Zhao Yunlan's quotations

[marycrawford]

(I've searched back through the type:questions tag and couldn't find it, so if anyone has already discussed this, please link me?)

I love how Zhao Yunlan pretends to be a plebe and a know-nothing, which is clearly as much of an act as his good-time guileless bro is, because he also seems to quote highbrow things all the damn time.

It's both endearing and frustrating, because I don't speak a word of Chinese, and I would really really like to know more about the things Zhao Yunlan quotes - sometimes the subs helpfully tell me it's poetry, like the line he quotes to Shen Wei when they're in the mountains in the Wear My Jacket I Insist scene. And sometimes it's clearly a proverb/saying, like "trust those you hire/hire those you trust" and IIRC he also quotes from the Art of War somewhere?

Has anyone more organized and knowledgeable than me made a list of ZYL quotations, or sources, or anything?

And is it me, or does Shen Wei, the polished 10,000 year old Professor, not do this at all?

Comments

[trobadora]

I haven't seen any previous discussion about this, but I'm going to camp out in this post and hope someone has some info, because I've been wondering about this too.

[enviropony]

I don't remember getting the impression that Shen Wei quotes things the way Zhao Yunlan does, but I feel like it kinda fits in with his persona? Like, the idea that scientists don't "do" art or philosophy. A thing is, or it isn't, and we shall find out why rather than musing on existentialism. Shen Wei's a lot more down to earth than Zhao Yunlan, and I bet that while he knows all this stuff, it doesn't ping for him emotionally the way it does for Zhao Yunlan. Or it does, but he's just not the type to quote things. XD

[winter_blossom]

I like this theory! I mean, Shen Wei is a warrior first, a scientist second, and really does live and breathe both of those personas, so it doesn't seem likely that he'd be much interested in (Haixing) literature or philosophy. I assume he must have read some of the more famous literary classics in order to lend credibility to his "distinguished Haixing scholar" persona, but it doesn't seem likely that he'd actually draw on them in his day-to-day life. I suppose he vaguely knows which texts Zhao Yunlan is drawing from and what they're supposed to mean, but they probably don't strike him very much on an emotional level.

Also, a lot of those quotes are from the novel, where it's a known fact that ZYL comes from a very distinguished family and had a high-brow education (also, his mother is still alive and well) so there's that, too.

As for the original question, this post by ranalore has a bit about ZYL's poetry-quoting habits and some relevant links (last paragraph before the 30 Days part), but that's about all I recall having seen on the topic.

[winter_blossom]

I wrote this comment while half-asleep and realised just now that it might sound like I don't think drama!ZYL is an intellectual. Which is absolutely not true, because I'm certain he is. However, I don't find it very plausible that he'd have taken Literature in school or have any patience for romantic poetry - that's the kind of thing mothers steer their sons towards, not single fathers like Zhao Xinci. And after his mum's death my personal headcanon is that ZYL took up subjects like criminal psychology and law and went all-out with the outdoor activities like scouting because he wanted to be well-prepared for taking over as SID Chief.

So in the dramaverse I'd totally believe ZYL quoting The Art of War or sayings by scientists and strategists, but romantic or existential poetry/dramas/plays? Not so much. Unless he'd researched them to, I dunno, catch a criminal out in a lie about their classical education or something ;)

[enviropony]

LOL, yeah, I don't see Zhao Xinci having much patience for lit or poetry. But I do see Zhao Yunlan learning that sort of thing just because he can, TBH. Not a lot, but I feel like he'd know the common classics. Like, he took that one mandatory Lit class and he aced it! He seems the kind to think that you never know what's gonna come in handy, and sometimes you need to pull a fancy quote out to impress the people who are giving money to your department. But it's definitely not his secret hobby or anything. :-)

[winter_blossom]

Oh, hey, not bad! I can totally see that, too.

[abyss_valkyrie]

Lol!The fact that you make sense when you're half-asleep is so cool.XD
I like the idea here. Ah,him being from a distinguished family rings true to me unless it's a regular Chinese practice to have their kids know how to play the violin. Someone mentioned that ZYL holds it wrong in the drama but he's still supposed to know it I guess. :) Or maybe he just wanted to read up on Lit stuff because his dad probably finds it 'useless'.

[tassosss]

I think in tv shorthand we're supposed to think he plays the violin well because they dubbed over music, but yeah, the way he holds the violin makes me cringe. The bow is placed wrong and overtightened, and *shudders*. I can't watch that scene.

[winter_blossom]

The interesting thing is that I know nothing about classical music and I could still tell that he was holding the violin wrong. Another reason I'm not super into, say, an AU with ZYL as an accomplished violinist. A less uptight instrument (like guitar, which we know the actor is excellent at!) would suit him way better *grin*

[starriewolf]

Just fyi, the ability to play a musical instrument is a hallmark of proper upbringing, so any parent who can afford it will make sure their kid learns something. Although most don't get very/any far.
It used to be only economically viable in upper society families, though, so it doesn't invalidate the headcanon of ZYL being born in a distinguished family.

[abyss_valkyrie]

That makes sense!Thanks a lot! :D
I guess many don't get far because it takes diligence and passion to stick to it and if you're really not interested,it's just impossible to keep going.

[marycrawford]

Thanks for the link and ideas! "A lot of those quotes are from the novel" - the things ZYL quotes in the series, you mean? I didn't realize they'd stuck that close to the novel for those.

[winter_blossom]

I can't remember whether they're the exact lines, since the only time I read the novel was right after I finished the drama, when I skimmed the 70+ chapters that were on Wattpad at the time and then gave it up, but novel!ZYL often does stuff like quote love poetry and philosophical rambles, because he's tends to be way more poetic, introspective and romantic compared to drama!ZYL, who's more intelligent and manipulative (imo) than his novel counterpart but less... I dunno, world-weary? Wise? (YMMV, of course!)

I mean, you know the famous "catch my heart" and "it was a life he'd always dreamed of" excerpts from the novel, right? Not to mention the house-buying and the marriage proposal and the vegetable garden. I can't for the life of me imagine drama!ZYL saying or thinking or doing any of those things, tbh, and I think that, from a Watsonian perspective, the early loss of his mother is what made that marked difference between his novel and drama selves (with the Doylist explanation being censorship).

And there I go again with the theories-that-no-one-asked-for *sigh*

[marycrawford]

Right, I've read the "catch my heart" bit, and that ZYL buys a house for them is mentioned there too I think?

I don't know though, I can totally imagine drama-ZYL buying a house for them and mentioning it in that same kind of offhand manner, because that's less scary than making a big deal out of it (and less vulnerable, giving a gift like that, if you make it seem like no big deal). But yeah, not the "my heart, if you want to catch it" line. I like your Watsonian idea about the loss of ZYL's mother, that makes a lot of sense!

[winter_blossom]

Maybe it's petty, but when I read the book I felt almost jealous of novel!Shen Wei on our Shen Wei's behalf, because damn does his Zhao Yunlan dote on him! But at the same time, I thoroughly approve of drama!ZYL's devil-may-care attitude and find his novel counterpart way too clingy, so... Yeah. Weird Conflicting Emotions, I have them x_x

[extrapenguin]

Yeah, this. I also think that since Shen Wei skipped 10 000 years and had to catch up to modern Haixing as an adult, he also plain knows less classics than Zhao Yunlan. He likely knows the popular ones, and the most-quoted sayings from the rest, but if Zhao Yunlan quotes something, Shen Wei's probably going to recognize that it's a quote but not where it's from.

[enviropony]

That's a good point. I always forget how much of this stuff we absorb as we grow up. I mean, it's either classic lit or movie & TV quotes, but everybody's got a pocket full of sayings from their formative days. And that's an experience Shen Wei just never had.

[extrapenguin]

Yeah, and a lot of Shen Wei's efforts were no doubt concentrating on acquiring skills like "how not to get hit by cars", with cultural stuff coming after the essential survival skills. He's learned so much, but he can't have learned everything.

[starriewolf]

This ^^^^^

Chinese literature is compulsory in schools so anybody who's gone all the way to university (aka Zhao Yunlan, because it's also a Chinese policy thing that he wouldn't be able to have that job without a university degree) would and should be using famous poetry lines and references automatically.

On the flip side, though, I help solo out with the Guardian subs sometimes, and some of the things Shen Wei says during climaxes are seriously the most esoteric references ever. It's easy to tell he's not a modern human being in those cases; the effect is like if you were walking down the street and somebody started speaking entire sentences in Middle English or something. Part of it's probably the novel's influence also, since in the novel he's a professor of classical Chinese literature...

[abyss_valkyrie]

Oh yes,I would so like to know the references of these too. I do wonder if Shen Wei kinda refrains so as not to seem too er-knowledgeable?Or like too wise for someone who's supposed to be only 30-ish in the series I think.

[marycrawford]

That's so interesting, I can see it both ways - that he doesn't know so much because of the gaps in his history, as ppl mentioned above, or that he had 10000 years to learn ALL the things and has to hide it.

[starriewolf]

I don't have any stats or even a balanced opinion, but I was helping solo out with the Guardian subs and at least to me it felt like Shen Wei was the one with all the esoteric references.

I don't remember anything Zhao Yunlan has said that jumped out at me, but I freely admit that I've only ever watched Guardian once so I may not have remembered it.

Just to throw in my two cents, though, any normal Chinese person who's gotten all the way to a university degree should be automatically conversant in common poetry and idiomatic phrases/proverbs. It's like how anyone with a certain degree of proficiency in English can randomly throw around the most famous Shakespeare lines and use idioms without thinking about it.

[marycrawford]

That is fascinating, please if you have time, I would love to know more about theesoteric references Shen Wei uses/quotes?

It makes sense that they both would have a sort of standard higher-education stock to draw on, though, that's a good point.

[starriewolf]

Man, that would take way too long, if I have to rewatch the whole of Guardian... I don't think I have that kind of time sorry. Unless solo/someone has a copy of the original dialogue and I can just speed-read that.

Offhand I only recall a few, like near the final battle when SW talks about why he's willing to die for humanity rather than join YZ, and that part in YOHE (aka the ones I was banging my head against the table to translate). YZ also does it once that I remember, when he's speaking to ZYL about the futility of humankind.

But one of the issues is also that some of the references get bastardised by the screenwriters/don't actually make sense out of the novel context...

Edit: meanwhile ZYL seems to speak like any regular educated Chinese person to me. He might very well have slightly more esoteric references too, but I don't recall any offhand.

[marycrawford]

Oh no, goodness, I didn't mean "rewatch all of Guardian and record all the quotes for me" - that would be a huge endeavor! I was just curious if you had any moments that came readily to mind, like the ones you mentioned here, and thanks for that. It's always great to have more context for these characters.