This episode is full of people sneaking around, deceiving each other, hiding things
Ooh, yes, great list! I'd add in Lin Jing at the DoS, too: he's there in his role for the SID but (I think) also aware of his own divided loyalties, though we the audience don't know that yet.
And yeah, the sacrifice is so present. Especially after Dr Feng's sacrifice to reverse his stolen energy in the previous episode, too. This show really does love having people nobly put their lives on the line for others.
This is apparently not known in Dixing! An Bai seems to learn it from the old Dijun, and then explains to his friends. (You'd think they'd at least know how long the guy has been in office, but An Bai seems surprised when the Dijun says he's no grandpa, it's only been a few years!)
Well, it doesn't seem to be a particularly public ceremony (unlike the threatened execution!), so maybe it all happens behind the scenes and no one bothers to keep up? It's not like it makes much difference who's "in power" when the Regent is running things.
His power is also significant - the Regent talks about qualifications for Dijun (noble birth, political integrity and ability), but the Dijun is able to easily override these.
I wonder how limited the scope of his power is. If he'd wanted to override An Bai & co's death sentence, could he have? Or does he only really get to have a say re his successor?
(I'm always intrigued by the implication that there's a Dixing nobility. How different are their lives from the ordinary person on the street, I wonder? And where were they during the showdown in eps 39/40?)
On discord, shadaras suggested that the rapid ageing is because the palace should be running on solar/Hallows power, and instead pulls from the Dijun in the absence of that
Ooh, yes, that makes sense to me, too! Cool (and very creepy)! That also offers hope for An Bai post-canon. \o/
I find it so fascinating that throughout this episode, Shen Wei is walking around in Dixing in Professor Shen civvies, glasses and all! Even though he's being the Envoy. He only takes off the glasses when they're back in Haixing, at home in Zhao Yunlan's flat.
I wonder if there's some silent protest against these Dixing traditions/workings in that (though of course, he didn't know beforehand what was going on, so more on a thematic level than a conscious character level)?
but Zhao Yunlan holds him back and steps in himself, thereby saving him from having to expend the Envoy's political capital on rescuing a Haixing associate. Shen Wei lets him take point, and Zhao Yunlan gets Da Qing out of it by chiding him for being such a cat. ♥ ♥ ♥
And the Deacon (sorry, it's just easier) (and now I'm tempted to go back to calling the Regent the Justiciar, too ;-p) immediately sees right through it and extends a warning to ZYL not to push his luck. He's a very good villain -- astute and ruthless. ;-p
I also love that An Bai calls him Dijun-yeye! :D
That's Grandfather Dijun, right? (I think it's interesting that after the ceremony, ZYL calls out to An Bai by name and not by title. I guess it's hard to take him very seriously as head of state when their first meeting was that farce on the streets and the three of them chasing ZYL all over the place like Wile E Coyote and Road Runner.)
The scene in the bedroom is one of my favourites
It's so good!!! I always love their friendship: the comfort, and the ease of their communication is such a great contrast with the relationship between Zhao Yunlan and Shen Wei, whose values and goals are aligned but for whom there are so many undercurrents of attraction and so many unresolved questions. (The pinky promise is also a super-adorable scene, though! And the "You're worth it / This life is what I'm returning to you"! Why do I have to choose? ;-p)
Hilariously, Shen Wei (unmasked, but after all famous for his mask) taunts the Attendant for hiding behind a mask! :D
Haha, yeah. Otoh, at least in Dixing, Shen Wei wears his mask and robes to reveal his identity, whereas the Deacon is very obviously hiding his here. ;-p
Another lovely little scene: Zhao Yunlan and Da Qing lounging on some random stairs in the middle of the Dixing palace, Shen Wei standing next to them
And palace guards dutifully lighting candles. :D (I just rewatched the opening shot of that scene a few times -- some lovely swoopy camerawork, and I never noticed there's lightning in the sky outside. I guess they do have weather after all? /really random observations)
I just realised there's a shot where they're so close, you can see Zhao Yunlan's eye through the glass of Shen Wei's glasses!
<3 <3 <3 <3 <3
We never discover what exactly he whispers
He has that sharply assessing expression when the Deacon is accusing An Bai -- I think he suspects him and is whispering his theory that this is all a setup.
and presumably neither of them thought An Bai was actually the murderer.
Well, he did have motive, sort of, and he was pretty disreputable when they first met him. But yeah, they both know there's something fishy going on, and the Deacon is clearly cruising for a bruising. I think the plan to disguise ZYL is probably devised later, though? It would require more back and forth.
Shen Wei refuses the option to capture and torture An Bai's friends into confessing, the Attendant accuses him of being soft
That is such a !!!!! moment, to me. Like, wow, do you know who you're talking to? And how much of yourself you're revealing with that accusation?
The public execution with people standing around impassively to watch is so disturbing. None of the spectators seem emotionally engaged at all. Interesting that it's the Deacon overseeing it, not the Regent, and that Shen Wei has enough authority to call a halt even though it's not (presumably) his jurisdiction.
The way not!An Bai picks up the brush is so ZYL -- I love it!! :D (I didn't realise about the wig. LOL! I wish we'd got to see them visit the wigmaker's shop/theatre department costume room.)
giving his best "Guo Changcheng in episodes 1 and 2" impression.
LOL, yes!! :D
There's a fascinating little moment when Shen Wei vanishes his dao and turns around to Zhao Yunlan in seeming shock. Is this the first time Zhao Yunlan is using his gun so easily?
I noticed that, too. I was wondering if it was Zhao Yunlan intervening before Shen Wei could deal a fatal blow, sort of like he did with Ya Qing during the blindness arc? (Because they're still not 100% on the same page about punishments like this, as immediately demonstrated by Zhao Yunlan making excuses for the Deacon's actions.[1]) And also wondering if Shen Wei's reaction was because he had a moment of "Kunlun fighting at my side" feels right then? I wish we'd got to see his face.
[1] I wonder if he's even more willing than usual to give the Deacon the benefit of the doubt because of Dr Feng, who initially seemed to be an antagonist but then was willing to step up.
The Attendant immediately does as demanded, and uses his power on himself. I wonder how much free will he actually had.
My impression was not much at all. (But I actually misread that scene the first time and thought Ye Zun had smote him. I had to rewatch to see he did it himself. So I might be misreading because of that.)
Later, back in Haixing, in Zhao Yunlan's office, Shen Wei will say he didn't expect the truth would be worse than the rumours. I'm not sure he knew the full extent of it either.
I was wondering if that was more about the coercion? Like, if he knew how the Dijun-ship works, but maybe among noble families there's always been some honour in it, or status/payoff for the rest of the new Dijun's family so people do it semi-willingly. Shen Wei could have understood that choice, I think? But seeing the Regent blatantly forcing this powerless kid into it with a misuse of exaggerated charges really emphasises how rotten the whole system is.
(Interesting that the Regent didn't use the old Dijun's death as an excuse to find another candidate. I think that speaks to him being more letter-of-the-law-abiding than we sometimes give him credit for.)
Zhao Yunlan is not happy, but the Regent says it's been like that for thousands of years. It can't be changed. - And this is when Shen Wei turns around and abruptly walks out
I think it must make it even worse for Shen Wei to see Zhao Yunlan's reaction to this. Shen Wei is one of the leaders of Dixing, and to have Zhao Yunlan see its ugliness must feel awful and really pull that ugliness and his own unwilling complicity into sharp focus.
(Is it too much of a stretch to liken An Bai to the light energy in Shen Wei: forced into position and put to use?)
I'm convinced that the Regent's complacent "it can't be changed" is the moment when Shen Wei decides that no matter the cost, things definitely have to change. He was already willing to sacrifice himself if needed to stop Ye Zun (as he says in their conversation at the Pillar); here, everything suddenly becomes even more urgent. I think that's part of what drives him with the energy exchange, too.
Oh, that's such an interesting thought! I like it, but I'm not sure about conflating constitutional reform with stopping Ye Zun. Does the latter automatically lead to the former? Surely if Shen Wei dies, that also means he won't be around to advocate for better politics?
Do people in Dixing know so little about conditions on the surface?
How would they know? I expect there are some rumours from people who've come back, but probably also official efforts to quash those rumours (a Great Firewall? ;-p), because if everyone knew the wealth Upstairs, that could cause big domestic problems, couldn't it?
Zhao Yunlan first appears to be in a reasonably good mood, humming a little and taking a lollipop from the jar
Huh, I can't hear any humming, and I thought he was actually pretty serious while taking out the lollipop. He's not making light of the situation, imo, just busying himself (and maybe processing what happened?).
Some time in between, it seems like Shen Wei has made up his mind and decided on a course of action - on a contingency plan for defeating Ye Zun.
Oh, yes, that makes so much sense. I think you're right.
Honestly, I have no idea why he's seeing this barrier, and whether it's actually there, or why it would be there if it's real.
What if it's not a barrier, but an aura/cloud of dark energy that's filling the whole kitchen? I think it might be a sign that something is wrong with Shen Wei's dark energy, that it's pushing out too far, too full, disrupted by the light energy? And Zhao Yunlan is just really confused that he can see it. He's not sure if something's wrong with Shen Wei or whether the exchange with the Dial has changed his own eyes so he can see things that used to be invisible to him, I think? (And that latter suspicion would explain his not mentioning it to Shen Wei, because he doesn't want to worry him, and they're both hypocrites. ;-p)
Zhao Yunlan wakes up and starts playing with his phone.
I thought he was just checking the time, but he does take a moment. Some reflexive email checking, maybe? *g*
Which seems to imply to me that while Shen Wei is in the habit of spending the night, they probably don't share the bed yet.
Not unless Shen Wei doesn't use a pillow, yeah. That's a shame. (*attributes it to censorship* ;-p)
And that what really shakes Zhao Yunlan up and makes him shout at Shen Wei is not the cutting itself, not Shen Wei's horrible smile when he says he's "fortunately" used to being hurt, but it's Shen Wei saying, without a second's hesitation, that Zhao Yunlan is worth it. Zhao Yunlan really can't cope with that. ♥ ♥ ♥
Yeah, in my comment on that scene post, I say, "from Zhao Yunlan's POV, Shen Wei isn't expendable, and Zhao Yunlan very much is. [...] So his "I'm not worth it" is, like, his deepest truth. And when Shen Wei contradicts it, Zhao Yunlan has a kind of cascading system failure, because Shen Wei is so sure and so obviously wrong. So I think Zhao Yunlan's outburst is actually "I'm not worth it" all over again, but he can't just repeat himself, so he's lashing out with it this time. "I'm not worth it. Why the hell would you go to these lengths for me? You treat me like I'm precious, but YOU WON'T TELL ME ANYTHING or let us handle things like partners!" And it's couched in transactional terms to kind of push Shen Wei away, because it hurts too much to hear, and the consequences of Shen Wei's being wrong about this are too horrifying.
(And then the cold anger later on is a deliberate punishment/pushing away, both of that statement and of Shen Wei who will let himself get injured for him as if it's nothing and smile about it, just no.)"
But I also really love what mumblemumble says there: So anyway, to me they were already at a point where things might conceivably be confessed, but Shen Wei keeps holding *back* and having *secrets* and not letting get Yunlan close even when he clearly *wants* to. So when Shen Wei tells him "I love you" (with his voice and his face and his utter conviction), to me his outburst read as "THEN LET ME LOVE YOU YOU ASSHOLE. YOU CAN'T JUST SAY SHIT LIKE THAT AND NOT LET ME IN."
One of my favourite lines: "This life is what I'm returning to you," a delightful time-loopy circle
Yesss! And it's such a risky thing to say, from Shen Wei's pov -- it reveals too much. But he can't not. <3 <3 <3 <3 <3
And at the hospital, Zhao Yunlan turns to passive-aggressive over-politeness
He did that at the Envoy at the end of ep 4, too, I think.
(Omg, this is already so long. /o\ I'll post this and then come back to look at the discussion starters and add my own notes.)
no subject
This episode is full of people sneaking around, deceiving each other, hiding things
Ooh, yes, great list! I'd add in Lin Jing at the DoS, too: he's there in his role for the SID but (I think) also aware of his own divided loyalties, though we the audience don't know that yet.
And yeah, the sacrifice is so present. Especially after Dr Feng's sacrifice to reverse his stolen energy in the previous episode, too. This show really does love having people nobly put their lives on the line for others.
This is apparently not known in Dixing! An Bai seems to learn it from the old Dijun, and then explains to his friends. (You'd think they'd at least know how long the guy has been in office, but An Bai seems surprised when the Dijun says he's no grandpa, it's only been a few years!)
Well, it doesn't seem to be a particularly public ceremony (unlike the threatened execution!), so maybe it all happens behind the scenes and no one bothers to keep up? It's not like it makes much difference who's "in power" when the Regent is running things.
His power is also significant - the Regent talks about qualifications for Dijun (noble birth, political integrity and ability), but the Dijun is able to easily override these.
I wonder how limited the scope of his power is. If he'd wanted to override An Bai & co's death sentence, could he have? Or does he only really get to have a say re his successor?
(I'm always intrigued by the implication that there's a Dixing nobility. How different are their lives from the ordinary person on the street, I wonder? And where were they during the showdown in eps 39/40?)
On discord,
Ooh, yes, that makes sense to me, too! Cool (and very creepy)! That also offers hope for An Bai post-canon. \o/
I find it so fascinating that throughout this episode, Shen Wei is walking around in Dixing in Professor Shen civvies, glasses and all! Even though he's being the Envoy. He only takes off the glasses when they're back in Haixing, at home in Zhao Yunlan's flat.
I wonder if there's some silent protest against these Dixing traditions/workings in that (though of course, he didn't know beforehand what was going on, so more on a thematic level than a conscious character level)?
but Zhao Yunlan holds him back and steps in himself, thereby saving him from having to expend the Envoy's political capital on rescuing a Haixing associate. Shen Wei lets him take point, and Zhao Yunlan gets Da Qing out of it by chiding him for being such a cat. ♥ ♥ ♥
And the Deacon (sorry, it's just easier) (and now I'm tempted to go back to calling the Regent the Justiciar, too ;-p) immediately sees right through it and extends a warning to ZYL not to push his luck. He's a very good villain -- astute and ruthless. ;-p
I also love that An Bai calls him Dijun-yeye! :D
That's Grandfather Dijun, right? (I think it's interesting that after the ceremony, ZYL calls out to An Bai by name and not by title. I guess it's hard to take him very seriously as head of state when their first meeting was that farce on the streets and the three of them chasing ZYL all over the place like Wile E Coyote and Road Runner.)
The scene in the bedroom is one of my favourites
It's so good!!! I always love their friendship: the comfort, and the ease of their communication is such a great contrast with the relationship between Zhao Yunlan and Shen Wei, whose values and goals are aligned but for whom there are so many undercurrents of attraction and so many unresolved questions. (The pinky promise is also a super-adorable scene, though! And the "You're worth it / This life is what I'm returning to you"! Why do I have to choose? ;-p)
Hilariously, Shen Wei (unmasked, but after all famous for his mask) taunts the Attendant for hiding behind a mask! :D
Haha, yeah. Otoh, at least in Dixing, Shen Wei wears his mask and robes to reveal his identity, whereas the Deacon is very obviously hiding his here. ;-p
Another lovely little scene: Zhao Yunlan and Da Qing lounging on some random stairs in the middle of the Dixing palace, Shen Wei standing next to them
And palace guards dutifully lighting candles. :D (I just rewatched the opening shot of that scene a few times -- some lovely swoopy camerawork, and I never noticed there's lightning in the sky outside. I guess they do have weather after all? /really random observations)
I just realised there's a shot where they're so close, you can see Zhao Yunlan's eye through the glass of Shen Wei's glasses!
<3 <3 <3 <3 <3
We never discover what exactly he whispers
He has that sharply assessing expression when the Deacon is accusing An Bai -- I think he suspects him and is whispering his theory that this is all a setup.
and presumably neither of them thought An Bai was actually the murderer.
Well, he did have motive, sort of, and he was pretty disreputable when they first met him. But yeah, they both know there's something fishy going on, and the Deacon is clearly cruising for a bruising. I think the plan to disguise ZYL is probably devised later, though? It would require more back and forth.
Shen Wei refuses the option to capture and torture An Bai's friends into confessing, the Attendant accuses him of being soft
That is such a !!!!! moment, to me. Like, wow, do you know who you're talking to? And how much of yourself you're revealing with that accusation?
The public execution with people standing around impassively to watch is so disturbing. None of the spectators seem emotionally engaged at all. Interesting that it's the Deacon overseeing it, not the Regent, and that Shen Wei has enough authority to call a halt even though it's not (presumably) his jurisdiction.
The way not!An Bai picks up the brush is so ZYL -- I love it!! :D (I didn't realise about the wig. LOL! I wish we'd got to see them visit the wigmaker's shop/theatre department costume room.)
giving his best "Guo Changcheng in episodes 1 and 2" impression.
LOL, yes!! :D
There's a fascinating little moment when Shen Wei vanishes his dao and turns around to Zhao Yunlan in seeming shock. Is this the first time Zhao Yunlan is using his gun so easily?
I noticed that, too. I was wondering if it was Zhao Yunlan intervening before Shen Wei could deal a fatal blow, sort of like he did with Ya Qing during the blindness arc? (Because they're still not 100% on the same page about punishments like this, as immediately demonstrated by Zhao Yunlan making excuses for the Deacon's actions.[1]) And also wondering if Shen Wei's reaction was because he had a moment of "Kunlun fighting at my side" feels right then? I wish we'd got to see his face.
[1] I wonder if he's even more willing than usual to give the Deacon the benefit of the doubt because of Dr Feng, who initially seemed to be an antagonist but then was willing to step up.
The Attendant immediately does as demanded, and uses his power on himself. I wonder how much free will he actually had.
My impression was not much at all. (But I actually misread that scene the first time and thought Ye Zun had smote him. I had to rewatch to see he did it himself. So I might be misreading because of that.)
Later, back in Haixing, in Zhao Yunlan's office, Shen Wei will say he didn't expect the truth would be worse than the rumours. I'm not sure he knew the full extent of it either.
I was wondering if that was more about the coercion? Like, if he knew how the Dijun-ship works, but maybe among noble families there's always been some honour in it, or status/payoff for the rest of the new Dijun's family so people do it semi-willingly. Shen Wei could have understood that choice, I think? But seeing the Regent blatantly forcing this powerless kid into it with a misuse of exaggerated charges really emphasises how rotten the whole system is.
(Interesting that the Regent didn't use the old Dijun's death as an excuse to find another candidate. I think that speaks to him being more letter-of-the-law-abiding than we sometimes give him credit for.)
Zhao Yunlan is not happy, but the Regent says it's been like that for thousands of years. It can't be changed. - And this is when Shen Wei turns around and abruptly walks out
I think it must make it even worse for Shen Wei to see Zhao Yunlan's reaction to this. Shen Wei is one of the leaders of Dixing, and to have Zhao Yunlan see its ugliness must feel awful and really pull that ugliness and his own unwilling complicity into sharp focus.
(Is it too much of a stretch to liken An Bai to the light energy in Shen Wei: forced into position and put to use?)
I'm convinced that the Regent's complacent "it can't be changed" is the moment when Shen Wei decides that no matter the cost, things definitely have to change. He was already willing to sacrifice himself if needed to stop Ye Zun (as he says in their conversation at the Pillar); here, everything suddenly becomes even more urgent. I think that's part of what drives him with the energy exchange, too.
Oh, that's such an interesting thought! I like it, but I'm not sure about conflating constitutional reform with stopping Ye Zun. Does the latter automatically lead to the former? Surely if Shen Wei dies, that also means he won't be around to advocate for better politics?
Do people in Dixing know so little about conditions on the surface?
How would they know? I expect there are some rumours from people who've come back, but probably also official efforts to quash those rumours (a Great Firewall? ;-p), because if everyone knew the wealth Upstairs, that could cause big domestic problems, couldn't it?
Zhao Yunlan first appears to be in a reasonably good mood, humming a little and taking a lollipop from the jar
Huh, I can't hear any humming, and I thought he was actually pretty serious while taking out the lollipop. He's not making light of the situation, imo, just busying himself (and maybe processing what happened?).
Some time in between, it seems like Shen Wei has made up his mind and decided on a course of action - on a contingency plan for defeating Ye Zun.
Oh, yes, that makes so much sense. I think you're right.
Honestly, I have no idea why he's seeing this barrier, and whether it's actually there, or why it would be there if it's real.
What if it's not a barrier, but an aura/cloud of dark energy that's filling the whole kitchen? I think it might be a sign that something is wrong with Shen Wei's dark energy, that it's pushing out too far, too full, disrupted by the light energy? And Zhao Yunlan is just really confused that he can see it. He's not sure if something's wrong with Shen Wei or whether the exchange with the Dial has changed his own eyes so he can see things that used to be invisible to him, I think? (And that latter suspicion would explain his not mentioning it to Shen Wei, because he doesn't want to worry him, and they're both hypocrites. ;-p)
Zhao Yunlan wakes up and starts playing with his phone.
I thought he was just checking the time, but he does take a moment. Some reflexive email checking, maybe? *g*
Which seems to imply to me that while Shen Wei is in the habit of spending the night, they probably don't share the bed yet.
Not unless Shen Wei doesn't use a pillow, yeah. That's a shame. (*attributes it to censorship* ;-p)
And that what really shakes Zhao Yunlan up and makes him shout at Shen Wei is not the cutting itself, not Shen Wei's horrible smile when he says he's "fortunately" used to being hurt, but it's Shen Wei saying, without a second's hesitation, that Zhao Yunlan is worth it. Zhao Yunlan really can't cope with that. ♥ ♥ ♥
Yeah, in my comment on that scene post, I say, "from Zhao Yunlan's POV, Shen Wei isn't expendable, and Zhao Yunlan very much is. [...] So his "I'm not worth it" is, like, his deepest truth. And when Shen Wei contradicts it, Zhao Yunlan has a kind of cascading system failure, because Shen Wei is so sure and so obviously wrong. So I think Zhao Yunlan's outburst is actually "I'm not worth it" all over again, but he can't just repeat himself, so he's lashing out with it this time. "I'm not worth it. Why the hell would you go to these lengths for me? You treat me like I'm precious, but YOU WON'T TELL ME ANYTHING or let us handle things like partners!" And it's couched in transactional terms to kind of push Shen Wei away, because it hurts too much to hear, and the consequences of Shen Wei's being wrong about this are too horrifying.
(And then the cold anger later on is a deliberate punishment/pushing away, both of that statement and of Shen Wei who will let himself get injured for him as if it's nothing and smile about it, just no.)"
But I also really love what
One of my favourite lines: "This life is what I'm returning to you," a delightful time-loopy circle
Yesss! And it's such a risky thing to say, from Shen Wei's pov -- it reveals too much. But he can't not. <3 <3 <3 <3 <3
And at the hospital, Zhao Yunlan turns to passive-aggressive over-politeness
He did that at the Envoy at the end of ep 4, too, I think.
(Omg, this is already so long. /o\ I'll post this and then come back to look at the discussion starters and add my own notes.)