Ahhh, what a fabulous post! So many of your little observations and asides made me laugh, and your screen caps are really really great. <3 <3 <3 - AHH I’m so glad you enjoyed the post and it made you laugh :D
I find this episode and the next one super confusing, partly because Chu Shuzhi's behaviour is so OTT and at first I read that as an indication it was a dream, but no. He's just Being Like That A Lot, in dream and out. (Also, the way he seems to suddenly switch from Dixing to Haixing after Changcheng is struck down! So confusing!) So thanks for untangling it a bit! <333 (I hope one day someone will make a timeline/outline of the entire dream sequence, because I feel like there might be dreams within dreams sometimes, but I might be wrong? Idk!!) - The whole ChuGuo dream arc is definitely very confusing! I think in this episode Chu Shuzhi tells the twins story reversed, then in 33 he tells the actual story. I added the idea of making a timeline/outline to my WIP list XD I can’t promise I’ll ever finish it but that’s such a good idea!
Yes, good point! I don't think he'd have sent Changcheng into Zhu Hong's dream unprotected, not even with Zhao Yunlan there. He'd have felt too responsible if something had happened. - I agree. I don’t think he’d have sent Changcheng in if he thought it was far too dangerous.
I'm not sure either. Usually Ye Zun has to eat people to gain their power, so maybe this is a threat? Like, "Do a better job, or I'll eat you and do it myself!"? - Agree! Showing him light consequences, as it were, before bad ones occur. Oh Ye Zun XD
Maybe she's pleased with the self-criticism Changcheng wrote her, and feeling smug for having evaded/delegated the punishment? - OH I bet you’re right! I didn’t even think of that, even though I talked about the self-criticism! Awesome insight.
Hee! I think he's hoping for something salacious, too, the perv. Or maybe just desperate for good material to tease ZYL with? - Oh I think D, all of the above XD Gossip, pervy and teasing ZYL!
YES, PLEASE, CAN WE? (Has he been taking sprawling lessons from ZYL? *g*) - LOL HE SURE HAS.
LOL, I feel like all his political smarts and diplomacy have gone out the window since Shen Wei's been missing. Zhao Yunlan, you can manage Minister Gao better than this!! Zhao Yunlan outright threatens him at the end, there, which is not an advisable way to talk to your superiors, even when they're being very wrong!! /o\ (I suppose Minister Gao wanting to scapegoat Chu Shuzhi pushes a lot of the Zhao Xinci buttons again.) - Oooh such a good point. He knows how to play by the rules and has just discarded them! But I agree, I think it pushes a lot of ZXC buttons for ZYL!
Agreed! I think he's feeling self-conscious and dreadful. The leak has brought up so many old feelings for him, including epic shame at not protecting Nianzhi, and no one else could ever understand. *pets him very carefully* - Yes, to everything you said here! Such yes!
This was another reason I got confused about the dreams -- because this is such a marked contrast with Zhao Yunlan's bad temper at the DoS, and it's just like the start of Changcheng's dream... Is it supposed to be a deliberate misdirect, I wonder? It definitely made me more unsure about what was dream and what wasn't.
But this isn't, so I'm wondering how his mood gets turned around. Via defiance and a resolve to keep the team bolstered and ticking over? - Oh what an interesting thought. I never initially read this as a dream, it was just very confusing that he was so spry/happy/upbeat, but it I can see how it mirrors Guo Changcheng’s dream! But I agree I think since he’s protected Chu Shuzhi, as it were, he’s feeling more positive in the moment.
I wondered whether Ya Qing had added in some (fake or exaggerated) dirt on Nianzhi, and that was part of what had got Chu Shuzhi so very worked up... - Oh. That would be interesting to explore in a fic :D I could definitely see Ya Qing making it worse, to switch the focus from Ye Zun and his forces as a massive deflection/misdirection on who the real enemy is.
HEE! *hearts you* It's such a great line/observation! (And it's so dramatic, because he can be very gentle, you know, especially with Changcheng? But his defence mechanism is so often grumpiness and violence. Understandably!) And I really like Zhao Yunlan talking to him reasonably, acknowledging his feelings and counseling him. This is the mature, capable leader Zhao Yunlan, not the frustrated hothead. ♥ - I love that ZYL is talking to him in that reasonable way as well! And the counseling, yes! Ah the team fam feels here. It is definitely mature capable ZYL which is always awesome to see :D
It's so good!!!!!!! It's like when Zhu Hong is openly jealous of the SW/ZYL relationship. The whole team knows!! :D :D :D - THE WHOLE TEAM KNOWS! XD XD
(I was just thinking that Chu Shuzhi offering to bring Shen Wei back is kind of like a temptation dream for Zhao Yunlan. He doesn't need the Master of Nightmares to torment him; he has the RL thing! *pets him*) - OH yes! That would be a great temptation dream. It would be interesting to see everyone’s Nightmare Master dreams, so much heart ache in them.
I find the contrast between this journey to Dixing and the later dream journey really interesting. Like, here Chu Shuzhi's affect is flat and unenthusiastic about going to Dixing, but later, in the dream, Dixing is where he locates his happy ever after with Changcheng and Nianzhi. He really does still have a lot of "home" feelings about it. - He really does have a lot of “home” feelings, such agreement there. Yes, he’s found a new family, as it were, with the SID and Changcheng, but there’s still always that missing piece without his brother, and also Dixing too. My brain always fills the blanks in with Chu Shuzhi pushing aside those feelings for the last 3 years, his brother, Dixing, but here now, when faced with the portal he has to confront all those things.
I was wondering if it was the smell of imprisonment and subjugation? This was where he was tortured, I think? - Ohhh that’s such a good thought. Yes. Now I am having the feels again for Chu Shuzhi! I mean I always do, but more so now.
He has zero time for the Regent, and no compunction about showing it!! I wonder what Shen Wei or Zhao Yunlan would think of him being so open about his attitude, given he represents both of them in different ways. Even if neither of the leaders likes the Regent, they do/might have to work with him in the future. - I think both Shen Wei and Zhao Yunlan might wish him to be a bit more diplomatic, yes XD Not quite so open with his hatred of the Regent/dismissive of the Regent. I mean sure we all want to burn bridges with the Regent, but not quite yet.
Regent: Isn't your Chief Zhao his good friend? Doesn't he know [where Hei Pao Shi is]? CSZ: If you don't know, then just say it. No need to trap me with your questions.
Is Chu Shuzhi actually saying, "I'm not going to out them to you, even if you bait me!" here?! - I do feel like the Regent is baiting Chu Shuzhi with that line. I’m not sure I read it as ‘I’m not going to out them to you, even if you bait me!’. I think my brain parsed it more like: I’m not playing these games with you so get on with it.
I'm so confused about puppet Nianzhi. Is it a different puppet from the one(s) Chu Shuzhi had before? Are his little puppet that appeared in Zhu Hong's dream, and his bigger puppet he had at the mah jong game separate, or one that changes shape? I need to know!!! *g* And does Ye Zun have the Nianzhi one? (I think I've been wrongly assuming that his regular puppet is Nianzhi... oops.) - OH! I meant to bring this up to, but I had put in so many other words I forgot. I TOO HAD this same thought. I thought they were the same?! But I do think after rewatching it they are two different puppet/dolls. I think I too also assumed regular puppet was Nianzhi, but after rewatching the episode it does seem like Ye Zun has Nianzhi’s last living place/Nianzhi’s actual puppet. I think there are three puppets altogether. Big puppet, small puppet (though perhaps he has multiple small puppets?!), and then Nianzhi’s puppet. It is so very confusing LOL. I always wondered if he also built/carved his own puppet/dolls, or are they heirlooms/relics? Perhaps both!
That's such a great point, yesss! He's so conflicted about Changcheng being there, wants to protect him, but also finds him comforting, and still utterly trusts him. <3 <3 <3 - YES to everything you said here! So conflicted, but also glad because he’s not alone? But also wants to protect him from the dangers of Dixing, the Regent, Ye Zun, in some ways Chu Shuzhi himself, or perhaps the danger that Chu Shuzhi will have to go into. Maybe both XD
*cries forever and ever and ever* - I’ll just cry with you. So much my heart. So much.
Ahhh, I missed that. OH BABY!! <3 <3 <3 - I will not say how many times I have watched this particular scene to spot it, but yes! XD
I wonder if he can mould the victim's projection? Like, the victim generates the dream, and the Nightmare Master shapes it the way he wants, and sometimes steps into a role. - OH, yes, that’s an interesting thought, yes! I like that, that it’s kind of like on autopilot until he steps into the role and tries to direct things. I love this HC!
Thank you for the explanations of the childhood flashbacks -- I get so confused about which twin is which!! - So confusing XD LOL.
I'm unsure about that, too. He wakes up in the SID, and he's sitting at his desk. Zhao Yunlan doesn't seem surprised to see him there, and speaks as if Chu Shuzhi has just been reporting back, but why would Chu Shuzhi be sitting at his desk for that? It's weird! - It is definitely weird! But we can definitely hand wave it to Nightmare Master antics XD XD
I think it was a "that's all I'm going to tell you" look. I think the Regent doesn't want to get on Ye Zun's bad side, so he's prevaricating like the weasel he is. - He is such a weasel, yes XD
I can't decide between the confrontation with ZYL in the park in ep 20, with the villain monologuing, and when he invades the SID in ep 34. But there might be others I don't remember, too. - I do love episode 20 :D YES. And 34 as well :D I’m right there with you!
I'm super confused, too. I hope someone will do a scene discussion post on this one day. In the meantime, I think the actual real version is what Chu Shuzhi tells unconscious(?) Changcheng in the SID lab, next episode. - I agree. I think Chu Shuzhi is telling the truth when Guo Changcheng is unconscious!! But it is so so so confusing. XD XD XD
THANK YOU so much for taking the time out to read my lengthy post and commenting such lovely things! I know you added a second comment which I will definitely respond to tomorrow when RL isn’t chomping on me so intensely!
no subject
I find this episode and the next one super confusing, partly because Chu Shuzhi's behaviour is so OTT and at first I read that as an indication it was a dream, but no. He's just Being Like That A Lot, in dream and out. (Also, the way he seems to suddenly switch from Dixing to Haixing after Changcheng is struck down! So confusing!) So thanks for untangling it a bit! <333 (I hope one day someone will make a timeline/outline of the entire dream sequence, because I feel like there might be dreams within dreams sometimes, but I might be wrong? Idk!!) - The whole ChuGuo dream arc is definitely very confusing! I think in this episode Chu Shuzhi tells the twins story reversed, then in 33 he tells the actual story. I added the idea of making a timeline/outline to my WIP list XD I can’t promise I’ll ever finish it but that’s such a good idea!
Yes, good point! I don't think he'd have sent Changcheng into Zhu Hong's dream unprotected, not even with Zhao Yunlan there. He'd have felt too responsible if something had happened. - I agree. I don’t think he’d have sent Changcheng in if he thought it was far too dangerous.
I'm not sure either. Usually Ye Zun has to eat people to gain their power, so maybe this is a threat? Like, "Do a better job, or I'll eat you and do it myself!"? - Agree! Showing him light consequences, as it were, before bad ones occur. Oh Ye Zun XD
Maybe she's pleased with the self-criticism Changcheng wrote her, and feeling smug for having evaded/delegated the punishment? - OH I bet you’re right! I didn’t even think of that, even though I talked about the self-criticism! Awesome insight.
Hee! I think he's hoping for something salacious, too, the perv. Or maybe just desperate for good material to tease ZYL with? - Oh I think D, all of the above XD Gossip, pervy and teasing ZYL!
YES, PLEASE, CAN WE? (Has he been taking sprawling lessons from ZYL? *g*) - LOL HE SURE HAS.
LOL, I feel like all his political smarts and diplomacy have gone out the window since Shen Wei's been missing. Zhao Yunlan, you can manage Minister Gao better than this!! Zhao Yunlan outright threatens him at the end, there, which is not an advisable way to talk to your superiors, even when they're being very wrong!! /o\ (I suppose Minister Gao wanting to scapegoat Chu Shuzhi pushes a lot of the Zhao Xinci buttons again.) - Oooh such a good point. He knows how to play by the rules and has just discarded them! But I agree, I think it pushes a lot of ZXC buttons for ZYL!
Agreed! I think he's feeling self-conscious and dreadful. The leak has brought up so many old feelings for him, including epic shame at not protecting Nianzhi, and no one else could ever understand. *pets him very carefully* - Yes, to everything you said here! Such yes!
This was another reason I got confused about the dreams -- because this is such a marked contrast with Zhao Yunlan's bad temper at the DoS, and it's just like the start of Changcheng's dream... Is it supposed to be a deliberate misdirect, I wonder? It definitely made me more unsure about what was dream and what wasn't.
But this isn't, so I'm wondering how his mood gets turned around. Via defiance and a resolve to keep the team bolstered and ticking over? - Oh what an interesting thought. I never initially read this as a dream, it was just very confusing that he was so spry/happy/upbeat, but it I can see how it mirrors Guo Changcheng’s dream! But I agree I think since he’s protected Chu Shuzhi, as it were, he’s feeling more positive in the moment.
I wondered whether Ya Qing had added in some (fake or exaggerated) dirt on Nianzhi, and that was part of what had got Chu Shuzhi so very worked up... - Oh. That would be interesting to explore in a fic :D I could definitely see Ya Qing making it worse, to switch the focus from Ye Zun and his forces as a massive deflection/misdirection on who the real enemy is.
HEE! *hearts you* It's such a great line/observation! (And it's so dramatic, because he can be very gentle, you know, especially with Changcheng? But his defence mechanism is so often grumpiness and violence. Understandably!) And I really like Zhao Yunlan talking to him reasonably, acknowledging his feelings and counseling him. This is the mature, capable leader Zhao Yunlan, not the frustrated hothead. ♥ - I love that ZYL is talking to him in that reasonable way as well! And the counseling, yes! Ah the team fam feels here. It is definitely mature capable ZYL which is always awesome to see :D
It's so good!!!!!!! It's like when Zhu Hong is openly jealous of the SW/ZYL relationship. The whole team knows!! :D :D :D - THE WHOLE TEAM KNOWS! XD XD
(I was just thinking that Chu Shuzhi offering to bring Shen Wei back is kind of like a temptation dream for Zhao Yunlan. He doesn't need the Master of Nightmares to torment him; he has the RL thing! *pets him*) - OH yes! That would be a great temptation dream. It would be interesting to see everyone’s Nightmare Master dreams, so much heart ache in them.
I find the contrast between this journey to Dixing and the later dream journey really interesting. Like, here Chu Shuzhi's affect is flat and unenthusiastic about going to Dixing, but later, in the dream, Dixing is where he locates his happy ever after with Changcheng and Nianzhi. He really does still have a lot of "home" feelings about it. - He really does have a lot of “home” feelings, such agreement there. Yes, he’s found a new family, as it were, with the SID and Changcheng, but there’s still always that missing piece without his brother, and also Dixing too. My brain always fills the blanks in with Chu Shuzhi pushing aside those feelings for the last 3 years, his brother, Dixing, but here now, when faced with the portal he has to confront all those things.
I was wondering if it was the smell of imprisonment and subjugation? This was where he was tortured, I think? - Ohhh that’s such a good thought. Yes. Now I am having the feels again for Chu Shuzhi! I mean I always do, but more so now.
He has zero time for the Regent, and no compunction about showing it!! I wonder what Shen Wei or Zhao Yunlan would think of him being so open about his attitude, given he represents both of them in different ways. Even if neither of the leaders likes the Regent, they do/might have to work with him in the future. - I think both Shen Wei and Zhao Yunlan might wish him to be a bit more diplomatic, yes XD Not quite so open with his hatred of the Regent/dismissive of the Regent. I mean sure we all want to burn bridges with the Regent, but not quite yet.
Regent: Isn't your Chief Zhao his good friend? Doesn't he know [where Hei Pao Shi is]?
CSZ: If you don't know, then just say it. No need to trap me with your questions.
Is Chu Shuzhi actually saying, "I'm not going to out them to you, even if you bait me!" here?! - I do feel like the Regent is baiting Chu Shuzhi with that line. I’m not sure I read it as ‘I’m not going to out them to you, even if you bait me!’. I think my brain parsed it more like: I’m not playing these games with you so get on with it.
I'm so confused about puppet Nianzhi. Is it a different puppet from the one(s) Chu Shuzhi had before? Are his little puppet that appeared in Zhu Hong's dream, and his bigger puppet he had at the mah jong game separate, or one that changes shape? I need to know!!! *g* And does Ye Zun have the Nianzhi one? (I think I've been wrongly assuming that his regular puppet is Nianzhi... oops.) - OH! I meant to bring this up to, but I had put in so many other words I forgot. I TOO HAD this same thought. I thought they were the same?! But I do think after rewatching it they are two different puppet/dolls. I think I too also assumed regular puppet was Nianzhi, but after rewatching the episode it does seem like Ye Zun has Nianzhi’s last living place/Nianzhi’s actual puppet. I think there are three puppets altogether. Big puppet, small puppet (though perhaps he has multiple small puppets?!), and then Nianzhi’s puppet. It is so very confusing LOL. I always wondered if he also built/carved his own puppet/dolls, or are they heirlooms/relics? Perhaps both!
That's such a great point, yesss! He's so conflicted about Changcheng being there, wants to protect him, but also finds him comforting, and still utterly trusts him. <3 <3 <3 - YES to everything you said here! So conflicted, but also glad because he’s not alone? But also wants to protect him from the dangers of Dixing, the Regent, Ye Zun, in some ways Chu Shuzhi himself, or perhaps the danger that Chu Shuzhi will have to go into. Maybe both XD
*cries forever and ever and ever* - I’ll just cry with you. So much my heart. So much.
Ahhh, I missed that. OH BABY!! <3 <3 <3 - I will not say how many times I have watched this particular scene to spot it, but yes! XD
I wonder if he can mould the victim's projection? Like, the victim generates the dream, and the Nightmare Master shapes it the way he wants, and sometimes steps into a role. - OH, yes, that’s an interesting thought, yes! I like that, that it’s kind of like on autopilot until he steps into the role and tries to direct things. I love this HC!
Thank you for the explanations of the childhood flashbacks -- I get so confused about which twin is which!! - So confusing XD LOL.
I'm unsure about that, too. He wakes up in the SID, and he's sitting at his desk. Zhao Yunlan doesn't seem surprised to see him there, and speaks as if Chu Shuzhi has just been reporting back, but why would Chu Shuzhi be sitting at his desk for that? It's weird! - It is definitely weird! But we can definitely hand wave it to Nightmare Master antics XD XD
I think it was a "that's all I'm going to tell you" look. I think the Regent doesn't want to get on Ye Zun's bad side, so he's prevaricating like the weasel he is. - He is such a weasel, yes XD
I can't decide between the confrontation with ZYL in the park in ep 20, with the villain monologuing, and when he invades the SID in ep 34. But there might be others I don't remember, too. - I do love episode 20 :D YES. And 34 as well :D I’m right there with you!
I'm super confused, too. I hope someone will do a scene discussion post on this one day. In the meantime, I think the actual real version is what Chu Shuzhi tells unconscious(?) Changcheng in the SID lab, next episode. - I agree. I think Chu Shuzhi is telling the truth when Guo Changcheng is unconscious!! But it is so so so confusing. XD XD XD
THANK YOU so much for taking the time out to read my lengthy post and commenting such lovely things! I know you added a second comment which I will definitely respond to tomorrow when RL isn’t chomping on me so intensely!
THANK YOU!! :heartheart: