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sid_guardian2023-08-19 12:56 am
trobadora) wrote in sid_guardian2023-08-19 12:56 am
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GUARDIAN REWATCH - Episode 31
Beginning of episode: Zhao Yunlan confronts Zhang Shi
Ending of episode: Zhao Yunlan confronts Chu Shuzhi
Important scenes/developments:
- Zhao Yunlan confronts Zhang Shi
- Flashback: Zhang Shi entering Zhao Xinci's body; agreement between them to secretly work together
- Zhao Yunlan confronts his father; Zhao Xinci wants to use the non-human SID members as scapegoats
- Zhu Hong meets Zhao Yunlan in the street; she's worried about him, and he tries to send her away
- Ya Qing attacks Zhu Hong and Zhao Yunlan
- Minister Gao can't stop the rumours, and gives the go-ahead for action
- Zhao Yunlan remembers his promise to Shen Wei, and his father's threat to shut down the SID
- Zhu Hong won't wake up; Zhao Yunlan enters her dream
- Flashback: younger Zhao Yunlan and Zhu Hong chasing someone on a case
- Chu Shuzhi stops men from the Inspectorate from entering to shut down the SID
- Flashback: younger Zhu Hong tries to make herself over in the image of a human woman
- Shen Wei senses Zhao Yunlan's energies are in turmoil; Ye Zun taunts him
- Guo Changcheng enters the dream; Zhu Hong lashes out at him and Chu Shuzhi's puppet protects him
- Zhu Hong talks to Zhao Yunlan about their relationship; he admits she's important to him
- Zhao Yunlan confronts Chu Shuzhi about endangering Zhu Hong
Thoughts:
Apologies for the lateness of this post!
This episode has comparatively little plot development beyond the Inspectorate moving to shut down the SID. Even the Nightmare Master arc, which is beginning here, is more of a delaying factor as far as progress towards the final showdown is concerned. But what we get along the way is a focus on character, character development and history.
Father(s) and Son: Zhao Xinci, Zhang Shi and Zhao Yunlan
- Zhao Yunlan cites his father's inconsistent behaviour, and especially Zhang Shi claiming that "the three words 'do no harm' are the greatest good in the world" (episode 29) as evidence for this not really being his father - but the boundaries between the two are not always so clear. When Zhao Yunlan pulls his gun, Zhang Shi reacts in a very Zhao Xinci tone ("Very good. Bold but cautious.") and Zhao Yunlan promptly calls him on it ("Don't talk to me in his tone; I'm not your son."). I'm not sure if his theory is that some time in the recent past someone else took over and began impersonating his father, with occasional slips, or if he's concluded that his father is still there but with an alternate personality that occasionally takes over (and if so, why he thinks his father isn't fighting it), but either way he's very taken aback to realise this has been going on for 20 years!
(Which is another piece of evidence for Zhang Shi being mostly silent or strictly in Zhao Xinci mode during Zhao Yunlan's childhood, or else Zhao Yunlan would have seen his father's inconsistent behaviour as nothing unusual.) - The flashbacks to the beginning of Zhang Shi's life in Zhao Xinci's body are fascinating!
- We learn that 20 years ago, Dixingren were causing trouble on the surface to a degree that the SID was created. I wonder what department Zhao Xinci and Gao Jingfeng were working for prior to that, since they're clearly working on Dixing-related cases. Part of the regular police force?
- Zhao Xinci's opinion on a potential SID: "If it helps us keep the peace, fine with me." And it's only after he says this that Zhang Shi chooses him as a host, which speaks to his motivations and agenda in general. (I always wonder what would have happened if he's chosen Gao Jingfeng instead! - And also what exactly happened to Zhang Shi's previous host, since he apparently killed himself.)
- When Zhang Shi enters Zhao Xinci, Zhao Xinci stumbles and clutches his heart, a clear sign that his heart trouble is related to Zhang Shi in some way. (And IMO it has to be Zhang Shi's presence, not just Zhang Shi taking control - I'm pretty sure Zhang Shi isn't taking control here. I don't think Zhao Xinci would have been as willing to go along with it all if Zhang Shi had taken his control away from him right at the start.)
- The visual of Zhao Xinci using a bathroom mirror to talk to Zhang Shi are excellent!
- Zhang Shi admits to being Dixingren, but immediately disclaims that he's not like them, either divorcing himself from other Dixingren in general or (more charitably) from the criminals Zhao Xinci has been chasing - he does say he doesn't like Dixingren causing trouble.
- Zhang Shi also says he remembers a time when Dixingren and humans lived in peace, which can only have been after the YOHE war, despite the final YOHE scene where the Dixingren leader says that "from now on, aboveground and underground we'll have nothing to do with each other." Of course, Zhang Shi lived through nearly 10,000 years and may have seen many changes in Dixing/Haixing relations!
- Zhang Shi warns Zhao Xinci that casting him out could harm Zhao Xinci, and asks if there's nothing in this world he is still attached to - which is exactly when the phone rings and young Zhao Yunlan asks his dad if he's finished work yet. From Zhao Xinci's fond smile when he says he'll be home soon, presumably at this point his relationship with his son was much better than after Shen Xi's death, but I do still get the impression that he's not a very present father regardless, putting work over family - that his absence is more expected than not.
- Zhao Xinci decides very quickly, claiming that worrying about things he can't change would be foolish, and insisting both that Zhang Shi help him with his job, and that no one can ever know about his presence. He's decided he can use this to his advantage, and he's being simultaneously very ruthless and gullible; he has no external reason to believe a single thing Zhang Shi tells him, and still chooses to take that chance, rather than taking a different risk and letting others know, so they can potentially find a way to safely remove Zhang Shi from his body.
- Zhang Shi enthusiastically agrees to Zhao Xinci's proposal - and he sounds almost childish here. In fact, he sounds very naïve overall, which he never does in any other scene we see him speak in; I have to assume he's making himself seem more harmless and innocent in order to convince Zhao Xinci to let him stay.
- Zhang Shi claims that Shen Xi's death and Zhao Xinci's subsequent obsession with what the subtitles have as "exterminating Dixingren" - the original phrase 除恶务尽 means something like "completely eradicating evil" changed things, but he hasn't been able to interfere much. Nevertheless, he also claims he acted as Zhao Yunlan's father half the time. Which isn't impossible if he simply acted exactly as Zhao Xinci would have, but I have to admit I don't see why Zhao Xinci would let him. He clearly wants to keep Zhang Shi away from his family as much as possible.
- When Zhao Yunlan calls his father out on his hypocrisy - catching so many Dixingren while also having one sharing his own life - Zhao Xinci claims that "I've always said nothing in this world is absolute good or evil. As long it benefits the people, I don't think my compromises are wrong." He believes, apparently, that his own compromises are acceptable, but for other people, much more rigid rules should be applied. (See, for example, poor Bao Laosan back in the day! If breaking the rules must strictly be punished no matter what, shouldn't Zhang Shi be punished as a Dixingren who's not meant to be in Haixing? And shouldn't Zhao Xinci be punished for deliberately covering up his presence?)
- Zhao Xinci's attempt to reconcile with his son has to be seen to be believed, because nobody who knows Zhao Yunlan even a little would buy that this could work. But Zhao Xinci apparently does: he tells Zhao Yunlan they should get rid of the stumbling block of the SID and reunite as father and son. After all, now that the existence of Dixingren and the SID has been exposed, someone needs to be the scapegoat - so let's use the non-humans on staff! People of different species shouldn't be working together; at some point they'll go back where they belong anyway, so what does it matter? Seriously, this is simultaneously so stunningly bigoted and wilfully blind to everything that makes Zhao Yunlan who he is, it beggars belief. Zhao Yunlan is so furious, he forgets to take his gun when he storms out. But first he tells his father that if he achieves nothing else, he'll definitely protect his people, and Zhao Xinci threatens him with shutting down the SID. (And Zhao Yunlan shoulder-checks him on the way out and slams the door!)
This entire attempt at a father-son reconciliation really shows how little Zhao Xinci knows his son - and moreover, how little he cares to know him as a person with his own values. He calls him "a fool who only appears flexible on the outside", as if he didn't understand the concept of principles one won't compromise on: he seems to still treat this as some kind of childish rebellion on Zhao Yunlan's behalf, rather than a clash of ideals. He has an idea in his head about what his son should be like, and where Zhao Yunlan deviates from that, it's not even just that he disagrees, judges him for it or tries to change him - he outright refuses to recognise it at all. It's willful blindness that of course, as anyone (other than Zhao Xinci) could have predicted, alienates Zhao Yunlan further. In short, Zhao Xinci is a horrible father who thinks he loves his son, but really doesn't even bother to know who his son is.
(He does say, after Zhao Yunlan has left, that for his sake, he'll take the fallout, and in a later scene with Minister Gao he asks the Minister to give Zhao Yunlan an out, but that mitigates basically no one of the above in my eyes.) - Also, in light of this attempt on Zhao Xinci's behalf, I think it's not just Zhang Shi who decided to take Zhao Yunlan home rather than to the Inspectorate or the Xingdu Bureau last episode - they both wanted to talk to Zhao Yunlan in private, if not for the same reason.
Being Human: Zhu Hong and Zhao Yunlan
- After leaving his father, Zhao Yunlan runs into Zhu Hong in the street, and immediately is rather unpleasant to her, asking her why it's her and complaining about her being outside at all. All through this scene, he does his best to rebuff her concern and push her away, mostly maintaining a callous façade. He's not expecting things to end well (As he says in one of the few more sincere moments in this scene, "From the moment I took the position of chief, I never expected to have a good end. The only question is, is it worth dying for or not?"), and he knows that his father has threatened to use the non-human SID members as scapegoats, and that he may well not be able to protect them much longer, but his behaviour is not helping. Meanwhile, Zhu Hong is rightfully worried about him as well - as she says, she heard about him being taken away, and she's also concerned he may be making things worse.
(And she doesn't like it any better than Shen Wei does when he tries to downplay the problem with "if a problem encounters me, it's no longer a problem"! Or when he talks about his own potential death.) - Zhu Hong often gets flak for bringing up her feelings for Zhao Yunlan at the least opportune moment, but for the longest time she does keep things professional - she asks about the situation, tries to get him to take the threat seriously, voices her worry about what will happen to the SID if Zhao Yunlan is in trouble. He's the one who's being abrasive as hell at her right from the start, unwilling to accept her worry as a friend and colleague, snarking about the Snake Tribe, and so on. Half the time he won't even look at her. She gets fed up and asks him if they can have a normal conversation, but that doesn't help either, and it's no wonder she's losing her patience and calls him on it when he seems to be trying to push her out of the SID! For all her feelings for Zhao Yunlan, she's worried about the consequences of the leak about the SID, and she can't get him to focus on it at all. Meanwhile, he seems determined to make her feel unwanted.
Even then, she tries hard to stay professional. When he tells her he's worried about Shen Wei and wants to go take a look. She tries to get him to focus on the current crisis and tells him he can't take the risk to go to Dixing now, but he's not listening or engaging with anything she says - instead, he tries to play it cool and reaches for his usual façade, tells that if she leaves she'll still get her bonus. She calls him a bastard, and he just smirks at her.
And that is the final straw for her, after all: only then does she make it personal and asks him if in his heart, she really can't compare with Shen Wei. And why he won't ask her to stay. No, that's not the best time to bring this up, and no, it's not helping, but he's been pushing all her buttons, and I really don't think she can be blamed at this point. - Zhao Yunlan, still in trying-to-push-her-away mode: "I'm a foulmouthed jerk, I've got a bad temper, I can't fake sweet and considerate for more than three days. And I'm a loser; there's no such thing as a settled life for me, and I only cause trouble. Even my dad dislikes me." Which, honestly, says more about his self-image than about anything relevant for Zhu Hong. She knows he's a jerk, and she likes him anyway. She even offers to leave her tribe and break ties with them - in response to which he struggles with his composure for a moment, hiding his face behind the hand holding his lollipop, laughs, calls her Hong-jie and asks why she'd think he'd hurt her like that. But he won't treat her as a friend or a colleague, so all he achieves is being condescending.
- Nevertheless, during Ya Qing's attack, they both try to protect each other. When Zhu Hong is struck, it's because she moved in front of him.
- In Zhu Hong's dream, we get a flashback of younger Zhu Hong and Zhao Yunlan chasing a Dixingren. Zhao Yunlan moves Zhu Hong out of the way and catching her in his arm in a very romance novel kind of way, punches the guy out. I wonder how close to reality this is; we know from the other dreams we see later that the Nightmare Master's dreams are built on reality but not necessarily identical.
If it did happen that way, then Zhu Hong was in the field at the beginning, even though she's definitely not a field agent at the start of canon. Is this how she got relegated to office work? Because she insisted on wearing high heels, and he told her to not come out in heels next time? - Also interesting: she initially doesn't seem to recognise present!Zhao Yunlan when he calls her name, and she only calls past!Zhao Yunlan by his "Ghost Terror" (鬼见愁) nickname, which we otherwise hear in canon only a handful of times, and always only from Zhu Hong. I wonder how he acquired that nickname.
- It's such a contrast between their real-world confrontation in the street and what's happening inside the dream world: whereas before Zhao Yunlan was trying to push her away, now he's the one going after her, grabbing her hand, telling her to come back with him. But she doesn't want to wake up, ignores him, then when he insists, pushes him away with her power.
- Regardless of how true-to-life the flashback is, we learn much about Zhu Hong's early days among humans: trying human food and being unimpressed but sticking with it; suppressing her cravings for raw meat; attempting to walk in heels and not understanding the point but keeping up with it. All because of Zhao Yunlan: "He said he likes it when I'm ladylike. He said he likes it when I wear high heels. I need to wear high heels." She changes herself so much for his sake, even if she does end up liking the person she becomes at the SID.
- After she attacks Xiao-Guo and Chu Shuzhi's power restrains her, she sinks to the floor, crying, and Zhao Yunlan rushes forward, gripping her shoulder and calling her name. She doesn't want to remember; she doesn't want to wake up - but now she can't hide any more. She starts talking out her feelings, about how she tried to change for Zhao Yunlan, become like a regular woman so he'd like her. And when he didn't like her that way, she thought she could be happy just being his subordinate - but now he doesn't even want her on his team. (He looks down, apparently realising just then how badly that hit her!) She just wants to be needed, and he doesn't even want her to face trouble by his side, never mind anything else. During this whole speech he's not quite looking at her, clearly hit hard by this and feeling pretty bad. His LA LA LA I CAN'T HEAR YOU attitude towards her feelings has made it impossible for them to be real friends, even though he very much does care for her as a friend - he's stuck keeping her at arm's length and constantly hurting her by treating her badly for no reason.
She says she wants to stay in the dream, where it's only the two of them and he won't talk about Shen Wei. (Again positioning Shen Wei as a rival for the clearly romantic interest Zhu Hong has in Zhao Yunlan, thereby making the otherwise subtextual main relationship pretty damn unambiguously gay, censorship be damned.) For real him, she believes, everything and everyone else is more important to him than her - and it takes this to actually make him finally open up with her, telling her how he truly feels: "Zhu Hong, you are very important to me. All of you are my friends, my family. No one is more important than another. I need every one of you to help me keep the SID going."
And that is almost enough for her. She still needs her feelings to be acknowledged. Before she agrees to leave, she wants to say something to him as a woman. He's just on the edge of a grimace, but nods and lets her, even though he clearly still doesn't entirely get it. She smiles. "Zhao Yunlan, I like you. Since the first time I met you." He looks away, feeling awkward, unsure what she expects, but all she says is, "Okay, let's get out." Because she doesn't need anything from him other than that he hear her, that he see her, that he treat her as someone who matters. ♥ - (I wonder just how much all of this is compelled by the Nightmare Master's power - how much is simply the dream confronting Zhu Hong with her feelings, and how much it enhances those feelings, making it hard for her to break free.)
- I love the way they they flinch apart after they wake up, as soon as Xiao-Guo speaks up! They look so incredibly awkward, awww. :D
Assorted other things:
- From Ya Qing's conversation with shadow!Ye Zun, we discover that she's tried to get into the SID, but hasn't been able to because of the protection field. (It protects against Yashou as well as Dixingren, then, due to both of them having black energy, which makes sense.) What's interesting is that she claims that other than the SID's own people's energy signatures, no one can get in - which sounds as if she hasn't worked out that humans can! Which would be a remarkable blind spot, but it can't be true, given Tan Xiao's SID invasion.
- When Ya Qing attacks Zhao Yunlan and Zhu Hong, he reaches into his jacket for his gun, only then realising it's not there!
- Minister Gao on the phone: "Didn't I ask you to control the public opinion? How come more and more people know about the SID?" - but his people can't keep up with the rumours being spread. He orders them to keep deleting as much as they can, then makes a new phone call and says they can't drag it out any more, they need to act now. It's not said outright, but I assume this is about shutting down the SID.
I'm not sure how much censorship we should assume Haixing has in general, but either way it's not up to this kind of online campaign. And given that news about the SID even makes it into a printed newspaper on the following day, it's not really achieving much that we can see. - I love Guo Changcheng keeping Zhao Yunlan from leaving because Zhu Hong told him to stop him from causing trouble by going out! This must have been before her confrontation with Zhao Yunlan in the street, and she's determined to protect both him personally and the SID as a whole. Meanwhile Xiao-Guo is utterly refusing to back down even when Zhao Yunlan makes as if to hit him. ♥
- How the Nightmare Master's power spreads:
- It clearly gets into Zhu Hong via the scratches Ya Qing gives her, which is a strange way to spread an active power around. But Zhao Yunlan points out that black energy shouldn't be able to get inside the shield, so presumably the scratches were to smuggle it inside, where it could spread? (I wonder if that means Ya Qing herself is infected, but immune to it somehow?)
- It also seems to spread via direct touch - Zhao Yunlan is drawn into Zhu Hong's dream by holding her hand. On the other hand, Guo Changcheng passing out from the alcohol Chu Shuzhi gave him is also drawn into the dream, without touching either of them. So perhaps it doesn't quite spread like Kong Jing's power?
In conclusion, I have no idea, and hope it'll be explained later! I have zero memory of this, though. *g* - Shen Wei only makes a brief appearance in this episode, looking very pale and drawn chained to the pillar. But even across the distance between Dixing and Haixing, he can sense something is wrong with Zhao Yunlan's essence after Zhu Hong attacks him inside her dream - it's unstable. (I wonder if the connection that lets him sense this is due to the Sundial, or if he has other methods of keeping track of Zhao Yunlan.) He's not taking it well, shouting his anger and worry.
Meanwhile, when Guo Changcheng approaches Zhu Hong inside the dream, she blasts him with her energy, and Chu Shuzhi's puppet appears to protect him - Shen Wei isn't the only one sensitive to when his loved on is in danger! - Shen Wei is also aware of the Nightmare Master's existence and recognises the reference when Ye Zun taunts him about giving Zhao Yunlan a romantic dream. Perhaps he's previously arrested the Nightmare Master and knows about his power that way.
- Zhao Yunlan literally kicks Guo Changcheng out of the dream! satsuma suggested that may be an Inception joke - apparently in that film, the way you navigate up a level (or out of) a dream in inception is called a "kick". :D
- Random detail from the newspaper: it's from Phoenix City; it says the day is Sunday, 1 November, and the headline reads, "The sinister Special Investigations Department of Bright Road".
- Love Lao-Chu pushing Zhao Yunlan as he's about to get up, making him fall on top of Zhu Hong, testing how out of it she really is. Also love Lao-Chu stopping the Inspectorate men and telling them to scram!
- I'll leave the big Zhao Yunlan/Chu Shuzhi confrontation for next episode's discussion, since there's more of it there, but Zhao Yunlan is furious with Chu Shuzhi - snarls his full name, slaps the newspaper on the desk, throws the wooden puppet down, glares at Chu Suzhi as he shouts at him, accusing him of putting Zhu Hong at risk by activating his puppet inside Zhu Hong's dream. Chu Shuzhi is calm at first, but then shouts back, accusing Zhao Yunlan of being too soft-hearted: "Sometimes you need to be ruthless, or you'll miss the big picture and regret it forever."
- Chu Shuzhi must be feeling very alone and like he has to do everything on his own while under siege. It must feel to him like no one else is doing anything to deal with the current situation - Zhu Hong is unconscious; Da Qing is missing; Zhao Yunlan pushes taking care of Zhu Hong off on Guo Changcheng, goes off to hide in his office, and later falls asleep and gets drawn into Zhu Hong's dream. Meanwhile, rumours outside are flying, and the Ministry is trying to shut them down, and on top of all of that, the Envoy is probably in trouble in Dixing. No wonder he's getting a bit reckless and in over his head!
Discussion starters:
- What's your favourite moment in this episode? Your favourite line? I think mine is Zhao Yunlan confronting his father, promising to protect his people. ♥
- I always get hung up on how the scenes don't match between the ending of episode 30 and the beginning of 31: in episode 30, Zhao Yunlan calls Zhang Shi out on not being Zhao Xinci and then, when Zhang Shi asks how he knows, promptly pulls his gun, whereas in episode 31, he first explains his reasoning, and doesn't pull his gun until Zhang Shi tells him he's talking nonsense. And I actually feel it works better if he pulls his gun right away. What do you think? Any preference?
- What do you think is Zhang Shi's motivation in choosing Zhao Xinci as a host, and working with him? And what do you think of Zhao Xinci's "compromise" with Zhang Shi?
- Why do you think Zhao Yunlan is trying so hard to push Zhu Hong away in this episode? Would he have done the same to other SID members?
- Chu Shuzhi says Zhu Hong's wound is just a wound - no poison, no curse. (He doesn't appear to have detected black energy either, but then perhaps it's indistinguishable from a Yashou's own energy.) What do you think a "curse" is in the context of Guardian's sci-fi context? And how do you check for one?
- Does anyone know what "human food" Zhu Hong is eating here?
- When Ye Zun taunts Shen Wei and says he's curious what Shen Wei's dream will look like, Shen Wei claims he doesn't have dreams. Ye Zun asks if it's that he doesn't have dreams or if it's that he doesn't dare dream; Shen Wei claims he doesn't need to dream, implying it's because he has the real thing. Do you think Shen Wei doesn't dream in general? Or is this in relation to how the Nightmare Master's power functions - is this not about literal dreaming-while-asleep, but about having unfulfilled dreams for your life for the Nightmare Master's power to latch onto?
- Chu Shuzhi gives Guo Changcheng a vial with what he calls a magic potion and what turns out to be alcohol. Why do you think he has this? What's it actually for? And how does he know it will help Xiao-Guo enter the dream?
- How did Chu Shuzhi make his puppet manifest in Zhu Hong's dream? Did he plant it on Guo Changcheng somehow, without Xiao-Guo's knowledge? And in the confrontation at the end, Zhao Yunlan throws the smaller version of the puppet on his desk. How did he get it? He didn't grab it in the dream, at least.
- Speaking of, why do you think Zhao Yunlan is so sure activating the puppet inside the dream is dangerous? And is he aware that Zhu Hong attacking him and Xiao-Guo in the dream is also dangerous? (Shen Wei can sense the instability it causes in Zhao Yunlan from Dixing!)
Let's talk about episode 31!
Come and talk about this episode - anything from favourite scenes or lines of dialogue to notes/questions about continuity or translation, most gorgeous (or angsty) smile, or anything else that strikes your fancy! And share links to your own and/or others' episode-related meta, picspams, and fanworks, new or old!
Links to episode 31 fanworks and meta go here!
- any other episode reactions or related meta
- fanworks, picspams, squee, etc, relating to episode 31 generally or to specific scenes, characters, or events in this episode
Link to your own works and/or others'. Help us build as comprehensive a collection of links as possible!Re: Links to episode 31 fanworks and meta go here!
Guardian Episode by Episode: 31 by
Scene discussion:
"Internal and external trouble": Zhao Yunlan and Chu Shuzhi clash by
Re: Links to episode 31 fanworks and meta go here!
Stranger than it should have been is a re-telling on eps 1 & 2, but Da Qing is Shen Wei's friend instead of Zhao Yunlan's. It includes his anti-Snake attitudes and Zhu Hong's attempts to adapt, as well as his defences generally, informed by this episode.
Zhang Shi & Zhao Xinci(/Shen Xi)
Precious Ordinary Things - Zhao Xinci and Zhang Shi get home, that first night
adjustment phase - the second night, Zhao Xinci doesn't want to go home
A Fine Mess We're In (Guardian pre-canon Shen Xi AU) - unfinished two-parts-so-far AU series where Shen Xi finds out about Zhang Shi (endgame is OT3, but I haven't got super far yet)
Meta
Zhao Yunlan and Zhu Hong in ep 31 - meta about the Zhu Hong scene (including some discussion in comments)
Picspam of that scene, plus some more meta discussion in comments
Character post re Zhang Shi (again)
Draft pre-canon timeline of Zhao Xinci-related flashbacks
Re: Links to episode 31 fanworks and meta go here!
no subject
Zhao Xinci wants to use the non-human SID members as scapegoats
I don't think he thinks it would particularly harm them, for what little that's worth; he says they'll return to their own places anyway, once the SID is disbanded.
We learn that 20 years ago, Dixingren were causing trouble on the surface to a degree that the SID was created.
Sent up by Ye Zun, presumably.
I wonder what department Zhao Xinci and Gao Jingfeng were working for prior to that, since they're clearly working on Dixing-related cases. Part of the regular police force?
I always thought they were regular cops, yeah.
Zhang Shi admits to being Dixingren, but immediately disclaims that he's not like them, either divorcing himself from other Dixingren in general or (more charitably) from the criminals Zhao Xinci has been chasing - he does say he doesn't like Dixingren causing trouble.
I don't read that charitably. I think Zhang Shi is distancing himself from all Dixingren to make himself more palatable. He doesn't know much about Zhao Xinci's attitude at this stage, but he has good reason to be as placatory as possible.
Zhang Shi also says he remembers a time when Dixingren and humans lived in peace
Does he actually say "remembers"? The Viki subs have "I know how Dixingren and humans have lived harmoniously before." -- I thought Ma Gui might have told him about the Allied Forces, ie, it might be learned knowledge, rather than experienced?
Zhang Shi warns Zhao Xinci that casting him out could harm Zhao Xinci
Ugh, this is the bit where he really crosses the line into coercive, and it makes me squirm so much. I want to like Zhang Shi, but this is super creepy. I really wish we'd got to see Zhao Xinci's choice without it.
presumably at this point his relationship with his son was much better than after Shen Xi's death, but I do still get the impression that he's not a very present father regardless, putting work over family - that his absence is more expected than not.
You and I have discussed this before, iirc, and my take is still different from yours. I doubt Haixing has a 40-hour working week. Zhao Xinci works hard to provide for his family -- that's being a good father by the standards of his context. And he and Zhao Yunlan are on good terms, back then. (My reaction is partly informed by corporate-setting Kdramas where fathers routinely work until well past their children's bedtime and aren't at all judged for it.)
Zhao Xinci decides very quickly, claiming that worrying about things he can't change would be foolish
This is such a defining character moment. (The only area where he doesn't seem to have this attitude is with Zhao Yunlan. ;-p)
he has no external reason to believe a single thing Zhang Shi tells him, and still chooses to take that chance, rather than taking a different risk and letting others know, so they can potentially find a way to safely remove Zhang Shi from his body.
Maybe he can sense Zhang Shi's sincerity? Anyway, I'm not sure who he could have turned to. He doesn't trust any Dixingren, we don't even know if the Envoy is on the scene at this stage as far as Haixing law enforcement is concerned, and if he revealed the situation to others and removing Zhang Shi didn't work, he'd be exposed with this "weakness". (I think
In fact, he sounds very naïve overall, which he never does in any other scene we see him speak in; I have to assume he's making himself seem more harmless and innocent in order to convince Zhao Xinci to let him stay.
Or maybe he kind of re-sets between bodies, and his philosophical maturity is re-acquired over the next 20 years? Idk. I really want to be able to give Zhang Shi the benefit of the doubt, because otherwise Zhao Xinci's situation is kind of unbearable to think about.
Zhang Shi claims that Shen Xi's death and Zhao Xinci's subsequent obsession with what the subtitles have as "exterminating Dixingren" - the original phrase 除恶务尽 means something like "completely eradicating evil" changed things, but he hasn't been able to interfere much.
I feel like Zhang Shi is trying to side with Zhao Yunlan against Zhao Xinci here. /o\ And Zhao Yunlan is having none of it: rejects Zhang Shi's touch, insists on talking to his father -- which is probably part of why Zhao Xinci thinks they can join forces as father and son...
Also, from "All these years, your dad and I shared all the happiness and sadness." I feel like Zhang Shi thinks of it like a marriage, but from Zhao Xinci it's something very different and wrong that he's had to learn to live with and bear. You know?
ZXC: But that day on the roof, you risked your life to save me. I was deeply touched. I also feel that it's time for me to come back.
It's so interesting that he frames it as coming back. Like, that so much of the distance between them has been his own complete withdrawal.
And then Zhao Yunlan is given clear choice between his father and the SID, and he chooses the SID. I think some of Zhao Xinci's critical reaction comes from hurt (though he would probably never admit that to himself). And also trying to pressure Zhao Yunlan in order to protect him (he sounds relatively gentle there, by his standards?), but of course, Zhao Yunlan only ever hears the criticism.
ZYL: That's because false information misled the public's opinion.
me: So Ya Qing really did falsify the SID's data...?
This entire attempt at a father-son reconciliation really shows how little Zhao Xinci knows his son
Yes, but also how much Zhao Yunlan has changed? At the start of the show, Zhao Yunlan was "arrest them all", which isn't really all that different from Zhao Xinci's stance. Zhao Yunlan wasn't even close to his team, except for Da Qing. So I think Zhao Xinci is a bit out of date, a bit old-fashionedly expecting his son to respect his elders and fall into step, and a bit just wrong-headed when it comes to Zhao Yunlan generally.
From his POV, he's being pragmatic: just like when Zhang Shi took up residence, here Zhao Xinci is going "this is the situation we're faced with; how do we deal with it?"
And I think Zhao Yunlan's rejection really is a sign of how far he and the SID has come, partly as a response to Shen Wei's presence, but also from exposure to Guo Changcheng's good-heartedness and bravery.
And it costs Zhao Yunlan so much. Like, I do think he still has deep feelings about his father, and this is his father essentially giving him an ultimatum that forces Zhao Yunlan to reject him outright.
ZXC: To tell you the truth, I don't believe different species should be working together.
This might actually be a symptom of how coerced and unwilling he was to work with Zhang Shi? He's making the best of it, but he doesn't think it's right? Idk.
He calls him "a fool who only appears flexible on the outside", as if he didn't understand the concept of principles one won't compromise on: he seems to still treat this as some kind of childish rebellion on Zhao Yunlan's behalf, rather than a clash of ideals.
I mean, in his defence, when Zhao Yunlan is around Zhao Xinci everything gets coloured with a large helping of filial impiety and defiance, so that misunderstanding isn't entirely unreasonable? Zhao Xinci isn't as perceptive as Zhao Yunlan, and his view is very obscured by their history.
Also, in light of this attempt on Zhao Xinci's behalf, I think it's not just Zhang Shi who decided to take Zhao Yunlan home rather than to the Inspectorate or the Xingdu Bureau last episode - they both wanted to talk to Zhao Yunlan in private, if not for the same reason.
I'm not sure about this? I don't know if Zhao Xinci would have made his offer if Zhao Yunlan hadn't refused to side with Zhang Shi. Maybe he would have tried to find another way out of the mess, eg, by twisting Gao Jingfeng's arm, since Zhao Xinci outranks him?
(Ha, I knew I had a lot to say about this scene, but I didn't know it was this much!)
Anyway, one of the things I find fascinating is the comparison between Zhao Xinci's critique of Zhao Yunlan here at the start of the episode ("But I didn't realize that you were still someone who seemed to be easy going on the outside, a stick in the mud on the inside. A stupid personality.") and Chu Shuzhi's attack at the end ("I think it's you, Zhao Yunlan, who is too softhearted! Sometimes, you need to be heartless or you might miss the big picture and regret it forever!"). Firstly, it's ironic that Chu Shuzhi is accusing Zhao Yunlan of the very thing that stopped Zhao Yunlan from throwing him under the bus. But secondly, it really highlights that this whole episode is wrestling with Zhao Yunlan's personality, and what is the right way for him to be. It's like all his internal frustration and doubt is being externalised and challenged. You know?
Oh, and now Ye Zun wants the Hallows... Shoulda kept hold of the Brush after all, then. ;-p
I've written lots about the Zhu Hong scene before. I think a ton of Zhao Yunlan's jerkishness here is down to his being upset and rattled by the previous scene, so I'm fully prepared to cut him slack on that score. He can't bear that anyone's treating him as worthwhile or worthy of consideration and caring, especially right now. (And especially with Shen Wei probably in trouble, and him not doing a single thing to help.) And he spends the whole time trying soooo hard to let her down easy, and she just won't give him an out.
Zhu Hong says, "Lao Zhao, this time it's different than before. Don't take on everything!" She's trying to be his Kunlun ("You still have me!"), but he won't let her in. (Also interesting that she thinks his family connections might be protecting him; she's right, of course.)
Zhu Hong often gets flak for bringing up her feelings for Zhao Yunlan at the least opportune moment
Really? I am judging those flak-givers!! ;-p
He's the one who's being abrasive as hell at her right from the start, unwilling to accept her worry as a friend and colleague, snarking about the Snake Tribe, and so on. Half the time he won't even look at her.
Yeah, otoh, I think he's dying inside and in enormous amounts of pain, and really not capable of having a serious conversation at this point.
Aside: does Minister Gao not understand that the SID didn't release the info themselves? He seems so mad at them.
I love that Zhao Yunlan makes Guo Changcheng do the first aid on Zhu Hong. Like, he knows it would be intimate / a romance trope coming from him, and he can't. And then he tries the incense again, and there's still no answer from Shen Wei. *pets him*
LOL at Guo Changcheng leaning on the frame that immediately falls over. (Why do they have that frame?)
And wow, the mixed feelings with which Zhao Yunlan lets himself / makes himself fall into Zhu Hong's dream. a;lsdkfja;sdlfkajd He doesn't want to do anything to raise her expectations, but he has to reach other and try to save her.
Zhao Yunlan moves Zhu Hong out of the way and catching her in his arm in a very romance novel kind of way, punches the guy out.
And then they startle apart like they're both aware of each other. You can see why Zhu Hong might have had reason to hope! (Wow, I feel like ZYL's clothing hasn't changed that much, but his whole vibe is different by ep 1!)
whereas before Zhao Yunlan was trying to push her away, now he's the one going after her, grabbing her hand, telling her to come back with him.
Oh, yes, excellent point!
In terms of parallels, we have Zhao Yunlan trapped in this dream and Shen Wei trapped at the pillar, too.
I loooove Chu Shuzhi taking charge. <3 <3 <3
And Zhao Yunlan having to confront the truth that his words have consequences, and people care about him.
ZH: Everyone has a more important place in your heart than me.
ZYL: You still don't understand me.
me: Because you haven't let her understand you.
And I'm just going to quote myself from the post linked above: When Guo Changcheng first showed up at the SID in episode 1, Zhao Yunlan talked a big game about the SID being a family, but he hasn't really internalised it until now. He's felt responsible for them, but not accepted how much they feel responsible for him too (because his self-worth issues number in the million, so of course he doesn't think he matters). It's not until here, in ep 31, that he can express himself, and then only because Zhu Hong needs him to in the dream.
It's a big turning point for him, I think -- accepting and expressing his feelings for his team. It's like the last important jigsaw puzzle piece on his way to becoming Kunlun, the man who could arrive in the young Envoy's life -- and young Da Qing's life -- and show them so much open and genuine affection, without defences or game-playing or kneejerk self-deprecation.
I love the way they they flinch apart after they wake up, as soon as Xiao-Guo speaks up! They look so incredibly awkward, awww. :D
I wonder how different that would have been if they'd woken up alone, whether they could have had a gentler re-entry to regular life... I do feel like Xiao Guo tripped their self-consciousness.
Minister Gao on the phone: "Didn't I ask you to control the public opinion? How come more and more people know about the SID?" - but his people can't keep up with the rumours being spread.
Oh, is he talking to his own people, there? I thought he was talking to someone at the SID (but I didn't know who).
I'm not sure how much censorship we should assume Haixing has in general, but either way it's not up to this kind of online campaign. And given that news about the SID even makes it into a printed newspaper on the following day, it's not really achieving much that we can see.
Good point about the newspaper!
Chu Shuzhi gives Guo Changcheng a vial with what he calls a magic potion and what turns out to be alcohol. Why do you think he has this? What's it actually for? And how does he know it will help Xiao-Guo enter the dream?
I made a note: "Why does CSZ carry around a vial of liquor, lol." But actually, maybe he prepared it overnight for this eventuality. I was wondering if it was connected with the doll in some way, too...
Speaking of, why do you think Zhao Yunlan is so sure activating the puppet inside the dream is dangerous? And is he aware that Zhu Hong attacking him and Xiao-Guo in the dream is also dangerous?
I think there's general agreement that being hurt in the dream or being trapped in the dream is dangerous. I think those are both reasonable assumptions, even if they don't know for sure.
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Yes, agreed, he does think that, and he's very wrong.
Sent up by Ye Zun, presumably.
Yes, presumably that was around the time Ye Zun was acting up before. Depending on how literally we take the "20 years", it's about when or shortly after the Envoy woke up, too. Lots of things happening at the time!
I always thought they were regular cops, yeah.
Yeah, which makes you wonder how much the regular police knows about Dixingren. Did they have a secret task force, or did the knowledge become more widespread?
I don't read that charitably. I think Zhang Shi is distancing himself from all Dixingren to make himself more palatable.
Yes, agreed! I read it the same way, but I wanted to mention a potential more charitable reading exists.
Does he actually say "remembers"? The Viki subs have "I know how Dixingren and humans have lived harmoniously before." -- I thought Ma Gui might have told him about the Allied Forces, ie, it might be learned knowledge, rather than experienced?
No, you're right, I checked the Chinese and he says "I know". So yeah, that may relate to either the Allied Forces, or just to ancient history prior to the meteor strike. But I still like the idea of Haixing-Dixing relations changing more often over the course of 10,000 years of history.
Ugh, this is the bit where he really crosses the line into coercive, and it makes me squirm so much.
It absolutely is coercive! We don't even know if he's telling the truth, considering he does eventually leave Zhao Xinci, at the end of the drama, without anything happening to Zhao Xinci as far as we know. And I do wonder what would have happened (or did happen) if a host insisted he find a reasonably safe way to remove himself.
You and I have discussed this before, iirc, and my take is still different from yours. I doubt Haixing has a 40-hour working week. Zhao Xinci works hard to provide for his family -- that's being a good father by the standards of his context. And he and Zhao Yunlan are on good terms, back then. (My reaction is partly informed by corporate-setting Kdramas where fathers routinely work until well past their children's bedtime and aren't at all judged for it.)
Your interpretation is entirely viable! But yeah, we're not going to agree on this one. I think Zhao Yunlan and Shen Wei both would judge any father who didn't make time for their children, despite their workaholic duty-driven personalities. *g*
This is such a defining character moment. (The only area where he doesn't seem to have this attitude is with Zhao Yunlan. ;-p)
LOL! Too true.
Maybe he can sense Zhang Shi's sincerity? Anyway, I'm not sure who he could have turned to. He doesn't trust any Dixingren, we don't even know if the Envoy is on the scene at this stage as far as Haixing law enforcement is concerned, and if he revealed the situation to others and removing Zhang Shi didn't work, he'd be exposed with this "weakness". (I think
Yeah, it's not really "who could he have turned to", but "who would he have been willing to turn to".
I do like the idea of their sharing a mind meaning ZXC can sense Zhang Shi's sincerity - that would help make the entire situation a bit less awful.
Or maybe he kind of re-sets between bodies, and his philosophical maturity is re-acquired over the next 20 years? Idk. I really want to be able to give Zhang Shi the benefit of the doubt, because otherwise Zhao Xinci's situation is kind of unbearable to think about.
Yeah, I don't buy the more charitable reading here either, but it's a fascinating thought!
I feel like Zhang Shi is trying to side with Zhao Yunlan against Zhao Xinci here. /o\ And Zhao Yunlan is having none of it: rejects Zhang Shi's touch, insists on talking to his father -- which is probably part of why Zhao Xinci thinks they can join forces as father and son...
Oh, yeah, good points all! And again you can see that in a more charitable way (he's trying to connect with the boy he watched grow up for 20 years, and has come to care for), or in a darker way (he's trying to manipulate him towards his own goals) - in this instance, I think it's a little bit of both, but it's definitely not great for Zhao Xinci. And agreed that Zhao Yunlan not being willing to accept what Zhang Shi is offering makes Zhao Xinci feel more confident in his own offer.
Also, from "All these years, your dad and I shared all the happiness and sadness." I feel like Zhang Shi thinks of it like a marriage, but from Zhao Xinci it's something very different and wrong that he's had to learn to live with and bear. You know?
Agreed for how Zhang Shi seems to look at it! I'm honestly not sure how Zhao Xinci sees it, only that he tells himself very firmly that he's not having a personal relationship with Zhang Shi. (He's lying to himself. Even if it's a very dysfunctional relationship, it's definitely personal.)
It's so interesting that he frames it as coming back. Like, that so much of the distance between them has been his own complete withdrawal.
Oh, I hadn't looked at it that way! I wonder if he thinks of it as stepping back until Zhao Yunlan "matures" (i.e. comes to agree with him, LOL).
And then Zhao Yunlan is given clear choice between his father and the SID, and he chooses the SID. I think some of Zhao Xinci's critical reaction comes from hurt (though he would probably never admit that to himself). And also trying to pressure Zhao Yunlan in order to protect him (he sounds relatively gentle there, by his standards?), but of course, Zhao Yunlan only ever hears the criticism.
Yep, he's definitely trying to protect Zhao Yunlan! He's just going about it in a way that is never going to work, trying to make Zhao Yunlan choose him that way.
ZYL: That's because false information misled the public's opinion.
me: So Ya Qing really did falsify the SID's data...?
From the fragments of conversations we hear, at the very least she made sure everything was framed in the worst possible way, even if factually correct. (Like next episode with Chu Shuzhi's background!)
Yes, but also how much Zhao Yunlan has changed? At the start of the show, Zhao Yunlan was "arrest them all", which isn't really all that different from Zhao Xinci's stance. Zhao Yunlan wasn't even close to his team, except for Da Qing. So I think Zhao Xinci is a bit out of date, a bit old-fashionedly expecting his son to respect his elders and fall into step, and a bit just wrong-headed when it comes to Zhao Yunlan generally.
I'm going to have to disagree here - I don't think there's any version of Zhao Yunlan, no matter how early and how bigoted, who'd be willing to throw his team under the bus to protect himself. Zhao Xinci isn't out of date; a similar offer wouldn't have worked on a younger, pre-Shen Wei Zhao Yunlan either, not ever. Do you really think it would have?
Also, as you say, "except for Da Qing" - the list of people Zhao Xinci has decided are great scapegoats includes Da Qing, and if he hasn't grasped how close these two are, he hasn't been looking for years.
From his POV, he's being pragmatic: just like when Zhang Shi took up residence, here Zhao Xinci is going "this is the situation we're faced with; how do we deal with it?"
Yes, but "I'll protect myself by ditching the people I'm responsible for" is something Zhao Xinci might do; for Zhao Yunlan, it goes against the very foundation of who he is. He might be willing to make that kind of bargain if it was for someone else's sake, but never for himself.
ZXC: To tell you the truth, I don't believe different species should be working together.
This might actually be a symptom of how coerced and unwilling he was to work with Zhang Shi? He's making the best of it, but he doesn't think it's right? Idk.
I don't know how that works so - the working together is what he seems to believe makes his compromise (sacrifice) with Zhang Shi worth it in the end. Either way he's being very hypocritical.
I'm not sure about this? I don't know if Zhao Xinci would have made his offer if Zhao Yunlan hadn't refused to side with Zhang Shi. Maybe he would have tried to find another way out of the mess, eg, by twisting Gao Jingfeng's arm, since Zhao Xinci outranks him?
I think he would have, because everything else aside he does want to protect his son, and from his perspective, the SID can't keep going like this, so trying to make Zhao Yunlan leave it behind makes sense. I think Zhao Yunlan rejecting Zhang Shi's offer only makes him feel more confident that it's going to work.
Firstly, it's ironic that Chu Shuzhi is accusing Zhao Yunlan of the very thing that stopped Zhao Yunlan from throwing him under the bus. But secondly, it really highlights that this whole episode is wrestling with Zhao Yunlan's personality, and what is the right way for him to be. It's like all his internal frustration and doubt is being externalised and challenged. You know?
Oooh, yes, all of that!!!!!
Oh, and now Ye Zun wants the Hallows... Shoulda kept hold of the Brush after all, then. ;-p
LOL, right? :D
I've written lots about the Zhu Hong scene before.
Oh, thank you for the link! I knew you'd talked about it before, but couldn't find where.
I think a ton of Zhao Yunlan's jerkishness here is down to his being upset and rattled by the previous scene, so I'm fully prepared to cut him slack on that score.
Oh, 100%! I don't blame him for it, mostly - he's not in a good place himself, and he has a lot to deal with. I just wanted to make it clear what situation Zhu Hong finds herself in, because she isn't in a great place either.
And he spends the whole time trying soooo hard to let her down easy, and she just won't give him an out.
Haha, yeah, she's not backing off - but a lot of her pushiness here is because he's triyng so hard to push her away, and (as she says later) won't even let her be a team member, never mind anything else. She doesn't deserve the blame for the entire thing.
Zhu Hong says, "Lao Zhao, this time it's different than before. Don't take on everything!" She's trying to be his Kunlun ("You still have me!"), but he won't let her in. (Also interesting that she thinks his family connections might be protecting him; she's right, of course.)
Excellent observations both, and I love the Kunlun parallel, thank you for pointing it out!
Yeah, otoh, I think he's dying inside and in enormous amounts of pain, and really not capable of having a serious conversation at this point.
Yeah, but she deserves better than this from him, and I'm glad she eventually gets it.
Aside: does Minister Gao not understand that the SID didn't release the info themselves? He seems so mad at them.
I think he probably knows that, but at this point he's at "how dare you be seen to exist", and his solution is "I'll make you not exist, that'll make the entire thing moot" - which is of course nonsense, because the cat's out of the bag in a big way! He's not the greatest at this. *g*
He doesn't want to do anything to raise her expectations, but he has to reach other and try to save her.
Yes, this! When it comes to actual danger, he has to step in. Same with Ya Qing's attack; he doesn't hesitate to put his arm around her then.
(Wow, I feel like ZYL's clothing hasn't changed that much, but his whole vibe is different by ep 1!)
I feel like it's a great way to show him being younger than we've seen him?
In terms of parallels, we have Zhao Yunlan trapped in this dream and Shen Wei trapped at the pillar, too.
Oooh, very good!
me: Because you haven't let her understand you.
THIS!!!!!!!!
He's felt responsible for them, but not accepted how much they feel responsible for him too (because his self-worth issues number in the million, so of course he doesn't think he matters). It's not until here, in ep 31, that he can express himself, and then only because Zhu Hong needs him to in the dream.
YES THIS! All of this! ♥ ♥ ♥
It's a big turning point for him, I think -- accepting and expressing his feelings for his team. It's like the last important jigsaw puzzle piece on his way to becoming Kunlun, the man who could arrive in the young Envoy's life -- and young Da Qing's life -- and show them so much open and genuine affection, without defences or game-playing or kneejerk self-deprecation.
Ooh, I love that way of looking at it. :D
I love the way they they flinch apart after they wake up, as soon as Xiao-Guo speaks up! They look so incredibly awkward, awww. :D
Oh, is he talking to his own people, there? I thought he was talking to someone at the SID (but I didn't know who).
I thought he was, yeah - whatever department they have that does censorship-adjacent things.
I made a note: "Why does CSZ carry around a vial of liquor, lol." But actually, maybe he prepared it overnight for this eventuality. I was wondering if it was connected with the doll in some way, too...
Yes, that's an excellent idea! Maybe he was planning to use it himself.
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I would guess it started off that there were a few weird cases, and since Zhao Xinci and Gao Jingfeng dealt with them competently, it became the pattern to send "weird stuff" their way. As the two of them discovered there was more going on (Dixingren), probably only their direct chain of command and some higher up bureaucrats also knew the details. Eventually it escalated to the point where the SID was posited as a way to keep it all under wraps, because it's easier to hide a separate department than a subunit in the regular police force? Idk.
> > Ugh, this is the bit where he really crosses the line into coercive, and it makes me squirm so much.
> It absolutely is coercive! We don't even know if he's telling the truth, considering he does eventually leave Zhao Xinci, at the end of the drama, without anything happening to Zhao Xinci as far as we know. And I do wonder what would have happened (or did happen) if a host insisted he find a reasonably safe way to remove himself.
Zhang Shi would take control after all, maybe permanently, and/or the host would go mad? Maybe that was what happened to Zhang Shi's previous host, and that's why he's pulling out all the stops to convince Zhao Xinci to agree...
Yeah, it's not really "who could he have turned to", but "who would he have been willing to turn to".
I think it's both. This is pre-SID -- we know there are formal diplomatic relations with Dixing at this point, but Zhao Xinci might not be aware of them, and with his prejudices, he doesn't have much reason to trust them. And given the climate in which he's working, if he rocked up to his supervising officer and confessed he had a Dixingren in his head (assuming Zhang Shi would let him do that), Zhao Xinci might find himself summarily incarcerated or deported to Dixing himself.
Even if it's not that extreme, I think it's fair for Zhao Xinci to feel trapped, like there's no way out. So he refuses to let himself be a victim and asserts himself as much as he can.
(Come to think of it, Zhang Shi's "I won't control you or take you over" is very different from "I can't"; there's a heavily implied danger there, too.)
I'm honestly not sure how Zhao Xinci sees it, only that he tells himself very firmly that he's not having a personal relationship with Zhang Shi. (He's lying to himself. Even if it's a very dysfunctional relationship, it's definitely personal.)
Sometimes I think of it like a marriage of convenience, but a lot of the time it feels like, idk, if Zhao Xinci has done military service at any point in his life, this is like being assigned a very intense undercover mission with this other (alien) soldier. Zero privacy, always on the clock. (Only in some ways, he's positioning himself as commanding officer who's doing the assigning, but only because the alternative is worse.) Of course over time that inevitably becomes a personal relationship too, but there's always the out of "this asshole was assigned to me; I didn't choose him" emotional distance. You know?
> > It's so interesting that he frames it as coming back. Like, that so much of the distance between them has been his own complete withdrawal.
> Oh, I hadn't looked at it that way! I wonder if he thinks of it as stepping back until Zhao Yunlan "matures" (i.e. comes to agree with him, LOL).
I thought he'd stepped back to hide himself and protect his family. It feels like one of those tragic superhero origin stories where they get powers and can use them to do good in the world, but have to leave behind the things that matter most to them.
I'm going to have to disagree here - I don't think there's any version of Zhao Yunlan, no matter how early and how bigoted, who'd be willing to throw his team under the bus to protect himself. Zhao Xinci isn't out of date; a similar offer wouldn't have worked on a younger, pre-Shen Wei Zhao Yunlan either, not ever. Do you really think it would have?
No, you're right. I meant more that it might have seemed then that some of their values were better aligned, and Zhao Xinci might have wrongly extrapolated the rest.
But on the subject of Zhao Xinci not understanding Zhao Yunlan, it occurred to me this morning: how could he know him? The moment they're in the same room, Zhao Yunlan reverts to an angry 12 year old. All he shows his father is fury and defiance (and he's pretty good at keeping even people he likes at a distance, cf Zhu Hong; we know and like Zhao Yunlan because we see the heart behind the performance, particularly when he's hanging out with Da Qing, but very few people get to see that). So Zhao Xinci must know that there's more to his son than just a ragebomb, because Zhao Yunlan is competently running the SID, but he can't send spies without setting tongues wagging, and he doesn't actually firsthand know much more than that. And the blame for that isn't entirely one-sided. They make each other worse. /o\
(My other thought this morning was about the dog-finding lesson -- whether Zhao Xinci was actually shouting at himself there, regarding Shen Xi's kidnapping. I wonder how long she was missing, and how badly the search went. Which is completely absolutely no excuse for taking it out on his kid, of course, but could be an explanation for how emotional he gets?)
I don't know how that works so - the working together is what he seems to believe makes his compromise (sacrifice) with Zhang Shi worth it in the end. Either way he's being very hypocritical.
It definitely and reasonably looks hypocritical to Zhao Yunlan, anyway.
Haha, yeah, she's not backing off - but a lot of her pushiness here is because he's triyng so hard to push her away
Yeah, and I think his pushing is ambiguous: she can't tell for absolute certain if he's doing it because he actually doesn't want her, or he's only doing it to protect her. The more he talks himself down and seems concerned about her feelings, the more ambiguous it gets. So she's going, "I don't want you to protect me, especially if the price is you pushing me away." And then he finds a different angle to push from.
Yeah, but she deserves better than this from him, and I'm glad she eventually gets it.
Yes, absolutely, definitely. She (and their relationship) couldn't heal and go forward if she didn't.
I feel like it's a great way to show him being younger than we've seen him?
Yes, absolutely. Zhu Hong, too.
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All of this makes sense! I just wonder how the two sides - the bureaucrats who maintained diplomatic relations with Dixing, and the ground-level police officers who at first didn't know there was such a thing as Dixing - ended up connecting.
Zhang Shi would take control after all, maybe permanently, and/or the host would go mad? Maybe that was what happened to Zhang Shi's previous host, and that's why he's pulling out all the stops to convince Zhao Xinci to agree...
Ouch! But yeah, I could see that.
Yeah, it's not really "who could he have turned to", but "who would he have been willing to turn to".
we know there are formal diplomatic relations with Dixing at this point, but Zhao Xinci might not be aware of them, and with his prejudices, he doesn't have much reason to trust them
Yeah, and he may well be right in distrusting his superiors on that front - I definitely don't hold it against him that he didn't! - but for me that falls under "not willing to turn to", and I would love to know his actual reasoning and his relationship with his superiors at the time. (If only because it would be, well, interesting if it ended up mirroring Zhao Yunlan's relationship with his superiors, of whom Zhao Xinci is one!)
this is like being assigned a very intense undercover mission with this other (alien) soldier
Yeah, that works! And as you say, it inevitably does become personal, even if there's also an unbridgeable distance at the same time.
I thought he'd stepped back to hide himself and protect his family. It feels like one of those tragic superhero origin stories where they get powers and can use them to do good in the world, but have to leave behind the things that matter most to them.
I think that's definitely part of it, from Zhao Xinci's perspective! He's absolutely intentionally keeping Zhang Shi away from his family as much as he can. But I also think he expected Zhao Yunlan to at some point "mature" and become more like him, at which point Zhao Yunlan's childish misbehaviour (from Zhao Xinci's POV) would cease and they'd be able to work together properly. Zhao Xinci got promoted out of the SID eventually; I wonder if he expected Zhao Yunlan to take the same career path. Given their overlap in careers, it's not an unreasonable thought!
But on the subject of Zhao Xinci not understanding Zhao Yunlan, it occurred to me this morning: how could he know him?
Idk, I don't think he's changed that much since he was a child. Like that hospital conversation with kid!Zhao Yunlan about minority vs. majority, and punishing wrong-doers. And I don't think it takes much to realise Zhao Yunlan isn't the sort of person who'd protect himself at the expense of others. But I don't disagree that Zhao Yunlan doesn't exactly show his father much of himself nowadays, yeah!
As for Zhu Hong, she doesn't think she really means anything to him because he won't let himself show it, but would she believe he'd ditch his team members to protect himself? I can't see it.
(As an aside, I just realised that in this episode Zhao Xinci says, "I've always said nothing in this world is absolute good or evil. As long it benefits the people, I don't think my compromises are wrong", and in episode 39 in the above-mentioned hospital scene he says, "In this world, there's no absolute right or wrong. But when a minority group harms the interests of the majority for their own benefit, they must be punished for their actions." So he has "always" said that! :D)
(My other thought this morning was about the dog-finding lesson -- whether Zhao Xinci was actually shouting at himself there, regarding Shen Xi's kidnapping. I wonder how long she was missing, and how badly the search went. Which is completely absolutely no excuse for taking it out on his kid, of course, but could be an explanation for how emotional he gets?)
Oh! That's an interesting thought, and I can totally believe it, yeah. As you say, no excuse for his behaviour towards his kid, but as an explanation for his own frame of mind, it makes a lot of sense!
Yeah, and I think his pushing is ambiguous: she can't tell for absolute certain if he's doing it because he actually doesn't want her, or he's only doing it to protect her.
Or whether he's protecting her because he wants to, or only out of duty, to fulfil his promise to her uncle! It's all a great big mess, and honesty is the only way out of it in the end.
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*nodnod*
I'm just not sure it's hypocritical to go, ot1h, I'm making the best I can of this terrible assignment; I refuse to be victimised by it, and otoh, I don't think anyone else should have to go through any version of what I'm going through, or have to deal with the kind of people who would do this to me.
Logical fallacies and prejudice? Absolutely! But not de facto hypocritical, imo.
But I also think he expected Zhao Yunlan to at some point "mature" and become more like him, at which point Zhao Yunlan's childish misbehaviour (from Zhao Xinci's POV) would cease and they'd be able to work together properly.
Well, maybe grow out of being a defiant ragebomb, yeah. I mean, it takes some serious grudgework to stick with that for more than half your life. ;-p And Zhao Xinci works with Guo Ying with no problem: he doesn't necessarily need Zhao Yunlan to become super hardline... right up until circumstances are such that it looks to Zhao Xinci like a choice between Zhao Yunlan and the rest of the SID, and then there's no way for them to meet in the middle.
Idk, I don't think he's changed that much since he was a child. Like that hospital conversation with kid!Zhao Yunlan about minority vs. majority, and punishing wrong-doers.
Idk, kids say a lot of stuff... I think it's not unreasonable to only join those dots in retrospect.
As for Zhu Hong, she doesn't think she really means anything to him because he won't let himself show it, but would she believe he'd ditch his team members to protect himself? I can't see it.
Of course not, but she works with him on a daily basis. She knows him orders of magnitudes better than Zhao Xinci does.
As an aside, I just realised that in this episode Zhao Xinci says, "I've always said nothing in this world is absolute good or evil. As long it benefits the people, I don't think my compromises are wrong", and in episode 39 in the above-mentioned hospital scene he says, "In this world, there's no absolute right or wrong. But when a minority group harms the interests of the majority for their own benefit, they must be punished for their actions." So he has "always" said that! :D
Yes, and that hospital scene was post Zhang Shi, going by Zhao Xinci's case notebook, so it's meaningfully relevant, too!
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Idk, I do think it's very hypocritical to go, "I'm doing this because there are reasons that make it my best choice under the circumstances" and not extend that to other people, who are judged rigidly regardless of what their circumstances or reasons might be.
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And I'd argue that he's not judging other people for doing it when it's their best choice; it's just that here he thinks it isn't the best choice anymore.
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Let's agree to disagree?
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ETA: But if any other Zhao Xinci fans want to jump in and discuss with me, please do!
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He is such a terrible parent, even when he’s actively trying to reconcile! Completely agree with your analysis on Zhao Xinci not knowing his son.
His plan to pin it all on the non-humans also shows just how little regard he has for the SID members he himself worked with in the past.
She changes herself so much for his sake, even if she does end up liking the person she becomes at the SID.
It’s interesting that Zhu Hong tries to be more attractive to Zhao Yunlan by acting human and feminine, while the person he actually falls for is neither of those things. There’s probably some kind of point being made that I can’t put my finger on right now.
Shen Wei only makes a brief appearance
:(
chained to the pillar
:)
Also love Lao-Chu stopping the Inspectorate men and telling them to scram!
Go Lao-Chu! ❤
I actually feel it works better if he pulls his gun right away. What do you think? Any preference?
I agree! It makes for a more dramatic moment, which is probably why it was like that for the cliffhanger.
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Right?????
His plan to pin it all on the non-humans also shows just how little regard he has for the SID members he himself worked with in the past.
Oh, yes, excellent point! And he's worked with Da Qing for years, too.
It’s interesting that Zhu Hong tries to be more attractive to Zhao Yunlan by acting human and feminine, while the person he actually falls for is neither of those things. There’s probably some kind of point being made that I can’t put my finger on right now.
Yes, I love that part! Shen Wei is nothing like what she tried to make herself over into.
(I have a bit about that in my Zhu Hong Envoy reveal double drabble: "All this time Zhu Hong thought that if she only acted more human, more normal, she could be the kind of person Lao-Zhao likes. Now, looking at the two of them, she can't help but wonder – if she'd been more herself, more unapologetically Yashou, would she have had a chance?")
It makes for a more dramatic moment, which is probably why it was like that for the cliffhanger.
Yes, agreed! And for once, it's a really excellent cliffhanger. :D
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Thanks for sharing; that’s an interesting question to raise.
I certainly think she’s sabotaging herself – Zhao Yunlan doesn’t want anyone to change for him, nor would he fall for a fake façade.
I've been thinking how the high-heeled shoe thing only highlights the issue: She is latching onto a comment he made, and subsequently puts in a lot of effort, but it’s ultimately based on a superficial detail. Zhu Hong knows nothing about what he’s actually looking for in a long-term partner (not that he necessary knows himself, or has reason to tell her).
But it’s still questionable how much of a difference it actually makes: My personal interpretation is that he’s just not interested.
And once Shen Wei enters the scene, all bets are off anyway ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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Yes! And also, when faced with his bigotry she tried to change herself, rather than challenging him to change - I think that's both unappealing to him and a horrible realisation for herself once she's watched him change anyway.
And I completely agree that it wouldn't have changed that he's not interested in her romantically, and wouldn't have been no matter what she did, but I think she must be wondering about that nevertheless. (It would definitely have changed their relationship in other ways!)