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sid_guardian2023-05-06 01:49 pm
china_shop) wrote in sid_guardian2023-05-06 01:49 pm
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GUARDIAN REWATCH – Episode 17
Beginning of episode: Zhu Jiu convinces Bao Laosan to destroy the SID.
Ending of episode: Chu Shuzhi meets Ye Huo in the underground fight club.
Important scenes/developments:
- Bao Laosan attacks the SID, after remembering Zhao Xinci shooting at him and killing his wife.
- Shen Wei looks for Zhao Yunlan in Dixing, and the bar patrons are rude and disrespectful.
- The SID team arrive and take on Bao Laosan. Zhao Xinci comes from inside the SID and pulls his gun. Bao Laosan is shot.
- In Dixing, Wu Tian'en tells Zhao Yunlan about an information merchant.
- Separately, Shen Wei scares the crap out of An Bai and his friends.
- Ya Qing is disgusted by Zhu Jiu's betrayal of Bao Laosan, but Zhu Jiu says his boss would do the same.
- We get the first half of Zhu Jiu's backstory, and confirmation that Creepy Pillar Guy is his boss.
- Zhao Yunlan feels sick from over-exposure to dark energy, and starts to formulate a plan to catch Zhu Jiu.
- The SID is subdued. Zhao Xinci says they did well. Da Qing privately asks Zhao Xinci if he really killed Bao Laosan.
- A masked Ding Dun offers Zhao Yunlan relationship advice and then stabs him in the arm.
- Shen Wei arrives in the nick of time, fights Ding Dun, rescues some smouldering pages of the Register, and saves Zhao Yunlan's life.
- Zhao Yunlan dreams about meeting his mother at the sky pillar, then wakes up in the SID.
- Zhao Xinci visits Shen Xi's grave, argues with Zhang Shi, and remembers his and Shen Xi's tragic backstory.
- Zhao Yunlan takes Shen Wei to his mother's grave and reacts strongly to seeing Zhao Xinci's flowers there.
- The Regent and the Deacon talk about the Envoy and Ding Dun.
- An Bai and friends are arrested and sentenced to execution.
- Zhao Yunlan finds The Ancient Mysteries book, left in the SID library by Zhang Shi, and takes it home for bedtime reading.
- Cong Bo brings intel about the underground fight club.
- The chancellor tries to make Shen Wei choose between teaching and working for the SID, but Jiajia intervenes.
- Shen Wei and Zhao Yunlan sit in Zhao Yunlan's office and gossip about Lao Chu and Xiao Guo.
- Chu Shuzhi and Guo Changcheng investigate the underground fight club and meet Ye Huo.
Thoughts and screencaps
This episode feels rather bitsy compared to episode 16, but there's still a pervasive theme of mistaking, revealing, establishing and reaffirming roles and relationships:
- Zhao Xinci puts up a legalistic front so as not to admit an accident, but the truth is revealed in flashback. (I wonder what he says in the case report.)
- When Zhao Xinci says to the SID, "Please tell Zhao Yunlan once he's back to not be lazy and do crazy things." -- that seems more parental than official, right? A crack in his veneer of bureaucratic authority.
- Shen Wei arrives in the Dixing bar in mufti. The whole bar starts shouting at him, asking what his relationship is with Zhao Yunlan. Instead of answering, Shen Wei reveals his Envoy identity by assuming his robes. When they don't believe him and pelt him with bar snacks, he uses his power to put out the lights. (Interesting that he doesn't summon his usual calling card, the dao; I think he's trying to assert himself and de-escalate at the same time?)
- Da Qing steps up into his deputy leadership role during Bao Laosan's assault, ably telling the team what to do.
- Shen Wei finds An Bai and friends in the streets of Dixing and uses his role and blade as a death threat to gain information about Zhao Yunlan's whereabouts.
- Ya Qing once again draws a line between her own agenda and Zhu Jiu/Ye Zun's, and decries the others' methods and ethics. Meanwhile, Zhu Jiu reaffirms his loyalty to Ye Zun.
- Flashback: Zhu Jiu is bullied for his lack of powers, alienating him from his role as palace guard; then Ye Zun uses mind control to alienate him from his self-defining admiration of the Envoy.
- As part of the above, the creepy voice in the pillar that toyed with Zhao Yunlan is revealed to be the boss behind Zhu Jiu.
- The information merchant starts out masked and anonymous, but is shown to be Ding Dun, thought to be dead, and seemingly with a personal grudge against Zhao Yunlan (though he says, "For the Hallows, I will kill you!").
- He offers Zhao Yunlan advice about marriage and family, which Zhao Yunlan refuses, claiming he's not suited for either of those roles.
- (In Zhao Yunlan's dream, I'm never sure if Shen Xi is herself, or if she's Zhao Yunlan's projection, or if it's Ye Zun using/twisting her form.)
- At Shen Xi's grave, Zhao Xinci and Zhang Shi argue, differentiating their respective positions and personalities.
- Flashback: Zhao Xinci is torn between his role as SID chief and his role of husband and father, and prioritises the former, twice over -- during the fight, and during the Shen Xi hostage standoff.
- Shen Wei says he and his role are misunderstood: "Do you know that there are some Dixingren now who see me as a betrayer. They think that helping you find the Hallows means I stand by your side. But they don't know that I'm doing all this to prevent another war from erupting."
- An Bai's friend is surprised that the old man from the street is the Regent of Dixing. (Huh.)
- We see a nominal separation of power, when the Regent applies to the Dijun for approval to sentence An Bai & co. We also see the Dijun is basically a puppet without a voice; he only communicates with a bell.
- Zhao Yunlan wrongly assumes Sang Zan is bad at his job.
- Zhao Yunlan's attention is caught by a mention of Kunlun, unbeknownst to him his own alter ego.
- Zhao Yunlan treats Cong Bo rudely, asserting his own authority and putting Cong Bo in his place.
- Cong Bo says he dressed up to go undercover in the underground fight club (which, why? presumably he could have more safely and easily gone in as himself?).
- The chancellor tries to force Shen Wei to choose between his roles: the university or the SID.
- Jiajia reveals she and the chancellor are secretly granddaughter and grandfather (and tells Shen Wei, regarding his choice, "Why not both?").
- Zhao Yunlan questions the nature of the relationship between Chu Shuzhi and Guo Changcheng.
- People at the fight club assess Guo Changcheng and Chu Shuzhi purely on their manner and appearance, and Ye Huo dismisses Changcheng as "trash".
Discussion starters:
- What's your favourite line of dialogue? Favourite scene? Was there anything you'd forgotten?
- What is Shen Wei's worst moment this episode? Hearing the drunk in the bar say he killed Zhao Yunlan? Having his people throw food and jeer? Finding Zhao Yunlan half-dead in the street? Having the chancellor tell him to choose between teaching and consulting at the SID, and knowing he has to choose the SID? Something else?
- Does anyone pay Wu Tian'en back the 500 yuan? Is it Dixing currency?
- And why does Ding Dun kill Zhao Yunlan? It seems like a personal grudge, but they never met. Is he acting on Ye Zun's behalf? And why did he burn the Register? Why right then? Any thoughts?
- Is there any payoff from Shen Wei finding the smoking remains of the Dijun's Register?
- What exactly happened with Bao Laosan's death? Why does Zhang Shi blame Zhao Xinci? Do you think Zhao Xinci has changed at all since the flashback where Bao Laosan's wife died?
- Why on earth would Zhao Yunlan send Guo Changcheng on his own to investigate an underground fight club? I mean, sure, Lao Chu will inevitably get in someone's face and end up fighting. But Guo Changcheng on his own doesn't seem like a better option!
Let’s talk about episode 17!
Come and talk about this episode – anything from favourite scenes or lines of dialogue to notes/questions about continuity or translation, most gorgeous (or angsty) smile, or anything else that strikes your fancy! And share links to your own and/or others’ episode-related meta, picspams, and fanworks, new or old!
Links to episode 17 fanworks and meta go here!
- any other episode reactions or related meta
- fanworks, picspams, squee, etc, relating to episode 17 generally or to specific scenes, characters, or events in this episode
Link to your own works and/or others'. Help us build as comprehensive a collection of links as possible!Re: Links to episode 17 fanworks and meta go here!
Episode by Episode: 17 by
the Dixing bar by
Jiajia prevents her grandfather's ultimatum to Shen Wei by
Draft pre-canon timeline of Zhao Xinci-related flashbacks by me
Fanworks
ZYL & ZXC vexercise by
Re: Links to episode 17 fanworks and meta go here!
Under Your Skin (Shen Wei/Zhao Yunlan, 9716 words) [Teen And Up]
Content Tags: Alternate Universe - Canon Divergence, Episode Related, episode 17, Hurt/Comfort, Zhao Yunlan whump, Black Energy Critters, Parasites, Medicinal Cutting, Dixing Worldbuilding, First Kiss
Summary: Shen Wei flinches back, stares in horror. The black energy in his hand dies, and Zhao Yunlan falls, limp as a rag doll, silent again. His attempted healing has only hurt Zhao Yunlan more.
And another story that has an alternate version of the return from Dixing from Chu Shuzhi's POV:
The Lord Envoy's Man (Chu Shuzhi & Shen Wei, Shen Wei/Zhao Yunlan, Shen Wei & SID, 4138 words) [Teen And Up]
Content Tags: Alternate Universe - Canon Divergence, Episode Related, episode 15, episode 17, Loyalty, Shen Wei's secrets, Identity Reveal, Envoy reveal
Summary: The thought hit Chu Shuzhi like a black energy-reinforced punch. Could Shen Wei be the Lord Envoy's man? Had he been sent, like Chu Shuzhi, to interact with the SID more closely than the Black-Cloaked Envoy himself could or would?
Chu Shuzhi and Shen Wei, before and after the trip to Dixing to look for the Dijun Register.
(Will be back with a proper comment later!)
no subject
Also great screenshot of Zhao Yunlan on the pole.
Was there anything you'd forgotten?
I frequently forget that the drama kills off Zhao Yunlan’s mom and get offended anew every time I am reminded XD
More seriously, I forgot just how callous Zhao Xinci is about taking a life; and how little I like him in this episode as a result.
Zhao Xinci killed someone when he didn’t mean to and this does nothing to make him more cautious in the future. Like, he never thinks maybe I shouldn’t have pulled a weapon, has no issues killing Bao this time; his only regret is killing the wrong person, and even then it seems to only mildly bother him.
no subject
It's amazing! :D :D :D And I hope all the bar patrons have some sleepless nights about how disrespectful they were! ;-p
Also great screenshot of Zhao Yunlan on the pole.
Hee! Thanks -- I couldn't resist.
More seriously, I forgot just how callous Zhao Xinci is about taking a life
Yeah. I have to be careful, because I have a soft spot for Zhao Xinci despite his very real terribleness, and I can easily slip into justifying his behaviour. He does shrug it off disturbingly easily, agreed! I think it's interesting to compare Bao Laosan's death to Ding Dun's, though. We don't see a lot of remorse from Shen Wei, either. It feels different because we get Bao Laosan's POV, and we also see how disturbed the rest of the SID are by it. And of course, we know how much Shen Wei cares about Zhao Yunlan, so his behaviour is more understandable. But BLS was holding the most helpless member of the SID by the throat when Zhao Xinci arrived on the scene and pulled the gun, just like Ding Dun was attacking Zhao Yunlan when Shen Wei strode in and threw the first energy bolt... Otoh, BLS was telling Lao Li, "I don't want to hurt you!" so...
Like, he never thinks maybe I shouldn’t have pulled a weapon
It's his go-to move in hostage situations, isn't it? Apparently he learned nothing from the Shen Xi disaster. /o\ But then, I don't think he has the same de-escalation skills (or even concept of de-escalation) that Zhao Yunlan has. He seems to expect desperate people to immediately, unconditionally surrender. (In the Shen Wei hostage flashback, all the other cops have their guns out and aimed, too, but of course their guns aren't The Gun.)
his only regret is killing the wrong person, and even then it seems to only mildly bother him.
Wait, do you mean in the flashback, or in present day?
no subject
That’s the best thing, isn’t it? To have many different facets to a character. Zhao Xinci is someone I feel differently about in basically every episode he’s in.
Similarly, I also like seeing Shen Wei’s more ruthless side on display. There’s a reason people are terrified of HPS!
That’s a good observation about the difference in POV and in-universe reactions shaping our perception as an audience.
Wait, do you mean in the flashback, or in present day?
Sort of both?
I meant that in the flashback where he kills Bao’s wife, we get a reaction of him looking shocked briefly. But he clearly doesn’t draw any lessons from that – it cuts to him in the present day, his gun out, having learned nothing.
And as you said, this means he also learned nothing from Shen Xi’s death.
no subject
Yesss! He's such a mess, and so crusty and impatient on top of that. (Tbf, I might be like that myself, if I had someone else living in my head 24/7! Introvert hell!)
There’s a reason people are terrified of HPS!
Yes, absolutely. ♥
I meant that in the flashback where he kills Bao’s wife, we get a reaction of him looking shocked briefly. But he clearly doesn’t draw any lessons from that – it cuts to him in the present day, his gun out, having learned nothing.
Oh right. Yeah, and he also pulls a gun when Sha Ya's friend is held hostage, though he does surrender it when the hostage-taker demands he do so... and then the hostage taker uses it to shoot Sha Ya's other friend, so.
I think in the flashback, he's super shocked by Bao's wife throwing herself in front of the bullet, but he's just really terrible at having and expressing emotions, so he kind of shuts it away afterwards and intellectualises/justified everything. Possibly he doesn't want to deal with Zhang Shi seeing his emotions? Or possibly he was always like that.
And it seems like he was taught to draw his weapon as part of his cop training (since all the other cops do it, too), and he never learned any other strategies. But it's such a marked contrast to Zhao Yunlan lounging on a rock and talking to Zhang Danni to try to get Da Qing back (at the end of ep 4), or saying, "Take me instead," when Zhao Xinci is kidnapped later on. :-/
no subject
Yes! They really couldn't be more different.
no subject
Right? It's delightful! :D
Like, he never thinks maybe I shouldn’t have pulled a weapon, has no issues killing Bao this time; his only regret is killing the wrong person
Yeah, with Bao Laosan in the flashback I can't even blame him for the gun - he only pulls it once Bao Laosan is already attacking him - but Zhao Xinci is kind of disturbingly easy with guns. He even points one at Guo Changcheng in earnest once. :(
no subject
Interesting that the patrons' first assumption is that he's a fake. Are there a lot of fake Envoys around? Anyway, once they believe who he is, they're frightened and respectful. I wonder how many of these people are in the crowd watching Ye Zun burn the treaty later on, and whether they would have questioned his credentials if they hadn't been wrong this time. Otoh, the bartender is in both scenes, and he recognises the fake.
Btw, I watched the flashback in slo-mo, and in case anyone else is wondering, it's ZXC's finger on the trigger, but BLS who pushes the finger to shoot the gun. Ugh, that must have felt awful!
ZYL: I... am a big asshole from the day I was born, so cold and heartless. I don't want marriage. 我这个人天生就是个大混蛋 冷血无情 不求姻缘
DD: Then, you want to ask about your family? 那就是问家庭了
ZYL: (definite reaction, but then) I don't even have a marriage, so why talk about a family? 我这连姻缘都没有 还谈什么家庭啊
I think "I'm too much of an asshole for relationships/marriage" is ZYL's go-to answer whenever anyone asks. He uses it at Zhu Hong later on, too, and it's not far from what he tells Shen Wei in the taxi, when Shen Wei asks about Zhu Hong. But I don't think he's being particularly sincere.
I wonder about Lin Jing's "It must be hard for a weak scholar like him. He went to a place like that but wasn't scared to death." 还真是难为他这个文弱的知识分子去到那种地方 还没被吓死 I mean, a) what does Lin Jing know about "a place like that"? ;-p and b) was it the "scared to death" that sent Zhao Yunlan running, without a word, to find Shen Wei and reassure him he's okay? Or would he have done that regardless?
This always struck me as an all-about-me non sequitur and the opposite of comforting, because I was reading the scene as being about Zhao Yunlan & Shen Xi. But it makes a lot more sense if what Shen Wei is reacting to is Zhao Yunlan's agitation at this evidence of his father's recent presence, as per this meta by
Criminal justice in Dixing. /o\ The Dijun has no voice, just a bell. /o\
ZYL definitely picks up on The Ancient Mysteries not belonging. (Sang Zan says it wasn't in the regular collection.) And the misunderstanding about whether or not ZXC is an outsider is completely understandable.
(Also, the insult re Cong Bo disguised as a woman smacks me in the face every time. /o\)
Love that it starts with the chancellor saying, "You seem happy," and then he immediately proceeds to try to break Shen Wei's heart. *stabbity* Jiajia, otoh, is insightful, delightful, and so kind and enthusiastic! *hearts her forever* The scene and the transition to Zhao Yunlan pointedly saying, "Hei-laoge," always makes me think of this comment by
ZYL: I know, right? When Xiao Guo had just joined the SID, Lao Chu in particular avoided and rejected him. But now, of all of us here, he's the one who looks after Xiao Guo most. (leans forward) Do you think Lao Chu dotes on his apprentice too much?
SW: [smiles, and thinks: I think it is a true partnership.]
Subtitler’s note: Chinese has 'brotherhood' which is what censors like to hear.
One reading of this scene could be ZYL sounding Shen Wei out about close m/m relationships, but I'm not sure that's it. His attitude is a little confusingly unsympathetic, though. (I'm going, was the hairstyle change not supposed to be significant?)
I wonder how much Shen Wei's smile/almost-laugh is thinking about how Kunlun, King of Doters, treated him -- in other words, ZYL is going to change his tune, and probably very soon. ;-p
no subject
Yeah, he's awful in this scene. I can't blame him for shooting when Bao Laosan is attacking him, but he's practically provoking Bao Laosan into lashing out. What do you expect when you're pushing this hard on someone who's already desperate?!
I wonder if this is pre- or post- the Shen Xi disaster. It feels post- to me -- it hits him so hard.
I'm not seeing anything that shows it hitting him hard? He's shocked for a moment; that's all we see.
Not sure which one is first, but either way, no matter which came first he seems to have learned nothing from it.
(Speaking of the timeline, I was wondering just for a moment whether Shen Xi's kidnapping and death might actually happen right after the argument at the SID, but they're wearing different clothes.)
Shen Wei at the bar! I wonder why he went there in plain clothes. Trying to keep a low profile? I will never not love his description of Zhao Yunlan: "Hello, have you seen someone with a mustache? He might have a lollipop in his mouth."
That is the BEST description of Zhao Yunlan! :D
And yeah, I think he was trying not to draw too much attention.
Interesting that the patrons' first assumption is that he's a fake. Are there a lot of fake Envoys around?
Haha, possibly! You know, given all the masks that people at the bar are wearing, maybe someone's turned up in a HPS mask before?
Or, well, the idea that some normal-looking person could actually be the Envoy - or the other way round, that the Envoy could be a normal person who walks around in normal clothes and looks for a guy at a bar, rather than a figure larger than life - is so completely out there to these people, it has to be an impostor ...
I wonder how many of these people are in the crowd watching Ye Zun burn the treaty later on, and whether they would have questioned his credentials if they hadn't been wrong this time. Otoh, the bartender is in both scenes, and he recognises the fake.
Oooh, that's a good question! Though I always wonder how many people are actually taken in by Ye Zun's impersonation vs. just going along because they're afraid of him.
Shen Wei says, "Where did he go?" Is he just refusing to believe the drunk guy killed him? A kind of "I will bend reality with my stubbornness"? Or ooh, does he know he's lying because of the same power that made him doubt Wang Zheng in the Hanga caves??
Like I said in my other comment, I always thought he could tell it was just drunken braggadocio (because it so obviously is), but that's a great thought about his powers! It can be both! :D
And what does the bartender whisper? Something about An Bai and co, presumably, since that's who Shen Wei finds.
I always wanted to know what he says, and why he feels the need to whisper it!
BLS continues undermining the SID building. This is so painful to watch. I love that building!
Yeah! Though I also note that this damage will mysteriously disappear with no explanation by the next time we see the street outside the SID. *g* (I wrote Shen Wei repairing it into a fic when I noticed!)
And then the shooting. Everyone looks so aghast! Zhao Xinci justifies himself with the letter of the law/treaty and seems unrepentant, but I think he's pretty shaken. He's just so good at covering -- I guess he's spent years hiding his real emotions from Zhang Shi... or maybe I'm giving him too much credit.
Everyone is horrified by what Zhao Xinci seems to have done, and Zhao Xinci immediately owns it rather than telling the truth. He'll call the case a "success" even when the end result was entirely unplanned and unintentional, and he'd rather be thought of as a killer of Dixingren than as someone who can be blindsided like that. :( :( :(
He doesn't seem shaken to me, tbh, but he is incredibly good at covering up any real reaction he has, pretending it was how he meant things to go all along.
Zhao Yunlan and Wu Tian'en zipping through the streets. If they just want to hide, they really should go to WTE's place and hang out there. ;-p
Damn, now I want to see Wu Tian'en's place!
Shen Wei -- I don't know if he intended summoning the dao to be a literal death threat, but An Bai and co definitely took it that way.
He does say "Otherwise ..." in a very threatening way! But whether he's threatening to kill them or - treating the dao as a symbol of his office - threatening to arrest them, I'm not sure. Either way, I think at this point he's aiming for maximum intimidation. What he actually would have done if they hadn't cooperated at this point, I don't know.
(Do you think he believes they're working for Ye Zun? In which case he may well think at this point that they're worse people than they are.)
And he's mind-controlling Zhu Jiu in the flashback, right? I wonder how deep that goes... How much of Zhu Jiu's psychopathy and hatred comes from Ye Zun?
We definitely see black energy from the pillar enter Zhu Jiu's head. I'm so fascinated by this, and its implications!
The whole "true voice of your heart" line seems to be connected so strongly to Ye Zun, tied into his ability to twist/manipulate/control people ... We see Ye Zun try that line on on Zhao Yunlan; then see him use successfully on Zhu Jiu in flashback, with him quoting it to Ya Qing in the present; and then hear again from Shen Xi in Zhao Yunlan's vision. I wonder if that is foreshadowing/a red herring about Ye Zun possibly mind-controlling Zhao Yunlan?
As for Zhu Jiu, it's so hard to tell since we don't know what exactly Ye Zun does to his mind, but I think his general attitudes (the ones Ya Qing is so disgusted by) are mostly his; Ye Zun just redirected him and turned him against the Envoy.
At any rate, this part of Zhu Jiu's flashback seems reliable to me, even if I'm not sure about the later one we'll get to see when he gets captured. Reminder to self: when that one comes up, I want to rewatch this one for comparison/context!
Aw, he does know! He listens to Shen Wei! He just doesn't really count the cost when it comes to his own well-being.
Right?????
And yeah, I love how quickly Zhao Yunlan catches on to Zhu Jiu's power being light-dependent, and that he immediately starts trying to work out how they can use that to trap him. :D
When Wu Tian'en knocks on Ding Dun's door, what does his reaction mean? Can he tell something's off?
I'm not sure either. He seems to look over his shoulder as if he's seeing something suspicious, and I have no idea what he's thinking. At first it seemed to me like he was looking at Zhao Yunlan, but that makes even less sense!
Though actually, BLS had Lao Li by the throat, and Chu Shuzhi had failed to catch him once. The building and the street were in ruins. There's no saying they actually could have captured him and held him securely. But what I think she's really asking is why isn't ZXC taking the outcome more seriously.
That! He's acting as if this were a good outcome rather than a tragedy. And I think she's also asking why he didn't even try. Yeah, it might not have worked - but she (and everyone else) is 100% certain that Zhao Yunlan would have gone about this differently, and might have changed the outcome.
Oh, I wonder if he's avoiding retorting that actually the Black-Robed Envoy is in Dixing with his son? (Or noting to himself that they clearly don't know that?) *g*
I think he's more likely to be musing about the differences between Zhao Yunlan and himself - a prelude to what he and Zhang Shi discuss at Shen Xi's grave later.
It's also very interesting that Zhao Xinci is using an ancient family photo as his lockscreen, his family frozen in time before Shen Xi died. I wonder if he even has more recent photos of his son.
Also, this makes me wonder so much about the bullets -- where do they come from? Does ZYL have to account for each one? etc.
I always wonder if the "used bullet" is just metaphorical here, since Zhao Yunlan never seems to have to reload the thing, and doesn't seem to worry about running out of ammo in YOHE at all.
And Da Qing following ZXC out, asking for the truth. Does "Looks like your eyes aren't good anymore." 看来你的眼神也不行了mean "Of course I wasn't trying to shoot him!"? LOL, it just makes ZXC sound like he's misunderstood, which is hardly fair on anyone when he's doing such a professional job of bottling up EVERYTHING.
When Da Qing goes after Zhao Xinci to demand the truth, it's very "come on, admit it, no matter how much you pretend you were in total control, that wasn't actually your doing". I guess Zhao Xinci is responding in kind with "are you pretending you don't already know?" Their dynamic is so intriguing! They do seem to understand each other to some degree. (I wonder how Zhao Xunlan feels about that ... certainly Da Qing doesn't share all of Zhao Yunlan's issues with his father.)
And yeah, so great that Da Qing actually goes after him! I love seeing Da Qing in a more active role. :D
And with this scene, everyone's stood up to Zhao Xinci except for Lin Jing and Wang Zheng, right?
Go, SID team! :D :D :D
I think "I'm too much of an asshole for relationships/marriage" is ZYL's go-to answer whenever anyone asks. He uses it at Zhu Hong later on, too, and it's not far from what he tells Shen Wei in the taxi, when Shen Wei asks about Zhu Hong. But I don't think he's being particularly sincere.
Yeah, agreed. It's part of his disreputable image - "I'm such a bastard, so cold-hearted, I don't have any genuine feelings" - but he's too self-aware to buy into his own propaganda. While at the same time finding it really hard to let go of that façade and the shield it provides him.
What on earth is the thing Ding Dun stabs Zhao Yunlan with? Whatever it is, it's clearly infused with dark energy/poison, if stabbing him in the arm is supposed to kill him. There's so much premeditation in all of this -- I'm confused all over again.
Going frame by frame and looking at it more closely, uh, yeah, WTF is that?! He attacks him with what seems to be a blade when he rushes him again afterwards, and I always thought the stabbing was also with that (I played with it in a fic once), but I was clearly wrong about that! It looks like some kind of injection gun?!
Why inject him with something if you're going to stab him with a knife afterwards?! What the hell the point of all of this is, I haven't the foggiest either. Some puzzle piece is missing here ...
I have questions about the burning of the Register, too: ZYL didn't notice a smouldering fire only a few metres away? Ding Dun was inside his house -- why is the fire in the street, untended? Someone might have come along and rescued the book. And why burn it then? Why burn it at all?
Yeah, it always feels like the smoking bowl pops up suddenly after Zhao Yunlan has been stabbed. We don't see the other side of the street before that - something is always blocking that angle - but surely someone would have noticed? I have no idea why Ding Dun is destroying the Dijun Register, either, or why he's waited until now if he meant to destroy it ... Again, missing pieces!
Back at the SID. Everyone's like, "Shen Wei dropped you off." (Why didn't he stick around? Because it would just have been yelling and "I told you so"? Or grabbing and desperate "thought you were dead" kissing?)
I always want to see that scene. Did Shen Wei carry an unconscious Zhao Yunlan into the SID and then just leave? The Envoy could have dropped him off more easily, but no, he did it as Professor Shen! And he didn't even stay long enough to let Zhao Yunlan wake up so he could ask him what happened ...
One possibility why Shen Wei didn't stay is that he only quickly went to Haixing to bring Zhao Yunlan back, and then went straight back to Dixing to investigate Ding Dun and the remnants of the Dijun Register.
I wonder about Lin Jing's "It must be hard for a weak scholar like him. He went to a place like that but wasn't scared to death." 还真是难为他这个文弱的知识分子去到那种地方 还没被吓死 I mean, a) what does Lin Jing know about "a place like that"? ;-p and b) was it the "scared to death" that sent Zhao Yunlan running, without a word, to find Shen Wei and reassure him he's okay? Or would he have done that regardless?
Ohhhh, is Zhao Yunlan storming off to find Shen Wei? I never understood why he just gets up and rushes out.
But also, what does he mean by "Yunlan's way"? Diplomacy and consorting with Dixingren? I mean, ZYL does get a lot more trigger-happy as the drama goes on... ijs.
Aiming for peaceful coexistence and cooperation rather than a strict segregation of Dixing and Haixing? Like that disagreement between young!Zhao Yunlan and Zhao Xinci in the hospital (the episode 39 flashback), where Zhao Yunlan insists he'll find a win-win solution?
But calling this a "more peaceful era" is so strange - Zhang Shi must know how much cases have ramped up recently; the peaceful era seems to be over! Or were things actually worse back in the day when the SID started out? Why?
Also, ugh at Zhao Xinci practically saying killing Dixingren is his mission (even if he probably doesn't mean it that way):
ZS: Do you still think killing can solve these problems?
ZXC: This is my mission and my destiny.
ZYL and SW at the graveyard. There's so much in this scene
I was hoping you'd talk about this scene! Totally agreed about
I'm not entirely sure what I think about Zhao Yunlan's reply, and how much of it is just him not wanting to engage with Shen Wei potentially defending Zhao Xinci. (That has to be painful! But it's so understandable from Shen Wei's POV.)
Shen Wei says, "Even though what happened has become clearer to me, there is nothing I can do about it now. In order to maintain stability in Dixing, I often need to act ignorant. But I can confirm that all these random cases are related to the four Hallows and Zhu Jiu's group." So... what has become clear? What did he work out and how? The connection between the Deacon and Ye Zun? The fact that it was the Regent who helped bring Ding Dun back to life? What?
I want to know what he did to work things out, too! Sounds like he did some investigating while he was off screen - so curious about what he actually did! I guess he's found proof that Ye Zun is pulling many people's strings ... somehow. Did he find anything in the Dixing archives? What did he conclude about An Bai and friends?
The Regent... brought Ding Dun back to life somehow?
Right???? How did I not remember this?!
Then An Bai & co are delivered by the palace guard, and the woman is surprised the Regent is the Regent, and now I'm confused all over again again. I guess he didn't set it up? Or he set it up incognito, and they didn't realise how powerful he is? Idk!
I wonder if the Deacon set it up on the Regent's (and Ye Zun's) behalf, not mentioning who would be with Zhao Yunlan because the Regent is good at dodging away, and no one expected Zhao Yunlan to just push him right into the middle of it all ...
[Once more exceeding the comment box, OMG! more to come]
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I guess, for me, any sign of emotion like that from Zhao Xinci implies a submerged iceberg of immediately suppressed (so as not to deal with Zhang Shi's opinions and judgements -- or his own) feelings. Maybe I'm reading too much into it.
Also, I wonder how much, in general, he is extra harsh and legalistic because he refuses to be a quisling, letting Zhang Shi use him to soften Haixing's stance against Dixingren. So he leans into his natural hardline tendencies partly in reaction. Really, he's got himself into (or Zhang Shi forced him into, and he accepted in the spirit of pragmatism) an untenable position, given who he is and everything that's happened. Getting out of the field was probably the best thing he could do for everyone.
Or, well, the idea that some normal-looking person could actually be the Envoy - or the other way round, that the Envoy could be a normal person who walks around in normal clothes and looks for a guy at a bar, rather than a figure larger than life - is so completely out there to these people, it has to be an impostor ...
Ha, yes, that sounds right. Good point!
I always wanted to know what he says, and why he feels the need to whisper it!
Whispering gives him plausible deniability re his snitching on his patrons. ;-p I think he must be telling Shen Wei that ZYL exeunted pursued by
bearsAn Bai and co, given that's who Shen Wei find and intimidates next?Though I also note that this damage will mysteriously disappear with no explanation by the next time we see the street outside the SID. *g* (I wrote Shen Wei repairing it into a fic when I noticed!)
Best solution!! ♥
Everyone is horrified by what Zhao Xinci seems to have done, and Zhao Xinci immediately owns it rather than telling the truth. He'll call the case a "success" even when the end result was entirely unplanned and unintentional, and he'd rather be thought of as a killer of Dixingren than as someone who can be blindsided like that. :( :( :(
I think he's trying to reassure everyone here using the same method he uses on himself. It just doesn't work on them at all, and they're kind of appalled by the method. ;-p
Damn, now I want to see Wu Tian'en's place!
Ooh, yes please!
> When Wu Tian'en knocks on Ding Dun's door, what does his reaction mean? Can he tell something's off?
> > I'm not sure either. He seems to look over his shoulder as if he's seeing something suspicious, and I have no idea what he's thinking. At first it seemed to me like he was looking at Zhao Yunlan, but that makes even less sense!
I wondered if he'd sensed/heard/smelled something bad or worrying inside and was looking back at Zhao Yunlan like, "Is this really a good idea? Have I brought Hei Pao Shi's friend (who he told me was untouchable) into danger? Ah well, too late now, and he seems to know what he wants."
It's also very interesting that Zhao Xinci is using an ancient family photo as his lockscreen, his family frozen in time before Shen Xi died. I wonder if he even has more recent photos of his son.
Well, it's not like ZYL would have sent him any. I don't think that's on ZXC, particularly. (And also, Shen Xi!)
since Zhao Yunlan never seems to have to reload the thing, and doesn't seem to worry about running out of ammo in YOHE at all.
Possibly Ma Gui makes him some?
And he didn't even stay long enough to let Zhao Yunlan wake up so he could ask him what happened ...
Ohh, maybe he went back to debrief with Wu Tian'en? And as you say, investigate Ding Dun, etc.
Ohhhh, is Zhao Yunlan storming off to find Shen Wei? I never understood why he just gets up and rushes out.
That's what I assumed, given we see them together shortly after.
Aiming for peaceful coexistence and cooperation rather than a strict segregation of Dixing and Haixing? Like that disagreement between young!Zhao Yunlan and Zhao Xinci in the hospital (the episode 39 flashback), where Zhao Yunlan insists he'll find a win-win solution?
Yes, but we don't find that out for another 20 episodes, so it seems a pretty obscure reference to make at this point. I think it must be more about the current SID vs the old SID, and ZYL's way of approaching standoffs vs ZXC's.
Also, ugh at Zhao Xinci practically saying killing Dixingren is his mission (even if he probably doesn't mean it that way)
Yeah, I don't think he means it quite that way, but close enough to be ugh.
I wonder if the Deacon set it up on the Regent's (and Ye Zun's) behalf, not mentioning who would be with Zhao Yunlan because the Regent is good at dodging away, and no one expected Zhao Yunlan to just push him right into the middle of it all ...
Except they don't point at the Deacon and say, "He told us to!" either. I think it would almost make more sense if the Regent set it up incognito, and they were surprised to find him here. Or... if Ding Dun arranged it? I mean, they did manage to direct Shen Wei to Ding Dun, so maybe it was Ding Dun who masterminded the whole thing? At Ye Zun's or the Deacon's behest?
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I think it's a perfectly viable interpretation, but canonically it's very ambiguous.
Also, I wonder how much, in general, he is extra harsh and legalistic because he refuses to be a quisling, letting Zhang Shi use him to soften Haixing's stance against Dixingren.
Yeah, I can totally see him looking at it that way! :(
He's not in a great position with Zhang Shi, agreed. And he can't bring himself to either truly compromise with Zhang Shi and let him change his views on Dixingren, or on the other hand to consider himself truly compromised by Zhang Shi's presence and either insist on Zhang Shi leaving or inform his superiors, so he ends up being simultaneously being a hardliner on Dixingren and actively hiding a Dixingren himself, a terribly hypocritical stance ...
Whispering gives him plausible deniability re his snitching on his patrons. ;-p I think he must be telling Shen Wei that ZYL exeunted pursued by bears An Bai and co, given that's who Shen Wei find and intimidates next?
Yeah, that's a good point about the snitching, though the deniability is rather dubiously plausible at this point. *g*
I wondered if he'd sensed/heard/smelled something bad or worrying inside and was looking back at Zhao Yunlan like, "Is this really a good idea? Have I brought Hei Pao Shi's friend (who he told me was untouchable) into danger? Ah well, too late now, and he seems to know what he wants."
I like that interpretation!
Well, it's not like ZYL would have sent him any. I don't think that's on ZXC, particularly. (And also, Shen Xi!)
Well, ZYL was still under his control for many years afterwards, surely? So having him pics of older teen ZYL wouldn't be up to ZYL.
Or... if Ding Dun arranged it? I mean, they did manage to direct Shen Wei to Ding Dun, so maybe it was Ding Dun who masterminded the whole thing? At Ye Zun's or the Deacon's behest?
Oh! Now this makes a lot of sense - I'm going to adopt this interpretation! The Regent can still have arranged it via the Deacon if Ding Dun (working for Ye Zun like the Deacon) was the Deacon's middleman. Or else the Regent arranged it himself with Ding Dun as the middleman - I mean, he apparently resurrected the guy; he might well have demanded favours in return? And Ding Dun might well have agreed if it was something that suited his/Ye Zun's agenda. *ponders*
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\o/!
So... the An Bai & co trap was for the Regent's benefit, to compromise the SID Chief so the Regent could "rescue" him and form an alliance against the Envoy. And the Regent arranged it through Ding Dun, let's say, not realising he had his own (Ye Zun's) agenda. And Ding Dun presumably wanted An Bai & co to assist in getting ZYL to Ding Dun's door, which is how they knew where to direct Shen Wei...
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ETA: I had been wondering what Ding Dun's plan was, since ZYL finds him entirely by accident and not in a way Ding Dun could have planned for, but Ding Dun clearly was after ZYL ... so it would make sense that An Bai et al. were originally tasked with getting him there!
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There's nothing to say Shen Wei hasn't already read these books - it's not like Zhao Yunlan would know.
Also, importantly, this is the first time we see Zhao Yunlan being confronted with the name Kunlun - and yet he clearly has a reaction to it. Why does it ring a bell for him? Hallows timey-wimey shenanigans, or has Da Qing actually mentioned Kunlun to him, since he recently remembered the name?
(Also, OMG, I can't look at how Zhao Yunlan treats that old book, folding it in half and stuffing it in his back pocket and sitting on it! /o\)
Also, did Sang Zan read through the entire library to find this stack?? Give that guy a raise.
100% agreed! Sang Zan did amazing work and is very underappreciated!
ZYL is so rude to Cong Bo. Cong Bo clearly knows he's supposed to be looking for dark energy shenanigans and isn't shocked by their existence.
I feel like Zhao Yunlan is taking revenge on Cong Bo a bit, for how much of an arse he was the last time he was at the SID (when he blackmailed them with the footage of Shen Wei's office). Also, he's very determined to keep the upper hand and rein in Cong Bo's arrogance.
(Also, the insult re Cong Bo disguised as a woman smacks me in the face every time. /o\)
Yeah. *sighs*
Shen Wei and the chancellor -- what kind of bureaucracy sends a new hire's other employer a file saying they're now working for a classified government org? What part of "classified" don't they understand?
I think it was your fic that suggested Zhao Xinci did that, and - yeah, that's my new headcanon now.
Jiajia, otoh, is insightful, delightful, and so kind and enthusiastic! *hearts her forever*
Jiajia is an absolute delight!
(Also, she's so tiny next to Shen Wei! I love seeing the two of them together. :D)
The scene and the transition to Zhao Yunlan pointedly saying, "Hei-laoge," always makes me think of this comment by trobadora
♥ ♥ ♥
One reading of this scene could be ZYL sounding Shen Wei out about close m/m relationships, but I'm not sure that's it. His attitude is a little confusingly unsympathetic, though. (I'm going, was the hairstyle change not supposed to be significant?)
I'm sorry, I don't understand what you mean? He doesn't seem unsympathetic to me at all. Zhao Yunlan seems to be teasing/making fun of Lao-Chu a bit, but not in a mean-spirited sort of way. I actually think he's saying the same thing as what Shen Wei is thinking internally, just expressed in a different way.
Fight Club: Everyone's so aggressive! How is that a fun place to hang out? ;-p
Adrenaline. Not fun to me, but I'm told people like it. *g*
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LOL! Though... it's not like Shen Wei has ever frequented the SID (or he'd know about Da Qing), so unless he has access to a duplicate library.... which he might?
(Also, OMG, I can't look at how Zhao Yunlan treats that old book, folding it in half and stuffing it in his back pocket and sitting on it! /o\)
LOL, right? Careless with valuable old books AND his weapon. /o\
I feel like Zhao Yunlan is taking revenge on Cong Bo a bit, for how much of an arse he was the last time he was at the SID (when he blackmailed them with the footage of Shen Wei's office). Also, he's very determined to keep the upper hand and rein in Cong Bo's arrogance.
And in a twisted way, maybe being rude to him is emphasising that he's part of the team now, similar to ZYL constantly giving Lin Jing a hard time?
Zhao Yunlan seems to be teasing/making fun of Lao-Chu a bit, but not in a mean-spirited sort of way.
I thought he was saying it as if it was a little distasteful. Like, he even asks, "Don't you think they're taking it too far?" But maybe I'm misreading his tone of voice/misunderstanding the subs.
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I mean, they're printed books, so multiple copies existing would be the standard assumption. And surely Shen Wei at some point did research on the Hallows, so all these relevant books that Sang Zan finds might also have been found by Shen Wei.
And in a twisted way, maybe being rude to him is emphasising that he's part of the team now, similar to ZYL constantly giving Lin Jing a hard time?
Haha, yeah, I could see him looking at it that way!
I thought he was saying it as if it was a little distasteful.
I didn't read it that way at all; it seemed more playful to me.
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> I didn't read it that way at all; it seemed more playful to me.
*rewatches* No, you're right it's not distasteful at all. I was conflating it with something else and got confused. I take that back.
But I don't quite read it as playful, either. Maybe his tone is, but there's no hint of mischief or humour in his expression. I still don't quite get what his subtext is. Maybe it'll become clear to me later... :-)
ETA: I was thinking about it some more. It goes like this, right?
ZYL: Hei-laoge! Are you listening to me?
SW: *is zoned out, thinking about his roles and the possible conflict between them*
ZYL: Hei-laoge!
SW: What you just said... You said... You sent Xiao Guo to the underground arena to investigate. Lao Chu is a bit worried, so he went along. I have to say, these two are like the best of partners now.
ZYL: I know, right? When Xiao Guo had just joined the SID, Lao Chu in particular avoided and rejected him. But now, of all of us here, he's the one who looks after Xiao Guo most.
ZYL: *sits forward; says, low and lightly serious* Don't you think Lao Chu dotes on his apprentice too much?
SW: *looks at ZYL*
ZYL: *cocks his head*
So, Shen Wei ventures an opinion about CSZ and GCC's (working) relationship, and ZYL agrees, elaborates, and then leans forward and confers about it. It's a silly question, but maybe ZYL, in consulting the Envoy about managing CSZ, is implying they're both his bosses? ZYL is sharing that leadership, too? Or at least positioning Shen Wei in relation to the others? That might make sense of the exchange of looks at the end, and Shen Wei's laugh? And it also fits with the theme of this conversation/episode, of Shen Wei establishing a place for himself at the SID.
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Yes, I think that's spot on - he's talking to Shen Wei as to Lao-Chu's other boss. Very good point about how it fits thematically!
(Sorry it took me so long to reply to this - I kept thinking I wanted to say more, but I can't figure out what. *g* Great thoughts, anyway!)
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This episode feels rather bitsy compared to episode 16
Huh, really? I feel like it has more going on - but then I always feel episode 16 spends more time than strictly necessary on Zhao Xinci being unpleasant. *g*
Actually, I never remember just how much is in this episode, what with the switch in cases!
a pervasive theme of mistaking, revealing, establishing and reaffirming roles and relationships
That's a great list of identity-related aspects! I love this theme in Guardian so much. :D
Zhao Xinci puts up a legalistic front so as not to admit an accident, but the truth is revealed in flashback.
Adding to Guardian's "things aren't what they seem at first" theme as well!
When Zhao Xinci says to the SID, "Please tell Zhao Yunlan once he's back to not be lazy and do crazy things." -- that seems more parental than official, right? A crack in his veneer of bureaucratic authority.
I'm not sure Zhao Xinci really has a line between parental and official any more - it looks to me like it's all merged together, and he's not interested in disentangling it because his entire identity is wrapped up in his official persona. Not helped by Zhang Shi's presence, which I'm pretty sure he doesn't want to see as a personal relationship. *g*
Interesting that he doesn't summon his usual calling card, the dao; I think he's trying to assert himself and de-escalate at the same time?
Yeah, agreed - he's trying to not be overly threatening when dealing with random civilian bystanders, unlike later with An Bai and friends (who after all were chasing after Zhao Yunlan).
Da Qing steps up into his deputy leadership role during Bao Laosan's assault, ably telling the team what to do.
I love that so much! More Da Qing in charge, please! :D
Ya Qing once again draws a line between her own agenda and Zhu Jiu/Ye Zun's, and decries the others' methods and ethics.
I love how clear it is from early on that Ya Qing's motives and views are very different from Zhu Jiu's, and that this is an uneasy alliance. It's what makes her last-minute change of heart work out so well. ♥
I think this is also the most egregious behaviour we've seen so far from Zhu Jiu towards his own people - the blatant manipulation of Bao Laosan with blatant lies and plays on his trauma, the prompt abandonment, the justification of said abandonment.
(And I wonder if Zhu Jiu's insistence that the boss would do the same thing is the first crack in Ya Qing's confidence that Ye Zun will give her people what they need.)
In Zhao Yunlan's dream, I'm never sure if Shen Xi is herself, or if she's Zhao Yunlan's projection, or if it's Ye Zun using/twisting her form.
Shen Xi herself wouldn't be quoting Ye Zun's words, surely? I always thought she was Zhao Yunlan's projection, and he's grappling with what Ye Zun said to him in the previous episode - we did see it get under his skin, after all. But we see later that Ye Zun is able to reach out to him across quite some distance (the car scene in the Reunion Festival episode!), and it would make sense that he's trying to worm his way into Zhao Yunlan's mind using a familiar form. So now I'm wondering if this is part of how Ye Zun's mind control powers work, worming their way under someone's defences ...
Come to think of it, since he's having this vision after Ding Dun stabs him, possibly he was poisoned with something that was supposed to make him more susceptible to Ye Zun's powers?
We see a nominal separation of power, when the Regent applies to the Dijun for approval to sentence An Bai & co. We also see the Dijun is basically a puppet without a voice; he only communicates with a bell.
At this point he seems even more a puppet than he actually is! Not a good picture.
Zhao Yunlan wrongly assumes Sang Zan is bad at his job.
This scene annoys me so much! Zhao Yunlan is incredibly condescending to Sang Zan and treats him like an idiot, when Sang Zan did excellent work - and worse, Zhao Yunlan doesn't even want to bother with reading all that material Sang Zan dug up for him, adding insult to injury. :(
Cong Bo says he dressed up to go undercover in the underground fight club (which, why? presumably he could have more safely and easily gone in as himself?).
He always thinks he's more clever than he is, and he seems to be very into spy shenanigans - it's not the only time he's dressing up or impersonating people, even if it's the only crossdressing example we have. (He also dresses up as a waiter in one, and claims to be Minister Gao's bodyguard in another. *g*)
Jiajia reveals she and the chancellor are secretly granddaughter and grandfather (and tells Shen Wei, regarding his choice, "Why not both?").
"Why not both" is such an important question! I love the thematic resonance here. ♥
What's your favourite line of dialogue? Favourite scene? Was there anything you'd forgotten?
Favourite scene: Shen Wei at the bar! The total stillness with which he holds himself. The way he intimidates everyone so completely just by standing there and being himself. As you said, he hasn't even summoned his dao!
I'd actually forgotten that the Regent said he helped Ding Dun cheat death - I remembered he'd helped him, but thought he'd helped him escape earlier, not that he's apparently responsible for Ding Dun's return to life! Damn, I really want to know how he did that. Is resurrecting people his actual power? Or does he just know someone with that power? *boggles*
I also always forget that Cong Bo brings them the fight ring case - and since it turns out to be related to Zhu Jiu, he's already making a good contribution!
(I do love that Zhao Yunlan, presumably in an effort to be cool in front of Cong Bo and keep the upper hand, looks through the photos and is dismissive - and then has to have it especially pointed out to him by Cong Bo before he notices that there's actually visible black energy in them! Delightful.)
What is Shen Wei's worst moment this episode? Hearing the drunk in the bar say he killed Zhao Yunlan? Having his people throw food and jeer? Finding Zhao Yunlan half-dead in the street? Having the chancellor tell him to choose between teaching and consulting at the SID, and knowing he has to choose the SID? Something else?
The chancellor making him choose between the uni and the SID, I'd say. I don't think he takes the drunk seriously - I think he can tell it's just drunken braggadocio. And his people throwing food at him wouldn't hurt that much since it's not aimed at him, but at someone pretending to be him - in a weird way, it's an expression of respect for the Envoy that they're so contemptuous of an impostor. (Even if it's surely not pleasant that they apparently can't conceive of him actually being himself.) And while finding Zhao Yunlan stabbed at Ding Dun's is definitely a horrible moment for him, it's also all in the heat of the moment and doesn't have time to sink in before he's already examining/healing Zhao Yunlan. Whereas the situation with the uni is something he's probably anticipated and dreaded, and he has a choice about it but not a real one, and that kind of thing is just the worst.
Does anyone pay Wu Tian'en back the 500 yuan? Is it Dixing currency?
I hope the Envoy pays him back!
I would prefer if it were Dixing money, but it seems to be the same bills previously seen in Haixing. Which gives us a new question: why is Haixing currency being used in Dixing? What is native Dixing currency like?
And why does Ding Dun kill Zhao Yunlan? It seems like a personal grudge, but they never met. Is he acting on Ye Zun's behalf? And why did he burn the Register? Why right then? Any thoughts?
I do think he's acting on Ye Zun's behalf for both, yeah, but I have no idea why he's attacking him. (I'm also not 100% on whether he's trying to actually kill him - he doesn't say 杀, he says 拼, and I have no idea how to parse that, my language skills are not up to that - but if he does, I'm not sure why either.) Hm, "for the Hallows" makes me wonder if he thinks taking the Lord Guardian out of the equation would make the Hallows unprotected in Haixing, and up for grabs for Ye Zun's people? He doesn't seem to have been in Dragon City for very long; he may not have the clearest understanding of Zhao Yunlan's position.
And why he's burning the Register at all (other than preventing the Envoy from reclaiming it) I'm not sure, much less why he'd only do it this late - surely if Ye Zun wanted the thing destroyed, it would have been burnt earlier ...
Is there any payoff from Shen Wei finding the smoking remains of the Dijun's Register?
Not as far as I can tell! This whole storyline feels like it's missing something. Or maybe I'm the one who's missing something, idk.
What exactly happened with Bao Laosan's death? Why does Zhang Shi blame Zhao Xinci? Do you think Zhao Xinci has changed at all since the flashback where Bao Laosan's wife died?
I'm never sure what to make of Bao Laosan essentially killing himself -why does he do that? He calls out about avenging his wife, and I don't see how that goes together. Any ideas?
I think Zhang Shi blames Zhao Xinci not so much because of what Zhao Xinci did in this instance, but because of Zhao Xinci's attitude in general, and because he's still spouting the same kind of legalistic rhetoric as back then, even though it clearly isn't helping. If he's changed (and he may have, depending on when the Gu Ban scene happens), he's circled back round to doing exactly the same thing again, presenting an uncompromising stance. Then and now, negotiation or de-escalation don't seem to be in his arsenal.
Why on earth would Zhao Yunlan send Guo Changcheng on his own to investigate an underground fight club? I mean, sure, Lao Chu will inevitably get in someone's face and end up fighting. But Guo Changcheng on his own doesn't seem like a better option!
The only way Zhao Yunlan sending Xiao-Guo on his own makes any sense is if he knew Lao-Chu would go along anyway. *g* Honestly, I could see him doing that, just to tweak his nose.
More thoughts:
When Zhao Yunlan asks, "does Dixing have anything like an intelligence agency", do you think that's because he's learned better than to assume Dixing will have anything in particular, after his mistakes with the schools and hospitals?
It just occurred to me why Wu Tian'en has to run out of teleportation stamina before they arrive: so he can't just grab Zhao Yunlan and pull him to safety when things start going wrong! So Shen Wei can forcefully throw Ding Dun away from Zhao Yunlan! :D
At the very end, Ye Huo seems to be randomly confronting/threatening, but in light of what we actually know about him, he's actually warning Lao-Chu and Xiao-Guo that this place is dangerous for someone like Xiao-Guo especially.
It's hilarious to me that the episode ends in the middle of a scene, cut off in a way to make it seem like a cliffhanger - as if the next episode would continue it, and we'd get to hear what Lao-Chu was going to tell us about Ye Huo. But in fact he never actually gets to say that in the next episode either, because they're interrupted before he can say even a word more! :D
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Huh, really? I feel like it has more going on - but then I always feel episode 16 spends more time than strictly necessary on Zhao Xinci being unpleasant. *g*
I think it feels bitsy because it's a bunch of wrapping things up and transitional stuff, rather than having a single case or overall arc. A lot of the bits are excellent and meaningful, but I have a harder time grasping the episode as a whole. Obviously YMMV!
I'm not sure Zhao Xinci really has a line between parental and official any more - it looks to me like it's all merged together
Well, there's something that runs in the family. :-) That's an excellent point about his relationship with Zhang Shi, though! If he refuses to see that as personal (even though it clearly is; how could it not be?), then he is always, always on duty, and that has to colour every other relationship he has, too. Oh, Xinci!
I wonder how different ZXC would be if Da Qing had pushed his way into his life and forced him to be friends. They are surprisingly... collegial? at the end there. And cats are good at sneaking past/ignoring boundaries... (Oh no, I don't want to want to write this! /o\ ;-p)
I love how clear it is from early on that Ya Qing's motives and views are very different from Zhu Jiu's, and that this is an uneasy alliance. It's what makes her last-minute change of heart work out so well. ♥
Agreed! <3
(And I wonder if Zhu Jiu's insistence that the boss would do the same thing is the first crack in Ya Qing's confidence that Ye Zun will give her people what they need.)
Ohh, excellent point! How do you trust someone who declares themself untrustworthy?
I always thought she was Zhao Yunlan's projection, and he's grappling with what Ye Zun said to him in the previous episode - we did see it get under his skin, after all.
That would make a lot of sense! (I thought Shen Wei healed him of the poison. Do you think that only went so far?)
He always thinks he's more clever than he is, and he seems to be very into spy shenanigans - it's not the only time he's dressing up or impersonating people, even if it's the only crossdressing example we have. (He also dresses up as a waiter in one, and claims to be Minister Gao's bodyguard in another. *g*)
Yeah, but those cover stories made sense in those contexts. Here, I just feel like he's making himself more conspicuous by dressing up. I mean, do we see any women at all in there? (IOW, I feel like this line is mostly here for thematic and "humour" reasons, than for any other purpose.)
(I do love that Zhao Yunlan, presumably in an effort to be cool in front of Cong Bo and keep the upper hand, looks through the photos and is dismissive - and then has to have it especially pointed out to him by Cong Bo before he notices that there's actually visible black energy in them! Delightful.)
Oh, ha, I hadn't really registered that. Awesome! :D
And while finding Zhao Yunlan stabbed at Ding Dun's is definitely a horrible moment for him, it's also all in the heat of the moment and doesn't have time to sink in before he's already examining/healing Zhao Yunlan.
I wonder if he wakes up sweating about it later, though. If he hadn't arrived just at that moment...!!
Whereas the situation with the uni is something he's probably anticipated and dreaded, and he has a choice about it but not a real one, and that kind of thing is just the worst.
Yeah, it's so brutal, and the chancellor does it with a smile. /o\
I do think he's acting on Ye Zun's behalf for both, yeah, but I have no idea why he's attacking him.
Plus, you know, Zhu Jiu murdered Ding Dun, so why is Ding Dun still helping them? Does he just not hold Ye Zun responsible? It's not like he's the forgiving type. Maybe it's all mind control?
I'm also not 100% on whether he's trying to actually kill him - he doesn't say 杀, he says 拼, and I have no idea how to parse that
I have less (no) idea! What's your impression?
Hm, "for the Hallows" makes me wonder if he thinks taking the Lord Guardian out of the equation would make the Hallows unprotected in Haixing, and up for grabs for Ye Zun's people? He doesn't seem to have been in Dragon City for very long; he may not have the clearest understanding of Zhao Yunlan's position.
Or maybe he thinks the SID is stealing/hoarding the Hallows that rightfully belong to Dixing. Who knows??
And why he's burning the Register at all (other than preventing the Envoy from reclaiming it) I'm not sure, much less why he'd only do it this late - surely if Ye Zun wanted the thing destroyed, it would have been burnt earlier ...
Maybe he was hoping to get to keep it/use it for other things, but he heard that the Envoy was in town, so after some deliberation he decided the safest way forward was to destroy it. Or he was waiting till just the right moment, to throw its destruction in Shen Wei's face. Actually, An Bai & co seem to direct Shen Wei to Ding Dun's street, right? Maybe they're more involved with Ding Dun than we thought? I'm getting so tangled up in this.
I'm never sure what to make of Bao Laosan essentially killing himself -why does he do that? He calls out about avenging his wife, and I don't see how that goes together. Any ideas?
I can't tell if it's deliberate, or if he just nudged ZXC's trigger finger during the tussle. :-(
I think Zhang Shi blames Zhao Xinci not so much because of what Zhao Xinci did in this instance, but because of Zhao Xinci's attitude in general, and because he's still spouting the same kind of legalistic rhetoric as back then, even though it clearly isn't helping.
So blaming him for Bao Laosan's death is a proxy for those other things? *rewatches* That makes sense. In that case, I wonder how much "This is my mission and my destiny" is Zhao Xinci shielding/defending himself from Zhang Shi. If, as you say above, he views their relationship as purely business, he wouldn't think Zhang Shi had a right to his personal thoughts and feelings on the matter (and presumably has no space to actually have those thoughts and feelings without feeling watched/criticised/judged). Ugh, all such a mess.
Then and now, negotiation or de-escalation don't seem to be in his arsenal.
Yeah, I think that's the case. De-escalation requires empathy, and he doesn't allow himself to step outside his role of defensive protector of Haixing long enough to empathise (wow, his relationship with Zhang Shi must be so dysfunctional!), just like he can't seem to step outside of his role as parent long enough to empathise with Zhao Yunlan. It's such a terrible trait, but I can really see how it could stem from -- or at least be exacerbated by -- Zhang Shi's presence, so I can't help feeling sorry for ZXC, for all his exasperating, stubborn, bigoted faults.
Maybe the best that can be said of him is that he realised he wasn't fit for fieldwork anymore and moved into bureaucracy? ;-p
When Zhao Yunlan asks, "does Dixing have anything like an intelligence agency", do you think that's because he's learned better than to assume Dixing will have anything in particular, after his mistakes with the schools and hospitals?
He must realise it doesn't have an investigative body, or the Regent wouldn't have needed his help to find the book. And yeah, he's grown a bit more cautious about assuming anything by this point, hasn't he?
It just occurred to me why Wu Tian'en has to run out of teleportation stamina before they arrive: so he can't just grab Zhao Yunlan and pull him to safety when things start going wrong! So Shen Wei can forcefully throw Ding Dun away from Zhao Yunlan! :D
Ha, yes. Narrative causality!
At the very end, Ye Huo seems to be randomly confronting/threatening, but in light of what we actually know about him, he's actually warning Lao-Chu and Xiao-Guo that this place is dangerous for someone like Xiao-Guo especially.
Yesss! I love how much (different) sense that conversation makes in retrospect. <3
But in fact he never actually gets to say that in the next episode either, because they're interrupted before he can say even a word more! :D
Hee! I assume he's realised Ye Huo is Dixingren, right? It doesn't really need to be put into words.
(I'll have to reply to your other comments tomorrow.)
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It certainly feels less a unified whole, I agree about that, but that's not the same to me as feeling bitsy at all ...
That's an excellent point about his relationship with Zhang Shi, though! If he refuses to see that as personal (even though it clearly is; how could it not be?), then he is always, always on duty, and that has to colour every other relationship he has, too. Oh, Xinci!
Right????
I wonder how different ZXC would be if Da Qing had pushed his way into his life and forced him to be friends. They are surprisingly... collegial? at the end there. And cats are good at sneaking past/ignoring boundaries... (Oh no, I don't want to want to write this! /o\ ;-p)
That would be a fascinating AU, and I really would love to see more of what things were and are like between Zhao Xinci and Da Qing, but for Zhao Yunlan's sake I don't want that AU after all. :p
(I thought Shen Wei healed him of the poison. Do you think that only went so far?)
I guess it depends on how Ye Zun's mind control powers work, and if they can leave remnants of themselves behind.
Here, I just feel like he's making himself more conspicuous by dressing up.
You're not wrong, and I don't disagree that it's mainly for "humour", but I still think it fits his character to get this into his "investigation" that he does stuff like that.
I wonder if he wakes up sweating about it later, though. If he hadn't arrived just at that moment...!!
Oh yeah, definitely! Poor Shen Wei. *g*
Plus, you know, Zhu Jiu murdered Ding Dun, so why is Ding Dun still helping them? Does he just not hold Ye Zun responsible? It's not like he's the forgiving type. Maybe it's all mind control?
I have no idea! Ding Dun still makes zero sense to me.
I have less (no) idea! What's your impression?
Idk, he seems to be charging him with a blade, so I guess he means to kill him at that point. But that's after Shen Wei has appeared on the scene, so whether that was his original plan, I'm not sure.
Or maybe he thinks the SID is stealing/hoarding the Hallows that rightfully belong to Dixing. Who knows??
Oh, good point! And Shen Wei does say, doesn't he, that some people believe he's colluding with the SID to keep the Hallows from Dixing ...
Actually, An Bai & co seem to direct Shen Wei to Ding Dun's street, right? Maybe they're more involved with Ding Dun than we thought? I'm getting so tangled up in this.
Ha, yeah, so complicated. I'm also not sure where they stand are with regard to Ye Zun. In their confrontation with Zhao Yunlan at the pillar they're spouting Ye Zun's the-Envoy-is-a-traitor rhetoric, but they seem too generally aimless to be his direct agents, and nothing I can recall of them later makes them seem like they're really Ye Zun's people. Am I forgetting something?
I can't tell if it's deliberate, or if he just nudged ZXC's trigger finger during the tussle. :-(
Oh, ouch, I hadn't considered that. :( :( :(
So blaming him for Bao Laosan's death is a proxy for those other things?
Yeah, that's how it reads to me.
It's such a terrible trait, but I can really see how it could stem from -- or at least be exacerbated by -- Zhang Shi's presence, so I can't help feeling sorry for ZXC, for all his exasperating, stubborn, bigoted faults.
I don't think it stems from Zhang Shi, because the way he deals with Zhang Shi's presence in the first place is IMO already an expression of that trait, but yeah, Zhang Shi's presence makes it all so much worse. :(
(I wonder how much things would change if Zhang Shi had a different host!)
Maybe the best that can be said of him is that he realised he wasn't fit for fieldwork anymore and moved into bureaucracy? ;-p
LOL! Not wrong. :p
Hee! I assume he's realised Ye Huo is Dixingren, right? It doesn't really need to be put into words.
Yeah, that's it, and it doesn't really need words - which is why I find it hilarious that it's cut in such a way as to make it seem like a cliffhanger!
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What if it led to a better home life for bb!Yunlan, though? ZXC and ZS and DQ and ZYL could have made a family together...
In their confrontation with Zhao Yunlan at the pillar they're spouting Ye Zun's the-Envoy-is-a-traitor rhetoric, but they seem too generally aimless to be his direct agents, and nothing I can recall of them later makes them seem like they're really Ye Zun's people.
Ding Dun started their radicalisation, and Ye Zun completes the process for two of them later?
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But Da Qing is meant to be Zhao Yunlan's friend first, not his father's! *grumbles*
Ding Dun started their radicalisation, and Ye Zun completes the process for two of them later?
That makes sense to me!