhao Yunlan does too on occasion? Unless I'm misremenbering. Which I might be! (And different people in the SID call him "Chief Zhao" and "boss" and "Lao Zhao" but I don't know if anyone there calls him anything else other than the rare "Zhao Yunlan"?)

[firestar]

ZYL calls her Hong-jie at least once that I remember, I think it's during the 'in your heart, no one can compare to Shen Wei' conversation? I could be wrong, but I think it's then.

And yeah, I was expecting it in the flashbacks and was confused when it didn't happen, based on how strongly Shen Wei reacted to it.

[mecurtin]

Obvs. they couldn't show it because they were naked at the time.;D

[firestar]

Fair point. XD

[mecurtin]

I think I saw someone (rageprufrock, maybe) say that ZYL at some point calls the Envoy "Hei Lao-gege"--but she may have been talking about the novel instead of the drama. Does this ring a bell for you?

[naye]

I have been listening for it but literally the only -gege I can remember is the improvised one in episode 25? Hopefully someone else will have a timestamp or something!

[mecurtin]

Aha yes that's at 14:44 in that cringe-fest ep. And wow, Shen Wei is NOT having any of it. Interesting, given how many cringey endearments novel!ZYL apparently uses ....

[qikiqtarjuaq]

ZYL frequently calls The Envoy Hei Lao-ge, Old Brother Black. But I don't think he ever days Hei Lao ge-ge. Only in 25 does he say "Hei Pao ge-ge." I'm annoyed by how awkwardly Hei Lao-ge translates into English though, so I tend not to use it in fic.

[mecurtin]

What is the implication or "feel" of Lao-ge in Chinese culture? Is it a common sort of expression, or unusual? Does ZYL call The Envoy -ge without the Lao?

I'm guessing that every time the subtitles say "Bro X", the speaker has said X-ge. Is the -ge as casual as "bro"?

[qikiqtarjuaq]

Lao-ge is literally "old brother," and it's an affectionate but not overly intimate address. It's still not all that appropriate given the Envoy's status, but it's something you could comfortably call a colleague that you're friendly with. He never called the Envoy -ge without the Lao, but if he did use Heipao-ge it would feel a little more affectionate to me? Like on par with Bai Yu always calling Zhu Yilong, Long-ge.

-ge is a super common suffix used to call people from friends to boyfriends. And there are different modifiers to change the connotations, like Lao-ge. Or the colloquial shuài gē 帅哥 that sounds like you're calling a dude hot but turns out just to be a casual way of calling a man you don't know. And of course the much flirtier gege when used by an adult.

It's a pain to explain clearly in English! It's one of those "I know what it conveys when I hear it" things, haha.

[trobadora]

While we're talking connotations: can I ask you about 兄? The Envoy calls Zhao Yunlan "Zhao-xiong" once and then, as far as I can tell, never again ...

[qikiqtarjuaq]

It's pretty much interchangeable with -ge but sounds a little more old fashioned to me. It makes me think of wuxia/historical dramas more, especially between fellow disciples and sworn brothers. But people do use it interchangeably enough in modern speech too, so don't take that as gospel!

[trobadora]

Thank you very much! That does make sense to me.

[mecurtin]

"fellow disciples and sworn brothers"
don't mind me, just flailing here

[mecurtin]

What episode?

[trobadora]

Episode 1, their first meeting on the rooftop.

[extrapenguin]

It seems to be the Envoy's means of addressing Zhao Yunlan at the start - I recall it happening in Episode 4 as well. (Though he does also use Chief Zhao.)

[zeest]

This reminds me of something I only noticed on rewatch. In the first episode, Zhao Yunlan tells some random police personnel to call him xiao-Zhao (little Zhao). But he's likely older than them and also outranks them, so if he wants to be friendly with them using "lao" (old) is more suitable? I'm thinking since his dad is also in the same line of work, his dad would be "lao-Zhao" and therefore Zhao Yunlan refers to himself as "xiao-Zhao" when talking to people in the police force, regardless of seniority. Though, of course, the baby police here don't call him that and use Chief Zhao instead.

And then in episode 8 he calls up the university and straights up introduces himself as Shen Wei's good friend, xiao-Zhao. I can't say for sure where on the etiquette scale this falls on but I'm guessing it's at least a little inappropriate. Considering the image Shen Wei is likely to have at the university, just imagine the rumour mill after that call.

[mecurtin]

I absolutely take that scene in Ep 1 as "Don't call me lao-Zhao, that's my father". One of those things that is completely mysterious the first time you watch, but on re-watch is a great bit of characterization.

[mecurtin]

and OMG, that ep 8 scene, Daqing's expression! Judging by him, it is REALLY inappropriate.

[btw, I have added you, because most of my DW is locked]

[trobadora]

I thought it was about his father, too, but that doesn't work with the episode 8 scene. I think he's downplaying himself?

[lynndyre]

I took it as part of his being rudely informal, since he's telling a subordinate to call him something the man can't, with any degree of propriety, actually call him.

[trobadora]

Oh, interesting thought! Though that also only really works for ep1, not for ep8.

[lynndyre]

Yeah, 8 seems more like teasy-flirty-needling at Shen Wei, with the bonus of discommoding an intermediary XD

Professor, I have a call for you from your, uh, your "good friend" "little Zhao"??

(I love Da Qing's face when he says it)

[zeest]

Agree with the comment above, and just adding that I think the context is different in ep 1 and ep 8. In ep 1, he’s xiao-Zhao in the context of the police force because of his dad. The university doesn’t have that connection so in ep 8 when he’s introducing himself as xiao-Zhao, it’s in relation to Shen Wei. It’s not an entirely inappropriate nickname - if Shen Wei is the type to go around referring to people with diminutives he might call ZYL that but this is Shen Wei. The degree of familiarity/informality ZYL is implying raises eyebrows, to say the least.

(It occurred to me that Shen Wei probably uses xiao-Guo and lao-Chu - I don’t remember if he actually does - but everyone in the SID calls them that and he likely will use their full names if talking to a non-SID person. Plus, GCC and CSZ would likely use full names if they had to call up the university.)

Adding a disclaimer that everything here is my own thoughts and interpretation and not necessarily what’s Right. China is huge, regional differences are a thing, and an even larger thing when taking into account migrant communities and I’ve not watched enough cdramas to know how to interpret things like this for dramaland.

[trobadora]

The university doesn’t have that connection so in ep 8 when he’s introducing himself as xiao-Zhao, it’s in relation to Shen Wei. It’s not an entirely inappropriate nickname - if Shen Wei is the type to go around referring to people with diminutives he might call ZYL that but this is Shen Wei. The degree of familiarity/informality ZYL is implying raises eyebrows, to say the least.

Oooh, I like that. ♥

[likealeafonthewind]

I'm so glad you brought this up, I've found it really interesting. I'm just going to add that in episode 15, the Justiciar greets Shen Wei as Hei-pao-dai-ren, which gets translated into Mr. Black Robe, and Zhao Yunlan as the Lord of Zhenhun Token.

我的 小 云澜 Spoilers for episode 34

[sam_gardener]

Spoilers for episode 34

So in ep 34 when Ye Zun is pretending to be Shen Wei he asks where Zhao Yun Lan is, calling him "my little Yun Lan" 我的 小 云澜. After he leaves Wang Zheng says something like "doesn't Professor Shen seem a little off" to Sang Zan. Hard to know if Ye Zun actually imagined that's how Shen Wei would talk about Zhao Yun Lan to others, or if he was messing with them (yeah okay I think he was messing with them). But he didn't get the idea out of nowhere.

Zhao Yun Lan calls himself Zhao Yun Lan when talking to himself, ep 4 comes to mind but I think he does it other times as well. Also at least once I noticed him using "I, Zhao Yun Lan" when speaking to others and it was translated as just "I".