Question about Zhu Hong's dream (ep 31)

[china_shop]

In Zhu Hong's dream (episode 31), Zhao Yunlan seems younger, with less of the aggressively "bad boy" persona he adopts early in canon. He wears a button-down denim shirt untucked and rolled up at the sleeves. His trousers are short enough that they leave an inch or two of bare ankle.

Also, for some reason, Zhu Hong is out doing fieldwork in a dress and high heels. They chase someone (notably, not in a black hoodie), who attacks and then runs off. Then they bicker about Zhu Hong's shoes, and she tells him to head back to the SID first. Which he does, even though their suspect could still be lurking around.

My question: do you think this actually happened? Is this how Zhao Yunlan dressed a couple of years ago? Did Zhu Hong do fieldwork? Or is it a composite fantasy made by the Nightmare Master out of Zhu Hong's various memories -- an action-scene excuse for Zhao Yunlan to hold Zhu Hong and protect her?

Comments

[teaotter]

I think this is all a dream, and has nothing to do with how Zhao Yunlan dressed before. Zhu Hong can't imagine Zhao Yunlan loving her as he is, so she imagines a softer version of him -- but can't make him much softer without it being unbelievable, so this is her compromise.

I think the *scenario* comes from the Nightmare Master, but the dreamer fleshes it out.

[china_shop]

Zhu Hong can't imagine Zhao Yunlan loving her as he is, so she imagines a softer version of him -- but can't make him much softer without it being unbelievable, so this is her compromise.

That makes a lot of sense and neatly explains the scruffiness. I like that approach.

I think the *scenario* comes from the Nightmare Master, but the dreamer fleshes it out.

*nodnod* And that would mean that Chu Shuzhi's dream including a very recognisable Guo Changcheng is an important character point, too. :-)

[miss_ingno]

My first thought is that this is Zhu Hong seeing Zhao Yunlan in a more "respectable" dress-up, like a good boyfriend "should". It matches their levels of dressiness and makes it all a bit more romance movie? So my instinct is to say this is romantic projection on Zhu Hong's level to make them match more and is a sign that this isn't the real Zhao Yunlan, but the one she is in love with in her mind.

[china_shop]

Hee! He's not very tidy, though. If she was making him respectable, wouldn't his shirt be tucked in? *g* But yeah, it makes a lot of sense that Zhao Yunlan's appearance is a product of Zhu Hong's yearning, rather than being fully in character.

And I guess in the show, we get the flipside of that, with Zhu Hong sometimes wearing leather trousers in an attempt to match Zhao Yunlan's rough/cool/leather-jacketed RL style...

(Icon love!)

ETA: Oh, now I'm wondering how much Zhu Hong's clothing is early-SID accurate vs being what she wishes she could have pulled off at that time... Running in high heels?

[trobadora]

It's the same outfit she's wearing in the part of the dream when she's trying to walk in heels and failing, so it could have been what she wore at the time? Clothes are a lot easier to change than learning to walk in heels. *g*

[china_shop]

True, though it's all in the dream, so it could just as easily not have been, right? Maybe she frilled herself up a bit in the fantasy -- no way to know. :-)

[trobadora]

Yeah, no way to know! I just think her wearing that outfit is plausible enough (unlike her running in heels). *g*

[china_shop]

It's quite different in tone from anything she wears later -- all those more structured office clothes. But otoh, maybe as her more feminine wiles failed to catch Zhao Yunlan's interest, she tried different strategies over time... *pets her*

[miss_ingno]

*remembering Lin Jing and Da Qing teasing Zhu Hong when she put on the red dress*

Zhu Hong deserves to dress as flashy as she likes *pets her*

[china_shop]

Ha, yes, though I think that was more about her trying to act sexy than the dress per se? Idk.

She really does! She can totally pull it off, too!

[miss_ingno]

If she was making him respectable, wouldn't his shirt be tucked in? *g*

Maybe she can't imagine him being THAT respectable even in her wildest dreams xD XD XD

And I guess in the show, we get the flipside of that, with Zhu Hong sometimes wearing leather trousers in an attempt to match Zhao Yunlan's rough/cool/leather-jacketed RL style...

That is *such* a good point. Honestly, now I want some meta about Zhu Hong's clothing choices and character development. What is her style and what is her trying to blend in with expectations of female Haixingren?

(Icon love!)
💖

[china_shop]

That meta would be awesome! *wants too*

I'd say that presumably her choices by the end of the show, when she's more comfortable with herself, are more her -- but yeah, they necessarily build on all the things she's tried before.

[trobadora]

I don't think the levels of dressiness compare? He's still very casually dressed, and she isn't.

[miss_ingno]

Yeah fair, it's definitely not on the same level. It still feels more dressy than Zhao Yunlan usually is? like okay, it's a denim jeans shirt, but it's *a shirt* with buttons and stuff, so like. It's a very ZYL way of being a little dressy 😂

in my brain it just visually aligns them more on Zhu Hong's side than they usually are, like how china pointed out that usually Zhu Hong matches ZYL's leather look sometimes. But it's actually a good point that even in Zhu Hong's fantasy, ZYL is only willing to bend so far into this romantic ideal (and he wouldn't be ZYL if he did, lbr, and imo she's into him as he is enough that she wouldn't want that anyway)

[china_shop]

It still feels more dressy than Zhao Yunlan usually is?

I think so, too. I think it's the black trousers that make it seem more respectable than his usual look. And maybe the shoes rather than boots?

[miss_ingno]

Good point!

[autodach]

I don’t think this is a memory, for exactly the reasons you mentioned: Zhu Hong is not a field agent, Zhao Yunlan doesn’t dress this nicely (a low bar, haha), and he wouldn’t just leave while a suspect is still around. I’m not sure about the timeline here, but she couldn’t even walk in high heels yet in her early days at the SID.
This is Zhu Hong’s dream – her fantasy. The nightmare master only needs to give her a push in the right direction and she fills in the rest,

[china_shop]

*nodnod* That makes sense! And then the real Zhao Yunlan shows up as a dramatic contrast to her fantasy. *pets her*

[trobadora]

I've been thinking about this since last night, and here's where I'm currently at.

The scenario itself is the Nightmare Master's, I believe - Zhu Hong might have been along on a few jobs even though she's not a field agent, but that's not how it feels in the scene, and I don't think Zhu Hong could have run in those heels back then (thought she probably wanted that). Also excellent point about Zhao Yunlan just leaving like that. However, I do think the clothes and the look are probably actually ZYL's from that time - the longer I thought about it, the more I felt that he probably wasn't at his scruffiest early on in his position as chief. For one, despite the tensions between them he was on good enough terms with his father that his father recommended him for his job, which wouldn't have happened with ZYL at maximum rebelliousness, and perhaps more importantly, this can't have been ZYL's very first job, and whatever his previous one was, I think it's extremely unlikely it would have let him get away with the kind of presentation we meet him with at the beginning of canon. And I don't think he just switched to his present-day style from one day to the next as soon as he was appointed. *g* So I believe this is a visually accurate representation of ZYL during the early days of his tenure, but in an artificial scenario geared towards appealing to Zhu Hong's fantasies.

[china_shop]

That all makes logical and coherent sense, but I don't think it's the only possible interpretation.

For one, despite the tensions between them he was on good enough terms with his father that his father recommended him for his job, which wouldn't have happened with ZYL at maximum rebelliousness

There are so many ways this could have gone, imo. Shen Wei doesn't know, when he says that, and neither does Zhao Yunlan necessarily. It could have been Zhao Xinci trying to engineer Zhao Yunlan into a leadership position (in a very minor agency, since there are so few cases; and it's not like he thinks Zhao Yunlan is wholly incompetent) for the good of his career advancement. ("Some responsibility will make him pull his socks up!") It could have been Zhao Yunlan applying for the role despite Zhao Xinci's wishes, and Zhao Xinci reluctantly supporting him to promote an appearance of familial harmony (at that stage, Zhao Xinci was still advancing his own career and probably pretty concerned about seeming respectable, especially given Zhang Shi). Or Zhang Shi could have recommended Zhao Yunlan, either out of paternal feeling or to set up the end game. I'm sure there are other possibilities, too. Personally, I find it harder to believe Zhao Yunlan has ever been on good terms with his father, from Zhao Yunlan's end, even if Zhao Xinci might have overcome his pride to make occasional rare efforts to reconcile. But obviously, YMMV!

I don't think he just switched to his present-day style from one day to the next as soon as he was appointed. *g*

I think he could have? It depends how much any attempts at tidying himself up were in tension with how he wanted to dress and how he saw himself. Once he's chief of the SID, he's mostly out of sight from the higher ups, and can slouch around wearing whatever he wants. Who's going to stop him -- Da Qing? Lao Chu? And if his father told him he'd have to smarten up for the role, I can easily imagine him deliberately doing the opposite.

But like I said, your interpretation works, too. That might have been how it went.

[trobadora]

I mean, obviously there are always multiple plausible explanations. I was just explaining how I arrived at mine.

I agree that ZYL was never actually on good terms with his father, but it would make sense to me that he'd held back on active hostilities while trying to be promoted into his father's former position, and that Zhao Xinci might have interpreted that as "the boy's finally starting to shape up". And I don't think Zhao Xinci considers the SID a minor agency, even if in practice it was at that time.

And if his father told him he'd have to smarten up for the role, I can easily imagine him deliberately doing the opposite.

LOL, yeah, that would do it no matter when it happened. Could easily have been after ZYL becase SID chief, too!

[china_shop]

And I don't think Zhao Xinci considers the SID a minor agency, even if in practice it was at that time.

I think if there were next to no cases and no incidents involving Dixingren, he might see it as having fallen from its former glory/status? Especially if the second chief was a kind of ineffectual type, basically a caretaker, and nothing went wrong. Idk.

[trobadora]

Fallen from its former glory, yeah. But I think he's too paranoid about Dixing, in part due to the effects of Zhang Shi's presence on him, and so always low-key expecting a resurgence.

(I wish we knew literally anything about the second chief!)

[china_shop]

Fallen from its former glory, yeah. But I think he's too paranoid about Dixing, in part due to the effects of Zhang Shi's presence on him, and so always low-key expecting a resurgence.

Yeah, that's true. Especially after Shen Xi, too.

Hm, now I'm wondering whether he volunteered a recommendation, or whether the minister at the time approached him after Zhao Yunlan applied.

[china_shop]

P.S. Hey, sorry that my initial impulse was to come up with a list of counter-possibilities! /o\ (I had fun thinking of them, but I'm sorry to have trodden all over your opinion like that. /o\)

If this was Zhao Yunlan's clothing style to start with, when and why do you think it changed? Gradual drift?

In Lao Li's memories as he dies (beginning of ep 37), we only get a head-and-shoulders shot of Zhao Yunlan; he's wearing a white t-shirt and a dark jacket that I think we see at other times too(?). Afaicr, that's the only shot of ZYL from back then.

[trobadora]

No worries! ♥

Gradual drift would have been my guess. But that's an excellent point that we do have another reference for Zhao Yunlan in the early days - I had forgotten about that. It does seem to be the same jacket he's also wearing in episode 1, so he hasn't completely changed over his entire wardrobe. It's also far from his scruffiest outfit, despite the way he lounges on his motorcycle while wearing it. *g* So it could be that his style hasn't changed at all, or perhaps it's shifted towards the scruffier but still has overlap in the middle. (I prefer the latter interpretation myself, but either is reasonable!)

[china_shop]

Yeah, I don't mind either interpretation. I just don't like the idea of his having made nice with his father. I feel like that goes against what we know about his character. But again, YMMV!

[trobadora]

I didn't think I was suggesting he'd made nice with his father, just that earlier in his career he had less leeway to be openly rebellious and hostile, and that he's perfectly capable of gritting his teeth and holding more of it in for something he wants. And he must have wanted the SID job, or no one - least of all his father - could have made him take it.

[china_shop]

I think even when Zhao Yunlan is holding it in around his father, he's so transparent about his antagonism that Zhao Xinci would be in no doubt. But maybe Zhao Xinci wouldn't care so long as Zhao Yunlan was going through the motions. Idk.

[trobadora]

Hmmm, yeah, I think Zhao Xinci's main concern would be keeping up appearances in front of others, more than anything else. And the only person I can remember who knows them both (or thinks he does) - Minister Gao - does think they're on good terms. In that scene in episode 14, ZYL's reaction is very visible to the viewer and to Shen Wei, and no doubt would have been to Zhao Xinci, but Minister Gao doesn't notice at all ...

[china_shop]

Yeah. And given Zhao Yunlan doesn't know Gao Jingfeng knows Zhao Xinci, I don't think Minister Gao would have had a chance to see that reaction earlier anyway.

Idk how I feel about relationship tag: "Zhao Xinci & keeping up appearances (Guardian TV)". I definitely think there's something there, but I'm not sure where I think the line is. The fact that Gao Jingfeng doesn't know there's tension between father and son says something, you're right. And Zhao Xinci is ambitious and wouldn't have wanted any scandal on either of their behalves. But he's also extremely stubborn, kind of autocratic, and bulldozery. Hm, will have to ponder this further.