The Art of Dialogue and the kitchen knife scene

[china_shop]

I was watching a YouTube video about how to write snappy dialogue (banter) by heyjameshurst. The creator used examples from The Princess Bride, The Empire Strikes Back, His Girl Friday, and The West Wing to illustrate that good dialogue is like a tennis match, a playful competition, and in each volley the tension escalates to "a sudden, sharp reveal of truth."

Afterwards, I was thinking about it in terms of Guardian, and the first scene that came to mind was the kitchen knife scene. Wow, this is a stellar example of what the video talked about! It's dynamic because every line fires back in a way that is difficult for the other person to respond to. (Often they're reacting to the subtext -- or actually, what they perceive the other's subtext to be -- rather than the words, and sometimes slightly at cross-purposes, so lines that could be non-sequiturs feel seamless.) And the truth is forced out of them. It's so impressive!

ZYL: I woke up because I was hungry.
SW: *turns and drops the knife*
ZYL: *strides over and grabs his wrist* Don't you think of lying to me. What did you do in order to heal my eyes?
SW: *starts to leave*
ZYL: You used the Longevity Dial.
SW: *stops*
ZYL: *moves to his side* You shared your life force with mine. You used your power to neutralize the corrosion of my body. Am I right?
SW: My... My... My body's energy structure has suffered a severe blow. I need to exchange all my energy.
ZYL: It must hurt a lot.
SW: *ghastly smile* Fortunately... Fortunately, I'm used to getting injured.
ZYL: I do not deserve what you are doing for me.
SW: You're worth it.
ZYL: *explodes* Then, what do you want me to do? Be indebted to you? To bow to you? You are not immortal! Why should I so casually owe you a life?
SW: This life is what I'm returning to you.
ZYL: ??????
SW: You should rest soon.

There are so many truths here!! <3 <3 <3

Thinking about it also made me realise something about Shen Wei's initially trying to leave and his "Fortunately, I'm used to getting injured" line, which I will explain in six screencaps:













Newsflash, Shen Wei: Zhao Yunlan's tactics are no more reassuring or less infuriating when you try them.

Comments

[china_shop]

I wasn't even thinking about it in terms of verbal/not verbal. Just that "It must really hurt" is the kind of sympathy than can make you focus on, you know, how much it hurts; whereas being attacked with a handkerchief is almost invigorating. ;-p

Shen Wei gives comfort in a practical (and, when the hurt is self-inflicted, infuriated) way: food, liniment/first aid, physical support, peptalk, putting unconscious!ZYL to bed. Like, even when ZYL gets whacked with a metal bar during the mugging, SW asks, "Are you all right?" and when ZYL says yeah, SW doesn't argue in the moment.

It's not that ZYL's sympathy is wrong at all -- but I don't know that it's what SW needs? (Whereas, ZYL putting drunk!SW to bed and giving him an IV is much more in line with SW's style of care.)

[facethestrange]

"ZYL time-travelled TEN THOUSAND YEARS to sit in the moonlight with Shen Wei and feed him lollipops. <3 <3 <3"

Asdfghjhgfdshjsdfgfdkl;; ♡♡♡ I'M DECEASED WITH GLEE. xD :D :D

I've been writing a YOHE fic again btw, I thought I ran out of those and I was kinda sad about it ngl, but apparently not. :D :D

[china_shop]

Though for the record, the kitchen scene works well for me and I love it, it's just also upsetting.

*nodnodnod* *hearts*

I just meant that healing ZYL's eyes has no cost in the novel, so the drama writers grabbed the cost from somewhere where it already exists in the novel, and made the Dial a much more prominent 'character'. :D

Oh, yes! Great point -- and yes, so excellently done! *more gift baskets for the writers!!* :D

Doesn't the novel Dial just take a part of one person's lifespan to give it to the other person? Like, the amount of years stays the same, just moved around?

Yes. Oh, wait. The younger person gives half their remaining years to the older person, right? So that doesn't actually help. I was thinking that SW and CSZ are both extremely long-lived, so if they shared their lifespans, everyone gets to be (slightly less) long-lived together. But idk how the Dial would deal with a regular human sharing with someone like CSZ who still looks young after a hundred years in prison... doh!

[facethestrange]

"Just that "It must really hurt" is the kind of sympathy than can make you focus on, you know, how much it hurts; whereas being attacked with a handkerchief is almost invigorating. ;-p"

Hmm, this is what from my perspective feels the same - he's still saying that it hurts? Otherwise he wouldn't be attacking him with a handkerchief. :P

"Shen Wei gives comfort in a practical (and, when the hurt is self-inflicted, infuriated) way: food, liniment/first aid, physical support, peptalk, putting unconscious!ZYL to bed."

And that's kinda exactly what I originally meant when I said they both do that - it's in different ways, but SW still gives comfort when ZYL doesn't want comfort (or doesn't think he needs it, or doesn't think he deserves it, or thinks that nothing bad is happening at all, either way, he makes it clear that he's not asking for comfort at all).

[china_shop]

:D :D :D (Ftr, I'm pretty sure I got that from Gaywatch -- if not the exact wording, the general take. :D (I don't usually do watch-alongs, but their reaction to YOHE was just GOLD. :D))

I've been writing a YOHE fic again btw, I thought I ran out of those and I was kinda sad about it ngl, but apparently not. :D :D

Ahh, yay! That's awesome! *twirls you*

[facethestrange]

:D :D It's a flawless take, the wording included. :D ♡♡♡ Thank you for the link! I really don't do reaction videos, but if I ever do in the future, this is where I will go first. :D

(And aww, thank you! :D :D ♡)

[china_shop]

Hmm, this is what from my perspective feels the same - he's still saying that it hurts? Otherwise he wouldn't be attacking him with a handkerchief. :P

But Shen Wei isn't wiping ZYL's nose because it hurts (ZYL doesn't even notice the nosebleed until SW does); he's wiping ZYL's nose because there's blood there, ie, ZYL has injured himself again. ZYL doesn't ask for sympathy, and SW doesn't give it.

I guess I'm just distinguishing between "you're hurt/injured (and I will look after you as appropriate)" and "that must hurt (and it hurts me that you're in pain)." To me, those are really different vibes? Maybe that's just me, tho.

/possibly belabouring the point at this point, and should definitely be asleep ;-)

[facethestrange]

"Yes. Oh, wait. The younger person gives half their remaining years to the older person, right? So that doesn't actually help. I was thinking that SW and CSZ are both extremely long-lived, so if they shared their lifespans, everyone gets to be (slightly less) long-lived together. But idk how the Dial would deal with a regular human sharing with someone like CSZ who still looks young after a hundred years in prison... doh!"

Oooooh, now I see what you mean, and I think you were totally right! :D I don't think it's 'younger and older', I think it's just 'giver and receiver'. On the other hand, I just checked, and someone has to be dead for it to work: "It means someone with the Hallowed Reincarnation Artifact can use it to exchange half of their own remaining life to bring back someone who’s already dead. After that, when one of them dies, so does the other."

But if it was adjusted so that a part of their remaining life could be used to heal someone (probably not even half of it in that case), then being really long-lived is definitely a cheat code. :D I wonder if then it would only give the other person the healing without the life span, though? But even then, they could heal people without a noticeable cost. :D

[facethestrange]

"But Shen Wei isn't wiping ZYL's nose because it hurts (ZYL doesn't even notice the nosebleed until SW does); he's wiping ZYL's nose because there's blood there, ie, ZYL has injured himself again. ZYL doesn't ask for sympathy, and SW doesn't give it."

I guess I just mean, Zhao Yunlan is not asking to have his nose wiped either, blood or not? Same with getting fed, he doesn't ask for it either, SW does it anyway.

I absolutely respect the vibes feeling different! :) I don't even disagree at all, I just personally can't tell the difference (beyond the verbal/non-verbal one, that is), but it doesn't at all mean that there isn't one. :)

(Sleep well! :) ♡)

[china_shop]

Kunlun looked so affectionate when he said Shen Wei had already repaid his debt many times over! Why is ZYL getting so mad about this now? SW should have known that when it actually came down to it, it wouldn't be so straightforward.

[china_shop]

Ha, yes! It hits a little differently in YOHE because ZYL doesn't have the decades/thousands of years of waiting behind him, and he's in a whole surprise! new context. But that's a great point. *smishes them at both timeline points*

[china_shop]

<3 <3 <3

[china_shop]

In chapter 7, just above the bit you quoted, Zhu Hong says, “The Reincarnation Dial represents the sun rising in the morning and setting in the evening. Just like how the scales of the black fish in the Wangchuan River only lie in one direction, it’s only possible for an older person to borrow time from someone younger, not the other way around. Director Zhao, I think you’ve misunderstood [Li Qian].”

But that might be just her understanding. Maybe the Dial can transfer years from someone with a longer remaining lifespan to someone with a shorter one. But you're right about the other person having to be dead first, boo. (Maybe GCC was dead-ish/mostly dead when he came back from Dixing?)

But even then, they could heal people without a noticeable cost. :D

Which appears to be what happens with CSZ and GCC. But it's different for Weilan because of the energy corruption (and ZYL isn't dead).

[facethestrange]

Hee, yeah, definitely, he basically only just saw ~his~ Shen Wei and hasn't been missing him for ages, but he still hopes that maybe SW will remember him here too, and then it's like 'oh okay, no, definitely not'. More lighthearted vs more punch-in-the-gut versions of the same moment. :D

[facethestrange]

"And oh, I just realised! The blindness was from Ye Zun's attack, and Shen Wei manages to belatedly pay it back to Ye Zun a hundredfold. Which means Ye Zun is the root cause of his own destruction! THIS SHOW!!! <333"

Okay, this is COOL AF. Ye Zun, just don't blind people and you're gonna be fine. xD xD

[china_shop]

I don't know if either of them logically expect to be recognised (I think they both know about the timeloop), but yeah, there's still that irrational emotional hope/longing.

More lighthearted vs more punch-in-the-gut versions of the same moment. :D

Yes, exactly! (*laughing again at ZYL's hair shenanigans* :D :D :D)

[china_shop]

:D :D :D :D :D

[facethestrange]

Lol damn, how did I manage to miss this! Thank you for the quote! :D

"But that might be just her understanding. Maybe the Dial can transfer years from someone with a longer remaining lifespan to someone with a shorter one."

That could make sense too (it would still be going only in one direction), but I don't think it's the case because she's reading from the book from the Netherworld. It's not a direct quote, but I think she's just rephrasing, not interpreting, so I'd say 'older to younger' is indeed impossible.

So yeah, in the end the rules are just not directly transferable between the novel and the drama, and I like that they didn't even try, they just made up their own ~rules~. :D (Which are not rules at all because who even knows how the Hallows work, but that's a feature, not a bug. :D)

[facethestrange]

"I don't know if either of them logically expect to be recognised (I think they both know about the timeloop), but yeah, there's still that irrational emotional hope/longing."

Yeah, indeed, and then these lines are the moment when even this bit of hope is gone. Though again, for ZYL it's more lighthearted imo? Because he did fully expect DQ to remember him, and that's kinda still very fresh for him, so it's more 'hey, maybe someone else will remember me after all? unlikely but what if?' (especially someone with powers like SW, maybe he could see through time or something) vs Shen Wei's 'he can't possibly remember me, but I'm going to hope against hope anyway'.

SO MUCH LOVE for ZYL's hair shenanigans. :D ♡♡♡

[facethestrange]

Sooo I read this and went 'but doesn't Kunlun look heartbroken when he says that?', and it led to me going screencapping. xD And his expression is not all that different? (Before he gets mad at least. After is a different story.)




And then I just continued to see Shen Wei's expression, and I guess it isn't all that different either? (Excuse the subtitle from the next scene, this is one of the last frames.)




I don't have any points (other than maybe 'these conversations are even more similar than I thought'), I just have pictures. xD

[china_shop]

Ah, right.

So yeah, in the end the rules are just not directly transferable between the novel and the drama, and I like that they didn't even try, they just made up their own ~rules~. :D (Which are not rules at all because who even knows how the Hallows work, but that's a feature, not a bug. :D)

Yes, exactly! All the fixits and reinventions!! :D :D :D

[china_shop]

Though again, for ZYL it's more lighthearted imo?

It clearly is in the moment, yeah. I always think he must feel very unmoored later, though, when it's had time to sink in that he's so far from home and from a Shen Wei who ~knows~ him. At the mercy of the Hallows. Especially when he left the SID and Dragon City in such disarray.

[china_shop]

And his expression is not all that different? (Before he gets mad at least. After is a different story.)

Oh, huh, I see those as very different. The set of his mouth in those frames is similar, but the tension in his brow in the kitchen scene is completely absent in YOHE, and his eyes are pained in the kitchen scene, but shining and warm in YOHE. And I think it has to be different, because they're such different points on ZYL's character arc: in the kitchen, he is full-body absolutely "I'm not worth this" and unable to bear the thought of anyone loving sacrificing for him. But by YOHE, he's learned to accept love, and come to terms with the fact that love and sacrifice are intertwined (and specifically, that this is how things are between him and SW). He's no longer doubting his worthiness at all, not because he's masquerading as a famous general or even because he thinks he's so great, but because of who they are to each other up and down the timeline. You know? I think that's most evident in the way, after YOHE!SW says, "The life that I owe you, I'll definitely return it to you," ZYL stares up at him and gives the very very faintest of nods, like ohhhhhh I get it now, I get all of it, and then he laughs (at their fate and at his former lack of understanding, and the fact that now he knows what Shen Wei meant when he said it).

*watches this sequence, like, six billion more times* alksdfjalkdsfja;sdklfjas;dkfjas;dlfkjasd;fk

And then I just continued to see Shen Wei's expression, and I guess it isn't all that different either?

Ha, I see those as very different too: YOHE!SW with eyes widened in confusion, and kitchen!SW super deeply intensely staring, driven to admit part of his secret and ~willing~ ZYL to accept it.

(And then I compared YOHE!SW with kitchen!ZYL, and they're also different -- SW doesn't look upset like ZYL does; SW is just pure confusion.)

[facethestrange]

Yeah, just this scene (or several scenes). :) The overall situation is definitely pretty harrowing.

[facethestrange]

Yeah, as I said, I have no points, just pictures. :D I totally agree with pretty much everything, and your analysis is beautiful. ♡♡♡

"because of who they are to each other up and down the timeline"

!!! and

"he laughs (at their fate and at his former lack of understanding, and the fact that now he knows what Shen Wei meant when he said it)"

AW!! ♡

I think the one thing that I have specific feelings about is the one I started with - he still looks really sad to me when he says these specific words. After the look of realization and the laugh and the smile, he's just sad. (And his expression switches between the far crop and the close crop - I would love to see the progression of this instead!) But at the same time I can definitely also see the acceptance of it (the sadness and the sacrifice both, I guess, and the love too) vs the resistance to it in the kitchen scene! ♡

"*watches this sequence, like, six billion more times* alksdfjalkdsfja;sdklfjas;dkfjas;dlfkjasd;fk"

SAAAAAME. ♡♡♡

"(And then I compared YOHE!SW with kitchen!ZYL, and they're also different -- SW doesn't look upset like ZYL does; SW is just pure confusion.)"

Yeah, I looked at that too and decided they're very different from the beginning - ZYL is the most confused after he's already super agitated, and I think the only time anything could even be comparable at all is before that.