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sid_guardian2023-09-24 07:05 pm
trobadora) wrote in sid_guardian2023-09-24 07:05 pm
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GUARDIAN REWATCH - Episode 36
Beginning of episode: Lin Jing meets Guo Changcheng at the Inspectorate checkpoint
Ending of episode: The SID team arrives back at the SID at last and finds Lao-Li
Important scenes/developments:
- Lin Jing slips Guo Changcheng a note
- Zhao Yunlan makes Cong Bo hack the Inspectorate. Zhao Yunlan, Shen Wei and Cong Bo witness:
- Professor Ouyang and Minister Gao discussing the serum
- Ye Zun visiting Minister Gao and demanding he give up Zhao Yunlan and Shen Wei
- Vice Minister Guo being arrested
- Zhao Yunlan decides to have a worldwide livestream
- Guo Changcheng and Lin Jing meet in a bathroom
- Zhao Yunlan is on everyone's screen telling them Dixingren are people just like them
- Ye Huo joins forces with Chu Shuzhi at the locust tree
- Fourth Uncle and Ying Chun listen to Zhao Yunlan's speech on the radio
- Lin Jing and Guo Changcheng receive Zhao Yunlan's coded message to steal the serum
- Flashback: Lin Jing and Zhao Yunlan agree on making Lin Jing the SID's spy
- Minister Gao and Zhao Xinci listen to Zhao Yunlan's speech
- Lin Jing and Guo Changcheng are caught by Professor Ouyang; Lin Jing gets away but Guo Changcheng is injected with the serum
- Li Qian helps Guo Changcheng escape with the Hallows
- Lin Jing is captured by Ya Qing and eaten by Ye Zun
- Ye Zun talks about his plans with Mi Lu
- Chu Shuzhi and Ye Huo make plans at the portal
- Flashback: Chu Shuzhi remembers being saved and recruited by the Black-Cloaked Envoy
- Flashback: Chu Shuzhi is about to refuse teaching Guo Changcheng, but Guo Changcheng reminds him of his brother
- Zhang Shi helps Guo Changcheng and talks to him about the Guardian Lantern; Zhao Xinci breaks free and pulls a gun on him, but Chu Shuzhi rescues him
- Ye Zun's vanguard arrives in Haixing, the Nightmare Master among them
- Chu Shuzhi confronts the Nightmare Master; the rest of the SID arrives and joins in
- Guo Changcheng shows his power for the first time with the Nightmare Master
- Three of Ye Zun's vanguard are trying to enter the SID; the team fight them and the Envoy convinces them they've been duped
- The team enter the SID and find Lao-Li
Structural things:
- We start the episode with a conceit this show really loves: revisiting a previous scene and showing the part that was previously hidden from the viewer. And it's not the only instance in this episode either - apart from Lin Jing secretly slipping Guo Changcheng a note while pretending not to know him, there's also the flashback to Lin Jing and Zhao Yunlan, where it turns out Zhao Yunlan didn't fire Lin Jing, but instead made him the SID's undercover agent at the Inspectorate. ♥
- This episode also has a framing device that works in two different directions, which I really enjoy! For most of the episode until the end, Zhao Yunlan and Shen Wei are at Cong Bo's, and at first, what happens at the Inspectorate is seen through a frame of Cong Bo hacking into their surveillance and them secretly watching. Afterwards, Zhao Yunlan's livestream itself becomes a framing device for several scenes of people watching and listening.
The serum and the lab:
- Minister Gao isn't ready to approve distributing the serum despite Professor Ouyang claiming their experiment had almost-perfect results - and telling him they have no choice, the war is coming. It's not until Ye Zun's appearance that he feels threatened enough to say yes.
- Vice Minister Guo, on the other hand, who overhears the talk about the serum and is caught eaves-dropping, rather than quickly leaving before he can be recognised, instead comes in and asks Minister Gao to reconsider - and gets arrested for his troubles.
- But Minister Gao, despite having given his approval, is still not fully on board with the serum project. He tells Professor Ouyang, "It's not only Guo Ying - it's the majority of people at the Inspectorate and even at the Xingdu Bureau who oppose your serum research." (I wonder how many people even know about it - and how Minister Gao knows the majority is against it. Did he poll them, or what? :p) At this point he sounds so dubious about it all that Professor Ouyang has to remind him already approved it, and Minister Gao actually looks a bit taken aback at that! He is absolutely terrible at being consistent; he keeps letting himself be pushed into drastic action in the heat of the moment, only to then doubt his own decisions. He really looks rather overwhelmed and out of his depth here.
- Meanwhile Professor Ouyang is losing it more and more. He punches through a file holder when he gets angry at Minister Gao being so hesitant; later when talking to Li Qian, his delight at his success looks almost indistinguishable from anger as he's practically vibrating out of his skin. His reaction to a jammed door is instantly hulking out and ripping it open by brute force. And that's before we come to him strangling both Lin Jing and Guo Changcheng, and the forceful injection of the serum!
(When Li Qian and Professor Ouyang are coming to the lab, she she says she doesn't understand why he injected the serum again - did he give himself a second dose?! Is that why he keeps getting worse?) - Later, Lin Jing tells Guo Changcheng that Professor Ouyang is inside doing the injections now, so it's the best time for them to talk. So the serum is now in use - though we don't ever see who it's used on.
- Li Qian, faced with all this, makes a major decision: she's been helping the SID secretly all along, but now she's helping Guo Changcheng escape, and hands over the Hallows to him - pretty dangerous, considering how Professor Ouyang is treating people he perceives as traitors! But she doesn't hesitate. I love her.
Ye Zun:
- Everything about Ye Zun in this episode is incredibly striking. Not just the fabulous (and fabulously dramatic) outfit, white suit and golden mask and cane and all, but also the way he's presented, and presenting himself. The camera is often tilted when showing him, giving him a visual edge - but on top of that, he himself tilts his head, leans into or against things and people all the time, reinforcing and mirroring that tilt. He menaces not just Professor Ouyang, but later also Ya Qing, despite her working for him. He moves slowly, languidly almost, very deliberate and provocative and extra; he's arrogant, condescending, and playful - and the result is delightfully unhinged and threatening. ♥
- Ye Zun claims to be at the Inspectorate to "build bridges between our sides", and offers them a chance to avoid the war if they hand over Zhao Yunlan and Shen Wei. Note that he doesn't say he'll withdraw if they do - only that he'll consider maybe withdrawing! (And Shen Wei watches him say all this, having so many feelings ...)
Minister Gao tells Ye Zun he'll consider his offer (even Professor Ouyang looks shocked!), but never actually does, proving that he's not actually evil, just incompetent. :p He really isn't the smartest cookie - he says Zhao Yunlan and Shen Wei don't deserve to be betrayed, and he won't let Ye Zun divide them - but entirely fails to realise that he himself has already done that by turning on the SID! - Ye Zun also heals Ya Qing from whatever Lin Jing injected her with. (It's fascinating to me that this is Lin Jing's weapon of choice, and I really wonder what was in that syringe!) I assume he does it because he still needs her to do her part in his plan, but he makes no secret of it when he's talking to Mi Lu that the Yashou are next in line - not mentioning, though, that Dixingren will be after, as we'll eventually see.
- "The tiniest ant has the will to live. The more you scorn it, the more tenacious it is." - A great line! I assume he's talking from experience here, not that he'd admit it. :p
- We also learn some details about his plans:
- He has blocked the passages underground and aboveground as part of his preparations. (I'm still not quite understanding this passage business - apart from the one in Yashou territory, which he mentions separately, there's only the one between Haixing and Dixing (this is even a plot point next episode!), for which only the Envoy and the Regent are supposed to have permission. So why does it need blocking?)
- He will gradually call his followers to Haixing, and seems to be in no rush about it whatsoever. Perhaps not unsurprising, given that actually conquering Haixing isn't really what he's after.
- He wants Ya Qing to become Yashou High Chief. (Why? Just to get the Yashou under control until he can make a move against them?) But if she turns soft, Mi Lu is to kill her on the spot.
- And he wants the passage in Yashou territory to be closed - I wonder how he knows about it! Perhaps from Ya Qing, if the Yashou elders all know - it doesn't seem to be general knowledge. (Da Qing does, but he knew Ma Gui and was around during that time. Shen Wei doesn't seem to know about it, as far as I can tell.)
Zhao Yunlan's livestream:
- Zhao Yunlan, before telling Cong Bo he wants to talk to all humans, says they can't talk to the Inspectorate any more. I wonder what he hoped to see there instead, and what it would have taken for him to approach them again.
Also, we have escalated from "every netizen in Dragon City" (Cong Bo in episode 34, regarding all the people spreading the leaks about the SID) to "all humans" now! (Of course Haixing isn't Earth, so how large that population actually is, and how much of the planet is inhabited, who knows?) - "Worldwide live broadcast connecting, please wait ..."
Shen Wei stares at the screen, his Adam's apple visibly bobbing. He's worrying - and I can't blame him, because this is such a public move, and he's not used to operating in the public eye like this at all. Aschina_shop said in a comment on nnozomi's excellent scene discussion post for the livestream, what if it all blows up in Zhao Yunlan's face? Also, he's probably worrying about what Zhao Yunlan is going to say. And Zhao Yunlan, seeing his worry, tries to defuse it and joke away the tension by making quips about Shen Wei's lack of understanding for technology. ♥ ♥ ♥ 
- As Zhao Yunlan speaks, we see many different people watching and listening - and for all that his livestream is explicitly directed at humans, there are Yashou and Dixingren prominent among them.
- Dr Cheng at the hospital hears the first words of the broadcast on a public screen.
- Out in the street, Zhu Hong and Da Qing walk past a crowd looking at an outdoors screen. They're wearing coats over their clothes, and baseball caps, attempting to hide their identity - but when they hear Zhao Yunlan's voice, they both look up, happy to see him.
- Lin Jing and Guo Changcheng watch the broadcast on Lin Jing's phone, and Lin Jing switches it off early because he has decoded the message meant for him.
- Chu Shuzhi, at the locust tree by the passage to Dixing, is also watching on his phone.
- Ying Chun and Fourth Uncle listen to his speech on the radio! When Zhao Yunlan said "all humans", Cong Bo took him seriously and thought about how to distribute the message via more channels than just online. *g*
- Cong Bo himself gets rather caught up in Zhao Yunlan's speech - we see him nodding along towards the end.
- Zhao Xinci, in Minister Gao's office, reviews the speech as well, staring at his son's image on the screen and calling him an idiot.
- And of course, last but certainly not least, Shen Wei is watching Zhao Yunlan through all of this, overflowing with emotion. ♥ ♥ ♥
- Zhao Yunlan starts out joking about his own recent fame/infamy, but very quickly turns serious as he begins to talk about the current crisis. And while he's joking, Shen Wei is watching the screen, but when he tells people to "cut it out", Shen Wei turns towards him, and then keeps watching him as he talks about Dixingren, only looking away again when Zhao Yunlan talks to "those that left the team" (i.e. the coded message to Lin Jing). ♥
- Zhao Yunlan's speech about Dixingren being people is so lovely and so eloquent. With a war threatening, he chooses this - he talks about everything Dixingren and Haixingren share, and chastises people for letting those with bad intentions take advantage of them and cause a division. He doesn't bother to talk about the specifics of the rumours and the fearmongering, because they all come down to this, the attempt to divide people into "us" and "them". And Shen Wei, who has lived with that division all his life, who ten thousand years met Kunlun who didn't buy into it at all, who in the present day has watched Zhao Yunlan grow out of buying into it (and has been an essential part of that growth), now gets to listen to this speech which is both the culmination of Zhao Yunlan's development on that score and an expression of a worldview that speaks straight to Shen Wei's heart. Of course he can't look away!
- "Like you, they feel happiness, anger, sorrow and joy, can suffer heartbreak, and suffer death."
The first part of this ("happiness, anger, sorrow and joy") is 喜怒哀乐, an established expression for the emotions of life, and is translated literally. The second part ("suffer heartbreak, and suffer death", 会失恋，会失身) could and perhaps should be translated as "suffer heartbreak, and lose their virginity" - that's the dictionary definition of 失身! - "I'm the wanted criminal Zhao Yunlan. This is my confession." ♥ ♥ ♥
Zhao Xinci and Zhang Shi:
- Zhao Xinci watches his son's message, then pauses the image as the broadcast ends and comments, "Can't look at the long term. Can't tell right from wrong. Can't tell good from evil or life from death. But he insists on risking his life and going it alone. Idiot!"
Compare Zhang Shi in episode 21 telling Zhao Yunlan, "there are four things we mustn't obsess over. First, permanence. Second, right and wrong. Third, good and evil. Fourth, life and death. (...) Holding on to something isn't always a virtue. Becoming too attached may lead to unhappiness, and make you stray from your path. Being too obsessed with right and wrong will make you narrow minded. In this world absolute rights and wrongs are rare. Obsession with good and evil will not let you see anyone as good. It may even make you arrogant, wanting to set the rules yourself and change them at will. Being too obsessed with life and death, your vision will become narrow. In this life, people can avoid at most two of these four. That's why a lot of things can't be scrutinized too closely. So it's not worth your time considering them. Since you've already made your decision, don't wonder if it's right or wrong. Plan your next step instead."
Any thoughts on how these two statements relate to each other, and what they say about Zhao Xinci vs. Zhang Shi? - At any rate, Zhao Xinci and Zhang Shi are now openly on different sides, working against each other: Zhang Shi overrides Zhao Xinci's will and helps Guo Changcheng escape and tells him about the Guardian Lantern; Zhao Xinci breaks free and pulls his gun on Guo Changcheng.
But nevertheless I think it's Zhao Xinci who tells Minister Gao not to bother trying to arrest Zhao Yunlan after they've traced the IP address from the livestream. He's still protecting his son. - From Zhang Shi, we learn that the purest energy is needed to form the wick of the Guardian Lantern, and Guo Changcheng may qualify for that, explaining why Zhang Shi arranged for Guo Changcheng to join the SID in the first place. I always wonder if this is the same process as the sacrifice he later explains to Zhao Yunlan,
Ma Gui and Fu You, thanks to the final Hallows-powered videocall, know that Zhao Yunlan will (be planning to) sacrifice himself to the Lantern; if Ma Gui told his student Zhang Shi about it, then Zhang Shi, having watched Zhao Yunlan grow up and feeling fatherly towards him, may be trying to save Zhao Yunlan from this fate - but is he just trying to substitute Guo Changcheng for Zhao Yunlan as the needed sacrifice, or is there an alternate method of creating a wick? I really wish we could know! - When Guo Changcheng tells Zhao Xinci this doesn't have to turn into a war (according to solo's subs) or a bloodbath (according to the Viki subs), Zhao Xinci says he can't gamble on that - and of course he's right; Haixing can't just do nothing and hope for the best. But on the other hand, turning against the people who are actively trying to prevent this from becoming an all-out war is surely the worst of all options?!
Chu Shuzhi:
- Chu Shuzhi and Ye Huo (who has turned up to volunteer on his own) guard the passage between Haixing and Dixing, and make sure the area is evacuated. Their teaming up is delightful, and full of interesting tension that I never quite know what to make of. Chu Shuzhi thanks Ye Huo for helping the SID despite being Dixingren, and that makes sense to some degree, since the SID has been the enemy of Dixingren in Haixing for a long time - but Ye Huo has been their ally before, and Chu Shuzhi's reaction exposes some fascinating fault lines in his own identity as Ye Huo has to remind him he's Dixingren himself, and he thinks to himself that he used to be Dixingren! His flashback to being saved and recruited by the Black-Cloaked Envoy (who is also Dixingren after all) suggests that his issue is with Dixing as a political entity rather than its people, but it's still a very strange way of putting it.
- The contrasts in the flashback are so striking. On one side we have the Regent at his worst - torturing Chu Shuzhi and deciding "people like him" can never be let free, asking him to repent of avenging his brother, and adding life imprisonment to his sentence when he won't, and very unhappy to be interrupted. (Watch his eyes go wide when the Envoy suddenly appears, and the grimace he makes when the Envoy leaves!) On the other there is the Black-Cloaked Envoy, speaking formally and respectfully to Chu Shuzhi, treating him not as a dangerous criminal but as someone worthy of respect, and not only offering him a way out but explicitly naming his dedication to his brother as a positive quality he wants him to build on. ♥ No wonder Chu Shuzhi's devotion and loyalty to the Envoy is absolute after this moment!
Also, look at the way Chu Shuzhi's focus is entirely on the Envoy from the moment he appears, and the Regent is ignored! :D
(Chu Shuzhi, asked if he repents, claims to have zero regrets about avenging his didi. He has plenty of regrets, of course, but they're all about not saving his brother, not so much about what he did after Nianzhi died.) - The Envoy tells the Regent that the line of Chu Puppet Masters has a long tradition in Dixing, and he can't let it end here. As miss_ingno said on discord: "so... Heipaoshi gonna make sure Chu Shuzhi has kids?" :p
- We also see the moment Chu Shuzhi first saw Nianzhi in Guo Changcheng: Zhao Yunlan had told him to train the newbie, and he's extremely unwilling, outright telling Xiao-Guo that he won't - only to be blindsided to find Xiao-Guo crying over the Envoy fighting to save the world, and talking about wanting to live in peace, just as Nianzhi did! And that's what makes Chu Shuzhi change his mind and give Guo Changcheng a chance.
(Interesting that Guo Changcheng has apparently been reading about the Envoy in the SID library - I wonder what those books say, and if Zhao Yunlan ever read them!) - One more thing: during the fight with the Nightmare Master, Chu Shuzhi does his best to avoid meeting his eyes so he won't be trapped in a dream again - right until the Nightmare Master taunts him with his brother, and he almost succumbs to the temptation to see Nianzhi again, even if only in a dream. Thankfully Guo Changcheng saves him from himself by knocking him out of the way, also conveniently distracting the Nightmare Master so Chu Shuzhi can restrain him. Xiao-Guo has come such a long way!
Other random things:
- Lin Jing's password for his meeting with Guo Changcheng in the men's loo: "Lin Jing, you're so handsome." Which sort of mirrors/matches the terrible password for the starry sky right he made for Sha Ya - at least he does it to everyone? *g*
(Lin Jing really is enjoying all these spy shenanigans - the password, the secret meeting, the code in the livestream ... Despite the high stakes, he's having fun! Which, good for him.) - Speaking of the men's loo, have you noticed this delightful sign? It's a big image of a pipe and the word "MAN"! :D
- The Nightmare Master, who has several times been threatened by Ye Zun for failing to meet his goals, doesn't think too highly of Ye Zun despite working for him - and thinks very highly of himself, LOL. When he and the other three Dixingren come out of the passage, he complains that the boss is soft in the head: mustering large forces to destroy humanity is unnecessary; he can totally subdue them all without that! But given the Nightmare Master's success rate so far, Ye Zun has very good reason not to rely on him too much, LOL.
- The final showdown with the Nightmare Master also reveals what I think is new information: Chu Shuzhi warns everyone not to meet the Nightmare Master's eyes, so that's apparently how he uses his power - not that anyone else seems to be aware of this! I wonder how Chu Shuzhi knows. And whether eye contact is also how it's communicated from one victim to the next?
- Zhao Yunlan manages to wake Zhu Hong from her Nightmare Master-induced sleep by telling her Zhao Yunlan is here and will leave without her if she doesn't wake up, and in exactly the same way, he wakes Da Qing by telling him there's dried fish, and everyone else will eat it all if he doesn't wake up! Delightful. :D
- The little flashback where Da Qing explains what happened after Zhao Yunlan and Shen Wei entered the wormhole seems to be there mainly to fix a plothole - to explain why the Hallows were left at the SID when no one else remained, and why Da Qing couldn't take them with him. But it also shows that the Hallows can refuse to be moved. I wonder if that's because the wormhole was still active, with Shen Wei waiting on the inside, or if they'd have stayed anyway so they could bring Zhao Yunlan back ...
- Zhao Yunlan says that ten thousand years ago, he relied on the collision of Ye Zun's black energy with the energy of the Hallows to open the wormhole. Two remarkable things: First, this makes it all sound much more deliberate than it was, LOL! And second, no one reacts to "ten thousand years" - I wonder if everyone knows about the time travel by now, and which of them told them!
- Guo Changcheng's serum power makes its first, unexplained appearance here - it will be spelled out next episode, but here all we get is his vision of the dying/dead Nightmare Master, whose wish it is for the whole world to surrender to his nightmares. (Charming guy, really.)
- Shen Wei, despite being weakened, examines Guo Changcheng and apparently heals the side effects from the serum without effort. However, when he briefly dons his robes and mask towards the end of this episode, his appearance isn't as smooth as it usually has been. There's no portal he appears from, and he doesn't merely summon his robes, either (like in the transformation sequence during the Hanga arc), but instead briefly vanishes offscreen and then zooms in with what looks like Wu Tian'en's teleportation power. Still, he manages to use his appearance to convince two of Ye Zun's vanguard that they have been duped.
(If I'm not mistaken, this episode marks his last appearance in his Envoy robes and mask.) - I'm a bit confused about what happens with the two surviving members of Ye Zun's vanguard after they surrender. One of them says they'll return to Dixing and tell everyone they were cheated; then they're swallowed by black energy. I'm unsure if this is Shen Wei's doing (is he sending them back? I don't think he should be capable of that so easily now) or Ye Zun's, given that Ye Zun's laughter sounds immediately afterwards - but Shen Wei and Zhao Yunlan only seem to react with surprise when they hear Ye Zun. Did Ye Zun snatch them away? kill them? eat them? (It doesn't look like the visual effect when he eats someone, but even so.) I'm honestly not sure what the scene is trying to convey here.
To additionally complicate matters, in episode 37 when Shen Wei returns to Dixing, someone has indeed been telling people there's a fake Envoy around - but that sounds more like it's Ye Zun's move against Shen Wei ...
(Somoeone on discord wondered why, if Ye Zun did indeed eat them, they were not in Ye Zun's stomach later when we see Lin Jing there. Which led me to wonder whether he digests Dixingren more quickly because the energy is more compatible ... but that doesn't seem to be the case when he later eats the Regent and An Bai, so who knows!) - Zhao Yunlan, commenting on Ye Zun, echoes what he said to Shen Wei before, paralleling the twins:
Episode 34, to Shen Wei: "Ten thousand years, and you haven't changed at all."
Episode 36, about Ye Zun: "Ten thousand years, and he really hasn't changed at all."
Discussion starters:
- What's your favourite scene in this episode? Your favourite line? I can't choose between Zhao Yunlan's livestream and Ye Zun's appearance at the Inspectorate, both of which I love to pieces in completely different ways and for completely different reasons. *g*
- Anything that surprised you in this episode? Anything you didn't remember at all?
- Regarding Ye Zun's appearance at the Inspectorate and his delightful(ly extra) outfit, which suits him so much better than his fake Professor Shen outfit did: given that this is what he chose to appear in here when he's not impersonating anyone else, do you think this is his preferred style? If Ye Zun survived and eventually ended up living in the modern day, would he dress like this? :D
- "You can't hurt me," Ye Zun says after Professor Ouyang tries to punch him, then passes his own hand through Prof Ouyang's head, "but don't worry - I can't hurt you either." And then he promptly goes to sit down in Minister Gao's desk chair. Is that an inconsistency, or is it a deliberate contradiction on Ye Zun's part as he's being as deliberately unsettling as possible?
- Does Ye Zun really think there's a chance Minister Gao will hand over Zhao Yunlan and Shen Wei, or is he just trying to sow discord?
- How did Lin Jing know to tune into Zhao Yunlan's broadcast at the right time, and to expect a coded message? If he and Zhao Yunlan could communicate enough for Zhao Yunlan to let Lin Jing know about that, why couldn't he just tell him directly to steal the serum?
And speaking of, why is Zhao Yunlan asking Lin Jing to steal the serum? Is Zhao Yunlan already considering using it on himself? (Is this his own version of Shen Wei's failsafe?) - Given that the serum is now being distributed, who do you think it's being used on - and how much choice did those people have in being given it? (Professor Ouyang, considering what he does to Guo Changcheng, doesn't seem to care much about consent ...)
- How well do you think Guo Changcheng and Li Qian know each other? (He calls her Student Li Qian, which seems pretty formal, but she just calls him Changcheng, which is rather familiar, so I feel like we're getting mixed messages here ...) If they're friends, how do you think that happened?
- What do you think Chu Shuzhi means when he thinks he used to be Dixingren? Especially given that a few episodes ago, his happy ending dream involved living in Dixing with Guo Changcheng ...
- Zhang Shi explains that the reason the Hallows were lost "decades ago" is because the Guardian Lantern was extinguished. When did that happen? When Shen Wei arrived in the present 20+ years ago, the Hallows were already lost. And Dixing in Chu Shuzhi's youth, ostensibly 100 years ago, looked very much like present-day Dixing. Also, we know from Wang Zheng's backstory that the Mountain-River Awl has been in Hanga territory for over 100 years, and from Li Qian that the Sundial was a family heirloom. How does all of that go together? Any theories?
- In this episode, we see Zhao Yunlan casually shoot a man who is already restrained (the Nightmare Master), and then later he shoots another man behind his back without even looking! What do you think has changed for him, that he's now so cavalier about killing?
Let's talk about episode 36!
Come and talk about this episode - anything from favourite scenes or lines of dialogue to notes/questions about continuity or translation, most gorgeous (or angsty) smile, or anything else that strikes your fancy! And share links to your own and/or others' episode-related meta, picspams, and fanworks, new or old!
Links to episode 36 fanworks and meta go here!
- any other episode reactions or related meta
- fanworks, picspams, squee, etc, relating to episode 36 generally or to specific scenes, characters, or events in this episode
Link to your own works and/or others'. Help us build as comprehensive a collection of links as possible!Re: Links to episode 36 fanworks and meta go here!
Guardian Episode by Episode: 36 by
Scene discussion:
Zhao Yunlan's livestream by
Hei Pao Shi rescues/recruits Chu Shuzhi from prison by
Re: Links to episode 36 fanworks and meta go here!
always already meant it (3050 words) [Teen And Up]
Characters/Relationship: Shen Wei/Zhao Yunlan
Content Tags: Time Loop, New Beginnings, Bed-sharing, Missing Scene, Episode Related, Episode 35/36
Summary: "Was the timeline always already fixed? Did we ever have a choice?"
Re: Links to episode 36 fanworks and meta go here!
Re: Links to episode 36 fanworks and meta go here!
Re: Links to episode 36 fanworks and meta go here!
Look What You Made Me Do
The first fandom in which I saw a vid for this song was Hunger Games, and it was excellent and very serious. This version is also excellent, IMHO, and the choice of clips evokes a mix of playfulness and bitterness that works really well.
Re: Links to episode 36 fanworks and meta go here!
Re: Links to episode 36 fanworks and meta go here!
Re: Links to episode 36 fanworks and meta go here!
Re: Links to episode 36 fanworks and meta go here!
Re: Links to episode 36 fanworks and meta go here!
no subject
Shen Wei is so gone on this man! You can see him positively melting in this scene ♥
The second part ("suffer heartbreak, and suffer death", 会失恋，会失身) could and perhaps should be translated as "suffer heartbreak, and lose their virginity" - that's the dictionary definition of 失身!
Yeah I bet Zhao Yunlan knows all about deflowering Dixingren :D
Any thoughts on how these two statements relate to each other, and what they say about Zhao Xinci vs. Zhang Shi?
I would reduce it to something like this:
Zhao Xinci is essentially saying Yunlan has no clue what he’s doing but rushing ahead anyway.
Zhang Shi is saying that once you have picked a path, you need to stick with it. Rather than dwelling on morality (“Am I doing the right thing?” etc.), it’s better to focus on practical matters.
These aren’t necessarily contradictive. “Don’t rush into things” and “Once you’ve started, keep at it” are perfectly compatible stances. The crucial thing to know is how far along you are on your path of decision-making.
Clearly Zhao Xinci is of the opinion that his son could still have made a different choice at this point.
but is he just trying to substitute Guo Changcheng for Zhao Yunlan as the needed sacrifice, or is there an alternate method of creating a wick? I really wish we could know!
When in doubt, I tend to err on the side of “like the novel unless specified otherwise”, but for drama-only-verse I really don't know. Would love to hear some theories!
But on the other hand, turning against the people who are actively trying to prevent this from becoming an all-out war is surely the worst of all options?!
Yes, that’s not a smart move at all. The SID (and particularly Shen Wei) are Haixing’s best bet to either prevent or win a potential war.
no wonder Chu Shuzhi's devotion and loyalty to the Envoy is absolute after this moment!
Yeees exactly! I’m weak for Chu Shuzhi’s loyalty I love it so much ❤❤❤
Speaking of the men's loo, have you noticed this delightful sign?
I am dying to know what the women’s bathroom signage looks like. Maybe a handbag? Or a cigarette, if they’re going for a smoking theme.
If I'm not mistaken, this episode marks his last appearance in his Envoy robes and mask
Noooooo :(
What's your favourite scene in this episode?
It’s Ye Zun at the inspectorate for me. Watching Ye Zun have fun and be evil is such a delight. His outfit, his grins, how openly he’s enjoying himself – it’s all just so fun ❤
The flair for drama is apparently genetic in these brothers - we also see Shen Wei doing a dramatic hand gesture to free Chu Shuzhi in this episode.
given that this is what he chose to appear in here when he's not impersonating anyone else, do you think this is his preferred style? If Ye Zun survived and eventually ended up living in the modern day, would he dress like this? :D
Yes, absolutely, for exactly that reason. He already had the rad golden mask in YOHE, and now with a whole new modern range of clothing at his disposal, he can go wild. So he does! He even experiments with a new hairstyle, opting for a cute tiny ponytail. I love that we can actually see how the mask is fastened.
And then he promptly goes to sit down in Minister Gao's desk chair. Is that an inconsistency, or is it a deliberate contradiction on Ye Zun's part as he's being as deliberately unsettling as possible?
It’s either specifically people he can’t interact with, or he is faking it – meaning he can actually control this at will, like a cheat code to turn off his collision XD
A little later in the episode, he touches Ya Qing, but only her feathers. I’m not sure if this is evidence either way.
Does Ye Zun really think there's a chance Minister Gao will hand over Zhao Yunlan and Shen Wei, or is he just trying to sow discord?
His plan in no way hinges on their cooperation, but I still think he considers it a real possibility, yes.
The way he follows this request up with “aren’t they useless to you anyway?” reads as a genuine attempt at persuasion to me. And why not try when there’s nothing to lose? If they agree, it’s at the very least a funny joke for Ye Zun(it’s not like Zhao Yunlan and Shen Wei will just let themselves be handed over).
In this episode, we see Zhao Yunlan casually shoot a man who is already restrained (the Nightmare Master), and then later he shoots another man behind his back without even looking! What do you think has changed for him, that he's now so cavalier about killing?
He got significantly more trigger-happy during the YOHE arc, either due to Wang Zheng and Sang Zan’s demise just before, or the war situation he faced in the past. Possibly both.
Now the war has been brought to his home turf – I think it’s a mix of defensiveness, increasing numbness to violence, and running out of patience that drives Zhao Yunlan to act like this.
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♥ ♥ ♥
These aren’t necessarily contradictive. “Don’t rush into things” and “Once you’ve started, keep at it” are perfectly compatible stances. The crucial thing to know is how far along you are on your path of decision-making.
Clearly Zhao Xinci is of the opinion that his son could still have made a different choice at this point.
That's an excellent point about Zhao Xinci's perspective, thank you!
When in doubt, I tend to err on the side of “like the novel unless specified otherwise”, but for drama-only-verse I really don't know.
How does it work in the novel?
I’m weak for Chu Shuzhi’s loyalty I love it so much ❤❤❤
You and me both. :D
I am dying to know what the women’s bathroom signage looks like. Maybe a handbag? Or a cigarette, if they’re going for a smoking theme.
Haha, maybe a cigarette holder? :D
Watching Ye Zun have fun and be evil is such a delight. His outfit, his grins, how openly he’s enjoying himself – it’s all just so fun ❤
100% agreed!
The flair for drama is apparently genetic in these brothers - we also see Shen Wei doing a dramatic hand gesture to free Chu Shuzhi in this episode.
They ARE brothers! :D
He even experiments with a new hairstyle, opting for a cute tiny ponytail.
I love the little ponytail SO MUCH. :D
It’s either specifically people he can’t interact with, or he is faking it – meaning he can actually control this at will, like a cheat code to turn off his collision XD
Given that he can eat people (as seen with Lin Jing), "I can't hurt you" is definitely a lie, so it would make sense to me if he was entirely faking it!
I think it’s a mix of defensiveness, increasing numbness to violence, and running out of patience that drives Zhao Yunlan to act like this.
:( :( :(
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The lantern is made from Kunlun’s body and the wick is his heart’s blood. Guo Changcheng is the reincarnation of the wick, and he can light it with his merits/virtue, so he is fine (and clueless about all of this). I think Zhao Yunlan's blood also lights it temporarily, but I'm hazy on those details.
Haha, maybe a cigarette holder? :D
Yes great idea, one of those old fashioned things Audrey Hepburn had would fit perfectly XD
Given that he can eat people (as seen with Lin Jing), "I can't hurt you" is definitely a lie, so it would make sense to me if he was entirely faking it!
That makes sense! He totally would mess with the humans like this – and maybe lull them into a false security while he’s at it.
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Thank you! That's fascinating (and convenient). Very different from the drama!
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Clearly Zhao Xinci is of the opinion that his son could still have made a different choice at this point.
Ohh, that works! I like that a lot!
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For most of the episode until the end, Zhao Yunlan and Shen Wei are at Cong Bo's, and at first, what happens at the Inspectorate is seen through a frame of Cong Bo hacking into their surveillance and them secretly watching. Afterwards, Zhao Yunlan's livestream itself becomes a framing device for several scenes of people watching and listening.
Oh, excellent point! That's really cool. :D
Vice Minister Guo, on the other hand, who overhears the talk about the serum and is caught eaves-dropping, rather than quickly leaving before he can be recognised, instead comes in and asks Minister Gao to reconsider - and gets arrested for his troubles.
This is pretty sinister, given it's based on one instance of speaking out! And it doesn't seem like normal "go to prison" arrested, either. Isn't he just locked in a cupboard somewhere? (I don't actually remember where he is. Guess I'll find out in ep 38/39?)
Anyway, I do feel like his objection might have gone over better if he'd offered an alternative. Like, "don't do X" isn't very helpful without "we should do Y instead", you know? (I really want some of the good guys (broad category; not just the SID) to have a good plan that involves directly protecting the people of Haixing! ;-p I know Chu Shuzhi and Ye Huo talk about evacuating people, but that's not the same as stopping the invaders.)
and how Minister Gao knows the majority is against it. Did he poll them, or what? :p
Maybe people keep coming to his office to have quiet/concerned words with him, and Guo Ying was the last straw?
And that's before we come to him strangling both Lin Jing and Guo Changcheng, and the forceful injection of the serum!
/o\ /o\ /o\ Terrifying on both counts. He's the one who should be arrested!
When Li Qian and Professor Ouyang are coming to the lab, she she says she doesn't understand why he injected the serum again - did he give himself a second dose?! Is that why he keeps getting worse?
I assumed so.
So the serum is now in use - though we don't ever see who it's used on.
Ohhh, excellent point! *makes note for future post-canon fics*
Minister Gao tells Ye Zun he'll consider his offer (even Professor Ouyang looks shocked!), but never actually does, proving that he's not actually evil, just incompetent. :p
I think this is Minister Gao's finest hour, actually. A glimpse of the backbone he could have showed in everything. I wonder how much Zhao Yunlan being Zhao Xinci's son played into his decision...
Ye Zun also heals Ya Qing from whatever Lin Jing injected her with.
And then fondles her feathers in an extreeeeemely creepy way. I feel like this might have played into Ya Qing's decision to change sides next ep. She can't feel very respected when he's casually taking such personal liberties! /o\
but he makes no secret of it when he's talking to Mi Lu that the Yashou are next in line - not mentioning, though, that Dixingren will be after, as we'll eventually see.
I wonder if Mi Lu would care much. She's very arrogant -- she might just be out for herself?
there's only the one between Haixing and Dixing (this is even a plot point next episode!), for which only the Envoy and the Regent are supposed to have permission. So why does it need blocking?)
To stop Shen Wei specifically from travelling between? But also, clearly other people are using the gate, even if they're supposed to not be able to.
He wants Ya Qing to become Yashou High Chief. (Why? Just to get the Yashou under control until he can make a move against them?)
I guess it helps to keep Ya Qing on side until they don't need her anymore?
and for all that his livestream is explicitly directed at humans, there are Yashou and Dixingren prominent among them.
♥♥♥
Cong Bo himself gets rather caught up in Zhao Yunlan's speech - we see him nodding along towards the end.
Ha, I noticed that. At the line "Even if we were misunderstood, betrayed, and some even sacrificed, my Special Investigation Unit and I will fight till the end, because people like us were born for this purpose," too! Is he nodding about Zhao Yunlan being born for fighting, or including himself in "people like us"? Either way, I think it's a sign Cong Bo really sees himself as a core SID member by now.
I also love that during "even if we were misunderstood, betrayed, and some even sacrificed" we see the empty SID office. *sniffles for Wang Zheng & Sang Zan*
And Shen Wei, who has lived with that division all his life, who ten thousand years met Kunlun who didn't buy into it at all, who in the present day has watched Zhao Yunlan grow out of buying into it (and has been an essential part of that growth), now gets to listen to this speech which is both the culmination of Zhao Yunlan's development on that score and an expression of a worldview that speaks straight to Shen Wei's heart. Of course he can't look away!
Ahhhhhhhh, this is an amazing description! I love it! <3 <3 <3 ,3 <3
Any thoughts on how these two statements relate to each other, and what they say about Zhao Xinci vs. Zhang Shi?
I think Zhao Xinci is particularly strict and impatient and hardline in this ep, and I wonder how much it's a reaction to Zhang Shi taking over more, lately. Zhang Shi promised he wouldn't do that, but lately he's been sticking his oar in, not "knowing his place" -- and that must be super-unnerving for Zhao Xinci, both on a personal and a political level. So I think we're seeing him at his worst here, and part of it is Zhao Xinci rejecting Zhang Shi's counsel, rejecting his wisdom, and dwelling in the opposite: saying being about to tell right from wrong, good from evil, etc. is what's important. (I think he's also worried about Zhao Yunlan and unable to express or deal with that, especially when, from Zhao Xinci's POV, Yunlan keeps deliberately making things worse for himself -- and that makes Zhao Xinci extra cranky, too.)
Zhao Xinci says he can't gamble on that - and of course he's right; Haixing can't just do nothing and hope for the best. But on the other hand, turning against the people who are actively trying to prevent this from becoming an all-out war is surely the worst of all options?!
The SID is so determined to play by its own rules. They're insubordinate and unruly, and stealing the Hallows! But yeah -- can't help feeling things would all go so much better if everyone could actually work together. If Minister Gao had summoned the Envoy to strategise together, say...
and very unhappy to be interrupted. (Watch his eyes go wide when the Envoy suddenly appears, and the grimace he makes when the Envoy leaves!)
I think the Regent probably feels like the Envoy is judging him (which, you know, is true?), and the Regent resents him for it? Idk.
only to be blindsided to find Xiao-Guo crying over the Envoy fighting to save the world, and talking about wanting to live in peace, just as Nianzhi did! And that's what makes Chu Shuzhi change his mind and give Guo Changcheng a chance.
Yeah, I think it's that combo, isn't it? Idolising the Envoy and sounding like Nianzhi.
Lin Jing's password for his meeting with Guo Changcheng in the men's loo: "Lin Jing, you're so handsome." Which sort of mirrors/matches the terrible password for the starry sky right he made for Sha Ya - at least he does it to everyone? *g*
LOL! And his remark in ep 9, when he's fixing Shen Wei's car, and his request for an epitaph in ep 37. *pets him*
Zhao Yunlan manages to wake Zhu Hong from her Nightmare Master-induced sleep by telling her Zhao Yunlan is here and will leave without her if she doesn't wake up, and in exactly the same way, he wakes Da Qing by telling him there's dried fish, and everyone else will eat it all if he doesn't wake up! Delightful. :D
I love that! It's so great -- that he can joke about Zhu Hong's crush now, and use it to protect her, instead of avoiding it for fear of having to talk about it. :D
Zhao Yunlan says that ten thousand years ago, he relied on the collision of Ye Zun's black energy with the energy of the Hallows to open the wormhole. Two remarkable things: First, this makes it all sound much more deliberate than it was, LOL!
And how does he know it was Ye Zun, and not Da Qing, or some combo of the four of them? Da Qing has a connection to the Hallows, after all!
And second, no one reacts to "ten thousand years" - I wonder if everyone knows about the time travel by now, and which of them told them!
Ohh, I wish we'd got to see that! Man, talk about a missing scene. Imagine him telling Zhu Hong he met Fu You! And Chu Shuzhi finding out that Zhao Yunlan was a warrior with the Envoy 10k years ago!
Still, he manages to use his appearance to convince two of Ye Zun's vanguard that they have been duped.
... Zhao Yunlan having shot the third. Which, if two of them could be persuaded to change sides, then why not the third one? And they literally just leave the body lying in the street!?? What the hell, SID?!
Somoeone on discord wondered why, if Ye Zun did indeed eat them, they were not in Ye Zun's stomach later when we see Lin Jing there. Which led me to wonder whether he digests Dixingren more quickly because the energy is more compatible ... but that doesn't seem to be the case when he later eats the Regent and An Bai, so who knows!
Maybe it's different if he eats them from a distance (turns them into energy to eat), rather than eating them bodily, in person?
Zhao Yunlan, commenting on Ye Zun, echoes what he said to Shen Wei before, paralleling the twins: [Ten thousand years, and you haven't / he really hasn't changed at all.]
I mean, they did both spend a lot of those 10k years in an energy seal, presumably in stasis for a lot of it, so. *g*
What's your favourite scene in this episode? Your favourite line?
My favourite lines are Zhao Yunlan waking Da Qing and Zhu Hong. Favourite scene... the livestream, and everyone's faaaaces during it.
If Ye Zun survived and eventually ended up living in the modern day, would he dress like this? :D
In permanent evening dress? Ha, idk.
How did Lin Jing know to tune into Zhao Yunlan's broadcast at the right time, and to expect a coded message? If he and Zhao Yunlan could communicate enough for Zhao Yunlan to let Lin Jing know about that, why couldn't he just tell him directly to steal the serum?
Maybe a matter of timing? Maybe Zhao Yunlan didn't want to commit theft from his own government until all other options were exhausted and/or he'd irrevocably gone against the DoS?
And speaking of, why is Zhao Yunlan asking Lin Jing to steal the serum? Is Zhao Yunlan already considering using it on himself? (Is this his own version of Shen Wei's failsafe?)
Oh, ha, I assumed he was trying to get Lin Jing to steal alll the serum so Professor Ouyang couldn't use it. But you're right, he just takes one syringe, doesn't he? (Is that what he injects into Ya Qing?) Really not sure what ZYL wanted that for.
Re the Hallows being lost, I always liked the point you made once that they can manipulate time, so just because they appeared somewhere a hundred years ago, doesn't mean they had to be lost before that...
In this episode, we see Zhao Yunlan casually shoot a man who is already restrained (the Nightmare Master), and then later he shoots another man behind his back without even looking! What do you think has changed for him, that he's now so cavalier about killing?
He's just got back from a war zone, and he's kind of brought that vibe with him. /o\ I'm pretty uncomfortable about this, actually, but I guess the show needs the action and stakes to keep escalating, and due process would slow things down? Idk.
(More thoughts to follow, but probably not till tomorrow at this stage.)
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When Li Qian fetches him eventually, he's just locked up in some random unused office, so yeah, this is not what I'd assume normal procedure! But I feel like while speaking up is what actually prompts Minister Gao to have him arrested, the ostensible reason is eaves-dropping, which is actually a pretty big violation in a place where top-secret information is handled.
Anyway, I do feel like his objection might have gone over better if he'd offered an alternative.
Yeah, that's very true! Though I assume Guo Ying simply doesn't think the serum project will help at all - that Professor Ouyang is wrong for offering it as a method for dealing with the current crisis. And he's not wrong about that either, since none of the people the serum is used on ever play any role in this, other than Guo Changcheng whose involvement was accidental, and Professor Ouyang himself who only has negative impact.
I know Chu Shuzhi and Ye Huo talk about evacuating people, but that's not the same as stopping the invaders.
Yeah, I have stuff I want to talk about regarding that for the next episode, because there's a bit where this is very relevant.
Maybe people keep coming to his office to have quiet/concerned words with him, and Guo Ying was the last straw?
Ha, you know, I can actually see this!
Terrifying on both counts. He's the one who should be arrested!
100% agreed! But Minister Gao presumably doesn't know about any of it, and even if he did, by that point Professor Ouyang is already no longer listenting to anyone.
Ohhh, excellent point! *makes note for future post-canon fics*
:D :D :D
I think this is Minister Gao's finest hour, actually. A glimpse of the backbone he could have showed in everything. I wonder how much Zhao Yunlan being Zhao Xinci's son played into his decision...
Yeah, agreed! And that's a good question - very probably not even Minister Gao himself knows how much it's influencing his judgment, not that he'd admit that. :p
And then fondles her feathers in an extreeeeemely creepy way. I feel like this might have played into Ya Qing's decision to change sides next ep. She can't feel very respected when he's casually taking such personal liberties! /o\
I think she's already mostly there, to be honest - I don't think she's liking anything about all of this, and if she'd actually become High Chief it wouldn't have taken very much for her to turn against Ye Zun anyway. But yeah, this is definitely reinforcing all of it!
I wonder if Mi Lu would care much. She's very arrogant -- she might just be out for herself?
I mean, she presumably wants to live and have power. Ye Zun has no interest in that; she's just a disposable tool to him. I wonder what she'd do if she understood that.
To stop Shen Wei specifically from travelling between? But also, clearly other people are using the gate, even if they're supposed to not be able to.
Very good point! Maybe that restriction has been removed now, or it's been subverted so much it's broken. *g*
I guess it helps to keep Ya Qing on side until they don't need her anymore?
True. She was useful to him before this; now, not so much.
Is he nodding about Zhao Yunlan being born for fighting, or including himself in "people like us"? Either way, I think it's a sign Cong Bo really sees himself as a core SID member by now.
Oh, I 100% thought he was including himself! And yeah, agreed, he's a fully committed member now, at least in his own eyes.
I also love that during "even if we were misunderstood, betrayed, and some even sacrificed" we see the empty SID office. *sniffles for Wang Zheng & Sang Zan*
Yes!!!!
I think Zhao Xinci is particularly strict and impatient and hardline in this ep, and I wonder how much it's a reaction to Zhang Shi taking over more, lately. Zhang Shi promised he wouldn't do that, but lately he's been sticking his oar in, not "knowing his place" -- and that must be super-unnerving for Zhao Xinci, both on a personal and a political level. So I think we're seeing him at his worst here, and part of it is Zhao Xinci rejecting Zhang Shi's counsel, rejecting his wisdom, and dwelling in the opposite
Oh, that's such a good thought! That makes A LOT of sense to me.
I think he's also worried about Zhao Yunlan and unable to express or deal with that, especially when, from Zhao Xinci's POV, Yunlan keeps deliberately making things worse for himself -- and that makes Zhao Xinci extra cranky, too.
Oh, yes, 100% agreed! He's very worried about his son, and the only way he knows to express it is by insulting him, LOL.
The SID is so determined to play by its own rules. They're insubordinate and unruly, and stealing the Hallows! But yeah -- can't help feeling things would all go so much better if everyone could actually work together. If Minister Gao had summoned the Envoy to strategise together, say...
The SID wouldn't have gone vigilante if the Inspectorate hadn't from the start (the mess with the break-ins at the lab) tried to keep them out of what falls under their remit - Dixing activity in Haixing. So the point to change that direction was much earlier. But also, no matter how unhappy Minister Gao is about the SID, I don't think he ever questions that they mean well, so using their expertise while trying to formulate a strategy would make sense, even if he won't necessarily do what Zhao Yunlan would want. But he never brings them in on the situation at all.
And that's an EXCELLENT point about summoning the Envoy, and now I want an AU where that happens! (Of course you'd have to catch Shen Wei while he's not captured in Dixing ... *g*)
I think the Regent probably feels like the Envoy is judging him (which, you know, is true?), and the Regent resents him for it?
Yes, absolutely, but also, I think this is not the image he wants to project in front of the Envoy. He likes to play up his harmless facade in front of Shen Wei, and this really doesn't fit!
Yeah, I think it's that combo, isn't it? Idolising the Envoy and sounding like Nianzhi.
Yes, I thought so too!
LOL! And his remark in ep 9, when he's fixing Shen Wei's car, and his request for an epitaph in ep 37. *pets him*
Yep, all of this! Oh, Lin Jing. :D
I love that! It's so great -- that he can joke about Zhu Hong's crush now, and use it to protect her, instead of avoiding it for fear of having to talk about it. :D
Oh yes, excellent point!
And how does he know it was Ye Zun, and not Da Qing, or some combo of the four of them? Da Qing has a connection to the Hallows, after all!
Oh, very good question! *g*
Ohh, I wish we'd got to see that! Man, talk about a missing scene. Imagine him telling Zhu Hong he met Fu You! And Chu Shuzhi finding out that Zhao Yunlan was a warrior with the Envoy 10k years ago!
YES, I want it so badly! Give me everyone's reaction to finding out a) time travel is real, b) ZHAO YUNLAN was KUNLUN?????, and c) time loop!!!!! :D
Which, if two of them could be persuaded to change sides, then why not the third one? And they literally just leave the body lying in the street!?? What the hell, SID?!
I KNOW ...
In permanent evening dress? Ha, idk.
No lie, I love it. :D
Maybe a matter of timing? Maybe Zhao Yunlan didn't want to commit theft from his own government until all other options were exhausted and/or he'd irrevocably gone against the DoS?
But by the time he plans the livestream he's already said they can't talk to the Inspectorate any more, and nothing else happens in between that. So if after that Zhao Yunlan was able to communicate to Lin Jing that he should tune in at a specified hour, why couldn't he just tell him to steal the serum directly?
Oh, ha, I assumed he was trying to get Lin Jing to steal alll the serum so Professor Ouyang couldn't use it. But you're right, he just takes one syringe, doesn't he? (Is that what he injects into Ya Qing?) Really not sure what ZYL wanted that for.
Yeah, he only takes one syringe, while the serum is being administered elsewhere. (It's not what he injects into Ya Qing; that's a different syringe he's apparently carrying around in his pocket! The serum syringe is taken from him by Professor Ouyang and injected into Guo Changcheng.)
I like the idea of Zhao Yunlan already considering using the serum on himself if things become desperate ...
Re the Hallows being lost, I always liked the point you made once that they can manipulate time, so just because they appeared somewhere a hundred years ago, doesn't mean they had to be lost before that...
Oh, yes, I love temporal shenanigans!
but I guess the show needs the action and stakes to keep escalating, and due process would slow things down?
I mean, to be fair, there is no due process at this point - the Inspectorate has dissolved the SID, the Envoy can't deliver Dixingren to the Dixing justice system (such as it was) any more, and also they don't actually have the means to hold Dixingren captive ...
But yeah, I don't like it either, especially the casual way it's done.
(More thoughts to follow, but probably not till tomorrow at this stage.)
The post isn't going anywhere! Looking forward to your thoughts. :)
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I guess so. I guess it depends how far outside his area / above his paygrade it is... (I wonder how long he's locked in there... and if they let him notify his family. The whole thing is so yikes.)
And he's not wrong about that either, since none of the people the serum is used on ever play any role in this, other than Guo Changcheng whose involvement was accidental, and Professor Ouyang himself who only has negative impact.
As far as we see. (They might be off-screen fighting the invaders. Maybe we're supposed to infer that. Maybe that's why there's so much damage -- we don't know!) I guess part of the problem is that the powers are so random. Prof Ouyang would have to keep dosing people until he found enough who had fight-relevant powers, and then he'd have to stop them freaking out and point them in a useful direction, without any of the steadying influence like Shen Wei and Chu Shuzhi gave Guo Changcheng.
I mean, she presumably wants to live and have power. Ye Zun has no interest in that; she's just a disposable tool to him. I wonder what she'd do if she understood that.
Ooh, I wonder how long a Ye Zun vs Mi Lu fight would have lasted. If he couldn't see through her illusions, he might have had a little bit of difficulty taking her down? (We don't really see anyone strong enough to challenge him, though, do we?)
The SID wouldn't have gone vigilante if the Inspectorate hadn't from the start (the mess with the break-ins at the lab) tried to keep them out of what falls under their remit - Dixing activity in Haixing. So the point to change that direction was much earlier.
Or Minister Gao could have realised that that was an error on his part, and built bridges. Listened. Taken advice. (Seriously, whyyyy isn't there a committee?) (I know, it would make for worse TV.)
And that's an EXCELLENT point about summoning the Envoy, and now I want an AU where that happens! (Of course you'd have to catch Shen Wei while he's not captured in Dixing ... *g*)
Seconding the AU wanting. :D
Yes, absolutely, but also, I think this is not the image he wants to project in front of the Envoy. He likes to play up his harmless facade in front of Shen Wei, and this really doesn't fit!
Oh right. Yeah, it breaks his image across both vectors, doesn't it? Cruelty--Justice, and Capability--Harmlessness. /o\
Give me everyone's reaction to finding out a) time travel is real, b) ZHAO YUNLAN was KUNLUN?????, and c) time loop!!!!! :D
*grabbyhands*
But by the time he plans the livestream he's already said they can't talk to the Inspectorate any more, and nothing else happens in between that. So if after that Zhao Yunlan was able to communicate to Lin Jing that he should tune in at a specified hour, why couldn't he just tell him to steal the serum directly?
I assumed that he assumed Lin Jing would be listening because everyone was listening -- not that he'd given Lin Jing a specific heads up. (Maybe they're just playing it this way because Lin Jing loves spy games so much. Heh.)
Yeah, he only takes one syringe, while the serum is being administered elsewhere. (It's not what he injects into Ya Qing; that's a different syringe he's apparently carrying around in his pocket! The serum syringe is taken from him by Professor Ouyang and injected into Guo Changcheng.)
Oh, right. Presumably the syringe he uses on Ya Qing is like the one he uses on Cong Bo after the wedding, then? Some kind of DE-power-breaking sedative?
I like the idea of Zhao Yunlan already considering using the serum on himself if things become desperate ...
Wow. Huh, I hadn't thought of that. It would be a desperate measure indeed, given how disapproving they all are about the serum. Hmm. I'm not sure how I feel about that -- especially given Zhao Yunlan knows how many non-useful powers are out there.
I mean, to be fair, there is no due process at this point - the Inspectorate has dissolved the SID, the Envoy can't deliver Dixingren to the Dixing justice system (such as it was) any more, and also they don't actually have the means to hold Dixingren captive ...
I wonder if they still have the cuffs they used on Zhu Jiu... But yeah. That still doesn't give them a secure place to keep him, or a longer term solution...
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Very yikes! Xiao-Guo saw him in the corridor, so he knows, but since they're not allowed to have phones in there, he presumably wasn't able to tell his aunt ...
They might be off-screen fighting the invaders. Maybe we're supposed to infer that.
I'm pretty sure that if they'd wanted us to believe that, they'd just have added a reference to it somewhere. A line of dialogue doesn't even need a special effects budget. *g*
I guess part of the problem is that the powers are so random. Prof Ouyang would have to keep dosing people until he found enough who had fight-relevant powers
The randomness of powers was always one of the fatal flaws of the project. There's just no guarantee they'll end up with anything usable unless they administer the serum to a very large number of people - and then the very large number of people suddenly having other powers would be their own complication for Haixing!
Ooh, I wonder how long a Ye Zun vs Mi Lu fight would have lasted. If he couldn't see through her illusions, he might have had a little bit of difficulty taking her down? (We don't really see anyone strong enough to challenge him, though, do we?)
No, presumably by design - no one can stand up to him, which means it rings true when the only way to defeat him ends up being self-sacrifice. But I agree it would be fun to see him deal with an opponent that gives him a bit of a challenge, and Mi Lu's maze power could work for that!
Or Minister Gao could have realised that that was an error on his part, and built bridges. Listened. Taken advice. (Seriously, whyyyy isn't there a committee?) (I know, it would make for worse TV.)
Haha, yeah. Seriously!
Yeah, it breaks his image across both vectors, doesn't it? Cruelty--Justice, and Capability--Harmlessness. /o\
Yes, this!
I assumed that he assumed Lin Jing would be listening because everyone was listening -- not that he'd given Lin Jing a specific heads up.
The way Lin Jing turns on his phone when he's in the loo with Guo Changcheng makes it seem like he's expecting it. I guess I'm overthinking this and it's just narrative convenience. *g*
Presumably the syringe he uses on Ya Qing is like the one he uses on Cong Bo after the wedding, then? Some kind of DE-power-breaking sedative?
Oh! I had forgotten about that, but yes, that makes a lot of sense!
Wow. Huh, I hadn't thought of that. It would be a desperate measure indeed, given how disapproving they all are about the serum. Hmm. I'm not sure how I feel about that -- especially given Zhao Yunlan knows how many non-useful powers are out there.
I think it would work as a "if everything else fails, I can still roll the dice and try this" idea - not as something he expects to work, but something that has some small chance of it?
I wonder if they still have the cuffs they used on Zhu Jiu... But yeah. That still doesn't give them a secure place to keep him, or a longer term solution...
Yeah. It's difficult. (I wonder if Lin Jing could have made a containment field if he'd tried - sort of an inverse SID shield, that won't let people out?
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Yes, but by chance. The intention was to "disappear" Guo Ying!!
I'm pretty sure that if they'd wanted us to believe that, they'd just have added a reference to it somewhere. A line of dialogue doesn't even need a special effects budget. *g*
True. That does kind of make all the carnage in ep 37 worse, though. /o\
There's just no guarantee they'll end up with anything usable unless they administer the serum to a very large number of people - and then the very large number of people suddenly having other powers would be their own complication for Haixing!
Yeah, exactly. HOW HAVE THEY NOT THOUGHT THIS THROUGH??
I think it would work as a "if everything else fails, I can still roll the dice and try this" idea - not as something he expects to work, but something that has some small chance of it?
And it does, in fact, give him a burst of super strength, even as it starts to kill him. So \o?
Yeah. It's difficult. (I wonder if Lin Jing could have made a containment field if he'd tried - sort of an inverse SID shield, that won't let people out?
I suspect he could have, but they'd still have to look after the prisoners (without anyone getting hurt or held hostage). To start with, detainment was against the treaty, and later on, given the SID have been kicked out of the building by the DoS once already, they don't really have a stable base they can be sure of. Idk. I guess less-than-ideal imprisonment would be a step up from summarily shooting them, but it's still... less than ideal. :-(
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Yeah, it wouldn't be great long-term solution, but it might help while Haixing is actively being attacked (and the Treaty has been burned by then, so its stipulations are moot). I'm just thinking about what they might have tried to do if the Inspectorate and the SID hadn't been at odds, and they'd all made an effort to work together to contain things until Ye Zun himself could be dealt with ...
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Changcheng: I would never hold the team back.
me: *hearts and hearts*
CSZ: (remarkably cheerfully) Stupid boy. Cheer up. At least we have the Hallows. Let's go and find Chief Zhao now.
I love that Chu Shuzhi is being the voice of pragmatic optimism, in the face of Changcheng's worry. <3 They're so good at looking after each other.
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Solo's subs have this as "I suggest we approve distribution," the original subs had it as "I request a circulation of our research result," and Viki has it as "I request that our research result be circulated to the lower levels." Fascinating! The original is way too condensed for my rudimentary Chinese: 我申请向下投放 ...
Last time Ye Zun saw Zhao Yunlan was when Zhao Yunlan got sucked into the wormhole, right? Does he even know he's back? Or is his ultimatum to Minister Gao just continuing his Torment the SID agenda?
Oh, good question! He might know - he did see Zhao Yunlan get sucked into the wormhole, so it might have made sense for him to have the SID monitored so people could report to him if Zhao Yunlan made a reappearance. But he might also just be fucking with the Inspectorate for fun.
At least some of the bathroom scene with Changcheng and Lin Jing (and the flashback with Lin Jing and Zhao Yunlan) is shot in reflections, which adds to the sense of undercover/changing sides, I think.
Oooh, good point!
Zhao Yunlan scolding humanity for giving Ye Zun a foothold really only works in a culture of self-criticism, I think. Anywhere else, and people would just feel aggrieved and resentful. ;-p
LOL! That makes sense.
Wow, given the previous discussion about Lin Jing as Prof Ouyang's protege, setting Lin Jing up as a spy against Prof Ouyang is asking so much -- but Lin Jing doesn't even hesitate.
Yeah, but Zhao Yunlan overheard Lin Jing defend the SID and criticise Professor Ouyang to Professor Ouyang's face, so he has reason to be confident in Lin Jing's choice.
And Lin Jing does! A lot of the others would have stayed and tried to help Changcheng, but Lin Jing knows he's no use in a fight, lol.
Ha, yeah, very true!
Are DoS staff not allowed phones anymore?? If so, surely there should have been a memo!
They're not allowed phones inside the Inspectorate any more, but Lin Jing had the illicit one he watched the livestream on, so how it got disconnected I don't know. Maybe you're right and they disabled everything after the broadcast?
And then, is he referring to YOHE when he says he knows his history about everyone working together? When/how did he hear that? Maybe from Zhu Hong...
It's fascinating given that the general story in the modern day seems to be that the Yashou kept out of the conflict ...
Chu Shuzhi seems to think this really is Dixingren versus the SID (or versus Haixing), rather than an uprising of Dixing malcontents. (Maybe he's right by now, after the treaty burning?)
I don't think it explains why Chu Shuzhi looks at it as Dixingren vs. the SID/Haixing because Ye Huo very much is not under the influence, but I think at this point it can be fairly assumed that it's Dixing vs. Haixing because Dixing is firmly under Ye Zun's control. Idk.
ewww, the Regent calls Chu Shuzhi "little doll"? /o\
娃娃 can mean baby or child or doll. All creepy!
I wonder if the Envoy's reference to the long line of the puppet clan means that one of his YOHE soldiers was Chu Shuzhi's forebear...
Oh, I love that idea!
Ooh! Chu Shuzhi & Nianzhi & Changcheng ≡ Shen Wei & Kunlun & Zhao Yunlan minus the timeloop!!!!
!!!!!! I see what you mean!!!!!!!
(Oh, hey, I wonder if he really mistrusts/misunderstands which side Chu Shuzhi is on and thinks he might give the Hallows to the invading forces...)
Zhao Xinci totally would think that!
Narratively, I think Zhao Xinci and Zhang Shi need to be at odds, because we need to see light and dark energy as a (metaphorically) volatile mix within a body, to foreshadow Shen Wei's contingency plan.
Yes! And also because they represent Haixing and Dixing (or Haixingren and Dixingren) in general - so they can't be in harmony because that's for Shen Wei and Zhao Yunlan to achieve, to overcome bigotry and bring people together ...
(We never actually see Chu Shuzhi kill anyone in present day, do we?)
Oooh, that's an excellent point, I hadn't thought of that before!
Zhu Hong and Da Qing waking up, saying "Zhao Yunlan" and "dried fish" in exactly the same tone of voice. ♥♥♥!!!
YES, I love it so much! :D
So the episode starts with the broadcast to humans, and ends with trying to get the truth to Dixingren. Nice.
Great observation! I love that!
I also feel like everyone is crossing lines this episode: Zhao Yunlan is directly defying the DoS's order not to talk to the public, Professor Ouyang is crossing so many ethical lines I lost count, Ye Zun actually enters the DoS, Zhao Xinci pulls his gun on Changcheng, etc.etc. And now we find the SID barrier seems to still be down, allowing the Crows into the SID.
Very cool! Yes, that totally makes thematic sense!
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Given context, it might well be distribution, right?
Yeah, but Zhao Yunlan overheard Lin Jing defend the SID and criticise Professor Ouyang to Professor Ouyang's face, so he has reason to be confident in Lin Jing's choice.
True, good point. I still find it interesting that Lin Jing's loyalty doesn't seem at all divided. (You can criticise something while still respecting them, you know?)
They're not allowed phones inside the Inspectorate any more
I wasn't sure if that was everyone, or just visitors.
It's fascinating given that the general story in the modern day seems to be that the Yashou kept out of the conflict ...
Right? But the Yashou know about Fu You.
but I think at this point it can be fairly assumed that it's Dixing vs. Haixing because Dixing is firmly under Ye Zun's control.
That makes sense.
!!!!!! I see what you mean!!!!!!!
:D :D :D :D :D
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Yeah, that would make sense in context. He wants the serum to be used!
I still find it interesting that Lin Jing's loyalty doesn't seem at all divided. (You can criticise something while still respecting them, you know?)
Yeah, true.
I wasn't sure if that was everyone, or just visitors.
Guo Changcheng isn't meant to be a visitor; he's meant to work there, right? And Lin Jing also says something about it in the bathroom - he says he has the phone because he confiscated it, IIRC. Presumably he's not using his own because he's not allowed one either, or that's how I understood it anyway.
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Ah, I missed both those parts. Makes sense!