sid_guardian | Guardian Readalong: Chapters 15 and 16

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Guardian Readalong: Chapters 15 and 16

Welcome to this week’s installment of the Guardian novel readalong!

(If you’re just joining us or need to catch up, here are last week’s chapters and you can find all previous chapter discussions on the schedule post or via the !readalong tag.)

This week we’re looking at:

Chapter 15: Zhao Yunlan’s gastritis flares. Shen Wei takes him home without needing to be told where Zhao Yunlan lives. The Yanluo Court sends Zhao Yunlan The Book of Life and Death. Shen Wei gets a look at the interior of Zhao Yunlan’s apartment and arrives the next day with groceries.
Chapter 16: Shen Wei cooks and cleans for Zhao Yunlan. Zhao Yunlan seems sure he’ll win over Shen Wei even after he’s rejected yet again.

These events correspond with Chapters 24 and 25 of the Chinese version on JJWXC and the fan translation.

Excerpts:

Shen Wei scanned the room without comment. There was a shirt, a pair of pants, and knit vest on the sofa. The bed was covered with a variety of books, with a laptop in sleep mode underneath them. All in all it was a masterpiece of a mess with barely any clear space to set foot.

Zhao Yunlan apologized quickly, casually unearthing a spot on the sofa to sit. Before he could straighten up, a fresh wave of pain started in his belly.

“Don’t worry about all that.” Shen Wei set the takeout on the coffee table, sighed, then began moving the books on the bed. “Where do you normally put all this?”

“On the bed during the day, then on the floor at night.”

After a brief pause of stunned silence, Shen Wei quickly sorted the books into two piles, after which he freed up some space on the equally disastrous desk and put the books there. Finally, he moved the computer to the nightstand. “Now lie down, and I’ll go pour you some water… Where is your water?”

That was always the way of things with the current Ten Yanluo Kings. The bureaucracy was even more impenetrable than that of the Mortal Realm. If there was nothing in it for them, they wouldn’t rouse themselves to action; if anything happened, they’d drag things out. It was incredibly annoying. The Soul-Guarding Order and the Netherworld had bumped heads many times over the years, putting Zhao Yunlan in a constant tug-of-war with them while having to simultaneously work with them.

Then Shen Wei grabbed his wrist. Zhao Yunlan was caught off guard and instinctively tried to pull free, but couldn’t break Shen Wei’s grip.

It was the second time that had happened. The first time had been on that roof at Dragon City University when Shen Wei had dragged him back up with only the strength of his arms. Shen Wei didn’t have the weak hands of an academic. Instead, they were icy cold and frighteningly strong, callused between the thumb and pointer finger – not the kind of calluses that resulted from too much time using a mouse.

Zhao Yunlan studied him, unable to believe that someone so beautiful, such a joy for the eyes and mind alike, was such a pedantic old scholar at heart. “Just because someone’s straight doesn’t mean they’ll find a suitable partner. Getting married doesn’t guarantee being able to have a child. Having a kid doesn’t mean they’ll make it to adulthood, and if they do, you have no way of knowing what they’ll be like when they grow up. Where the sense in taking such a huge gamble, investing in such a high-risk product just so it can bring honor upon your family and take care of you in your old age? You’re better off buying a lottery ticket. If you really like kids, you can sponsor a few needy children. Then during the holidays there’ll be someone willing to come see you.”

Questions:

What was going through Shen Wei’s mind when he saw Zhao Yunlan’s home and how Zhao Yunlan took care of himself? How do you think Zhao Yunlan navigated maintaining that professional balance with the Netherworld over the years? What does Zhao Yunlan’s thoughts on children suggest about his own experiences with family? What are your favorite parts of these two chapters?

These questions are just starting off points. Feel free to talk about whatever stood out to you in the chapters and/or your thoughts on how the events compare to the gastritis rescue and subsequent cooking and cleaning in the drama.

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I love these two chapters for so many reasons.

For starters in Chapter 15, Shen Wei slips up when it’s time to take Zhao Yunlan home because he forgets to hide that he knows where Zhao Yunlan lives. (In both the novel and the drama, Shen Wei struggles with deception where Zhao Yunlan is concerned.) It leaves me wondering just how many times Shen Wei might have passed Zhao Yunlan’s building, stood outside his door, etc. (He definitely didn’t go inside but I’ll talk more about that in a minute.)

Zhao Yunlan, sick though he may be, picks up on this and recognizes Shen Wei’s been ~~stalking~~ looking into him. And while he does consider that maybe Shen Wei would be calling backup to deal with him he also has an Or… moment where he lets himself wonder if maybe Shen Wei had other intentions.

(Also, he’s totally not freaked out by Shen Wei’s stalker tendencies. These two are perfect for each other.)
Chapter 15 also gives us more insight into how Zhao Yunlan lives and we get to see Shen Wei’s first impressions as well. The “earthquake” when Shen Wei first gets a look inside makes me think he wasn’t all that impressed.

There are the descriptions of clutter (except for the pristine, never-used kitchen) but we also get other details, including Zhao Yunlan’s lack of socks, which snapped Shen Wei out of his flustered reaction to Zhao Yunlan’s scandalous pajama top. It’s clear Shen Wei isn’t impressed by Zhao Yunlan’s explanation that skipping socks helps cut down on laundry. He’s even less impressed by the fact that Zhao Yunlan had only consumed bread and alcohol prior to going out for takeaway.

It’s very clear that Zhao Yunlan really isn’t taking care of himself and Shen Wei even goes so far as to proposing Zhao Yunlan find himself a caretaker. (Poor Shen Wei, you wandered right into Zhao Yunlan’s, “I considered you, but you declined.”

Shen Wei bolts, but then comes back later with bags of groceries (which is kind of the opposite of what you need to do to establish a boundary and make it clear you’re not going to be the much-needed caretaker).
Chapter 16 is shorter, but we still get some great scenes, including Shen Wei’s explanation that he was making food because “It’s what friends should do,”only to then caress Zhao Yunlan’s face while he slept in a manner that perhaps suggests something in addition to friendship keeping Shen Wei in the disaster of an apartment.

Zhao Yunlan falls asleep and wakes to find Shen Wei has not only cooked but cleaned. We learn that Zhao Yunlan couldn’t remember the last time he’d woken up to the smell of home coking and the sound of someone urging him to go wash up.

I realize he’s a grown man, but I feel bad for Zhao Yunlan here. These two chapters reveal just how bad he is at taking care of himself and while there’s some definite humor in the descriptions, it’s also indicative of a lack of concern for himself.

We get some of this in the drama (Zhao Yunlan waking up surprised to find food and a tidied home) but while in the drama, Zhao Yunlan uses the situation to ~~flirt~~ push Shen Wei to join the SID, in the novel Zhao Yunlan goes straight for what he wants, which is Shen Wei (and not in a professional context).
Shen Wei turns him down again, telling Zhao Yunlan he should find a wife and have children, thus leading to Zhao Yunlan’s speech in the excerpt about family. He makes some really good points about how getting married and having children are no guarantees for happiness. At the same time, this speech goes beyond his earlier explanation that he could live in a retirement home. Does Zhao Yunlan feel like he maybe didn’t turn out how his parents had hoped?

Of course Shen Wei has to bail after this but Zhao Yunlan isn’t worried and instead eats his steaming hot food, comforted in heart and stomach.

What was going through Shen Wei’s mind when he saw Zhao Yunlan’s home and how Zhao Yunlan took care of himself?

Pure horror, lol. But if Zhao Yunlan won’t take care of himself, Shen Wei is taking things into his own hands.
I believe Zhao Yunlan’s issue is less an inability to care for himself, but rather unwillingness – he just doesn’t think it’s important or worth the time and effort. Obviously, to Shen Wei he is worth every effort.

I’m still grinding my teeth at the retcon, but I actually like the progression here: Shen Wei has thoroughly rejected Zhao Yunlan, but now his actions don’t match his words. Cooking and cleaning he can maybe present as platonic; but he researched where Zhao Yunlan lives, and watches him sleep. How could Zhao Yunlan not be intrigued(mutual stalker romace)?

What does Zhao Yunlan’s thoughts on children suggest about his own experiences with family?

Good question! Clearly he knows that sharing blood is no guarantee for a close relationship. At the same time, he himself does take care of his parents, including his father whom he isn’t on the best terms with.

Later in the story

he tries to exorcise Shennong-bo out of his father. He also makes arrangements for someone to care for his parents should he die.

This little speech reminds me of his conversation with his father where he also explains that queer people can, in fact, be happy in live.

What does Zhao Yunlan’s thoughts on children suggest about his own experiences with family?
Even without getting into his own family, he's probably seen more than his share of messed-up families (and most immediately, Li Qian's messed-up family) working as a cop. (Was he an ordinary cop before he became the Guardian?) But I suspect Yunlan has heard a bit about how he's a disappointment and doesn't come home enough and possibly even on the specific topic of "where are the grandchildren, we're not getting any younger here".

(Now I'm curious - I've seen "you'll end your family line, two men can't have children together" cited as the basis for a lot of Fictional Homophobia. Is that a factor in Real Homophobia?)

but also in our particular fictional setting: we can't take anything Shen Wei has to say on the topic of why he will or won't date Yunlan at face value, because of Spoiler; the answer (at this point) is No and he will say what he needs to, even while he watches Yunlan from a small distance.

I believe Zhao Yunlan’s issue is less an inability to care for himself, but rather unwillingness – he just doesn’t think it’s important or worth the time and effort.

Oh absolutely! He could but doesn't prioritize it.

he researched where Zhao Yunlan lives, and watches him sleep. How could Zhao Yunlan not be intrigued(mutual stalker romace)?

They are absolutely freak for freak (and therefore perfect for each other).

Even without getting into his own family, he's probably seen more than his share of messed-up families (and most immediately, Li Qian's messed-up family) working as a cop.
Ooh! Good point - I didn't consider what he might have seen in his job, but that makes a lot of sense.

we can't take anything Shen Wei has to say on the topic of why he will or won't date Yunlan at face value

At this point, I don't think Zhao Yunlan is taking anything Shen Wei says about dating him at face value either XD

At this point, I don't think Zhao Yunlan is taking anything Shen Wei says about dating him at face value either XD

"You deserve a proper family life with children" is a very different statement from "I don't want to date you", for sure.

What was going through Shen Wei’s mind when he saw Zhao Yunlan’s home and how Zhao Yunlan took care of himself?

I'm not sure there was much room left for thought between all the internal headdesking I'm sure he was doing! *g*

What does Zhao Yunlan’s thoughts on children suggest about his own experiences with family?

He doesn't sound like he has any desire for family at all, so it does make me wonder just how disconnected he feels from his own. It makes a lot of sense to me what the drama added with Zhao Xinci; it fits in perfectly with what his mindset seems to be here.

Some reading notes from me:

I love how closely the drama mirrors the beginning of chapter 15, with Shen Wei suddenly appearing (here: returning) to take care of Zhao Yunlan! And I'm delighted to find out that the taxi scene was specifically added for the drama - perfection; they really knew what they were doing!

Zhao Yunlan finally managed to catch a breath. Where was all this energy when he was getting mugged?

Hee! I love that seeming contradiction, too. And all the things Zhao Yunlan picks up on during these chapters, about Shen Wei not being quite what he seems. (Even if he doesn't take his suspicion very far; looks to me like he's slotted Shen Wei so firmly into the "love interest" role, he wants to interpret everything through that angle. But I love how unbothered he is by Shen Wei potentially stalking him.)

Shen Wei startled. Under the ghostly white streetlight, there was so little color in his cheeks that he could have been sculpted from snow. Zhao Yunlan seemed to have realized something. A disbelieving look flashed across his sweat-drenched face. The air between them was suddenly charged.

♥ ♥ ♥

He startled, as though someone had struck his heart with a riding crop and made it break into a full gallop

That is such a fantastic description!

“On the bed during the day, then on the floor at night.”

He's moving this stuff twice every day?! Wow, clearly Zhao Yunlan is very far from having reached peak efficiency in his laziness, that is way more work than I'd be willing to do ...

The garbage was essentially empty, with nothing inside but some torn-up bread packaging with an expiry date a week in the past. The fridge, upon investigation, was just as empty. There was only half a bag of cat food. Every pot and pan, piece of equipment, and appliance was brand new; some even still had their tags. Not a single cockroach could have survived in that pristine kitchen. It was practically a showroom model.

Huh, that conveys a much neater, tidier image than the drama represents! I love the stacked dishes and orange rinds in Zhao Yunlan's kitchen in the drama, and also the stinky fridge. *g*

The unused appliances are a great touch, but otherwise I'm not sure what to think about that pristine kitchen - surely there'd be old takeout boxes and such things, even if Zhao Yunlan never uses actual plates or bowls? Maybe novel!ZYL spends a lot less time at home than drama!ZYL, and rarely eats there at all.

“I considered you, but you declined.”

That is such a good line, as a comeback!

Most humans in the Mortal Realm who could communicate with the dead had their sights set too high to pay attention to the little reapers of the Netherworld. This Guardian was more courteous than anyone else. Even if important, serious business slipped his mind, he never forgot these small formalities.

That's a lovely character note!

In fact, I’ve suggested it to the Netherworld many times.” Zhao Yunlan casually flipped through the notebook in his hand, faking a smile. “But nothing ever came of it, so I thought the materials might be hard to find or that the Lords might have some other plans.”

Ha! Just like all of Shen Wei's suggestions for improvements in Dixing, in the drama!

His features jammed, stuck between “man-eating” and “spring has sprung.”
If one had to describe it, they might say it bore an uncanny likeness to the Nian monster.

LOLOLOLOLOL!

“So you’re here to repay me?”
After a pause, Shen Wei said, with some difficulty, “It’s what friends should do.”

Fascinating!!!

<Zhao Yunlan had moved out too young. His lifestyle was one of going out and rushing to social events or casually calling for takeout. He couldn’t remember the last time he’d woken up to the smell of home cooking and the sound of someone urging him to go wash up.

Awwwww!

“Shen Wei, look at me. Look right at me and say it again. Tell me you don’t like me.”
When Shen Wei abruptly looked up, the usual gentleness in his eyes was gone. Backed into a corner, he spoke almost harshly. “A man’s role is to marry a wife and have children. You’re still so young. You shouldn’t go against the natural order of things and human nature. It’s absurd.”

OMG, Shen Wei!!!! WTF! All right, now I'm at "these two arseholes deserve each other", LOL.

Very low, Shen Wei said, “There aren’t that many times where a person can freely give in to their desires.”

“Exactly!” Zhao Yunlan spread his hands. “Other people will deny you things. Are you going to deny yourself things too? What’s the point in living, then? Why not just die and get it over with?”

Ouch, ouch, ouch for Shen Wei's line, and another triple ouch for Zhao Yunlan's!

We have plenty of time, he thought confidently. You can’t run.

But I still very much don't like this attitude, AT ALL. *grumbles*

It leaves me wondering just how many times Shen Wei might have passed Zhao Yunlan’s building, stood outside his door, etc.

Yeah, true, he must have! Poor Shen Wei.

(Also, he’s totally not freaked out by Shen Wei’s stalker tendencies. These two are perfect for each other.)

I'm very much a fan of this! These two really are best when they're equally weird about each other. ♥

The “earthquake” when Shen Wei first gets a look inside makes me think he wasn’t all that impressed.

I'm not sure I see the connection? Wasn't the earthquake because of the Mountain-River Awl? (See: Something had surfaced into the world, which is what everyone in the Underworld was worrying about with the Awl, at the end of chapter 13.)

Even without getting into his own family, he's probably seen more than his share of messed-up families (and most immediately, Li Qian's messed-up family)

That is such a good point! Especially the Li Qian situation must be fresh in his mind.

the answer (at this point) is No and he will say what he needs to

Yeah, absolutely, but I wonder what it says about him that "I can't have you" comes out as "you should get married and have kids", rather than any of the million things other he might have said ...

I believe Zhao Yunlan’s issue is less an inability to care for himself, but rather unwillingness

Yeah, agreed - I don't think he literally CAN'T, he just can't be arsed. And also, part of him wants to be taken care of, so doing it himself is like the opposite of what he wants. *g*

This little speech reminds me of his conversation with his father where he also explains that queer people can, in fact, be happy in live.

Oh, that's a fascinating comparison! Do you think it expresses a similar attitude, or have his views changed significantly in between?

part of him wants to be taken care of, so doing it himself is like the opposite of what he wants.

Haha, yes, exactly.

Do you think it expresses a similar attitude, or have his views changed significantly in between?

I think it’s fundamentally the same sentiment from different angles, or maybe defending against two different lines of attack. There is the You’ll face discrimination angle and the You won’t have (biological) children angle, but the answer is the same: It’s fine, I can deal with it, there are ways around it. I’m not giving up on love because of this.

Now I'm curious - I've seen "you'll end your family line, two men can't have children together" cited as the basis for a lot of Fictional Homophobia. Is that a factor in Real Homophobia?

Yes. Some people consider having children the main, if not only, purpose of romantic relationships/sex/marriage. A couple that cannot produce children is therefore invalid at best and sinful at worst. In Christianity-dominated cultures at least, this is/was a common attitude, but other cultures have it as well. It would be interesting to know what exactly this is like in a Chinese cultural context.
On a personal level, some parents just don’t react well to the realization they won’t have grandchildren.

That's fascinating, then, that he's already at "won't give up on love" this early! Especially since he barely knows (the real) Shen Wei at this point.

My (very unqualified) impression is that historically, in China there was more of a strain of "fine, you can have same-sex partners for now, but ultimately you need to settle down and marry and have kids." All heteronormativity.

Interesting! So the modern equivalent would be something like You can play around in college, but you better fall in line afterwards?

Yeah, that feels pretty similar!

"He's moving this stuff twice every day?! Wow, clearly Zhao Yunlan is very far from having reached peak efficiency in his laziness, that is way more work than I'd be willing to do ..."

This made me laugh out loud - so true. Most of my efficiency is to do with being too lazy to do things the inefficient way.

I like Zhao's attitude to A & E - they'll just torture me, tell me what I know already, and give me the same pills as before" - often true.

There were a few things that made me laugh out loud in this chapter. Shen Wei not thinking anyone lived in a known residential area was one of them. Love Zhao's honesty - "I got black-out drunk ..." And trying to make a face "for welcoming the arrival of spring"!

I love that he has the front to ask "Do you really not like me?" And Shen Wei's so old-fashioned response ... over-think, much?

And I cheered in my heart Zhao's defence of a child-free existence - dismissed as "preposterous reasoning" but with no actual counter-arguments.

Is it normal to take medicine with hot or warm water?

Hee, yes! I always felt that was what laziness was all about!

Yeah, one thing I really appreciate about priest's writing is how funny it can be!

And I cheered in my heart Zhao's defence of a child-free existence

Yeah, completely agreed.

Is it normal to take medicine with hot or warm water?

I believe traditional Chinese wisdom is that you should always be drinking warm water rather than cold.

The shaking lasted for what felt like an unusually long time. It wasn’t terribly strong, but it seemed to go on forever. An unspeakable feeling welled up in Zhao Yunlan’s chest—the sensation of jerking awake after stumbling in a midnight dream, heart skipping a beat.

Something…

Something had surfaced into the world.

It might well be the Awl, but given ZYL's reaction, I kind of read it as being the first inklings of Kunlun? Idk!

For starters in Chapter 15, Shen Wei slips up when it’s time to take Zhao Yunlan home because he forgets to hide that he knows where Zhao Yunlan lives.

Haha, yes, that's brilliantly done. I love it. :D

(which is kind of the opposite of what you need to do to establish a boundary and make it clear you’re not going to be the much-needed caretaker).

LOL!! So true! But he can't delegate to Daqing here, and someone has to take care of ZYL!! :D :D :D

I realize he’s a grown man, but I feel bad for Zhao Yunlan here. These two chapters reveal just how bad he is at taking care of himself and while there’s some definite humor in the descriptions, it’s also indicative of a lack of concern for himself.

Agreed! He must be fairly resilient, because he mostly seems to function in a work capacity, but wow, what a disaster. *pets*

I believe Zhao Yunlan’s issue is less an inability to care for himself, but rather unwillingness – he just doesn’t think it’s important or worth the time and effort.

Yes, 100% agreed. In the drama at least, he's convinced the job will eventually kill him, so why waste time making his life nice and enjoyable when that would just make dying worse?

What do you mean by the retcon? (Sorry, clearly I'm not keeping up with everything. /o\)

At the same time, he himself does take care of his parents, including his father whom he isn’t on the best terms with.

I can't remember how much that's driven by feeling and how much it's basic filial duty/responsibility. Probably some of both, but if he didn't do it, it would be hard to frame him as a good guy, maybe? Even drama!Zhao Yunlan who loathes his father has some filial feeling.

I suspect it's more "I'll live however I want, and it's not difficult to rationalise why it won't be a problem"? Idk.

but I wonder what it says about him that "I can't have you" comes out as "you should get married and have kids", rather than any of the million things other he might have said ...

I thought it was "I want you taken care of, and also, I want you off-limits so I can stop being so tempted"?

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Guardian Readalong: Chapters 15 and 16

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